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7:07 AM
Hello everyone!
 
Good morning!
 
5 messages moved to Trash
 
JAD
ola
@Tinkeringbell I experienced Utrecht's rushhour for the first time yesterday
it was not fun
 
I can imagine that...
Why didn't you take a train?
 
JAD
we had a couple of home visits
with barely enough time in between, so we figured car would be easier
and it was, until it was time to go home
spent 1 hour 45 minutes on the 65km from Baarn to Gouda D:
 
7:10 AM
0.o
Well, I'm glad to hear you made it home at least ;)
 
@JAD :( that ain't nice
 
That reminds me, I should make some time and start calling around for that car today.
 
you're looking for a new car?
 
JAD
when we got to utrecht, according to the boards the entire east- and south ring were jammed. So we decided to take the north route
which ended up jammed too. And at the A2, it was just one big standstill
 
@avazula for a first car, actually ;)
 
A J
7:12 AM
Afeterndoon
 
JAD
so we ended up diverting through Vleuten and Leidsche Rijn. Wasn't much better ;(
 
@JAD I don't think there's any way to get past Utrecht without traffic during rush hour
 
@Tinkeringbell wooh :D good luck
 
@avazula Thanks :)
 
what are you looking for in a car?
 
7:13 AM
@avazula So far, I don't really know yet. I like the looks of a Renault Captur, but it might be too big :/ The only thing that I'm really sure about is that I need an automatic transmission.
 
A J
@avazula A steering wheel, four tyres, a fuel pump, an IC engine, seats. :P
 
why not a tiny smart
you can park anywhere
 
JAD
@Tinkeringbell probably hiking
 
@Tinkeringbell If I may recommend you a Renault Clio 4, their automatic transmission is great along with, well, everything else (IMO)
 
JAD
@AJ windshield
 
7:15 AM
@Magisch I'm going to try and lease a car, and as far as I know the company doesn't allow anything smaller than 5 doors ;)
 
A J
@JAD sure
 
JAD
@Tinkeringbell lolwhat
 
@JAD wipers, for when it's raining :P
 
Back when I was looking for a new car I did some research about that one (that's my mother's car actually) and even though I sticked with my old card because it stopped needing to go to the garage every other morning, I really like this one!
 
@JAD It has to be a 5-doors... I dunno why XD
 
JAD
7:15 AM
@Tinkeringbell just don't drive when it's raining
 
@avazula Perhaps, though I really like the Captur as well, it looks pretty :D
 
JAD
but that's a good point. Eliminating the windshield also removed the need for wipers
 
@Tinkeringbell I guess they have the same transmission model :D I suggested the Clio because it's smaller :)
and very manageable (I used to struggle a lot with parking, this one was easy to park)
 
JAD
I personally am a fan of Skoda. Really like the fabia and octavia models
 
@avazula Yeah, that's what I'm worrying about a little: That the car is going to be quite big with parking (and on narrow roads)
 
7:18 AM
@JAD I love Skodas too, plus they're way cheaper in my counry
 
JAD
but I have no experience with their automatics
@avazula I currently got a Skoda Fabia. It has nothing it doesn't need :P
 
@Tinkeringbell I actually have a "big" car (if you can picture a Renault Megane from the 2000s) but I think one gets used to it
 
A J
What about Skoda Laura?
 
@JAD I think I'll get one of these when I change cars
 
JAD
@AJ never seen those before
 
7:20 AM
personally really glad I dont need a car
sounds expensive and annoying
 
JAD
@avazula those are the ones you can put an entire football team in right?
@Magisch mostly expensive
but annoyingly convenient
@AJ one of the things I like about the Fabia and Octavia is the big space in the back. Those don't seem to have that
 
A J
@JAD It looks a good choice for family outing.
I don't need a sports kinda one.
 
@Magisch Well, I just found an updated price list.. Perhaps I shouldn't try and lease a car after all, they indeed have gotten a lot more expensive.
Time to postpone that phone call even further and start rethinking :/
 
@JAD yeah, it's quite big :p
 
some of my colleagues straight up pay more for their car then for rent
madness, I tell ya
 
7:29 AM
@Magisch Yeah, I don't think I'm willing to spend that much on a car ;)
 
JAD
@Tinkeringbell I took a look at it recently. If you make a lot of kilometers, private lease is pretty costly
Only good reason I found to lease a car if you cannot pay the purchasing costs upfront
 
Idk in the NL but in France new Skodas prices are starting at 8 or 9k I think
 
JAD
but then again, there are occasions that are much cheaper
 
But maybe you don't make a loan to buy a car over here
 
JAD
I bought mine for 3.5k. Used, 10 years old with 110k km
 
7:34 AM
@JAD of course :)
I think if I'd sell my car today I wouldn't get more than one grant
it's so old and not so much in a good shape haha
 
JAD
@avazula A quick google here shows that a new skoda fabia would be starting at 16k
 
@JAD o_o
maybe our wages are quite different then
 
JAD
could also be a difference in puchasing taxes
 
so if I were to get one of those I would spend the majority of my current savings just getting a car
no thanks
 
@JAD This would be company lease... but from the whole list of cars there's only 4 that fall within the travel budget I get, three of them are electric (which is a no-go for me), and the fourth one is plain ugly.
 
7:37 AM
I bought my bycicle 4 years ago for 300€ and it's had maybe 50€ in replacement parts since then
 
JAD
@Tinkeringbell why is electric a nogo?
@Magisch well yeah, that's why you don't buy a new car
 
@JAD There's no good way to charge the car at home here, and I'm also planning to move out some time and I don't want to have to make adaptations again just because of the car.
 
They're also not so good for the environment because of the making process and the materials of the batteries
My mother studied the hybrid cars and discovered that a hybrid already released at km 0 as much CO2 as a 15 y.o. gasoline car
 
I'm not sure if a regular gas car is any better XD
 
@Tinkeringbell Currently, they are. The problem is the disastrous mining and processing of the rare metals needed to make batteries
turns out making heaps of Lithium Ion batteries is bad for the environment
 
7:41 AM
Hmmm. Today I learned then :)
 
Well idk but my master's memoir was about the sanitary, ecological and social impacts of electronic devices and it made me discover the atrocities done against some African populations. They make them live in terror so they have cheap workforce to extract the rare earths and minerals
 
I guess I'll just stick with the public transport subscription.
 
JAD
yeah, but without wanting to be selfish, that is environment there vs environment here.
 
The democratic republic of Congo has been in a civil war for 13 years now and it highly benefits the rare earths market
 
The problem is climate change is sorta global
 
7:42 AM
@Tinkeringbell I have a car yet I take the bus to commute to work so I5 here :D
 
meaning if you produce 100t CO2 someplace in afriaca vs 80t here, you're still up down
 
Fedora is on my knees asking for cuddles again
 
JAD
@Magisch CO2 isn't the only consideration here
NOx emissions from combustion engines in the middle of cities is also relevant
 
Well obviously, but it's a large one
Sure, you save some fine dust and harmful gases here though
Not sure how well that holds up considering rare earth mining is literally fouling the land and salting the earth in large swathes of africa, though
 
(Cuteness overload in 3 ... 2... )
 
JAD
7:44 AM
@Magisch me neither, haven't studied that
 
 
1 hour later…
8:57 AM
@avazula Every time I see your cat, I hear purring in my head ^^
 
@Ælis a catalyst for autonomous purring sounds, you could say
 
A J
9:17 AM
@avazula Is that SO watch?
 
I was sad to not have question ideas these days. But, at least, I got a meta question idea today:
0
Q: Improving the Help center

ÆlisRecently, someone pointed out that the Help Center wasn't precise enough regarding what is and what isn't on-topic. It was about the first version of this question and here is what the comments said: I have been active on other StackExchange sites but I'm new to this one. From my POV the pag...

 
9:29 AM
@Ælis :) Nice to see that one :)
 
@AJ Nah, I don't have that privilege :) it's a smart watch that I bought a year ago for monitoring my health
 
@avazula I'm pretty sure the mod have the power to edit the help center (and the Tour) without the help of a CM, but lets wait for one of them to comfirm
 
@Ælis yea I wanted the confirmation ;)
 
@Ælis Only certain pages, but yeah, we can do edits to /on-topic :)
 
@Tinkeringbell Now I'm curious to know what are the one you can't edit? ^^
 
9:38 AM
@Ælis /dont-ask for example XD
Very frustrating :P
 
@Tinkeringbell Wow, serious? Oo That won't make things easier to improve your help center :/
 
2
Q: Improving the Help center

ÆlisRecently, someone pointed out that the Help Center wasn't precise enough regarding what is and what isn't on-topic. It was about the first version of this question and here is what the comments said: I have been active on other StackExchange sites but I'm new to this one. From my POV the pag...

 
@Ælis Wait, I got that wrong, we can edit /dont-ask
 
Ouf, that seems more logical this way
 
10:09 AM
@Ælis I'm going to say it isn't editable XD I confused some icons ;)
 
Next time I have a question about the help center, I will definitively not ask you. I'm more confuse now than before your "clarifications" :p
 
@Ælis XD
We can't edit help/dont-ask.
That's the part you need to remember XD
 
Haha, I will try to remember that (but I might discreetly ask someone else to back-up your claim :p)
 
help/dont-ask is not editable by mods.
There, backed up :P
 
Ahah, thank you :D
 
JAD
10:42 AM
@Tinkeringbell this is an emotional rollercoaster
 
...this question has a lot to unpack. First off is the comment section. The answers aren't very well backed up. And I think the question itself might be close worthy. o_o
 
@Mithrandir The question is definitively closed worthy as a "What should I do" (IMO). Wich mean that the answers don't need to be moderate \o/
 
...the comments can still go though :P
 
Yeap but, with the comments, you just need to click "delete". For the answers, you also need to leave nice, well explained comments which is much harder to do
 
11:07 AM
@Ælis I have a question: is this cultural appropriation to wear, say, a traditional Indian sari to a European celebration when you have no Indian roots?
 
...that sounds like it could possibly be an IPS question, if phrased right...
 
@Mithrandir I'm not sure I could face the "cultural appropriation doesn't exist" reactions :p
 
...in any case, leaving appropriation aside, you'd probably get some weird looks, especially if you don't "look Indian"...
@avazula :|
 
@Mithrandir I'm actually asking for me and I'm quite medium-toned especially in Summer. I could actually look Indian. But that's not why I'm asking
 
Cool.
 
I've been passioned about India since teenagehood and I have a sari but I learned afterwards about cult. approp. and I wouldn't want to offend anyone (even though chances are there'll be no people from Southern Asia there)
 
(I look like dough, so...)
 
@JAD Are you saying my chat question will be flagged as off topic? :p
 
JAD
no, but seeing as it was suggested to post on IPS...
maybe I should've tagged @Mithrandir
 
11:12 AM
looks
Looks like "it's okay but be careful with the phrasing" is what I'm getting from that
 
I have two weddings coming up this summer and am looking for a dress but if I go to traditional outfits I should rather go to Algerian or Spanish so I wouldn't come across as rude (as they're my origins)
 
11:33 AM
@avazula How well do you know the bride/groom, and do you think they'd appreciate you showing up in anything else than 'traditional European' wedding dress? :)
 
@Tinkeringbell They're my partner's best friends. I surely should ask the bride if she thinks it's "too much" but otherwise I think they wouldn't care
 
12:14 PM
@avazula I'm far from being an expert on this subject. If you don't know anything about the sari and its place in the culture behind it, then it's appropriation. If you, or any person that isn't Indian, is gaining money thanks to you wearing the sari (and/or you buying it) it's cultural appropriation. If the sari has some spiritual/religious value and you are not part of this religion, then it's cultural appropriation. Otherwise, I don't know.
 
@Ælis you still know more than I do :) thanks for your insight
I'm still too scared of coming across as rude so I think I'll stitch something
 
@avazula Good luck with your stitching then, I know it takes time and can be tiring
 
@Ælis what's most tiring for me is to go to the store, choose the model, choose the fabric and escape this overly crowded place :p
 
@avazula Yeah, doing shopping is just awful. I never understood people who liked to do that
 
@Ælis well, I like having new clothes (because most of the time I wear them to the ground haha) but shopping is overwhelming to me. So much choice ... haaaaa!
 
12:22 PM
Should I: 1) leave a poor comment "Hey, do you have any backup for this?" and vote to delete 2) not say anything and vote to delete (leaving a good comment isn't an option)
@avazula And pressure, and judgment, and people, and noise,...
 
@Ælis 'Please take a look at our citation expectations < link to meta >. You're suggesting X, have you had any success with this personally or external sources that recommend this approach?'
Why isn't leaving a good comment an option?
 
@Tinkeringbell too tired I guess
 
@Tinkeringbell I thought canned comments was bad?
 
@Ælis it's better than nothing I think
 
And yeah, leaving good comments is really tiring
 
12:25 PM
@Ælis It's not canned, you have to fill in X ;)
But it's a pattern that can help you write a good comment :)
 
0
Q: How to cancel a nearing appointment with a friend that I forgot about?

Maarten BamelisAbout a month ago, a friend I haven't heard from in some years invited me for dinner. We decided on a date that worked for both of us but I forgot to add it to my personal calendar. I was not particularly excited for this dinner but since I had no other plans, I accepted the invitation. A few da...

 
Oh, I didn't see this X ^^' But X is representing a lot of work. It's always easier when you don't need to think about the wording and can just say the same thing you already said a million time before.
Well, I finally left a mostly fine comment I guess: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/21503/…
 
@Ælis your comment is good :)
 
Yeah but it's not really personalized (but it does have a link, which my comments often don't have)
 
don't be too harsh on yourself. You did it, you did a pretty good job, and no one else left a comment. Thank you for taking hte time!
 
12:43 PM
<3
 
<3
 
1:33 PM
Oof, first pass through the LQP with delete privileges. It's a tad intimidating
 
https://interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/21503/how-to-tell-a-person-i-feel-theyre-only-pretending-to-like-me-when-they-need-so

Now that it's been edited to have an actual question at the end, what can be done to move it back off "On Hold" status?
 
@Philbo Any of the following: Vote to reopen if you have the privilege, bring it up here, bring it up on Meta, flag the post, comment on the post.
 
I'm taking a look at it now to see if it's ready
 
@Philbo Wait until OP added the clarification I asked for, either in comments or an edit?
 
Can I not retract a reopen vote?
 
1:42 PM
That's kinda why I cast the last vote as unclear...
@Rainbacon I don't think so...
 
Unfortunate, I didn't see your comment when I voted to reopen and now I can't undo it
 
175
Q: Ability to retract reopen/delete votes

amanaP lanaC A nalP A naM AIt seems that now we can retract close votes but we cannot retract reopen votes or delete votes. I am trying to retract my reopen vote here but it does not allow me to. Can we have that ability?

 
@Alex seems to me like you're always here to provide us the useful links :D
 
@avazula I have to do something to allow me to stay here. After all I've never posted on the main site.
 
@Alex to me you'd always be welcomed no matter what :)
I can't count the number of chats I'm in but don't participate on the site haha
 
1:45 PM
@avazula Thanks.
@avazula Well I've posted three times on Meta, so I guess that counts as some participation.
 
@Alex I don't think that's required. For example, @El'endiaStarman has only posted on main once (a very good post for what it's worth), and that was after hanging in chat for quite a while.
 
of course it does!
 
@Rainbacon Yeah. I wasn't quite being entirely serious.
 
2:08 PM
Yay, I've got a new joerb now! :-)
 
@TheTinyMan Congrats!
 
@TheTinyMan yay!
 
Thanks guys! :-D How's your search going, @Rainbacon?
 
@TheTinyMan It's been going well, I got several levels in with 3 different companies. 2 of them have since turned me down, but the third told me they want to bring me in for a final interview. Problem is, they haven't told me when that will be yet.
 
fingers crossed!
 
2:18 PM
@avazula The recruiter told me they were interviewing for 5 different spots, so they're having some trouble working out time for all of the candidates to come in.
 
erh :/
 
They did say that they were very impressed with my communication skills (yay for IPS)
Ooh, @AJ got a new picture
 
A J
Yep
 
@Rainbacon Nice! Fingers crossed indeed!
 
@avazula @TheTinyMan Thanks!
 
2:33 PM
:)
 
2:57 PM
Yesterday I reviewed a PR that had a hardcoded secret access token in the code. I marked it as "needs improvement" and left a comment that the token should be removed. My manager merged the PR anyway :(
 
@Tinkeringbell I'm not sure exactly how that applies to my manager actively pushing a secret access token into our source control
 
@Rainbacon Well, it sends the same message of 'don't worry about rework' :P
 
Perhaps I should mention that the manager who merged the PR was also the author of the PR
 
It reminded me a lot of co-worker ;)
@Rainbacon See... 'I'm not discussing this, but merging it my way' ;)
 
3:04 PM
Ok, that makes sense
 
@Rainbacon :) I'm sorry for not making sense immediately all the time :P
 
Well now there's a new PR to move it from the dev branch to the staging branch. Time to be insane
@Tinkeringbell Not to worry, I rarely make sense immediately
 
 
2 hours later…
5:25 PM
Just found out about the pro-tem election. . . That should be fun. :-)
 
user15026
That does sound pretty exciting
 
@HDE226868 Are you going to nominate? I think you should :)
 
@Tinkeringbell Yes, guess I was just on vacation these five weeks. :P
 
@HDE226868 \o/
 
I shall definitely be watching this from the sidelines. I might submit proposed questions for the questionnaire, though.
 
5:35 PM
I'm looking forward to seeing those. :)
 
How often do former moderators run again (and get elected)?
 
@Alex I'm not sure, I don't think there's ever been a precedent...
On a graduated site, if you're elected you don't have to rerun
On a pro-tem, you'd have to, but the pro-tem elections are so new I'm confident to say 'never happened yet'
Also, pro-tem elected mods still have to re-run upon graduation, but that also hasn't happened yet as far as I'm aware.
 
@Tinkeringbell I know of at least one case where a moderator was originally appointed, then when the site graduated and had an election he became a regular citizen, and then at the next election a few years later he became a moderator again.
 
It's definitely happened that pro-tem mods have run in elections (and in some cases I know, they lost the first election but won subsequent ones) and been reelected.
I doubt anyone's been a pro-tem mod twice for the same site, though.
 
@HDE226868 It's not really re-elected then, as they were appointed the first time round.
 
5:38 PM
@Tinkeringbell Oh, fair.
 
@Alex So wait, with run again you didn't really mean 'do an election nomination for a second time'?
Then HDE is right... ;)
 
@Tinkeringbell I meant a case where someone was a moderator at one point, then stopped being a moderator, and then tried (and perhaps succeeded) to become a moderator again.
I.e. as would be the case here if HDE would run.
 
Oh, then there should be a few. I still wouldn't count elected mods resigning and then being reappointed though, as being elected on a graduated site has (as far as I remember) always been 'for life' so there's not really any 'trying' involved in becoming a mod again :)
 
user15026
@HDE226868 I think I might have done that on Pets? I think I dropped it for a bit then picked it up again and then had to drop it but I don't recall for sure, and it wasn't ever an elected thing
 
You were a Pets mod? Do you have pets?
 
5:49 PM
Probably does have pet peeves.
 
@El'endiaStarman Never tell those to people on the internet though! The fall under everything you say can and WILL be used against you :P
 
@Tinkeringbell But they would still have to win the new election.
 
user15026
@Tinkeringbell I've one cat currently
 
@Ash Oh duh! The one with diabetes... Sorry, I forgot! How's he? Norbert? doing?
@Alex Ehh, not really? If you were an elected moderator on a graduated site, you can resign then at any point in the future reclaim your diamond, as far as I know, without having to be elected again. It's one of those things that was up for discussion a while back on MSE
 
user15026
@Tinkeringbell Norbert's doing great, we found a insulin level he responds well to :)
 
user15026
5:58 PM
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, that's how I understand it
 
@Ash Glad to hear that! Does that mean he can get that surgery anytime soon now?
(If I shouldn't be talking in here about stuff I remember from your Twitter, lemme know ;) )
 
@Tinkeringbell Really? In any case, in the case I was thinking of the guy was a pro tem moderator and then either didn’t run or didn’t win in the first election. He then had to be elected at the next election.
 
@Alex Okay, so you've got your anecdata :P There have been cases of moderators running again and getting elected ;)
 
user15026
@Tinkeringbell We're still waiting on his surgery stuff, we want to make sure he's good and stable for a while before we mess with anything else. But I am thinking probably by the summer we will be able to do ti
 
I'm predicting at least half a dozen people nominating themselves for these elections :p
 
6:00 PM
6? That's a lot!
@Ash Sounds good. Fingers crossed all keeps going well then! :)
 
@Tinkeringbell I could name them but I don't think that'd be in the spirit of TAS
we'll see :)
I guess you're looking for one new mod only?
 
@avazula Nah, peer pressure isn't nice :P
 
user15026
@Tinkeringbell Yeah, I am pretty hopeful. He's been SO good about the twice a day shots.
 
@avazula Yep
 
@Tinkeringbell I didn't want to do it, you were the one surprised haha
 
user15026
6:02 PM
(If I take too long, he meows and then stretches out on the floor in the position he likes for me to do it in and looks at me like "come on human do the stuff")
 
@Ash Awww!
 
user15026
I think he's realized it makes him feel better.
 
@Ash aaaw
 
@Ash Smart cat!
 
@avazula After the election you'll have to tell us if you were right about all of the people you thought would run
 
6:05 PM
@Rainbacon I could actually after the nomination period ends :)
 
user15026
@Rainbacon Yeah, now I am curious! I am sure we will have a number of excellent candidates.
 
To me there's already at least 2 of them in here :p
maybe 3 but I'm less sure
 
@avazula well HDE isn't in here at the moment ;)
 
@Rainbacon I know
 
Can I run if I’ve never posted?
 
6:09 PM
I don't think of anything that would prevent you lol
 
@Alex I think you still need the minimum of 300 reputation for nominating yourself, so no :(
 
I don't think we'll get the badges recap like on the other sites though
@Tinkeringbell oh this I didn't know
 
@Tinkeringbell It's possible to earn reputation without posting. I'm already at 115.
 
@Alex I forgot about edits. Okay, then you can, but hurry!
elementaryos.stackexchange.com/election is what a beta election looks like
artofcode.co.uk/elections is a good site to keep an eye on if you want to see more elections
 
@Tinkeringbell wooh, nice site!
AOC really is amazing haha
 
@avazula I haven't seen them around in a while
 
@Alex I meant the site's author Art of Code, I don't know enough about the news to say anything about American politicians
 
no TV no news, no news ... less drama?
I know it may seem a bit coward, but I really can't stand watching the news
 
I know. It's just that Google apparently thinks that of people named AOC she's more famous than Art of Code.
 
6:16 PM
@Alex :O how dare they
 
@avazula I get my news from Twitter
 
I get mine from Youtube and Facebook I guess
 
And I get mine here.
 
haha
 
 
1 hour later…
7:35 PM
@Alex I have a couple math friends who've commented that they always read "AOC" as the axiom of choice :P
 
@EmC Wikipedia definition: In mathematics, the axiom of choice, or AC, is an axiom of set theory equivalent to the statement that the Cartesian product of a collection of non-empty sets is non-empty. And I still have no idea what it is.
 
yeah, I am definitely not a math person either :P
> Informally put, the axiom of choice says that given any collection of bins, each containing at least one object, it is possible to make a selection of exactly one object from each bin, even if the collection is infinite.
^ that explanation is more on my level, haha
 
Not much better...
 
Oooh. Axiom of Choice leads to some really funky results. For instance, the famous Banach-Tarski theorem that says you can decompose a ball into pieces and then reassemble them to make two whole balls. No gaps or anything.
 
@El'endiaStarman yay, a math person :D
that just reminds me of the infinite chocolate bar gif
(but I know that one is wrong)
 
7:45 PM
@EmC Even.
 
7:58 PM
@El'endiaStarman I looked up Banach-Tarski, that was... quite something
 
I concur!
Vsauce has a good video about it:
 
 
1 hour later…
9:16 PM
How should I comment to someone who is ignoring a culture tag? I found a fairly poor answer on a question that is tagged with a country, and the answer starts off with "From my [other country on a different continent] perspective"
I downvoted and flagged, but I'd like to leave a comment as well
 
0
Q: Why choose "negotiate with your fears" instead of "eliminate your fears"?

IDDQDWhy do I see a significant number of questions (and not just on this site too!) about how people can GET ALONG & NEGOTIATE with their self-conscious fears rather than DEAL WITH & ELIMINATE their self-conscious fears? Several weeks ago I recall a question where a person was asking how to say no t...

 
@Rainbacon we have this meta (I don't recall a more recent one?) suggesting answers should be allowed from other cultures, as long as they specify that
of course if it's poor for other reasons, totally fine to vote/flag on that ;)
also this one.. actually I like the answer there better, even though I was a duplicate voter there :P
 
9:40 PM
@EmC Hmm, yeah, I might just leave the cultural context part of it alone
 

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