The Awkward Silence

12:01 AM

0

I'm currently an IT student in college, and I encounter an issue with a friend of mine. Each year, a teacher gives to students, projects' topics, and he dispatches them according to wishes that students give, from an algorithm. Unfortunately, this year, all didn't happen as students wanted to ...

Em C

2:21 AM

→ 32 messages moved to Trash

ElizB

Thanks :)

Em C

good evening :)

since I saw someone mention we only ever get "good morning" in here :P

Alex

That would be me.

But it's morning somewhere, so Good Morning.

Em C

2:38 AM

haha yep, usually it's @AJ saying that when I come here in the evenings

timezones are fun

Alex

Indeed.

A J

2:50 AM

@EmC good morning! ;)

Em C

@AJ hello :D

dhein

5:48 AM

@RichardU Thank you :) That was really helpfull. :)

dhein

6:00 AM

@Tinkeringbell you mean such a meta post? Or that concept about answers? (Isn't that what we ahve already?^^)

Ah and Good what ever to all of you :)

@ExtrovertedMainMan Speaking of similarity with RPG.SE '^.^

interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/20810/32 Should this answer actually be downvoted and deleted? I mean, I see it being usefull and true. But from all I know about our policys, it is a) challenging OP's frame without giving much info about why this is better than what OP asks for. and b) it lacks any backup.

avazula

8:50 AM

→ 3 messages moved to Trash

Good morning everyone!

dhein

9:35 AM

Morning :)

Noon

10:41 AM

flag-pls | interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/20696/…

Right now, I'm really taking upon myself to not start arguing with them, so if someone could flag this quikly, I would appreciate ^^

I'm sorry but I have to say that: If you are not on the autism spectrum, don't tell autistic person that they have a mental disorder

Extroverted Main Man

0

Q: when I don't know German Language that time what I do?

I am currently working as software developer but more things is in my company all Employee are discuss all things in German that time my moral was down because I can not get anythings what they want to say or wanted to Explanation task. What should I do for this problem? please let me know or wri...

work-environment coworkers non-verbal-communication

JAD

@Noon hmm, Wikipedia calls it a developmental disorder

wonder what the difference is

Noon

10:58 AM

@JAD I don't know but I know that a lot of people in the autism community are unhappy with the "disorder" name. If we are just thinking in a different way, is it really a disorder? If autism people where the majority, neurotypical people would be the one wearing the "disorder" label, so does this label really makes sense?

JAD

hmm, I personally am autistically disordered, doesn't necesarily bother me.

Point is, if it's just a label, why get all worked up over it.

By calling it a coming out, you yourself as treating it as a special thing as well

Noon

@JAD It doesn't necesarily bother me either, except when it's a neurotypical person who tell me that. "Mental disorder" has a bad connotation so let me decide to use this terme or not

@JAD Well, judging from the reactions I get when telling people I'm on the autism spectrum, it definitvely fell like a coming out... (I come out to my familly about being a lesbien and it was waaaaay easy)

dhein

I am on it. reading before flagging tho

Noon

@dhein Sure, that's good practice, never blindly flag something because someone on chat ask you to ^^

JAD

@Noon Guess that has to do with people thinking it's a binary thing, instead of a spectrum

Noon

11:10 AM

@JAD Yeah, definitively look like that

dhein

First comment is gone after I flagged, second is flagged :P

Noon

@dhein Thank you :)

dhein

BTW, @Noon mind adding to that OP some info about what exactly you expect from an answer to that question? Right now I could add an answer how I am handling these kinds of conversation, I assume, tho that wouldn't be what you ask for. You say you don't want a conversation, and I get that. But then what else you want to transport without having conversation, if not "I don't want to discuss this"?

And just as a side note on this: As annoying this can be, I think it is infact just meant to be a compliment, especially after recently I had been told this from other autistic coworkers, in the context of me explaining them something about their autism. The reaction was like "Uh, you are handling this so well, you really are the opposite of the autistic stereotype" I know that person said it with an admiring intend, but still it felt to me like what you describe in your post.

Noon

@dhein I just want to let them know that I find there reaction hurftul but I would also avoid having to argue with the fact that "no, it's not hurtful"

dhein

@Noon Are you maybe confusing disorder with disability? I experienced it a few times already someone calling autism an disability and I know that the community is totally against it. But an disorder is actually pretty much what it is, AFAIK

@Noon So shutting down the covnersation and not letting it come up again (what from my experience does only happen once per person anyways) without offending the other would be an acceptable answer for you here?

JAD

11:22 AM

@dhein best way to do that is to just not bring it up in the first place I guess. But I assume that's not an option

Noon

@dhein Yeah and hopefully make them understand that they shouldn't react like that with someone else in a similar situation (because they might hurt the other one feeling)

@JAD That's not an option indeed ^^

JAD

May I ask what you hope to gain by bringing it up?

Noon

@JAD I don't want to feel like I'm hiding a durty little secret

dhein

Yeah I am confused a bit by that, too. And I am not too sure yet if phrasing an answer would really add any value to the existing answers :/

JAD

So it's not a disorder, but it is dirty?

I treat it very much as a need to know thing. Generally it doesn't affect me, so I don't need to tell people. Whenever something needs explanation, that's when it warrants telling.

Noon

11:27 AM

@JAD If you feel like you must hide it, then yes, it makes me feel like that

JAD

Especially in IT, autism is so commonplace...

dhein

@Noon Why you feel so?

JAD

@Noon but imo there's a difference between hiding something and actively bringing it up

Noon

@JAD You aren't living in France, the context is different here and people don't trust you when you tell them that you are on the spectrum :/

JAD

I would consider hiding autism to be actively going out of my way to not "act autistic".

@Noon I guess

Whereas not telling someone, isn't as much hiding it, but just living it, by lack of a better word.

dhein

11:30 AM

@Noon I know how you feel :(

Noon

@dhein If you are writting an answer please consider that some people are really against the idea that I could be autistic (because I "don't look like one") and react very poorly when I tell them that I am

@JAD There is a lot of people who would qualify as "need to know" but I don't tell them, because Im too afraid of they reaction

dhein

@Noon: Would you be willing to share what the worst experiences were, you made so far by sharing with others that you are autistic? I mean I get your point and know myself how that covnersation can feel, but I can't really remember any situation, where just telling someone about it escelated. Usually it was just their ignorance of that info afterwards that made thigns escelate; for me.

Noon

@dhein I will edit my question to do so

@JAD Also, I have a coworker that I really and that might be on the spectrum too. But I can't tell them that I'm autistic because I don't know how much she knows about autism and I feel like I have to keep quiet until I educate her about autism and, only after, I would be able to trust her with my "secret" (I'm on probation period and I'm afraid I will be dismess if they know I'm on the spectrum)

JAD

(I'm on probation period and I'm afraid I will be dismess if they know I'm on the spectrum)

That would be a juicy lawsuit if I ever seen one

dhein

@JAD Well the problem for germany (and probs same in france) is, in your probation period, you can get terminated without the need of giving any reason.

Noon

11:40 AM

@JAD No, it wouldn't. They would find another reason to dismiss me and it would be impossible to prove that it was because I'm on the spectrum. Companies (not mine specificaly) do that a lot and really tend to get away with it...

JAD

@dhein That still doesn't give the right to discriminate. And I think there is a case to make that the dismissal was due to the revelation

But I guess it depends on jurisdiction

sucks

dhein

@JAD Here in germany it clearly says, you don't have to justify your decision if it was on probation period. So ofcause it would not be ok to discriminate. But if even to a judge your employer can say "I don't want to give any reasons for that termination" How you supposed to prove them being discriminating? ^^

JAD

@dhein by proving that you were fired exactly after they found out

but then I guess you tell them one day after probation ended

Noon

@JAD That's mostly my plan. End of probation, then telling them

@dhein I edited my question

dhein

12:11 PM

@JAD Yep, or you have the selfconfidence I had and keep telling them in the interview already, and tell your self "If that's a reason for them to not hire me, it was anyways a company I wouldn't want to work for."

3

But yeah, usually thats what you do here, as Noon said. Just telling them after probation, so they can't terminate you for that anymore without risking getting into serious trouble.

JAD

In that case I'd still edge towards not telling them at all

it's not really any of their business

avazula

@Noon it's gone, I flagged as unkind

Ok guys, I just posted my 1-month leaving warning

Wish me luck! o/

dhein

@avazula Good luck x) Now just make house partys every evening. Cause thats what autists like to do when they have that oportunity x'D

dhein

12:53 PM

@Noon Ok, given your edit, as Richard tought me already yesterday. Family is a different thing. Given my autism related family background my therapist once told me, my mom most likely reacted like she did, cause autism is belived sometimes to come from external influence. So me telling her of my autism likely sound to her like blaming her for my situation.

@Noon for your post perse, I wouldnt conclude from family to random people. So I have to honestly say, knowing how this feels for you Id really love to help. But I couldnt add anything that isnt already covered by current answers. I see no way how you could teach people not to continue that behavior without inviting for discussion :/

All I could advice would rather be a frame challange, and the last time I did that my impression was I offended you, what I would prefer to not make happen again :x

Noon

1:11 PM

@dhein I must say, I tend to have something against frame-challenge ^^ But I'm still curious about what you would have suggested. Also, I appreciate your willingness to help and I must say, I'm not sure myself that there is a way to tell people "don't do that" without inviting a discussion

IPS Comment Bot

1:38 PM

Take all my +1's! As someone who was in a normal income household but found a partner from a very high income household it was hard to go to a restaurant every weekend and it getting paid by them. I couldn't make them understand that it was difficult for my because of my feelings. They did the same as you described here and it helped so much! — Nico 1 min ago

Matched regex(es) ["+1"]

avazula

@IPSCommentBot tp

dhein

1:55 PM

@Noon Well I can share my idea with you, but just gotta go now. I will consider if I can put it in as answer, or otherwise ping you about it here tomorrow

avazula

@Noon Sorry girl, but hello frame challenge

(Don't worry, I mostly answer your question, I just add that it may not always be a good idea to come out)

Noon

@avazula Wow, that's a long answer with a lot of research! And I really like the way you ended your question <3

avazula

@Noon ♥

I hope this is not too much of a frame challenge (I don't think so, as I answered your question? Not disclosing autism to some people is more of general advice)

Noon

@dhein I was more expecting that you would post your idea in one or two sentences in chat ^^ But I'm fine if you want to write an answer :)

@avazula No, I think it's fine the way it is :)

Transcript for