English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

gods-damn you CVS! Why won't you tag files properly!?

Oh?

What?

HTTP 500

Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol

@DavidWallace I wonder if browsers will handle that one correctly

The Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP for short) is a communications protocol for controlling, monitoring, and diagnosing coffee pots. It is specified in RFC 2324, published on 1 April 1998 as part of an April Fools prank. The wording of the protocol made it clear that it wasn't entirely serious; noting, for example, "there is a strong, dark, rich requirement for a protocol designed espressoly [sic] for the brewing of coffee" that included a pun on the word "espresso." Despite the joking nature of its origins, or perhaps because of it, the protocol has remained as a minor pres...

> A strong, dark, rich requirement

Q: Is English the only language that distinguishes thumbs from other fingers?

0

A Russian colleague of mine recently told me that English is the only language that actively distinguishes between fingers and thumbs by having a completely separate word. Her phrasing of it was "English is the only language where you have 8 fingers, in all others there are 10!". This surprises ...

What? How is this on topic for ELU?

1:22 PM

@Robusto does your O stand for "Off" or "On"

This maybe belongs on Linguistics.SE.

Maybe

And, of course, we have the bottom feeders coming in to offer instances of other languages that call fingers and toes something different from English, while ignoring the actual question. Congratulations, folks.

Does Linguistics allow for that sort of thing?

Other languages don't distinguish between thumb and other fingers?

I don't get it.

How is that even a real question.

1:26 PM

Barrie lets us all know that he knows the French word for finger. Very good, Barrie. And you shall have a gold star.

And a chromo.

@Robusto it doesn't belong anywhere.

Then send it to Nowhere.SE

Step 1: check the Wiktionary translations for *finger*.
Step 2: check the Wiktionary translations for *thumb*.
Step 3: there is no Step 3.

We need narq.se where all the narqs go

SOrry to contradict. It is a legitimate question....if it is about English.

1:29 PM

Really, with English being a Germanic language, how about you just check German? It would immediately reject the premise that English is special about thumbs.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Lots of people don't know this

Is a thumb a finger? of course it is. But a non-native english speaker must have heard that it was distinguished from other fingers and so is not a finger (that being a nonsequitur)

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yes, and lots of people don't know what "spouse" means. Yet, we closed that one, too.

@Mitch Is English the only language that ...? This site is about English and we don't care about other languages.

so is English special about thumbs? It might be (but it's obviously not to native speakers).

Yes, that part of the question is off topic. remove the question about 'other languages' and it's on topic.

1:31 PM

@Mitch The definition of the word "finger" explains that the thumb may or may not be considered a finger. Since it may be, that's the end of the story. If someone asked "when do I have to use 'thumb' and when is it ok to say 'finger'", THAT would be a legitimate question IMO.

"Is a hot dog a sausage?" was a legitimate question.

(it is, but most people don't think of it that way).

@Mitch How is that a legitimate question?

But seriously, people are getting more and more stupid each day.

Q: Is it acceptable to call a hot dog a sausage?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 the hot dog question?

7

This sounds like a silly question, but I've heard some very strong opinions about this, so I find this intriguing. A hot dog is a type of sausage (at least according to Merriam-Webster, Wikipedia, and Encyclopedia Britannica), but I find that very few friends and coworkers agree with this, and t...

meaning word-usage terminology

@Mitch Le chien chaud est la saucisse Americaine.

1:36 PM

@Mitch The question answers itself in the second sentence!

Now I do wonder who's downvoting Barrie.

He actually answered the question.

@Robusto I'm not hungry anymore.

Oh haha. I see Rob's comment now.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 How did he answer the question?

Q: Is English the only language that distinguishes thumbs from other fingers? A: French does.

1:38 PM

I wonder if there is anything in these hundreds of boxes? I'll open one and check.

And that makes the whole thing off-topic. If the question were 'does English really distinguish thumb and finger (in the explained way)?" then that would be on-topic

Aye.

So the thumb is the hot dog of fingers?

2

@skullpatrol It could be, but it's not.

> Yes, dear friends, a mighty Hot Dog is Our Lord. — Firesign Theater

1:40 PM

So actually there are not one but two very bold premises here: that English does distinguish, and that no other language does.

Is a hound a dog?

of course.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 That's why it's a hilarious joke for 8 year olds.

Both by a non-native speaker, no less.

Shhh... Jasper is here :D

Who's a native speaker of a language in which people have 20 fingers.

@skullpatrol No, the hot-dog is the thumb of sausages

1:42 PM

Wait, what? Pineapples have 20 fingers? I think they call those "leaves."

Russian pineapples do.

Two thumbs up

or two sausages up :D

No sausages up in this chat.

I can only get one sausage up at a time.

Noob.

Watch some training videos with Eva Angelina.

1:43 PM

@Mitch Ok so on reading that question I see that the REAL question is at the end of the long explanation which is a question about regional usage, which is sorta on-topic about English but it's really a question about culture in predominantly English-speaking countries. I.E. culturally hot-dogs are afforded special status and the usage reflects that.

user19161

@skullpatrol Don't you know I can read even if I am not in this chat?

user19161

@skullpatrol Congrats on the star. You are getting many stars these days. Soon you will be a star too.

@JasperLoy you misspelled "Don't you know I cannot read even if I am in this chat?"

@JasperLoy Yes :D

@JasperLoy You are confusing the "has-a" relationship with the "is-a" relationship. That's a typical error in object-oriented analysis.

A: Past perfect tense in this example

1:46 PM

0

Your should add a "the" before UK. Also, change street to streets, unless you are referring to a particular street. You could also try: (Many) years ago, when I was walking down the streets in the UK, I saw many beautiful shops. (Many) years ago, I saw many beautiful shops in the UK when I was ...

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yes, that's one possibility of dealing with hyponyms. another is with finger/thumb (a thumb definitely -is- a finger in English, if someone had their thumb accidentally cut off, and they said, I got a finger cut off" you would be surprised when you saw that it was a thumb. But if they said 'I'm eating e a sausage for lunch' and what they're eating is a hot dog, you'd be somewhat taken aback.

Meh. More Dummheit.

user19161

There seem to be many ESL people answering questions posed by ETL people.

Q: What is the plural form of "the name of which"?

0

Consider we have a sentence: I have a box named "A". rewritten as such: I have a box, the name of which is "A". How should we rewrite the sentence if now there is more than one "item"? I have three boxes, named "A", "B", and "C". Is the sentence below grammatical? : I have t...

grammar

Gen-ref.

@JasperLoy ETL? Extract, Transform, Load?

1:49 PM

Every dictionary I checked says that "which" can refer to one or more things. With examples.

@Mitch If someone said "I lost all the fingers on my left hand", would you be surprised if they still had their thumb, or if they didn't have it?

user19161

Fingers may or may not include thumbs, depending on context.

surprised (but then that's me, you may have a different answer, and either way, if it's one answer or the other or people have different answers, it makes it a legitimate question)

whether French does it or not is interesting, and a great comment on the situation, but is off topic

user19161

Is there an equivalent for finger/thumb other than toe/big toe?

Englsih as a -third- language? is that a thing?

1:53 PM

@Mitch In any case, the question was not asking "When is a thumb a finger when when is it not", it was "is English unique about the thumb never being a finger?"

@JasperLoy Yes, in Walpiri. They distinguish the middle digit, but not toes/fingers. Kind of a cultural thing.

@Mitch it is for me.

And so I may be biased, but ETL > ESL, contrary to what Jasper suggests.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 So you have to learn English by being taught it in a language that is not your first language?

@Mitch Is that the distinction between "Third language" vs "second language"? the language of instruction?

When you already have one foreign language under your belt, the questions you ask about your next one are likely to be less dumb.

1:55 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, so could be reworded to be on-topic.

user19161

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 That is true.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I don't know, I'm just guessing, and asking Jasper for clarification about what he meant.

@Mitch heheh re-worded. "If only you re-word this to ask a totally different question, it would be on-topic!"

also, I made up that thing about Walpiri

user19161

@Mitch Really? I believed you.

user19161

1:56 PM

I am not even sure what Walpiri is.

user19161

It sounds like a walnut.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 logic humor noted, and registered.

@Mitch I had to learn my third language in my second, yes, and I speak both with greater confidence than I do my first.

@Mitch Well, I've taken classes with people who were learning Chinese as a "third language" by your definition. So it's a thing, anyway.

@JasperLoy It is.

Argh. That's not right.

1:57 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Does it count for me that English was my second language? I sorta lost my first somewhere... I put it down when I was a child and then we moved house and I can't find it anymore.

It is the language (from Australia) that is usually used for a counter example, like 'all languages have postpositive noncountable de-enclitic nouns' except for Walpiri.

Obviously.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Sure but 'ETL'? What did you mean Jasper?

user19161

@Mitch Oh I meant third. Anyway you know what I mean.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I'm stil taking my first language. I'm not doing very well. Obviously.

user19161

@Mitch still

Some people don't even have a first language.

Think Schwarzenegger. He is not a native speaker of anything.

user19161

2:00 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I thought he says astalavista.

Actually now that you've confessed, I don't know what you mean. Most language learning doesn't really distinguish between second and third languages, it's all 'native' vs ' non-native' (unless you code switch).

"I'll be back"

Well again, which language is Arnie a native speaker of?

@JasperLoy I meant 'stil' like style in Dutch. Very mod.

His German is non-existent. You speak better German. Whoever you are.

2:01 PM

Whatever it is it is not native.

user19161

@Mitch Well, I just wanted to say that the answers are not very good, you know what I mean, as if there is an inequality first more than second more than third.

user19161

@skullpatrol Yeah, Skull will be back patrolling!

@Mitch Excuse me?

That ain't no Dutch, Sir.

user19161

@Cerberus You are excused.

Good.

2:03 PM

I don't see the distinction between 2nd and 3rd, I just see native fluency and non-native ... not having a command. OK I also see native idiocy (who can speak 'correctly' but have no self-reflection). I also see tiny rainbows whenever I sneeze.

2

@Cerberus That ain't no Dutch sir! That's a Dutch madam!

Stijl.

I misspelled.

Which is German for steep.

The Dutch can't even steal right.

@Mitch What ever happened to English as a "foreign" language?

2:04 PM

"Stil" is a word, but it means "silent".

user19161

@Mitch I wonder how you sneeze.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Look who's talking!

It's a medical condition.

@Cerberus who?

user19161

I have to sneeze in a certain way so that I don't feel pain in the perineum. My anatomy is special like that.

2:05 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Stijl is German for steep? It already means steep in Dutch, you pack o' thieves!

Talk like that is inappropriate here.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Do.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Kristie Allie's womb.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Her womb? or its spawn?

@Mitch Inappropriate talk is generally ignored.

user19161

2:06 PM

@Cerberus Ah, that's one of your favourite lines.

@Cerberus wow you don't even know Dutch!

The Dutch word for steep is steil, not stijl.

Oh.

Eh I don't know what to say.

My ei's and ij's have always been horrible.

Aug 1 '11 at 23:50, by RegDwight

Wow, the Dutch language consists of just one word, and even that one word native speakers of Dutch don't understand.

@Cerberus say this...what is the word for 'not steep' in Dutch.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 They are impossible to distinguish, because they have the same colour.

I am slightly better at ou v. au.

2:08 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I have a problem.

NinjaTurtle

back again.

user19161

Dutch looks very much like English sometimes.

Should I star the quote or the original message?

@Mitch What is the word for 'not steep' in Dutch.

@Cerberus !! I was actually referring to Jasper's medical problems.

2:08 PM

@Gigili admitting that you have a problem is the first step.

@Cerberus Thank you.

user19161

@Gigili Neither. You should star more of my messages.

@Mitch I know. See, you're still not ignoring it.

@Gigili the original is already starred, fource.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 I know there's no second step.

user19161

2:09 PM

@Mitch Yes, I think he knows.

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Okay, I just wanted to make you happy.

user19161

Why did Barrie get three downvotes for his French answer?

because it is answering a very off topic question.

user19161

Ha, you know what I will say, I am a victim myself.

user19161

I think only wrong answers should be downvoted.

2:13 PM

No I don't know what you will say. What will you say?

books.google.com/ngrams/…

You know how much I despise NGrams used frivolously, but I think this one is germane and even cogent here.

user19161

@Robusto I see you engaged Rudra.

user19161

@Robusto I think they are only useful for producing a beautiful graph for admiration.

No, sometimes they do show an important difference. But they are a blunt instrument in most hands.

@Robusto what question is that for?

Q: Past perfect tense in this example

2:17 PM

> Are you sure you want to delete your account? Is there anything that we can do to make you reconsider?

Give me $100.

user19161

@Gigili They sent you that email recently?

user19161

0

For the following example: I had seen many beautiful shops in UK, when I was walking down the street years ago. I'm not sure if the phrase "years ago" at the end of this sentence is correct. Should I put it before the start of the sentence?

grammar past-tense past-perfect

@JasperLoy No? Who are "they"?

user19161

@Gigili I thought you are not deleting anymore?

@JasperLoy I'm not deleting my SE account. I'm translating that sentence.

user19161

2:22 PM

@Gigili But you may delete if you wish to.

@JasperLoy I'm not in the mood now, relax and enjoy your time.

hello all

@Robusto yes, it's relevant and works but only after judging the possible variations ('walking down the streets of' might actually be the better comparison, to make the context closer (I read it as a grammatical mistake, standing alone))

2:46 PM

@Mitch No. The "of" throws it off. "Walking down the streets of [place]" is a different idiom.

waves @Matt

Hi @cornbreadninja :)

how goes it, @Matt?

I am uninterested in working :x

also, the guy next to me has poor volume control when on the phone

heh, I'm done with work for the day, but I'm meant to be meeting someone soon about some work I might be interested in.

Vitaly

@Reg Everyone's def is going like 0/10 against MoM. And they put up 4K in the first 10 minutes.

2:51 PM

@Robusto OK. But with just 'streets of' you don't have to specify any specific location (because (presumably) to have something else would be crazy)

@cornbreadninja Oh, that's so annoying. I used to sit across from someone like that. thankfully she was only a temp

@MattЭллен that sounds nice. I'm trying to get started working for myself.

nice. I'm not too fussed either way, but if the project is super interesting I'll give it shot.

@Vitaly Surge or Fight?

@cornbreadninja what kind of work do you do?

Vitaly

2:52 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 Fight. Sycophant spam Fight, supposedly.

@MattЭллен it's more amusing to me than anything right now. He gets excited when things are broken and uses his diaphragm. What kind of project, if I may be so bold?

@MattЭллен I am (puffs out chest) a Telecommunications Network Provisioner

@cornbreadninja I'm not entirely sure. some sort of house automation system, I think

but I puff my chest in jest

@MattЭллен oooh, like X10?

@cornbreadninja sounds like you sell phones? ;)

@MattЭллен if only it were that easy. I order T1 though OCXX fiber, POTS lines, and Feature Group B trunks

2:54 PM

@cornbreadninja I don't know. :D I've not done anything like this before so it'll be interesting just finding out

@cornbreadninja oh, errr, of course!

@MattЭллен that is awesome.

sorry to be a party pooper, but I've got to go!

CU

@Matt goodbye and good luck with the meeting

Q: "I am gonna have to" vs. "I have to"

please someone add proper tags to this question:

2

What is the difference between "I am gonna have to" and "I have to"? When would you use the first one? update: I am specifically asking about situations like the one described here.

grammar

user19161

@cornbreadninja Diaphragm? You use that only for singing opera!

2:59 PM

@JasperLoy I used it for all of my singing, from standards to Italian arias. They told me to; I had no choice.

user19161

@cornbreadninja Are you soprano or alto?

@JasperLoy alto. She said I had three octaves.

I quit when I got these braces. :\

user19161

@cornbreadninja Three is a lot. I think I have only 2.5.

Vitaly

@Reg And I'm at 21/1 on active against MoM. Fight, too. >_> I'm seeing a s**tload of unfamiliar WB cards like Jagatai.

user19161

@cornbreadninja What has braces got to do with singing? Braces just make you look cute.

3:03 PM

@JasperLoy I like to sing Roy Orbison songs, but not exclusively

thanks gigli bigli

@JasperLoy My entire mouth hurt for about six weeks. My quitting may have been premature. I had other problems with my teacher, though.

user19161

@cornbreadninja Shh...

@Meysamرهادربند Any time!

@Gigili Please say hi to your son for me

user19161

3:05 PM

@Meysamرهادربند Gigili has a son?

@Meysamرهادربند I will, I will.

@JasperLoy Yes she does! You can't imagine how beautiful he is

user19161

@Meysamرهادربند Now you are just making shit up.

@JasperLoy Ask her if you don't believe me, she confirms.

user19161

@Meysamرهادربند Nah, I won't pry into her life.

user19161

3:08 PM

So @meysam have you decided who you are going to vote for?

@JasperLoy In which election?

user19161

@Meysamرهادربند Well, you were talking about the SO one.

@JasperLoy nice new shade of blue you've working there. :)

user19161

@cornbreadninja Ha, I usually would not contract the have in that line, sounds a bit weird to me.

@JasperLoy I know very few people there, so I don't think I will vote for anyone. I am just waiting for an election here on EL&U.

user19161

3:12 PM

@Meysamرهادربند OK. If I am in a good mood, maybe I will consider running.

user19161

But for now I will only walk.

@JasperLoy I wouldn't in speech, and normally wouldn't in writing, but I decided to nonetheless.

@JasperLoy Do it. I will vote for you.

@JasperLoy you've my vote. ;)

user19161

@cornbreadninja Yeah, just to provoke a response from me!

3:15 PM

I hate it when the answerer comments, "To the downvoter blahblahblah".

user19161

@Gigili Oh I did that a couple of times too.

I'd love to downvote just to make him more angry.

user19161

@Gigili Oh I do that sometimes too.

Please do not intentionally make anybody angry. They are father of some child and husband to some wife. An angry father/husband is capable of making life more bitter than what it is supposed to be.

@Meysamرهادربند Noted.

Actually I don't do it but I'd love to, as I said.

3:30 PM

I'm gonna go do some work or something.

chatkillah out.

Quiz time!

What is Usain Bolt doing there?

I first need to know what is Usain Bolt.

That indeed you need.

Meanwhile I'm out.

Monica

3:58 PM

Hello

4:23 PM

@RegDwightΒВBẞ8 being a limbo bar for the woman?

Who's going to remove his message next?

4:47 PM

Impressive.

5:11 PM

(removed)

(removed)

gigaom.com/mobile/…

> U.S. Circuit Judge Richard Posner stated that there was no point in holding a trial because it was apparent that neither side could show they had been harmed by the other’s patent infringement.

> Judge James Robart blasted Motorola and Microsoft in Seattle last week, noting that ”The court is well aware that it is being played as a pawn in a global industry-wide business negotiation.”

prjndhi

hello

@prjndhi Hello, how can I help you?

prjndhi

sir,i am not knowing meaning of "concerns" here is example'

In separate letters ,state education secretary Hasmukh Adhia and industrialist Chintan ,both members of the IIM board of governors, have raised concerns over the manner in which the committee was formed as well as its composition.

Definition of "concern": encrypted.google.com/…

In short it means "things that they are worried (concerned) about"

@prjndhi Does that answer your question?

5:28 PM

@prjndhi Is there any other thing I can help you with?

prjndhi

in which context composition use ?

@MrShinyandNew thanks for answer