TRPG General Chat - 2019-05-21 (page 2 of 2)

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11:22 AM

I'm gonna see that sometime this week or next. I'm looking forward to it.

It keeps the standard :)

mm

I'm gonna get to watching it eventually, but I have to admit I felt John Wick 2 wasn't as good as the first

the stupid bullet-absorbing magic suit jacket still annoys me.

He doesn't have that on this one

His kingpin suit

that's an improvement

the overall problem being that JW felt rather more gritty and grounded, and JW2 kind of got a bit... fantastical

Did you see the poster designs for John Wick 3?

11:35 AM

And I think the "doing things for himself" vs "doing things for others" was a comparison too, maybe?

whoops almost swore a lot for a moment there

that didn't bother me so much, I'd happily watch JW doing contracted hits forever

@Carcer thank you for withholding :)

but to get back to the topic of my swearing

the subway scene

with the shooting suppressed guns at each other and nobody ever notices

In 2 or 3?

in 2.

I've not seen 3.

everything that happens in JW felt physically plausible and realistic, but JW2 took some rather more egregious departures from reality, and that's basically what annoys me about it.

11:38 AM

I feel they bring that back a little in 3. "Nothing's that tough"

sounds like I might like it a bit more than 2 then. I still enjoyed watching 2, even if it occasionally exasperated me

Except maybe, the baba yaga

user image

And it's a good thing they picked KR for this role. I don't think anyone else could really take that kind of beating.

Not for the likes of mortal men

@Ben lol!

It is beautiful isn't it haha

It is

11:53 AM

@doppelgreener them's some rad posters

@Carcer they are!!

I do feel like the capture poster #2 really well

12:28 PM

John Wick 4: John tries photography and someone steals his camera and breaks it. He hunts the person down to the ends of the earth. Nobody dies, he finds the thief halfway through the movie, has a long conversation with them about their financial and emotional hardships and then uses some of his fortune to put them through college and is there for graduation and to recommend them for a job

They do well and he starts doing this for other people too, the end

Would watch

They specialise in dog photography

I mean, if my recollection is correct, Wick doesn't actually go after the mob in the first film until they actively try to kill him

my recollection is slightly dubious actually

12:45 PM

You're right

it is strongly implied by the phone call between Wick/Viggo that John is going to exact some vengeance before they send the guys to actually try and kill him

still, I think it was a proportionate response to dog murder.

1:00 PM

@Ben I thought that was a scene from a movie he was in.

"Generation Um"

Oh hey it is

as a rule, any picture of a celebrity accompanied by an explanation of what they're doing in the photo is 95% likely to be total bulldroppings

It's nice to dream

1:48 PM

My girlfriend has been completely avoidant of my nerdier hobbies, but my brothers and I convinced her to play the Munchkin card game yesterday, so there is hope! xD

(not that I would mind if she didn't also enjoy said hobbies, but she very much enjoyed Munchkin, even wanting to play more when my brothers had grown bored)

2:05 PM

@DavidCoffron nice!

2:38 PM

@DavidCoffron Munchkin is a very nice gateway game, it got me into the tabletop game hobby!

Though it is sadly a pretty poor game overall :(

(at least for me)

@DavidCoffron how many c lass features are there that grant flight? Should that question be focused on only one of them perhaps?

Munchkin is not a very good game for gameplay, no

it really only has appeal as reference humour for RPG tropes

yeah, the endgame for that game is just an awful slog.

3:01 PM

@Rubiksmoose Probably, there are at least 6 or 7

@DavidCoffron oh wow, that is surprising.

(fwiw I sent that before I saw your answer, which I think answers the question as well as it can in its broad state)

@Rubiksmoose The version we play is Munchkin Cthulu and the end game for me is incessantly enjoyable.

@DavidCoffron it's possible that they have tweaked it since I played it.

By that point many players have a wide range of cards that stop others from levelling up, so it becomes very tactical at when you play them at the level 7-10 range

My group tends to get into a samey experience with Munchkin: People level at an approximately even rate. Eventually everyone is level 8 or 9, then someone at level 9 will have their ultimate battle. People add cards to oppose them because not doing so means losing. They add cards to respond because not doing so means losing. The resulting arms race puts everyone all-in, then the person loses the fight. Then the next person in turn order wins because nobody can make the opposition strong enough.

3:03 PM

@doppelgreener ^ and the result is an underwhelming, "well... I guess you/I won?"

@Rubiksmoose Yeah. And we all know it's going to happen, but the game puts us into a state where everything is already decided for us.

@doppelgreener That's how my games went for a while, but then my family realized it was better to sliow people down earlier (playing some of their cards to stop people from reaching level 5-7). This was used to hedge against people saving up items to sell to level (or the gain a level cards) and then Looking for Trouble on a 2-level opponent. Once we realized that every level matters, it became a game much more about resource-usage and opportunity cost (almost poker-esque)

@doppelgreener or alternatively, where people can play Kingmaker. Having a stopper card and being able to single-handedly say "I decide that [person] wins".

So, if it only cost you a +3 to monster to prevent 3 treasure, you would play that early

@DavidCoffron Thanks, I'll bear that in mind for whenever I play it next.

3:05 PM

But if it would cost a +10, you save that for the level 5-7 range

@Rubiksmoose We haven't reached that state yet, but we have had "I'll help you because I can't win and I want the game to end" once.

@doppelgreener Ooph. My family is very play-to-win and I haven't experienced that.

Actually I think they were a level 9 elf and they realised they would also win that way. (Maybe both happened on separate occasions?)

@doppelgreener Yeah I think we only had it happen a couple of times. It generally just doens't feel good for the person choosing, the chosen winner, or really anybody else at the table so I think that the experience is enough to stop it from happening.

@doppelgreener oh yeah and we have that happen a decent amount.

Last game was very neck and neck (everyone level 7 and with large hands), and the balance between keeping people from level 8-9 using minimal cards in case someone that the treasure to jump to 9 was very fun.

3:09 PM

The one card I feel like I ought to tear up is the thief card, because the moment they hit level 1, they just steal everyone's stuff.

The only problem I have with Munchkin Cthlulu is the cultist mechanic, because there is no way to become a cultist unless a cultist card is randomly discarded (which is very rare, and only happens on Bad Stuff), since you can't voluntarily discard the cultist card and effects that say "Become a Cultist" only work if a cultist has been discarded. Also, no one wants to willingly become a cultist because the benefit isn't very helpful, and the last person to not join the cult gains a free level

Then they can just join the cult to win (as once everyone is a cultist the game ends with the highest level player winning)

Munchkin is very much one of those games where if you do too well, you will get dunked on by everyone else and the real winner is whoever comes up on top after that

Cuba Libre, which I've been hoping to find players for, is quite similar. The joys of n players, one winner and ample options for intermediary collaboration

3:29 PM

@kviiri I don't see that as a design flaw, but a challenge to overcome. It takes a different type of strategy to ride in the background, and then shoot into the lead. It kind of reminds me of Rummy in a way. You don't necessarily want to lay out all of your resources immediately, but you don't want to wait too long or you might lose before you have the chance

3:59 PM

@DavidCoffron Yeah, I agree

Hot RPG Questions

4:19 PM

7

Q: Is using the same theme over and over again a sign of being too attached to a concept?

I have been playing in several roleplay groups taking place in different systems. I have noticed that while the personality of my character can vary to a degree, I always end up playing with a nature theme: loving trees, helping plants grow, using earth and plant magic, and so on. Is this a sign...

You know, I think they may have made that modification to HNQ that put in a several hour delay between when a question is posted and when is it allowed to go hot.

@DavidCoffron Alas. It's important for games to create meaningful choices for us, because those are how we find agency, and agency is one of the critical factors that make something a game in the first place. It's a problem when games put us in situations where we're offered a choice but there's only one correct option: that's not a meaningful choice at all.

4:49 PM

Hey folks. Are you able to nominate yourselves at the election right now? I don't know if that's something available yet, and if it is, I need to start poking people to nominate themselves.

@doppelgreener It says "The election has not started yet."

Thanks.

Ok, phew.

It also says "nomination period begins

in 6 days"

"Nomination begins in 6 days" according to the sidebar.

Thank goodness :P

4:51 PM

According to the meta post "Until the nomination phase, (so, until May 27th at 20:00:00Z UTC, or 4:00 pm EDT on the same day, give or take time to arrive for closure)"

All seems well

Speaking of which, I just posted a question (err answer) to the Mod Q&A thread and I would appreciate any feedback on it.

Now I'm just trying to think of who I would want to vote for. A couple names jump out at me, but idk if they be running. Aah! panic!

@DavidCoffron I'm very eager to see who's going to throw their hat in!

I don't want that kind of responsibility in my life anymore

though I guess RPG.se would be very mild compared to my previous moderating history

oh yeah? what have you moderated in the past (if you don't mind answering of course)?

4:57 PM

derpibooru would be the real big one

I honestly have no idea how bad it gets here, since the mods do a good job of keeping a clean house (and the community at large here does a great job as well)

I am technically still an admin there but I burned out on actually trying to administrate it years ago

@Carcer is that a traditional forum-type place?

derpibooru is an imageboard for My Little Pony. It does also have a more trad forum section

ah very nice.

4:59 PM

no it's not

I can see how things could have the potential to get very out of hand there

@Carcer well I was just commenting on the site idea lol

@Carcer I'll bet you have some horror (horser?) stories lol

the good ol' "does this cartoon horse look like they're old enough to consent to the depicted activity" game takes a toll on you after a while

@Carcer yeah...that was indeed along the lines of what first lept to my mind :-/

And I'll bet it did. You still seem sane though! So you made it out alive at least. :)

sane enough

anyway, as regards other experience, via dubious decisionmaking in my youth I was briefly an admin for the original wikichan, before it became the well-groomed anonymous, after which I set up 1d4chan, which I've also long since really burnt on paying much attention to and trying to keep a sensible lid on but continue to host out of a misguided sense of obligation

I kind of really wish I wasn't, anymore, but it still gets a lot of users and it feels very mean to just take it away

@Carcer oh dear. Now I'm really impressed at your mental constitution.

5:06 PM

mm. Since project wonderful stopped operating I can't even run adverts on it anymore, which was how I used to justify it to myself

I saw... I think it was mxyzplk describe it as a "hive of scum and villainy" in a discussion somewhere about linking to disreputable sites, which amused me enough that I put that in my bio

whoop, it's hometime

Well have a good hometime! And don't let the bad internets wear you down too much :)

@Carcer I would never want such a responsibility. I use forums and other social sites as leisure and wouldn't want to possibly soil that with additional responsibilities. Even here, when I started getting community moderation privileges it took some time for me to get used to using them without taking the enjoyment out of the site.

(not that I think I'm remotely qualified for moderator on any site, let alone here where I am a 5e-only user)

@DavidCoffron You know you better but I think you should give yourself more credit :) Also, I don't think being primarily experienced with one system is a huge knock against moderators. From my understanding, when a mod takes unilateral action, it is only in the really obvious cases which usually seems to have more to do with RPG.se knowledge and less RPG knowledge.

5:22 PM

@Rubiksmoose Thanks for the credit, but I'll leave the moderation to those with vested interest in a wider range of topics on the site (which would be my preference for a mod). In short, I wouldn't vote for me, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to xD

That logic seems sound to me :)

Possibly interesting reading related to the point of playing multiple games:

-3

A: 2017 Moderator Election Q&A - Question Collection

What minority tags do you frequent? How will your election contribute to diversity on the main site?

(the comments underneath specifically)

(they were interesting to me at least)

Purely out of curiosity, what badges influence the candidate-score in the elections?

13

Q: Is there a good way to view my candidate score?

I notice the election candidates all have "candidate scores". I don't want to be a moderator, but I do want to view my candidate score. Is there a way to view this without being a candidate? If I self-nominate, will there be a way to un-self-nominate after viewing my score?

support election

That second answer lays it all out.

5:38 PM

@Rubiksmoose Thanks

No problem!

Just venting, but my question about the Cypher System rulebook was closed as a duplicate of a question about the Numenera system.

Do the people voting to close not have basic reading comprehension?

@Arkhaic let's cool it a bit. Please don't insult people. Always Be Nice here and elsewhere on the site.

I'm being nice.

Though as long as you don't insult people we are happy to hear your venting.

5:42 PM

and I did not insult them, I asked if they possessed basic reading comprehension because they clearly did not exercise it.

"not have basic reading comprehension" is not nice.

Not exercising basic reading comprehension is not nice.

@Arkhaic From a reading of the tag descriptions, one who is not perfectly versed may not be able to tell the difference between the two: numenera and cypher-system. It took me a few reads and a google search to realize they are separate rulesets entirely (and not just derivatives). This confusion is coupled by the fact that you have tagged both systems.

Not having basic reading comprehension is charitable.

They are derivatives, but a citation from Numenera doesn't apply to a question about the Cypher System

@Arkhaic I don't know if you noticed the sudden influx of network moderators enter the room; it's because users are flagging your characterization of other site users as rude. Please take a breath and listen to the feedback you're getting.

5:45 PM

@Arkhaic the appropriate way to solve your issue is to present your case for it not deserving a close. You should not insult the people who did vote to close (and yes implying they can't read is indeed an insult). As far as I can tell they did so with the best intentions.

(Hi @CharlieBrumbaugh, @Stephie--welcome to RPG chat!)

Either they cannot read OR they did not read. If the former is interpreted as an insult then there is no accurate characterization of their actions that is not an insult.

@Arkhaic That is something you have raised in a comment already. Since a Reopen vote has been registered, it will return to the review queue and will be reopened if it is deemed to not be a duplicate.

@Arkhaic If that's the case, you should probably remove the tag for Numenera. Your question appears to more pertinently be about the Cypher System, and the confusion would go away if it weren't tagged as both.

If action is not taken in a day or so (or if the action is versus what you expect), you should raise the issue in the meta site for feedback on why the question remains closed. However you ask for feedback should be done in a respectful way and in accordance to the site guidelines

5:48 PM

I am being respectful.

@Arkhaic Those are in fact not the only two options. For one, people can disagree with your assessment of things; your tactic here is aggressively assuming you are right instead of trying to understand what problems other people are seeing. And that is not a great way to get a resolution to your problem.

I've seen situations in the past where 5e questions were closed as duplicates of 3.5e questions because the person who asked the question (or someone deducing from the OP's comments) mistagged the question. Even for people who are masters of both systems, if stuff gets mistagged, it'll confuse them and cause them to take the wrong actions.

That's possible. I would argue that a careful reading of a question before flagging it should prevent that, however.

@Arkhaic It might; but again, if your question isn't answered by the Numenera question, then would you be alright if I (or you, or someone else) removed that tag before casting my vote to reopen?

^

5:55 PM

I guess? I'm still not sure that the tag is incorrect, but if the standard etiquette is to flag questions primarily based on tags it might prevent further confusion.

Removed it.

By mentioning numanera in your question and by tagging it as a numenera question, I think you need to accept that the fault is partially or even mostly on you.

@Arkhaic Tags have somewhat rigorous requirements on Stack Exchange. They're not merely "here's something which might be relevant", they're "this is the principal domain of my question".

Oh? That is not what the Tags page says.

@Arkhaic If you tag something with numanera, the expectation is that your question is, in some significant manner, about Numanera.

It was about an apparent contradiction between the Numenera ruleset and the derived Cypher System

Is that not significant enough?

5:58 PM

If numanera did not exist would it have any influence on your question or its answer?

Yes.

Your question is "Does X count as Y in this ruleset" - why would another game's ruleset matter

Cypher System is derived from Numenera, I was wondering whether I had missed the equivalent portion of the text that is present in Numenera, if the designers had changed their minds between the two systems, or if it was mistakenly left out.

@Arkhaic I would argue, speaking as a programmer that constantly has to correct people about the differences between C and C++, that this is not the case. Over on Stack Overflow, it's quite common for questions to get tagged with both, downvoted, and eventually their tags corrected because the person asking the question assumed, wrongly, that c and c++ are similar enough to justify the comparison. And like with your example, there is clear history of C++ being derived from C.

But fundamentally, the question is the same, if you ignore the existence of another ruleset, however similar

6:03 PM

I wouldn't have been asking the question if I hadn't spotted a difference between its ruleset and Numenera's.

That's motive - but it's a valid question without it

@Carcer tag bug-report on MSE, definitely.

@Arkhaic This.

Your question is still the same either way: "Is Predictive Equation an Asset?" is answerable without knowing anything about Numenera, or Cypher's relationship to it. It might very well be true that the designers made a conscious decision to change the rules when deriving the latter, or maybe it was an accident (note though that a question specifically about that justification is probably off topic due to being a "Designer Intent" question), but either way, you don't need to know the Numenera Rules to work out what the Cypher rules are.

@Arkhaic Perhaps not, but a more in depth statement on how tags are used can be found in the Help Center

@DavidCoffron that was the page I was referring to

Unless this bit applies?:
> If the tag can’t work as the only tag on a question, it’s probably a meta-tag

6:10 PM

> A tag is a word or phrase that describes the topic of the question. Tags are a means of connecting experts with questions they will be able to answer by sorting questions into specific, well-defined categories. — What are tags, and how should I use them?

@Arkhaic So, a tag is used to discuss "the topic" of the question. If your question is not about the numanera system, it is not part of the topic of the question

While everything they are saying is true, the problem is exacerbated because the extra tag was a system tag, which we hold even more meaning than a normal tag. Generally, when you put a system tag on a question you are saying, "I am asking about this system"

(unlike other tags, we allow system tags to stand alone and say this without being explicitly stated in the question itself)

Ah. Where is this information about system tags? Is it buried on a meta page or something?

To give another example: sometimes, when asking a 5e question, someone might reference 3.5e content. This is especially common if they're asking lore questions, like "Why are the Drow considered Matriarchial if their society is just a genderflipped Patriarchy, which is not the Academic meaning of a Matriarchy?", and they reference material from 3.5e that hasn't been adapted forwards into 5e. But, if they then tagged the question with both 3.5e and 5e, that would be wrong.

It's also a largely-emergent folksonomy, rather than a language description. Tags--including their level of meaning when included/excluded--mean different things to authors, readers, voters, moderators, &c.

2

6:13 PM

For that matter, do stackexchanges not have the ability to customize their own help centers?

@Arkhaic Somewhat, but much of the language is boilerplate.

Is there a particular section you're thinking of? I could check, but I don't have a good mental map of which are mutable off the top of my head.

I was thinking about tags here, since apparently we use some tags differently than the rest of SE.

@Arkhaic System tags aren't use any differently per se. They are just a type of tag where usually only one is topical for a question

@Arkhaic Do you mean like this page?

Yeah, like that page or the "How to tag" box that appears when asking a question

6:17 PM

Related: meta.stackexchange.com/q/279879/311001

@Arkhaic We definitely can't do anything to the popups ourselves. The /tagging page... I don't believe we can edit it, but I'm verifying that now.

Cool, thanks for the link

Looks like it might actually just be the landing page top-text (where it currently just says "Find out more about...") and the on-topic page which we can edit.

Anything else would go through the "regular order": propose something on meta, get significant support from the community, we point it toward SE staff, and wait 6-8 weeks.

@Xirema Is that an actual question that's been asked? I was unaware that a matriarchy has a different definition

I gotta run for the rest of the day. Be well, all!

Thanks everyone, sorry for coming in so angry.

6:26 PM

@DavidCoffron No—I'm also quite certain that that hypothetical question would probably be off-topic for the stack. =P

@Arkhaic We all get angry sometimes. Just remember, we're here to help. Explaining things to us in a clam and respectful manner is always going to be the best way to get help here (not to mention the fact that it keeps you within the rules!). :)

@Arkhaic no worries. I've done the same thing even after having been here for quite some time. I commend you for being cognizant of it, and hope to see you around :)

@Xirema oh boy, maybe. Regardless of topicallity or not, I would expect a ... heated discussion to take place about it.

@DavidCoffron It's really easy to get steamed over your own questions especially I've found.

Now that it's settled down, though, questions do sometimes get closed or incorrectly marked as duplicates and a debate has to be had where people need to be politely corrected

@Rubiksmoose which in turn would make it end up on HNQ, possibly receive some answers that aren't fully backed up, and have to be Protected (if it weren't deemed off topic)

@Carcer duplicate tagging is definitely the most common form of false-closures in my experience

6:30 PM

@DavidCoffron But yes, in general: "Matriarchy" does not mean "Patriarchy, but with the genders flipped", at least not at an academic level. Colloquially, though, then yeah, those meanings are probably the same.

@DavidCoffron Almost certainly.

@Xirema that's the problem with academic definitions for things, they're often wildly divergent from common usage by laypeople

@Xirema maybe a topic for not-a-bar. I'll flip over there if anyone wants to help sate my curiosity

the term "racism" has the same problem

7:13 PM

Tfw you suggest bringing a conversation to another chat room to avoid preventing other conversations from breathing in the General Chat, and then General Chat stagnates xD

lol

7:25 PM

The player who wants to play an Alchemist Artificer in my next campaign is modelling their character after a drug dealer.

It'll be interesting to see how they interact with our Paladin.

@Xirema I had a player do that once (he was my brother)

7:57 PM

I had a player who was a drug addict.

They played as one, or were one?

8:14 PM

@KorvinStarmast Same brother did that once too (played a drug addict), it was a Blood Hunter (I wanted to try it out in a group, so I offered it to my brother to play) whose mutagens were various drugs.

8:58 PM

@williamporter was one. He ended up dropping out of college and went through some pretty hard things before he got out of that hole in life. He ended up OK, unlike my high school friend who OD'd on heroin in college. (Didn't see that one coming: none of us did)

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9:30 PM

Love receiving the daily spiteful down vote ...

@KorvinStarmast does someone have an "I h8 Korvin bot"?

answers that are just like "yes, you have read the rules you have fully quoted in your question correctly" are hard

what are you supposed to add to that to make it a worthwhile answer

9:47 PM

@Carcer Add a big "thumbs up" emoji

@Rubiksmoose Perhaps; that made me laugh. :) (I think that a bot would get caught though by the vote review tools ...)

@Carcer I am still not sure that I may have missed a dupe for that, as I was trying to dig through a bunch of proficiency questions. Didn't find a dupe.

I wouldn't worry too much

@Carcer Sometimes, I see a question and go "wait, didn't we ask that before" and not infrequently the answer is "well, no."

10:13 PM

How's Twitter one-boxing?

twitter.com/rdonoghue/status/1130878621348970496?s=09

nope

still a negatory on that

10:56 PM

Sims 4 is free on Origin: https://www.origin.com/usa/en-us/store/the-sims/the-sims-4/
But if you click through, you might only see the option to "purchase as a gift" on either the website or the app, with no option to get it yourself.
To get around this problem, you can add it to your wishlist, then go to your wishlist and claim it from there. :)

GRID 2 is free on Steam: https://store.steampowered.com/app/44350/GRID_2/

@Rubiksmoose they did :)

hey there @Fifth_H0r5eman, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)

@V2Blast convenient, I know a few people who'd be interested in free sims

11:15 PM

@Carcer glad to help them out, then :)

11:31 PM

@V2Blast nice! I wonder how that will change things.

11:47 PM

My Ghosts of Saltmarsh showed up in mail today. I'll check back in with you al when I come of for air. yay!

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