TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:22 AM

Hello guys!!

I am interested to know if I can modify the MathML Code of a MathJax code

In another forum the code starts as: <math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" ...> (where ... means "anything you want") but I would like to change it to: <math xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML" ... display="block" >

Is that possible? Thanks!

Because I want to display Math As block, if the code is for example

1\\
2

instead of 1\\2

I think that display="block" should work because math.SE has it but in the forum I am asking it does not have that command

P.S. I am not the mod of the forum but a user so I cannot change it natively

Kurt

1:05 AM

Please have a look to this answer: tex.stackexchange.com/a/469464/16550 I deleted the suspicious html code ...

barbara beeton

2:26 AM

@AlexG -- be careful. the last time there was an ice storm in providence, i slipped on it and got a new hip for christmas, and five weeks in rehab. that was a bit over a year ago, and i'm still using a cane to make my way up hills or across uneven surfaces.

@PauloCereda -- at least they didn't just delete it. that will happen to mine in about a month.

Henri Menke

4:13 AM

2

Michelle

4:32 AM

In this code, \documentclass{minimal}

\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{calc}
\begin{document}

\pagestyle{empty}
\pgfdeclarelayer{background}

\pgfsetlayers{background,main}

\xdefinecolor{darkgreen}{RGB}{175, 193, 36}
\newcounter{cntShader}
\newcounter{cntRoot}
\setcounter{cntShader}{20}
\colorlet{helixcolor}{darkgreen}

\begin{tikzpicture}
\foreach \y in {86,38,15}{
\setcounter{cntShader}{1}
\coordinate (a) at (0,0);
\coordinate (b) at (0:1);
\foreach \x in {1,...,\y}{
\coordinate (c) at ($ (b)!1cm!270:(a) $);

Why was added \pagestyle{empty} ? I've just removed and nothing happened

Also this one \setcounter{cntShader}{20}

I've also notice that this \foreach \y in {86,38,15} can be replaced by \foreach \y in {86,38,9} and makes more sense. Though why the author wrote 15? .And lastly why to write (0:1) instead of (1,0) ? Could someone explain please?

Both (0:1) and (1,0) work the same in the figure.

marmot

5:11 AM

@Michelle I guess such questions can really only be answered by the author. Note, however, that the minimal document class is not necessarily a good choice. And yes, (0:1) and (1,0) are equivalent. The first one is polar and the second one cartesian coordinates.

@CarLaTeX Buon giorno! You get up very early!

CarLaTeX

@marmot Unfortunately I'm obliged today, I have to take my mother for a medical examination

marmot

@CarLaTeX OK, I hope she is or at least will be fine!

CarLaTeX

@marmot I hope the same, thanks :)

marmot

@CarLaTeX Somehow the LaTeX site and the chat are really dominated by Europeans. Now it is 9:25 in California, and not many are around....

CarLaTeX

5:26 AM

@marmot We should compare the total numbers of inhabitants per time zone :):):) I think in Germany there is the highest ratio LaTeX users/inhabitants

marmot

@CarLaTeX I think so, too. (I can sort of understand why it is not too popular in Asian and Arabic countries, but TeX was invented in the US, so why are there not more US based users around. Given that the population is 4 times what it is in Germany, you may expect 4 times as many TeX users, but this seems not to be the case.)

CarLaTeX

@marmot I think we (European) have a distort vision of the US. The think only about NY or LA, whereas there are more than 40 States between where they think the earth is flat or similar things

marmot

@CarLaTeX Yes, indeed. My department is very diverse, people from Taiwan, China, India, Russia, Ukraine, Italy, France, Germany and many other places in the world. You do not find such things in Europe. But yes, if you drive 50 kilometers in the "wrong" direction, things are very different, and if you drive a few hundred kilometers you will see asdvertizements saying that evolution theory is wrong. US is a place with extreme contrasts.

CarLaTeX

@marmot I friend of mine, who lived in Boston, moved to Georgia for work but he run away after a couple of years (his wife is black, you can imagine). He didn't want to grow her daughters where they think the only career for a woman is to marry at 18 and make lots of children.

@marmot Btw, in the town where they lived all the people were churchy, but he have never seen such an amount of sex shops anywhere else!

marmot

5:43 AM

@CarLaTeX Sure, there are many such stores. That's really sad. (To be fair, there are also regions in Europe which are not too open to people who look different from the majority.)

CarLaTeX

@marmot Yes, unfortunately racism is growing everywhere, due to political conveniences

marmot

@CarLaTeX I guess it goes both ways. Those politician get elected because they say what certain people want to hear.

CarLaTeX

@marmot Also this, you're right

marmot

@CarLaTeX I hope that this trend will get reversed some time soon. Now we have BREXIT, what next?

CarLaTeX

@marmot I think the EU won't survive the Brexit, every country will want to do what UK did

marmot

5:51 AM

@CarLaTeX Not sure I agree. Might be that the consequences will show very soon, so others may think twice.

CarLaTeX

@marmot I think in the long run there will be bad consequences only for EU, UK will get the advantage not to be bound by European laws

marmot

@CarLaTeX I don't know. You seem to imply that the EU does bring serious disadvantages to its members. I think the advantages overwhelm the disadvantages.

CarLaTeX

@marmot Let's go back to this topic in ten years' time :)

marmot

@CarLaTeX OK, deal. ;-)

CarLaTeX

@marmot :)

@marmot I have to go now, bye!

marmot

5:57 AM

@CarLaTeX Good luck!

CarLaTeX

@marmot thanks

AlexG

6:14 AM

@barbarabeeton Oh my, I remember you telling this a year ago. I assumed you would have revovered completely...

Paulo Cereda

6:59 AM

@Michelle hi miss ice cream!

@barbarabeeton they actually deleted my account (including all mail and contacts) and created a new one in other domain. Thankfully I backed up everything for this exact reason. :) Nowadays universities are relying on Google G-suite which is pretty much Gmail for companies...

Paulo Cereda

8:05 AM

@samcarter looks excellent!

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX you think everyone will think wrecking your local economy and inciting social unrest will be a good idea and want to try?

Skillmon

@DavidCarlisle Some will, certainly. There always are people who want to see the world burn.

Paulo Cereda

Hm I need chocolate

Skillmon

@PauloCereda I just had breakfast, so no need for that.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh breakfast

I woke up very early

Skillmon

8:17 AM

@PauloCereda but I wish you good luck. I know as a duck you can't just go into supermarket and buy some.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh stealth ducks

Skillmon

@PauloCereda it's after 9am here...

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon 6AM. :)

And I woke up 4:30

Skillmon

@PauloCereda sometimes I do the same. Then I move my living corpse to my daughter's bedroom and calm her down. Most likely I'll fall asleep in her room again.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon oh

Skillmon

8:23 AM

@PauloCereda that's fine, we have sleeping couch in her room for those cases.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon ooh it's a good idea!

Skillmon

@PauloCereda and a bad one, as well, because we therefore sleep in her room to often and she doesn't get used to sleeping alone very well (she's 1 and a half).

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon oh I see, there are advantages and disadvantages on this approach. But I do believe she will eventually get used to sleeping alone, give her some time. :)

@Skillmon and give her a rabbit puppet. :)

Skillmon

@PauloCereda we do. It still requires a lot of strength from us (I'm very tired and would like to sleep right now, but instead I'll go have a shower and move my now no longer living corpse (feels like a body again) to university).

@PauloCereda she's more into teddy bears.

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon oh

@Skillmon ooh bears

Skillmon

8:29 AM

@PauloCereda off for a shower!

Paulo Cereda

@Skillmon have a great day, mr. rabbit!

Paulo Cereda

9:46 AM

ooh a koala

samcarter

@PauloCereda Thanks for the feedback! I posted the dvisvgm arara rule it in the answer tex.stackexchange.com/a/469430/36296 so that people can find it.

Paulo Cereda

@samcarter thank you!

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle The UK has the former colonies, I don't think it will suffer too much in the long run from the Brexit. For other countries the question is different

David Purton

10:07 AM

@PauloCereda You mean me?

I thought it was time I upgraded from the generic avatar

And I live in the same city as the namesake of the tikzling koala.

Paulo Cereda

@DavidPurton very nice avatar! :)

2

Ulrike Fischer

10:58 AM

@CarLaTeX I doubt it. E.g. I remember how costly it was to phone when one were abroad. Do you really want to get rid of the EU laws that changed this?

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer They could choose which law apply and which not

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX people were told that we could keep all the laws that meant that the EU supported regional regeneration, science funding, easy trade access, and drop all laws that meant we had to pay for anything, but for some unexplained reason the negotiators didn't manage to agree such a deal.

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle As I told marmot, let's talk about this topic in 10 years' time :)

Paulo Cereda

11:24 AM

It's quite expensive for me to go to Europe. At least I do not worry about money exchange and free borders. Now I am really concerned on how to go to the UK to annoy @DavidCarlisle in person when I need to get me some GBP wingwings...

Ulrike Fischer

@CarLaTeX sorry but if you make business across borders it is a horror if every country would decide for each own which of the rules it applies or not - for every country you would have to investigate anew how to handle it. SEPA, unified tax rules and other regulations makes life really easier - I know that.

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer Of course, but I don't think this things will disapper with Brexit

Paulo Cereda

They are not wrong.

Tweeted by _youhadonejob1 on January 10, 2019 at 11:25 AM

I lol'ed.

Skillmon

11:43 AM

@PauloCereda thanks, you too!

Ulrike Fischer

@CarLaTeX some of them will. Some weeks ago I had to spent an hour trying to figure out how to handle the VAT for a bill to customer in norway (which is not in the EU) and naturally all sorts of things were slightly different. After the brexit everyone wanting to sell something in the UK will have to check if some special rules apply.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@DavidCarlisle The EU is mean.

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer Yes, in the short run there will be problems, but in the long run everybody will be accostumed to new rules. At this point the UK will take advantage of being quicker in its decisions compared to the UE. I don't see big threats for the UK, I see a big threat for the EU.

Sebastiano

1:23 PM

@DavidCarlisle Thank you for your comment. I have thinked that my code was good. It is very nice to understand the English language. In pratice I have not understood the request of the OP: I have deleted my answer. Good afternoon and always thank you.

@TeXnician Good afternoon and good work.

David Carlisle

1:34 PM

@Sebastiano If you didn't understand the question how could you answer it? but even then surely you noticed that half of the equation in your answer was off the page to the right of the equation number?

3

Ulrike Fischer

2:32 PM

@DavidCarlisle Can I blame you?

! Undefined control sequence.
l.90 \catcode\z

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{fontspec}
%\makeatletter
\DeclareUnicodeEncoding{nobang}{
 \input{tuenc.def}
 \UndeclareSymbol\textinterrobang
}

\begin{document}

blub
\end{document}

barbara beeton

@Michelle -- since no one has answered ... \pagestyle{empty} in most document classes omits running heads and footers, so if the output is very short, it can be converted effectively to a small .png file for posting as an example. otherwise, most converters will include the whole page, which takes up a ridiculously unnecessary amount of real estate on a site like this one.

Skillmon

@UlrikeFischer would be \zz if it were @DavidCarlisle's fault.

Ulrike Fischer

@Skillmon I blame him for all z-commands ;-) (and currently I would get my cider ;-)).

barbara beeton

@marmot -- when it's 21:00 in california, it's midnight in rhode island, and i, for one, am tucked in so that i can maybe be awake at 07:00 to get to the office by 08:00.

Faheem Mitha

@barbarabeeton Offices start early in the US.

It's not so early everywhere.

barbara beeton

2:44 PM

@Skillmon -- but stuffed bunnies are nice too. (i have one, so i can say this with authority. this is along with several teddy bears and other stuffed critters. i'm a sucker for stuffed toys.)

Faheem Mitha

@marmot Germans like Tech stuff.

That also includes TeX stuff.

The number of active Debian Developers in the US and Germany are comparable, for example.

Skillmon

@barbarabeeton my other daughter has a rabbit.

marmot

@barbarabeeton Yes, I know. But also at 4pm or 6pm California time the chat is already pretty empty, and this corresponds to 7pm or 9pm on the east coast.

barbara beeton

3:23 PM

@marmot -- well, 7pm is often dinner time. and i try to tuck in about 9pm so that it won't be such a rude shock when the radio turns on at 6am. (maybe i should change the station. the news these days is always a rude shock. some classical music might be an improvement.)

marmot

@barbarabeeton Yes, that's all true. But if there were a bunch of users on the east coast, some more in the midwest and so on on chat, there was some chat activity. Also in Europe people have dinner, but there are so many that there is always someone around.

@FaheemMitha In other countries people like Tech stuff, too. But there are not many, say, Japanese TeX users.

Faheem Mitha

@marmot Germans like it more, possibly. Also, Germans speak English better.

Alan Munn

3:41 PM

@marmot I think @FaheemMitha has a good point about English. I suspect there are actually quite a lot of Japanese TeX users, but we don't see them so much because of English. Especially in the chat. One of the main TeX Live development team is Japanese, as are two of the main developers of TeXShop, for example.

marmot

4:03 PM

@AlanMunn Yes, but there is also this analysis according to which the main activity seems to be when Europeans are awake. What I want to say is that it is not only the chat.

Alan Munn

4:14 PM

@marmot I see. That graph is quite striking for sure. And it's true that the majority of the top users on the site are in Europe.

marmot

@AlanMunn Seems like it. (LaTeX is used a lot by students, and in most part of Europe there are tuitions so there are more students, I think. And once they have been exposed to LaTeX, they may continue using it even if they leave academia.)

Alan Munn

@marmot I think that the corporate nature of US universities (even public ones) also promotes making deals with e.g. Microsoft which creates captive audiences for software.

marmot

@AlanMunn Yes. This is the sad truth. (Did you ever have to use Slate or canvas?)

Alan Munn

@marmot No, we used a system called Angel for a while and then moved to D2L. Before that I just made my own class web pages.

marmot

@AlanMunn We had EEE and switched to canvas. I'd love being allowed writing my own web site...

Alan Munn

4:29 PM

@marmot I must say that despite the clicking interfaces, the content management systems are still less work than rolling your own.

I think Will said the same thing earlier.

@marmot It's kind of the same reason we stay with the Mac. I can't really be bothered to deal with Linux. Macs just work.

marmot

@AlanMunn I was happily using Linux for many years but unfortunately there are moments in which you really need to work with word documents and the like. And unfortunately open office screws things up. Normally I wouldn't care but some documents are important as they may influence the fates of others, so I switched to Mac. And I am rather happy with it. It is also easier to get internet and so on in some places where the IT are enthusiastic about Microsoft.

Alan Munn

@marmot Yes, that's also a concern. I also rarely use Word, although I still have plenty of use for Excel, and the open office versions of these rarely do the job. And since most of my colleagues use Word I still need to be able to have it available.

marmot

@AlanMunn I try to avoid using these. But it can happen that you have to jump in for someone else to, say, give a keynote presentation, so you need to have a Mac. (Luckily Microsoft is not at all popular among my colleagues.)

Alan Munn

@marmot I never caught on to Keynote. I went straight from Powerpoint to Beamer.

marmot

4:44 PM

@AlanMunn I use always beamer and keynote only if I have to jump in, but never really wrote a presentation with keynote. I refuse to use powerpoint.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer no

Alan Munn

@marmot Well there are some situations in which Powerpoint is unavoidable, like when your co-author is also your spouse. :)

StrongBad

@AlanMunn you need to chose your spouse better. I thought everyone included a thou shall not use MS vow.

7

Alan Munn

5:01 PM

@StrongBad Well we've been together a lot longer than I've been using LaTeX...

Paulo Cereda

Oct 4 '11 at 21:13, by Paulo Cereda

So this friend of mine was in a TCS conference. He saw a girl approaching, came closer to her and said, "Do you like using LaTeX?". She punched him in the face, said "Idiot!" and walked away. He was like, "Oh boy, another MS Word user..."

marmot

@AlanMunn My spouse was the one who persuaded me to switch to Mac. ;-)

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle github.com/latex3/latex2e/commit/2df639

Harald Hanche-Olsen

I am getting bad spacing before big delimiters when using Libertinus. Blame the font, or blame luatex?

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{luatex85,fontspec,unicode-math}
\setmainfont{Libertinus Serif}
\setmathfont{Libertinus Math}
\begin{document}
$f(x)=f\bigl(x(t)\bigr)$ –
$\lvert\int_a^bf(t)\,dt\rvert$ –
$\Bigl\lvert\int_a^bf(t)\,dt\Bigr\rvert$
\end{document}

marmot

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Blame @DavidCarlisle always is an option.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

5:13 PM

@marmot That goes without saying. But there are so many other blameworthy people around!

marmot

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, with emphasis on "people" (rather than flies, ducks and marmots ;-)

@UlrikeFischer is now leading, and far ahead of @DavidCarlisle ;-)

Alan Munn

Really well written software warns you about things you didn't even think about. Thanks biblatex: Verify postnote placement on input line 185.

Jonas Stein

Which repository is the right one, if I want to test my PDF created by LaTeX? github.com/verapdf

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn hmmm

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda I had a postnote in a citation with more than one cite key, which is incoherent, but I hadn't noticed it. biblatex did.

Paulo Cereda

5:21 PM

@AlanMunn ooh smart tools with no bird references

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda You're not the only game in town. Or are you going to start a campaign to rename biblatex to something avian? And given that the beaver is the Canadian national animal I'm a fan of biber.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn not even start a campaign, I am going to kickstart it and get money for ice cream and other candy-related things. :)

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda Just be sure to optimize your lot placement.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn :)

@AlanMunn maybe there will be a project of mine with no avian references...

/wink wink

Harald Hanche-Olsen

The same test as above works fine with STIX Two. So it's either the font, or luatex gets to share blame with the font. Wonder how hard it is to patch my way out of the problem with a bit of lua code? (@UlrikeFischer)

Alan Munn

5:25 PM

@PauloCereda Your malware project jararaca?

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn ooh sucuri

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda (which evilly contains an arara)

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn OMG

@AlanMunn you linguists are awesome

Ulrike Fischer

@HaraldHanche-Olsen normally it is not so difficult. See e.g. tex.stackexchange.com/a/385117/2388

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn wait a minute... do you imply the snake ate my parrot?!

You are mean

@DavidCarlisle ^^

Harald Hanche-Olsen

5:33 PM

@UlrikeFischer Thanks, I know that one well :-) but here I guess I need to play with kerning tables instead. Or something like that. I suppose I can look in fontdata.characters[whatever] to see if there is anything relevant, though.

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda a propos snakes ^^^

Paulo Cereda

5:52 PM

@UlrikeFischer ooh

Alan Munn

6:03 PM

@PauloCereda They don't call it malware for nothing.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn oh :(

barbara beeton

@marmot -- in 2013, the tug meeting was in tokyo, and it was very well attended! (see the participants list linked from here if you want evidence.) lots of interesting stuff being done there. i agree with @AlanMunn that it's a matter of language comfort that they don't appear here very often.

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn It's historically been really hard to get support for TeX (and really lots of other relevant things, particularly computing-related), at US universities.

Sites like TeX SE are really invaluable. But such help wasn't around in the 1990s when I was trying to learn LaTeX. Maybe if it was, I'd know more than I do.

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- and norbert preining, who is the debian packager for tex live also lives in japan, although he's a native austrian, not japanese.

Alan Munn

@FaheemMitha Yes, I would say that's true, outside of particular departments, mainly math and physics (and some linguistics departments). Even in CS I see that most of the CS students only encounter LaTeX if they take my syntax course.

Faheem Mitha

6:05 PM

Or even be a TeX fanatic like some of you folks.

@AlanMunn I was in math. And I didn't really get any help. I think I had a book.

And you teach LaTeX syntax??!! Do tell.

Alan Munn

@FaheemMitha No, I teach human syntax, but I teach some LaTeX to let the students draw trees with forest.

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn Oh, I see. I thought you were doing path-breaking linguistics.

Well, maybe you are.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn ooh los árboles

Faheem Mitha

But I guess not including an academic study of LaTeX.

Paulo Cereda

@FaheemMitha well, my thesis was on rewriting systems, which is somehow close. :)

Faheem Mitha

6:11 PM

@PauloCereda That's nice. CS?

Paulo Cereda

@FaheemMitha Yes. :)

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- i wish they (macs) did "just work". sadly, apple managed to cause my gmail account to be "lost" when i acquired an ipad to join my laptop, and i was forced to get another gmail account, losing my distinctive one along with a lot of accumulated information. very upsetting! i'm going to be installing a new home system very soon, and it will be linux, even though that has its own problems.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Apple Mail is an abomination. I use Postbox. I used to use Eudora until it finally stopped working. It was the best mail client ever.

barbara beeton

@StrongBad -- but what if you acquired your spouse before microsoft and all its spawn existed?

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn I use Thunderbird with HTML turned off. I heard that Mozilla decided to heavily invest on it again, so we might get a newer version in this year.

Alan Munn

6:14 PM

@FaheemMitha I'm not sure that studying the syntax of a macro language written in the late 70s would count as path-breaking linguistics. :)

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn Perhaps not. But I'm fairly fuzzy about what linguists do.

Alan Munn

@FaheemMitha In a nutshell we (or at least most of us) are trying to answer the following three questions: What do you know when you know a language? How did you manage to acquire that knowledge as a child? How is that knowledge used/represented in the mind/brain.

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- the beaver is also the mascot for mit, and appears very prettily on their school rings. but canada also has the loon ... an interesting bird ...

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton That's true. I'm assuming the beaver mascot is comes from the engineering side of MIT, since beavers are great civil engineers. Loons are super cool both in looks and sound.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn ooh complicated stuff

ooh the Canadian goose

StrongBad

6:22 PM

@barbarabeeton and the beaver's name is TIM.

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- i was very happy with mm, and more recently with (al)pine, and can start using them again when my new home system is installed. at the office, i'm forced to use outlook, and hate it! it prevents more than it allows, especially when used remotely.

@PauloCereda -- nope, even in canada it's a "canada goose".

StrongBad

@barbarabeeton I would assume the vow regarding PDP/VAX usage probably would include not using microsoft stuff.

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton ooh geese are very naughty

No girls I talked so far like TeX... :(

Faheem Mitha

@AlanMunn One could ask what you know when you know TeX. :-)

@PauloCereda That's a damn shame. :-)

Paulo Cereda

@FaheemMitha I also have to ask very carefully. :)

StrongBad

6:26 PM

I love that the Canadian 2 dollar coin is a toonie in respect of the Loon.

Faheem Mitha

@PauloCereda Yes, I can see that. You could first ask if they like computers.

barbara beeton

@StrongBad -- well, the first computer i really programmed for was an rca spectra, which was essentially an ibm 360 clone. (the first computer i got my hands on was an ibm 7070. part of the reason for that was that the president(?) of ibm was an alumnus of the university i attended.)

Paulo Cereda

@FaheemMitha That's a good plan, indeed! :)

StrongBad

@barbarabeeton that is all before my time although we still had a pdp-11 running in the lab when I was a grad student in 2000.

Faheem Mitha

@barbarabeeton The news that is coming out of the US, or at least of Washington is increasingly weird. But I've live on the other side of the planet, so at least I can try to ignore it.

Alan Munn

6:29 PM

@StrongBad Yes it's a cute name.

Paulo Cereda

@StrongBad ooh Looney Tunes

They must related

AND THERE ARE RABBITS

Alan Munn

@PauloCereda Wabbits.

barbara beeton

@StrongBad -- when i first got acquainted with computers, the only means of input were punched cards or toggle switches. digital equipment hadn't yet been hatched.

Paulo Cereda

@AlanMunn You almost got there. I was gonna say "duck season"!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer After too much time poking around in the font data, I gave up and opened an issue on github: github.com/libertinus-fonts/libertinus/issues/254

barbara beeton

6:31 PM

@FaheemMitha -- golly, i wish i could say the same. canada is looking better and better. but i'm not sure my husband and i could qualify as desirable immigrants.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton We'll take you gladly. :)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton you could visit me. :)

yo'

@barbarabeeton you can come to the Czech Republic if you wish, our PM is seemingly even wealthier than your president, and similarly unbelievable.

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- would be nice for a visit, but it's really much too warm for me to be comfortable for an extended period. and there are mosquitos. (significant reasons why i'll never move to florida, or even to the georgia coast, where there's an island that i otherwise dearly love.)

@yo' -- prague is certainly beautiful, and the natives are very friendly! but you never taught me how to pronounce the "ř". and besides, it's the current political environment here that i'd want to escape.

yo'

@barbarabeeton yeah, I'm afraid that for better politics, moving to Neverland would be advisable.

barbara beeton

6:44 PM

@WillRobertson -- don't know whether you noticed, but your latest annoucement that got sent to ctan-ann has lost something that looks like it would be interesting.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton Rules out Alaska too I think.

But there are some other very pleasing options. theatlantic.com/international/archive/2011/04/…

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- ah, yes; i think that in alaska, like maine, the mosquito is the state bird. of the options in the article you link, iceland is definitely the most attractive (to me). reykjavik is the cleanest city i have ever visited, and out in the countryside, one can watch geology in action. i would miss the theater scene in providence though. and the former tex group in iceland seems to be moribund.

yo'

7:22 PM

@barbarabeeton well, I'm not even a member of my local TUG :-)

G. Bay

well, I'm not even a member of my local TUG :-)

Faheem Mitha

@barbarabeeton There are certainly far worse places to live than RI.

Khaled Hosny

LuaTeX keeps changing how it handles math italic correction, anyone knows what was the option to bring the old behavior back? github.com/libertinus-fonts/libertinus/issues/254

yo'

7:38 PM

@G.Bay and are you member of some TUG?

G. Bay

nop

yo'

@G.Bay go and change that! :)

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer your fault? :tex.stackexchange.com/questions/469608/…

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I don't think so. It fails with luatex 1.09 and works with 1.07, but with the same fontloader. I can't find in the docu the xadvance field, one would have to ask Marcel where he found it.

David Carlisle

@KhaledHosny sections 7.5.5 and 7.5.6 `\mathitalicmode=0 or 1 and \mathscriptboxmode - 0-3 but neither ever do quite what I hope

Khaled Hosny

7:51 PM

@DavidCarlisle I’m not seeing any difference with that example, or the difference is so small for me to notice :(

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@KhaledHosny I tried with TeXLive 2017. Same result.

David Carlisle

@KhaledHosny as i say whenever I've tried the settings had little or no effect and whenever anyone asks Hans always says the fonts are at fault.... (but I think they are the only settings that are there)

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@KhaledHosny A little better with TeXLive 2016, but not quite right there either.

Khaled Hosny

@DavidCarlisle OK, no hope then. The issue is quite simple, I don’t know why LuaTeX wants to always complicate it. Hans wants fonts to not use italic correction at all, but unless someone is going to pay to me to redo that with the more laborious math cut-ins, I’m sticking with italic correction :).

@HaraldHanche-Olsen Thanks for checking, LuaTeX indeed never behaved exactly the same as XeTeX (or MS Word) when it comes to math italic correction.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@KhaledHosny Okay. So if I want to use the libertinus fonts, I'll have to move to xetex, then. Good to know.

Khaled Hosny

8:05 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen I’m rather lost, I’m open to change the font is the change is simple or can be easily automated, but otherwise I can not afford to manually redo all the italic correction with the other technique.

David Carlisle

@KhaledHosny is it worth asking on luatex list what Hans/Luigi think is supposed to happen?

mickep

@HaraldHanche-Olsen At the moment there is something going on with math spacing in ConTeXt in the lower index of integrals (I sent an email about that earlier today to the list). I guess it is unrelated to this, though.

AndréC

@AlexG What do you think of these answer ? tex.stackexchange.com/a/469611/138900

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@KhaledHosny Right. Myself, I have never even heard of these math cut-ins, so I am not likely to be able to help.

Khaled Hosny

@DavidCarlisle I think I spilled enough (virtual) ink on this issue already (years ago, but it has only gotten worse).

@HaraldHanche-Olsen called also math kerning, see pages 33-34 tiro.com/Articles/mathematical_typesetting.pdf

Ulrike Fischer

8:14 PM

@KhaledHosny I don't have the time now to look, but imho the first question is why it works with the normal delimiter but fails with the larger one.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@KhaledHosny Just the same reference I already found by googling. Started looking at it, already getting the general gist of it. (What a horrible idea, to put a two page spread on each pdf page! It's just about impossible to read on a smallish screen.)

Khaled Hosny

@HaraldHanche-Olsen It was printed as a booklet and I think the PDF was put online as is without re-formatting it.

@UlrikeFischer I don’t have an answer either.

David Carlisle

@KhaledHosny I have sympathy with that viewpoint. It's a pain though, as (if you get luatex+harfbuzz into the default distributions) luatex rather than xetex is going to look increasingly like the first choice for unicode tex, but the math layout is hard to control...

Khaled Hosny

@DavidCarlisle We can rewrite the math layout in lua (no I’m not serious, well I’m half serious).

@DavidCarlisle The think is, I try to avoid any controversial discussions as much as I can (and anything LuaTeX is controversial in my experience), I guess I’m just incapable of taking part of such discussions.

David Carlisle

8:40 PM

@KhaledHosny sorry I feel i may have scarred your experience with tex--xet:-)

Joseph Wright

@DavidCarlisle Sounds about right

samcarter

@JosephWright Out of curiosity: why did it require your manual intervention to delete the post tex.stackexchange.com/review/low-quality-posts/162700 ? Why was it not deleted by the review queue given that all but one reviewer voted to delete?

Michelle

ok, thank you. I was reading the definition of \pgfdeclarelayer{<name>} in the pgf manual but could not understand. This is:
This command declares a layer named <name> for later use. Mainly, this will set up some internal bookkeeping. What does it mean 'set up some internal bookkeeping'? What other words can be used to describe this?

Joseph Wright

8:56 PM

@samcarter No idea, to be honest

marmot

@Michelle The layers define a certain order in which things get drawn. Imagine you have two layers, and lets call them background and foreground. Then the stuff on the background layer will be drawn first and the foreground stuff on top of it.

Ulrike Fischer

@KhaledHosny well the difference is that with \bigl etc a \hbox is involved:

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{Libertinus Serif}
\setmathfont{Libertinus Math}
\begin{document}

$f\mathopen{\char983186}\rule{0.4pt}{8.5pt}\mathclose{\char983187}$

$f\left(\rule{0.4pt}{8.5pt}\right)$

$f \hbox {$\left (\vbox to8.5pt {}\right .$}%
   \rule{0.4pt}{8.5pt}%
   \hbox {$\left.\vbox to8.5pt {}\right)$}$

\end{document}

marmot

@DavidCarlisle Well, you do not have to understand the question to say 42, do you? ;-)

Ulrike Fischer

David Carlisle

@marmot 42 in foot high letters that make an overfull line an inch past the page margin?

marmot

9:01 PM

@DavidCarlisle No, it is the answer to the last of all questions. I do not think that that the last of all questions is "42 in foot high letters that make an overfull line an inch past the page margin?". ;-)

@DavidCarlisle What I want to say is that you can answer any question with 42 (rather than Appendix C).

David Carlisle

@marmot I suppose as you are closely related to the mice you know the question as well as the answer?

marmot

@DavidCarlisle No, I don't. But I know enough to understand that any answer will eventually trigger a follow-up question. So I propose to skip all the iterations and to immediately proceed to the final answer.

Sebastiano

I'm sure my head is in the clouds. But I realized that the user did not want to get out of the margins of the sheet that he set. Good evening both David and @marmot :-)
Sebastiano

@TorbjørnT. Hi, and good evening

Faheem Mitha

So, is .sty a style file or a class file? I'm sure I've asked this before...

Michelle

@marmot is that for layers in general right?

David Carlisle

9:13 PM

@FaheemMitha a package file, class files have .cls extension

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle Thank you.

Michelle

how does that answer the meaning of \pgfdeclarelayer{<name>}?

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle So style file is incorrect terminology?

marmot

@Michelle Yes, you first define certain layers with \pgfeclarelayer and then define an order with \pgfsetlayers. This is explained on p. 1080 of the pgfmanual. (If you overdo it by declaring too many layers, i.e. hundreds of them, some printers may have problems printing the result.)

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha well 1980's terminology, latex2.09 did not distinguish package and class and called them all style files, with .sty extension. In 2e we split the concept into class files and packages but kept the .sty extension as 90% of existing 2.09 style files could be used as 2e packages with little or no change

Faheem Mitha

9:17 PM

@DavidCarlisle So a .sty file should currently be described as a package file?

David Carlisle

@FaheemMitha yes but if you call it a style file nothing bad happens.

Faheem Mitha

@DavidCarlisle Ok. I've used package. Thank you.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle @HaraldHanche-Olsen @KhaledHosny and that (chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/48447861#48447861) means that is the problem we discussed already last year: The boundary between text and math, where luatex doesn't insert the italic correction. See around here chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/42857043#42857043

Khaled Hosny

@DavidCarlisle absolutely not.

David Carlisle

@KhaledHosny :-) I probably gave you a harder time over that than I should have, anyway, but you survived:-)

Canageek

9:20 PM

Is there any easy way to set LaTeX to include lower quality versions of my images when a certain flag is set at the top of the document?

David Carlisle

@Canageek have a hires and lowres directory and set \graphicspath{{highres}} or lowres as required?

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle That would work

David Carlisle

@Canageek that's why I suggested it:-)

Michelle

@marmot I understand what you say but I still don't see how your comments answer my first question (What does it mean 'set up some internal bookkeeping'?)

Khaled Hosny

@DavidCarlisle tex--xet has always been a risk since it was decades old code that was never tested in the real world, and I was prepared to to take that code back.

Joseph Wright

9:22 PM

@KhaledHosny Yeah ...

Canageek

@DavidCarlisle ...Of course, then I have to actually figure out which of the images in my figures folder I'm currently using and which have been removed in the editing process, but that was probably unavoidable

marmot

@Michelle I do not know what you mean by "first question", i.e. I forgot what it was.

Khaled Hosny

@UlrikeFischer I see, but (legacy) TeX applies italic correction here, right?

Michelle

@marmot I mentioned inside the parenthesis, (What does it mean 'set up some internal bookkeeping'?)

marmot

@Michelle Sure, but I forgot the context.

Michelle

9:26 PM

really? :D definition of \pgfdeclarelayer{<name>} in the pgf manual, This is:
This command declares a layer named <name> for later use. Mainly, this will set up some internal bookkeeping. What does it mean 'set up some internal bookkeeping'? What other words can be used to describe this?

marmot

@Michelle Oh, I see. I do not know precisely what is meant by it. It might just mean that you give the layers a name that you can use. (I guess it is not really important to understand what the authors thoughts were how this can be used as long as one understands roughly how it works.)

samcarter

@Michelle Imagine doing your paperwork. \pgfdeclarelayer{<name>} is like taking out a new ring binder and writing some name on it. Later on you can use it to sort the paper work into it. Without \pgfdeclarelayer the ring binder would not exist and you couldn't use it.

Michelle

@samcarter oh ok got it, thank you so much ^^

yo'

@Michelle Ignore the slightly meaningless sentence. There are two things: (1) It's easier to code the package if you know available layer names. (2) It prevents you as the user from typos.

David Carlisle

@Michelle "in case this is an english language question, "bookkeeping" here doesn't refer to books but to accountancy, it's like saying you can need to do some "internal bookeeping" before you buy something, meaning checking your accounts and moving money between accounts, the details of which are not interesting, before you can do the main transaction.

Michelle

9:41 PM

@yo' not sure that I understand but thank you.

Faheem Mitha

So, I used this bit of code to overwrite a bit of unwanted stuff in a PDF file with white.

> \node(char)[draw, fill=white, shape=rectangle, minimum width=2.5cm, minimum height=2.5cm] at (14, 2.5){};

This works, except I don't want the outline. Can someone tell me how to get rid of it?

Michelle

@DavidCarlisle I see, thanks.

CarLaTeX

@FaheemMitha Option inner sep=0pt?

yo'

@FaheemMitha remove draw option altogether

Faheem Mitha

@yo' Oh, would it still blank out the inner part with white? Trying now.

samcarter

9:46 PM

@FaheemMitha Be aware that if you distribute the pdf, people can still access the unwanted stuff below

Faheem Mitha

@CarLaTeX Ok, thank you.

yo'

@FaheemMitha sure, draw and fill are independent

Faheem Mitha

@samcarter Yes, I'm aware, thank you. I'm not going to distribute it. Just print it out.

@yo' Excellent. That works, thank you. I like simple solutions.

If I want the same figure/shape in multiple pages of a PDF, I should put it in the environment or something, right?

yo'

@FaheemMitha I usually abuse the headers

Faheem Mitha

Sorry, that should have read - all pages.

@yo' Those poor headers.

yo'

9:49 PM

@FaheemMitha yep. Poor, exploited and helpful!

CarLaTeX

@FaheemMitha I think I didn't understand your question, if you simply don't want the black border, just leave out draw as yo' said

Faheem Mitha

@CarLaTeX Ok.

Harald Hanche-Olsen

Aug 30 '18 at 17:47, by David Carlisle

@HaraldHanche-Olsen deja vu is normal here, don't worry:-)

Faheem Mitha

This appears to be the same question:

16

Q: Tikzpicture on every page

How can I include a tikzpicture on every page? I would like to create a complicated document template (page should be framed, and have a table to hold document information both in the header and footer). I was thinking of using something like: \begin{tikzpicture}[remember picture,overlay] % ...

tikz-pgf

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer So since I don't usually put in those \bigl…\bigr by hand anyway, but use `\DeclarePairedDelimiter anyhow, I can do this …

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{mathtools,luatex85,fontspec,unicode-math}
\setmainfont{Libertinus Serif}
\setmathfont{Libertinus Math}
\DeclarePairedDelimiter\parentheses()
\newcommand\parens[2][]{%
  \ifstrempty{#1}{(#2)}{\Uchar"200B\parentheses[#1]{#2\Uchar"200B}}}
\begin{document}
$f\parens{x}=f\parens[\big]{x(t)}$
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer That works for me. @KhaledHosny

Ulrike Fischer

10:05 PM

@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes, but I don't like the idea to inject chars (even if invisible). We actually rejected that idea as the space finds its way in the pdf. Imho the correct solution is to redefine \bigl etc so that they use with luatex \Uleft:

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{Libertinus Serif}
\setmathfont{Libertinus Math}
\begin{document}


$f(x)=f\bigl(x(t)\bigr)$ –

$f(x)=f\Uleft height 5pt depth 5pt axis \Udelimiter "0 "0 "000028
       x(t)
       \Uright height 5pt depth 5pt axis \Udelimiter "0 "0 "000029
$

\end{document}

Harald Hanche-Olsen

10:30 PM

@UlrikeFischer Hmm, interesting. I find \Udelimiter 0 0 `( a bit more readable, though. It's not clear to me what the axis keyword does, though: The luatex manual treats it as self-explanatory.

Ulrike Fischer

@HaraldHanche-Olsen axis seems to center the delimiter on the axis, and I simply copied the numbers from the manual. The main problem is that they must be paired, so you can't replace a single \bigl directly.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer bigl is built with a paired \left and \right so defining it with a paired Uleft and uright should be the same, shouldn't it?

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I don't know how to inject the equivalent of \right. without changing the spacing.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer can't you use \Uright. (I must admit not read that bit of the luatex manual recently

Ulrike Fischer

10:48 PM

@DavidCarlisle the spacing isn't right:

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\begin{document}

\renewcommand\bigl[1]{%
\Uleft height 5pt depth 5pt axis \Udelimiter "0 "0 `#1
\Uright height 0pt depth 0pt .}

$f\bigl(x$
\end{document}

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer \n@space ? ie \nulldelimiterspace=0pt

\def\big#1{\leavevmode@ifvmode
   {\hbox{$\left#1\vbox to8.5\p@{}\right.\n@space$}}}

@UlrikeFischer ^^

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle Still to much space (but less). I tried to understand what context is doing here, and I suspect that it checks for open fences at the end of the math and then closes them.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer yes I just tried, what is the space? seems wrong...

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer It didn't look that way to me at first (from the picture in the luatex manual), but now it dawned on me that it means height and depth are measured from the math axis instead of the base line. This makes sense to me. I'm not too concerned about the problem with null delimiters myself, though I can see it gets in the way of a general solution.

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer oh it's \thinmuskip

Ulrike Fischer

10:57 PM

@DavidCarlisle yes, after all one has a closing delimiter here and so the space you would get after such a delimiter.

David Carlisle

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\begin{document}
\showoutput
\renewcommand\bigl[1]{%
\Uleft height 5pt depth 5pt axis \Udelimiter "0 "0 `#1
\Uright height 0pt depth 0pt .\nulldelimiterspace=0pt \mkern-\thinmuskip{} }

$f\bigl(x\showlists$
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer ^^ ?

Harald Hanche-Olsen

@UlrikeFischer Uh, forget what I said about null delimiters. I wasn't thinking. Need to go to bed.

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle spacing looks ok. But perhaps we should ask why there isn't (or if there is) a \Uleft variant which doesn't complain about a missing \Uright.

David Carlisle

11:13 PM

@UlrikeFischer or why luatex is adding thinmuskip there at all

@UlrikeFischer oh hang on you defined bigl not big, let me adjust...

Ulrike Fischer

@DavidCarlisle I managed to get a nice error message:

! I can't go on meeting you like this.

egreg

@DavidCarlisle Consider

$X{\nulldelimiterspace=0pt\left.\right.}Y$

\nulldelimiterspace=0pt $X{\left.\right.}Y$

\bye

You can't change \nulldelimiterspace in a group inside a formula, because the value used will be the one valid at the end of the formula.

@UlrikeFischer Once I got This can't happen

David Carlisle

@egreg yes what I just realised was that @UlrikeFischer had dropped the hbox and nested math list so:

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\begin{document}
\makeatletter
\showoutput
\renewcommand\big[1]{%
{\hbox{$\Uleft height 5pt depth 5pt axis \Udelimiter "0 "0 `#1
\Uright height 0pt depth 0pt .\nulldelimiterspace=0pt \mathsurround=0pt $}}}


$f\bigl(x\showlists$
\end{document}

Ulrike Fischer

11:30 PM

@DavidCarlisle well yes, that was the whole point as with the \hbox the italic correction between the f and the ( is missing:

\documentclass[a5paper]{article}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{unicode-math}
\setmainfont{Libertinus Serif}
\setmathfont{Libertinus Math}
\begin{document}

\renewcommand\big[1]{%
{\hbox{$\Uleft height 5pt depth 5pt axis \Udelimiter "0 "0 `#1
\Uright height 0pt depth 0pt .\nulldelimiterspace=0pt \mathsurround=0pt $}}}


$f\bigl(x\showlists$
\end{document}

David Carlisle

@UlrikeFischer there is that but....

@UlrikeFischer OK in that case you probably need the -thinmuskip and -nulldelimiterspace, as if you can't make a nested hbox you can't set it to 0pt

Sebastiano

11:54 PM

@Sigur Hi, and thank you for all.

Sigur

@Sebastiano, hi

Sebastiano

@Sigur For a few months now, with a lot of sincerity of heart, I have been receiving continuous attacks from "haters", I think that's how you write it in English.

Sigur

@Sebastiano, where are u from?

Sebastiano

@Kurt Hi, Kurt.

@Sigur From Sicily (Italy)

Sigur

@Sebastiano, nice.

@Sebastiano, I visited Rome once.

Kurt

11:57 PM

@Sebastiano Hi Sebastiano.

Sebastiano