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3:00 PM
Are there any jelly beans?
@Kosmonaut and Robusto: check the "close" tab in the tools and see if you would throw in your close-vote on any of those.
Hi @JaimeSoto.
I voted to close two of them.
@RegDwight: There is a star more to be the Turkish flag, and two stars less to be the New Zealand flag. :-)
I wasn't completely sure about the "archivable" question.
3:04 PM
I think there are two stars more to be the Turkish flag.
Q: Archivable or archiveable or ...?

KARASZI IstvánI have an entity and I would like to describe it as be able to be archived. Is it archivable (which seems ok for me but no wiktionary.org results) or how should I call it? Thank you!

@Kosmonaut: thanks. It's just that I thought that ShreevatsaR nailed it with his answer to collideable vs collidable.
A: Adjective form of collide -- collideable or collidable?

ShreevatsaRShort answer: There's no clear choice; take your pick. Long answer: Neither collideable nor collidable is a word you're likely to find in a dictionary, but in your context using it (one of them) may be exactly the right choice. As for the spelling preference, Wikipedia's detailed article on Amer...

But now I see what you mean, @Kosmonaut, as he's actually asking about archiveable vs archivable vs something else entirely...
I don't know, that makes it sound like it can be extended to any word.
3:07 PM
Turkey (), known officially as the Republic of Turkey (), is a Eurasian country that stretches across the Anatolian
And also the spelling thing
I should say "any verb" rather than "any word"
Oh well… I thought it would show the flag of Turkey. :-)
We discussed fashionable and table and fable earlier with kiamlaluno.
@RegDwight: you old-timers keep bringing up questions from before my time. You guys are so 2010.
3:08 PM
@kiamlaluno: my point is that there are three stars in your avatar. 3-1 = 2.
Oh. :-)
The Sun is the star at the center of the Solar System. It has a diameter of about 1,392,000 km, about 109 times that of Earth, and its mass (about 2 kilograms, 330,000 times that of Earth) accounts for about 99.86% of the total mass of the Solar System. About three quarters of the Sun's mass consists of hydrogen, while the rest is mostly helium. Less than 2% consists of heavier elements, including oxygen, carbon, neon, iron, and others. The Sun's stellar classification, based on spectral class, is G2V, and is informally designated as a yellow dwarf, because its visible radiatio...
I will not split hairs saying that a sun is not simply a star. ;-)
@Robusto: what kept you from registering earlier?
It's not a star?
3:10 PM
Well, it's also a newspaper.
That's The Sun, not a sun.
Hey wait...
I take that when the say "discovered a new sun", they don't mean "discovered a new star".
It's kiamlaluno who started talking about a sun, I was talking about the Sun all along!
Sure they do.
What else could they mean?
There are stars, there are planets, there are satellites, there are comets.
Suns are stars, moons are satellites.
3:13 PM
I give to sun a slightly different meaning; the dictionary I usually read gives to sun a specific meaning, even if a little different.
Astronomical objects are naturally occurring physical entities, associations or structures that current science has demonstrated to exist in outer space. It is all a matter of semantics but the term astronomical object is sometimes used interchangeably with astronomical body. Typically an astronomical body refers to a single, cohesive structure that is bound together by gravity (and sometimes by electromagnetism). Examples include the asteroids, moons, planets and the stars. Astronomical objects are gravitationally bound structures that are associated with a position in space, but may c...
There are star systems but only one Solar System.
"(also Sun) the star around which the earth orbits; any similar star in the universe, with or without planets."
Geez, the "extended objects" column looks scary.
Never heard of some of those.
Look out! A bok globule!
* ducks *
3:16 PM
@RegDwight: What kept me from registering for what?
I also like proplyds. Sounds cute.
Oh ... for E&U.SE?
I registered the day I heard about it.
So you could be soooo 2010, too.
3:17 PM
So ... ignorance.
Also in Italian, "scoperto un nuovo sole" has a different meaning from "scoperta una nuova stella".
Nah ... I was reborn on that day.
You were buried in snow, I wager.
No, I was blissfully unaware of snow, having not yet been reborn.
Luckily I was toilet-trained by Christmas, though ...
Lucky for who?
3:18 PM
That's Salomonic.
I could go for a salmonic bagel right about now.
Ask Robusto.
2 days ago, by Robusto
Moment mal, bitte, ich muss ein Bagel kriegen.
I don't really want a bagel that is two days old...
and that comes from Boston.
Well, it would be deep frozen!
Thus fresh!
3:22 PM
I live in New York — we have the best bagels in the world!
If it isn't still warm then it is too old!
Yeah, yeah, you also have the best seven-whatever, yadda-yadda
Hey ... we have Jews in Boston too, you know.
New Yorkers think they have the only corned beef, the only bagels ...
Them are likes that.
There should be a Yiddish word for that kind of snobbery ...
We also have the only real scotsmen
3:23 PM
Now that is actually true.
Yeah, well you can keep them. Who needs a bunch of Scots in kilts going commando?
We'll be seeing a bunch of Scots in kilts going commando with my wife.
I mean. no. wait.
It seems I can't even go a block in Manhattan without bumping into a group of kilted Scotsmen.
I mean me and my wife will be seeing a bunch of Scots.
3:24 PM
You almost made coffee go up my nose.
Wait what?
English is so freaking tough.
In Russian, we is inclusive.
"we are inclusive"
We've been to the cinema with my wife means, only my wife and myself.
(kidding of course)
3:25 PM
In English, people keep asking me, who is we?
Or, for Kosmonaut: who are we?
THANK you.
English is really lacking in pronouns in certain areas.
I mean, Arabic can keep its gender agreement in 2nd person.
But no 2nd person plural?
Well, no distinct one anyway...
You seem to know quite a lot about Arabic.
I studied Arabic for a couple years.
I actually found Japanese to be easier.
A conscious choice?
Who is "we" anyway? May as well recognize that names are simply arbitrary.
Can't believe the only clip of that on YouTube has subtitles.
3:31 PM
I was working on Arabic phonology and was interested in learning the language a bit.
Thank God for the Finnish subtitles. I don't have sound, and I don't remember much of the dialogue.
(I confirm the Real Bagel™ comes from New York.)
My stepfather had a "learn Arabic in ten years" book. It weighed a ton.
I only remember al-rabaitu-bai-tyn or how ever it is written.
So, @Kosmonaut, in RTL languages, do the percent signs go to the left of the character? How about currency symbols?
The "learn Arabic in 101 days" is smaller.
3:34 PM
@RegDwight: Gah! You can't get the flavor of that scene from subtitles and without sound ... /faints
It has just a page with written "forget it".
I heard good things about "learn Arabic in 1001 nights", too. @kiamlaluno.
@Robusto: I remember the scene just fine. I don't remember all of the dialogue.
I think the % goes to the left... although they are kind of messed up when it comes to numbers
Their numbers are written in the same absolute order as ours
في الرياضيات، النسبة المئوية هي طريقة لتعبير عن عدد على شكل كسر من 100(مقامه يساوي 100) . يرمز للنسبة المئوية عادة بعلامة النسبة المئوية "%". على سبيل المثال 45% (تقرأ خمسة وأربعون بالمائة). تشير إلى استخدام أجزاء المائة في الحساب. فكثيرا مانرى أعدادا مثل 2%، أو 30% أو 75% حيث الرمز % يعني في المائة. وتقرأ هذه الأعداد 2 في المائة، و 30 في المائة و 75 في المائة، حيث يعني التعبير في المائة أجــزاء المائة. فالنسـبة 2% تعنـي جزئين من المائة و30% تعني 30 جـزءًا من المائة و 75% تعني 75 جـزءًا من المائة. والنسب المئوية في حقيقة الأمر كسور اعتيادية فالنسبة 2% هي 2/100 و 30% هي 30/100 و 75% هي ...
1985 is ١٩٨٥ (1985) in Arabic
3:37 PM
When did they change numbers?
Some Arabic countries use the Arabic numerals, some use the Western style.
There are some countries that aren't totally set on that, and you can find telephones with both number systems on them.
How do you call "our" numbers?
It's really confusing because ٦ is 6 and ٥ is 5
and ٠ is 0
Arabic is a mess in some ways. They don't have a regular plural pattern.
You have to memorize every word's plural.
It seems Italian. :-)
Do they have a lot of suppletion for the plurals?
3:41 PM
Well, the main thing to know is that Arabic is based around root consonants.
Most roots are made of three consonants, in a specific order.
So the plurals basically can do any number of crazy things with the vowels, syllable structure, gemination, and whatnot.
So it's not exactly suppletion.
And then they have all those mutually unintelligible dialects, or so I'm told...
You are correct.
The written language is not the spoken language anywhere.
Moroccan Arabic is to Baghdad Arabic as Dutch is to German -- almost
That's madness.
Interesting data points, @Kosmonaut.
And they don't write the short vowels or geminate consonants in written Arabic, even when it is crucial to the meaning!
3:46 PM
How do they deduce the correct meaning, then?
So even if "katab", "kattab" and "kutub" are different words, in Arabic you just write "ktb".
One of them?
kitaab is book actually
@RegDwight: A colleague of mine asked me what you call a "release engineer" in German. I actually have no idea.
Would you have that information?
I have no idea what it's supposed to mean in English.
3:48 PM
katab is the verb for "write"
kattab is the verb for "teach"
All those Senior Software Architects don't make any sense to me.
A release engineer is a person who is responsible for preparing builds, checking it out from version control, "smoke-testing" it, and making sure it's ready to go to QA.
@Kosmonaut: and I thought that quoting out of context was dangerous in English. Arabic seems to take that to a whole 'nother level.
Ignore lapse of agreement in number, etc.
Does he check also if it smells good? :-)
3:50 PM
That would be the sniff-tester, @kiamlaluno.
I thought it was included in the "smoke-testing".
@RegDwight: It was one reason I gave up on Arabic — self-learning is so difficult.
So hard to read the news because I have to intuit each word
I don't know how to actually speak
Is Modern Greek difficult too?
Just painful.
Then again, as a linguist it's okay for you just to know a few bits here and there.
There are so many languages out there, can't focus on just one.
3:53 PM
Well, the learning Arabic part was for fun.
@Robusto: I'm still contemplating.
I would probably go with some kind of -leiter, or leitender whoever.
(I guess it doesn't mean he is contemplating the sun, and the other stars.)
A one-size-fits-all would be Bereichsleiter.
Vielleicht Unterstuetzungsleiter ... something on that order?
Nah, that doesn't sound good.
I'm still struggling with the Release part, actually.
3:57 PM
I remember the German word for "hair drier"; it was a very long word, where in English there were at least 3 words. Maybe it was not simply "hair drier".
And domain isn't really what we're talking about here.
Well, German just has different orthographic rules about compound words.
I would actually say that it wouldn't be a stretch to read "Bereichsleiter Release-Engineering" on a business card.
It's not that their words are actually longer than English.
Haartrockner @kiamlaluno.
Or Föhn.
3:58 PM
It was different; I remember just "caldstuffen", or something similar.
@Robusto: "Bereichsleiter Release-Engineering" is close enough for rock & roll.
I'm just trying to get this dude out of my cube.
Now Robusto is talking with himself.
Wenn ist das nunstruck git und slotermeyer?
The psychology session is over.
Kaltstufe, @kiamlaluno, is the setting where the hair dryer is producing cold wind.
4:00 PM
Achtung alle lookenspeepers!
@RegDwight: See above message to myself.
I have four people talking, I'm trying to set up a dev environment, and keeping up with chat here. I'm very stressed right now.
Those guys' German is surprisingly good.
Then just put Monty Python speaking German on full volume @Robusto.
Everyone will be stressed.
Forget about the dev environment, they've printed all your code on T-shirts already.
Just as I suspected, nobody is sure what to call a release engineer in German, so they just go with... Release Engineer. Can't even be bothered to add a hyphen, <sigh>.
Does (m/w) mean what I think it means?
4:08 PM
Just look at that sentence: "Für den Ausbau unseres umfangreichen Continuous Integration und Continuous Delivery-Systems suchen wir einen erfahrenen Build und Release Engineer."
That ain't German, for little Buddha's sake!
@Kosmonaut: männlich/weiblich.
Holy shit, it does!
Well, it's not something I would shed a tear about, but hilarious??? :P
Job opening: tractor operator (Christian/non-Christian)
It implies that you are allowed to have a job like Release Engineer (m only), which is hilarious.
Haha, I have seen Gabelstaplerfahrer Klaus before :)
4:13 PM
@Kosmonaut: nah, it's all the same problem. They can't come up with a German word for Release Engineer, so they have to add (m/w). If it were a German word, they'd just write Release-IngenieurIn.
Implying that they don't care whether you're ein Ingenieur or eine Ingenieurin.
Haha, so since they are using an English word with no gender marking, they are adding the m/w to make up for it? this keeps amusing me more and more!
Well, have you read my Bundeskanzlerin answer?
I don't think so
A: Are there sentences in languages which use grammatical gender that lose meaning when translated into English?

RegDwightWell, obviously you can't translate many things literally, as you would constantly end up with sentences such as "it gave it to it" in English, where in the source language with genders you have a perfectly clear "she gave it to him". However, there are usually easy ways around this, the most o...

Skip directly to Update 2.
Ah yeah, makes perfect sense.
We can have that happen in English, but when we have a gender-neutral title, we happily don't worry about it.
I don't think I would ever apply for a job that was "software engineer (males/females)"
4:18 PM
Germans, Russians, French, you name it, happily didn't worry about it, either, until a few decades ago everybody started to get crazy about professions having grammatical gender.
I would wonder what the hell was wrong with the company.
Krankenbruder? :)
Well, there is actually Krankenpfleger now.
Darn, Krankenbruder would have been so much more fun.
But the point is, that Pilot and Fahrer worked perfectly, too, until someone decided that that's sexist, and started using PilotIn and FahrerIn etc.
The same is true for Italian: dottore and dottoressa.
4:20 PM
Nobody ever said that you can't be a female Fahrer!
...thereby making the language more sexist. :/
Right... that is funny, because in English we went the opposite direction.
Precisely @Martha.
And also less compact.
Of course, the other language I speak is Hungarian, which doesn't even have gendered pronouns, nevermind grammar.
Because now everybody is looking for "Lehrer und Lehrerinnen" rather than just "Lehrer" (teacher) and everybody is addressing their audience by "Liebe Zuhörerinnen und Zuhörer, liebe Kolleginnen und Kollegen" (Dear female listeners and listeners, dear female colleagues and colleagues)
4:22 PM
Hungarian has no grammar?
No grammatical gender.
As in, no female tables and male chairs.
(Now I know from where fraul-in-o comes.)
I can't imagine calling on the phone in Arabic... they have gender for "you"
All the times where I wasn't sure if I was speaking to a man or a woman...
(Trying with fraul<strong>in</strong>o.)
4:25 PM
Yeah, I remember your comment to that extent.
Lordy. What do Arabic telemarketers do?
Good question.
English had a similar problem with Mrs./Miss.
I think everything is lost in translation. Situations I have experienced in other languages I have a hard time translating into the social constructs of America. This has little to do with language and much to do with the social environment.
@Kosmonaut: Ha! I see that he changed his mind and accepted your answer after all.
4:27 PM
Every sentence requires some kind of cultural annotation.
Which question I mean.
Q: Why does English seem to be such an illogical language

Arjun J RaoI have been learning English since I was 4 years old, so I am pretty good at it. But a lot of newcomers find it to be extremely hard. There seem to be no rules of any sort like there are in other languages that I have learned: First of all, letters are not pronounced the way they are said out ...

Oh well... so much for my extra badge :)
4:28 PM
February 1st
I told you it was hard to get.
You'd have to upvote that other answer fource.
Every so often at work, I get a call from someone wanting to speak to my boss. When I say he's not available, they say "that's ok, we can just speak to you, Mrs. [boss' last name]".
"No, but you can speak to our children!"
It is especially difficult, I think, in EL&U versus one with heavier traffic
Most gold badges (and many silver ones) are incredibly hard to get.
Not that that's necessarily a bad thing. Don't want no Tumbleweeds round here.
What I don't get is, I always answer the phone with "[Company name], Martha speaking". Doesn't that give a big enough clue?
4:30 PM
People call you "Mrs. [boss' last name]" when they call your office???
WTF is wrong with the world?
I hope the question is rhetorical, I could go on for hours.
What specifically is wrong with the world?
A whole lot.
A mythical lot.
4:33 PM
The mythical alot?
Nevermind the alot, what I need to find is a round tuit.
Did we even go with the same picture???
4:34 PM
Can you jinx two of the same photo? The rules aren't clear on this
@Martha: That reminds me of the confusion I faced as a child when I knew a kid's first name but not his last name. We'd be over at his house and his mother would address us and I would not know how to address her. "Mrs. Tommy's mom" didn't seem quite the way to go.
I've never been able to speak an image before
Jan 31 at 16:40, by RegDwight
That's "fastest gun in the West", in case anybody's not informed.
I thought it was a reference to shooting your foot off: Foot Got In The Way!
@Kosmonaut: I think someone owes someone a Coke, nonetheless.
Not clear who owes what to whom.
Jan 4 at 17:45, by Kosmonaut
"You all want any coke?" -- "Sure, I'll have a 7up"
4:39 PM
Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! @Kosmonaut: read the comments here and rejoice:
Q: Strunk and White vs "Style: The Basics of Clarity and Gracy" by Williams and Colomb

BrandonI'd like to improve my writing and have been considering getting either The Elements of Style by Strunk and White or Style: The Basics of Clarity and Grace by Williams and Colomb. What are their relative strengths and weaknesses? Why might one be better for me than the other? I'm a graduate st...

Also, @nohat.
Really want to write something — but don't want to get involved in that discussion ever again
The best way to learn how to write is to read what you have written aloud.
The problem is, people confuse writing with typing.
People also confuse writing systems with language.
4:43 PM
They type on and on and when they come to the end of a bloviation, that's a post.
Wouldn't work for me, as my pronunciation is rusty and everything would sound awful.
I doubt your pronunciation is rusty, @RegDwight.
Let's test it @RegDwight. Try saying the following sentence out loud:
Awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful awful.
Your printed words have a very clear accent.
It is. I'd have to live a few weeks in the US or Britain to acclimate.
I'm not fluent in French, either. But when I live in France, I become fluent within a week or so.
Ask me how to order a baguette right now, I wouldn't know.
Ask me when I'm in Paris, no prob.
(By fluent I don't mean I could write a dissertation, only that I am not constantly mistaken for a Russian.)
4:49 PM
Time for me to go have lunch
Lunch? What is this thing called lunch?
Bon appétit!
Ze best Bagels in ze Wereld, I guess.
Have a knish.
Lunch is the meal that comes after elevensies.
My favorite thing about New York. Get a knish on the street corner.
It is proof that New York is probably the most civilized city in North America. That and the presence of taxicabs everywhere.
4:51 PM
Well, I'm not located in the city proper — I can't go to the street corner and get something.
I'm going to the campus dining hall — no knishes there!
It's time for my daily Calabrian class. :-)
Buh bye.
I'll be leaving in a minute, too.
CU. I'm out!
3 hours later…
8:12 PM
Why is the site yelling at me to share my answer on Facebook or Twitter? I resolutely avoid both of those black holes.
9:14 PM
anybody here?
@Martha: I hate 'em too, but I think we've already gone well below the event horizons of both of them now. They're everywhere.
Facebook is a nice way for me to keep in touch with friends and share photos. The main reasons to hate it are things that I have complete ability to avoid.
Twitter on the other hand is just the worst thing ever :)
The only time I use Facebook is when someone wants to friend me or sends me a tell. Then I log on and see a bunch of messages from my friends that remind me I'm not keeping up with all their shenanigans, and I feel guilty.
I just read the news feed when I feel like it, and don't care if I miss anything on there. It's not like it's a personal message to me.
Anyway, I think you can construct your little Facebook world in such a way that it is not awful.
The way a lot of people use it is irritating though.
Some friends I had to just block from my news feed because they post so much crap so often.
9:31 PM
Yeah, but then I actually have to work at it ...
When I'm at home I'm in relaxation/gaming mode.
I usually browse Facebook on my cell phone while I'm waiting around or on the bus or something.
Anyway, I am not arguing that anybody who doesn't really use it is missing out :)
I have a Droid X and even so the screen is too small to do much useful browsing.
I tried to post to ESE over the holidays and found it very cramped.
Also, I like the Swype feature, but it has its drawbacks.
I have never tried the Swype feature
9:41 PM
It's actually pretty fast for most things.
The problem occurs when it guesses at word completion and you're going too fast to notice.
That can be a problem with the non-Swype input method also though.
It's just that you aren't going as fast so you can scrutinize it more easily :)
Also, it's pure crap if you're trying to go off the reservation with names like Dostoevsky or words like "plenitude" ...
Or use curse words
My officemate is Russian and he swears constantly, and I always know if he is IM'ing me from his iPhone because suddenly he will use the word "ducker".
I don't know why but somehow it is relevant that he is Russian.
Haha, that's good.
I also am amused that the taboo words of a language work in such a way that the word "ducker", which would only come up in very rare and specific circumstances, would be used as an autocorrection for "fucker", which is quite common.
These predictive text devices don't ever predict taboo words.
9:50 PM
True. The ratio is probably on the order of 1,000,000,000:1.
It's too risky :)
And I think that's a conservative estimate.
It could literally be that extreme!
oops, time for me to go!
In fact, I can't recall ever hearing the word used or reading it until just now.
10:07 PM
@RegDwight I've seen that alot before. :D
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