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12:00 AM
It cut down a lot on worrying about more than 2 or 3 ability scores
But yeah as far as what 5e has done without thinking about it, I definitely feel like at least some of the mechanics they have moved back to a more 3.5 feel,.... Were moved in that direction with only the reason that they don't want people who disliked 4e to stop buying new editions
 
"trying to get as firm of a grasp on ephemeral beings as I can" in the most recent question made me laugh.
5
 
Ben
12:43 AM
[wave]
dangit my joke won't work
 
Don't have those around so much
There did I do it?
The joke was lame enough?
:P
 
Ben
I didn't get it.... So I think that counts for something lol
 
Ah the tags
Don't wave the tags around
There I had to explain it, that counts
 
Ben
12:56 AM
Yeah exactly XD
 
Now I get a hat right?
 
Ben
Lol
My wife is an amputee, so I decided to get her a prosthetic leg for Christmas.
 
See, I was experimenting making a joke so lame that anything after it looks good
 
Ben
It's not her main gift. Just a stocking stuffer.
 
@Ben my God man
What have you done? The experiment is loose now
No telling what it will do now
 
Ben
12:59 AM
It will survive on the groans and confused looks of all those that hate or don't understand its humour
 
It will wreak misery on all those with a sophisticated sense of humor
And all those with a sense of taste
But we'll be fine I guess
I mean, I look like a bug with stupid glasses on I must be safe
 
Ben
Rene Descartes is sitting in a bar, and the barman looks at his empty glass, and asks "Want another?"
Rene says "I think not" and ceases to exist
 
I'm not even sure if it will want that one
Or are you deliberately trying to mutate it at this point?
 
Ben
Well it's off doing it's own thing. I'm just spreading humour
 
Ah well, the bit must die eventually
 
Ben
1:13 AM
Points for sticking with it haha
 
Points for killing it
Exp maybe
 
 
1 hour later…
2:32 AM
Darn, GFB not working with two weapon fighting really changed that warlock/eldritch knight question. Whoops, glad I got prompted to look it up.
@nitsua60 I do, losing concentration as a caster is a royal PITA, been dealing with it since my first cleric.
 
@KorvinStarmast Yeah--I guess I was saying (inartfully) that to me CON isn't big because of its effect on HP, but that CON saves (concentration or effects) tend to be where I find CON important.
 
Amen
@nitsua60 I just found out that my christmas vacation may have been vacated.
The day after christmas I am about 50 50 chance to be at work since other people out of country and major goof up happened. The meeting today was sobering.
Not the first time this ever happened, but it is still sort of annoying. Mrs Starmast is not pleased.
 
@KorvinStarmast Ugh... sorry to hear that.
 
Ben
@KorvinStarmast Oh no! :(
 
2:56 AM
What sour news
X(
 
hey there @TheLostKitten, welcome to the RPG.SE lair :)
 
Hi @Shalvenay
I'm wondering if this is the right place to ask, "What do I do when my players and I disagree on what happened in the game?"
 
Well that's a mess.
 
@TheLostKitten it's not a bad place to start asking, though -- lay your situation on us :)
@Joshua indeed it is, been there before :/
 
This is the right place to workshop the question so it works on the main site anyway
 
3:07 AM
Player 1 claims his char was cursed early on in the game (probably 2017 in real life) and is forbidden to touch or use any magic items. Player 2 vaguely remember it. Players 3 & 4 are like, maybe that happened which would explain why they collect all the magic items. I'm like I don't remember this at all. I would have noted that somewhere and have no notes about it.
 
I'd be willing to take P1 at his word among other reasons because his character sheet is something he tracks. But come on scroll of remove curse already.
 
@TheLostKitten How long has it been since you've played?
 
@TheLostKitten what system are you in BTW?
 
We aim to play every other week, but usually only managed once a month. P1 claims remove curse was tried and that P3's char suffered some ill effect for a long time.
 
So they've played this way for the entirety of 2018.
 
3:14 AM
I remember P3's char had disadvantage on all rolls for a while but that was because he annoyed the local powerful wizard. BTW this is D&D 5E
 
Ben
@TheLostKitten Making the assumption that you're the DM?
 
Super easy (IMO): say "I'm getting a snack. Decide how you-all want this to work going forward and let me know what you come up with."
 
Yes I'm the DM and yes apparently he's been playing this way all year long. I'm more than willing to go with it, I'm just worried we obviously have some communication and/or memory problem.
 
Ugh; I can't imagine as a DM setting up a curse like that, ad a player if remove curse and holy water don't work I'd probably call shenigans.
 
@TheLostKitten One thing I do explicitly to combat this is ask the players, at the beginning of each session, to give the recap of last session. While they do that I'm looking at my notes from the session being described and often have to jot something that they say and I'd not noted. Or I mention something in my notes that they didn't but I think is worth remembering.
(amirite, @Shalvenay?)
 
Ben
3:17 AM
@TheLostKitten Nits has pretty much summed it up. If they want to be cursed, fine. You have no memory of it, so either it didn't happen or you didn't intend for it to be a permanent thing.
 
@nitsua60 nods
 
Yeah I would have at least provided a way to lift the curse
 
I'm assuming the party has levelled up since then.
 
Ben
@nitsua60 Good tip. It can help everyone get an understanding of what happened, everyone is on the same page, and it can help you understand what is/isn't important in the players eyes.
 
Yeah I've been pretty generous with XP and they've gained 7 levels over the course of this year.
 
3:19 AM
Isn't remove curse backfiring the sign of divine wrath?
 
Ben
Magic items != magic spells
 
+7 levels! Dispel magic that curse. It's going to need something like a 2 roll now.
 
Ben
Also magic spells != regular spells. There's a difference in the showmanship.
 
Yes that's what they're all thinking since P1 claims it was tried before.
 
Ben
Have you asked them how they feel about the curse?
They might like it - it adds to their character
 
3:24 AM
Sounds like they need a side-quest to find the actual way to remove the curse =)
 
We had this idea for a cursed ring of anti-magic field. We haven't found another way to make it but we think wish can.
 
I.e. come up with a two-shot side-quest and drop the hook to it in their way any time you're feeling drained on main plot and need a few weeks to recharge =)
 
If it was a problem I think they would have discussed it before now. It only accidentally came up when they were going through the loot of the last boss and I was like the magic bracers do x and P1 was like oh no how much damage do I take for touching them?
 
@nitsua60 well that's making the most off bad situation
 
Yeah I'm already planning the side quest for that.
We're just arguing over who has the bad memory.
 
3:26 AM
TIL:
The blood-vomiting game (Japanese: 吐血の一局, toketsu no ikkyoku) is a famous game of Go of the Edo period of Japan, played on June 27, 1835, between Hon'inbō Jōwa (white) and Akaboshi Intetsu (black). It is noted for the three ghost moves that were allegedly given to Jōwa during the game by ghosts, and for the premature death of the go prodigy Akaboshi Intetsu who died soon after coughing up blood onto the board after the game. Selected moves of the game are shown in diagrams. After continually struggling to gain the post of Meijin, Hon'inbō Jōwa had won the title over rival Inoue Gennan Inseki. The...
 
Oh my god
What the heck am I reading here
 
First of all, thank god for WP being oneboxed. 'Cause otherwise... "worst game ever!"
Who would want to play the "Blood-vomiting game"?
 
I just
I can't understand why this is a thing
Not why someone would die if that but why it became a story centered around a game played over someone's promotion to a post and ghosts giving a guy moves that killed his opponent later......
 
Ben
And I had issues with the Taser Game...
 
Doesn't sound quite so bad in comparison
Maybe doesn't necessarily sound great though
If it involves just tasing people
 
Ben
3:39 AM
4 controllers. last person to press the button after the signal gets tased
Which is just degenerative as after a few rounds if you keep getting tased your motor skills freeze up
 
(Headcanon: ignoring everything @Ben said after "the Taser Game" and assuming it's also the name of a famous Go match. Also from the Edo period of Japan.)
The ear-reddening game (Japanese: 耳赤の一局) is a game of go of the Edo period of Japan, played on September 11, 1846 between Honinbo Shusaku (black) and Inoue Genan Inseki (white). The game is probably Shusaku's most notable game as it contains the "ear-reddening move"—so named when a doctor who had been watching the game took note of Genan as his ears flushed red when Shusaku played the move, indicating he had become upset. Shusaku met Genan Inseki in July 1846 when he returned to Edo after staying in Onomichi for eighteen months. Shusaku was 17 years old and a 4-dan player at the time, while Genan...
Alright, last Go spam:
Throughout history, a number of notable Go games have taken place. == Blood-vomiting game == The blood-vomiting game (Japanese: 吐血の一局) was played during the Edo period of Japan, on June 27, 1835, between Honinbo Jowa (white) and Intetsu Akaboshi (black). It is noted for the three moves that were allegedly given to Jowa during the game by ghosts, and for the premature death of the Go prodigy Intetsu Akaboshi who died after coughing up blood onto the board after the game. == Ear-reddening game == The ear-reddening game (Japanese: 耳赤の一局) was played during the Edo period of Japan, in 1846 between...
 
@Ben technically still better than coughing up blood over months and dying for losing a game of go? Probably?
 
Ben
@trogdor Oh for sure. Lol
 
Not great though
 
 
2 hours later…
Ben
5:27 AM
@V2Blast thanks for the cleanup on the multiple actions answer. One question - why did you edited the quote about "[l]ong [r]ests on [y]our [t]urn?"
 
 
1 hour later…
6:33 AM
@Ben Well, initially I'd just edited the D&D Beyond link in there and fixed the capitalization errors introduced by the Roll20 Compendium, but then I realized Roll20 had the pre-errata version that you quoted and figured including the D&D Beyond link with a quote that didn't match it might be confusing.
But anyway, the linked Roll20 section had capitalization errors compared to the actual rules, so I fixed them but included brackets to indicate that they were different from the linked source.
Probably not the most elegant way to handle it, but I didn't want to edit the updated feature description in without running it by you first
Relevant meta:
12
Q: How to handle incorrect quotations from 3rd party sources

NautArchIn this answer, the quote provided from Roll20 incorrectly capitalizes the "a" in attack. In this situation, should we: Fix the quote so it's correct but leave the citation link Fix the quote so it's correct and link or cite a source that is correct Leave it alone and let downvotes sort out t...

 
Ben
Fair enough :)
 
I'd recommend updating the quote (and linking to D&D Beyond instead due to the caps issues), probably with a note about the wording being changed in recent printings but the change not being noted in errata
(Considering adding such a note is what made me hesitant to just go ahead and make the change without asking first)
 
Ben
Like you mentioned, it's probably not the best way to do it, but from my perspective I probably don't really follow the importance of capitalisation on certain words. (I do it a bit all over the place a lot of the time).
Except Attack v attack. Lol
 
yeah
Found an answer that it might be easy to link to to explain the change, since it also has a timestamped link where Crawford talks about it
6
A: Does an Action Surge grant a second bonus action?

CTWindAs part of the 2018 errata updates to the Player's Handbook, the following sentence quoted in the question: On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and a possible bonus action. Has been updated to this, to remove the confusing language: On your tur...

 
Ben
@V2Blast Honestly, I don't have a twitch account, so that's probably a bit more effort for me (not trying to cop out haha... that sounds bad). If you feel it's worthwhile, I understand your reasoning for it, so go for it:)
@V2Blast Yeah, that's what I linked, wasn't it?
 
6:39 AM
don't need a Twitch account to access a feature description in the SRD
maybe? I mighta missed it
ah, you linked the question in your answer - I just meant that answer by CTWind in particular because it has the timestamp where Crawford talks about the change
 
Ben
@V2Blast Oh right. Yeah, I meant to post the answer link lol
 
7:06 AM
Hello folks!
I'm not sure if it was asked on stack before, so I hope you don't mind me asking it here
Yesterday our group and DM got into argument: our warlock was forbidden to substitute material component for Protection From Evil and Good with his arcane focus
DM's reasoning: material component is consumed, so holy water or powder is a must
Our reasoning: material component doesn't have a cost, arcane focus can be used instead
Can you guys clarify this part of rules for us?
 
The DM is right
https://www.dndbeyond.com/compendium/rules/basic-rules/spellcasting#MaterialM
"If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell."
 
Ben
The rules state that a focus can only be used in place of materials if the materials are not consumed.
Yeah. That. Lol
 
Reiterated by Crawford here: sageadvice.eu/2015/01/15/…
and again regarding that exact spell here: sageadvice.eu/2018/04/09/…
 
Duh
25gp seems rather costly for a level 1 spell
Even Chromatic Orb with material component of 50gp doesn't consume it, neither does Identify with 100gp pearl
 
That would be a great question to ask on the Stack, too!
One of the goals of the Stack Exchange is to become a collection of knowledge, so even though there's an answer elsewhere we like having those answers here too. For example, in case the other sites disappear.
 
7:12 AM
Fair enough
 
Ben
@AntiDrondert The materials cost that much, the spell doesn't consume it every time.
 
(For example, I did exactly that sort of thing here, and answered my own question.)
 
Well, they provide Bless and Commune as an example, but material is not consumed in spells' descriptions
Protection from Evil and Good (PfEaG, horrible) states that holy water or powdered silver and iron are consumed
More over, we have a pricing of holy water, its 25gp, but nowhere does it say how costly does this powder have to be, by all means it can cost as much as 1sp
 
Ben
7:37 AM
The problem is that the spell doesn't state the amount that is consumed. It might be the entire vial or just a sprinkling.
 
Does 5e ever give a clear statement about the purpose of consumed spell materials?
 
It used to be a running gag or something
Also to limit the use of some spells
 
Yes, a common use of reagents in early D&D was to make jokes. A common use of reagents in 4e was to balance rituals against consumable items.
But what's 5e's purpose? Worldbuilding flavor? Jokes? Consumable resource management? Gold sinks?
Forcing roleplay scenes when re-stocking?
 
@BESW Would that be a stackable question or would it be considered a designer reasons question
 
7:46 AM
If the game material has stated a design purpose, it'd probably be passable.
But chances are good people will try to answer with unsupported speculation anyway--which is why this sort of question died in the first place.
 
Right, yeah, speculatively it's intuitive to point out how D&D's supernatural stuff is based on a number of well-known depictions of supernatural stuff, including ideas that magic practitioners use certain steps for doing their magic
Mystic rituals would require certain herbs, chemicals, or animal parts
 
@BESW I think costly components obviously have their cost specified to allow the DM to make them more or less acquirable in terms of game balance, and consuming those helps more with that. Not sure about non-costly consumed components.
 
There's the witches in Macbeth, using eye of newt et al and various magical words in order to perform some witchcraft magic
Clerics and other divine casters are probably based on priests, who often use rosaries and symbols (i.e. focus components) as part of their rituals and blessings (i.e. divine magic)
 
To clarify: in game design, each mechanical element can be looked at in terms of what it does to gameplay. What influence do consumable reagents have on the table-level experience of people the game? Do they add something desirable to the experience, do they prevent something undesirable?
I'm not asking about influences or inspirations.
I'm asking if D&D ever talks about the role of that particular element in making D&D 5e the kind of game it is.
 
Ah ok then I think V2 and Anti hit the nail on the head - to limit spellcasting
 
8:02 AM
Is that stated in the text, or is it inferred?
If it's inferred, what's the support? I'm not familiar with 5e, but I saw the same argument made for 3.5 despite the actual costs of specific spells being completely out of tune with each one's particular perceived/actual power to influence gameplay.
 
Inferred. I think previous editions may have provided more explanation, and it's a tradition from previous editions.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:20 AM
DnD is generally rather poor at providing any sort of reasoning for its decisions. 5e does have some positive exceptions, but spell components are not among those.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:15 AM
as far as I know none of the core rulebooks of editions of D&D have ever explicitly said "and casting this spell costs money because it's powerful and that's a balancer"
 
Some D&D editions give design reasons, especially when giving GMs guidance on how to make custom content.
There's also sometimes sidebars saying "We made [change] in this edition for [reason]." 3.5 had a lot of that.
Of course, being D&D, the reasons are sometimes contradictory or on examination the mechanic doesn't achieve the stated goal.
 
mm. Fair enough
 
 
2 hours later…
12:55 PM
Vanquish Script: A free non-commercial fantasy calligraphic script by Jean-Pierre S. Sullivan.
3
 
1:23 PM
Does anyone have suggestions for a system able to run long-form high-magic fantasy campaigns that is less tactics-focused than D&D, and is not Fate- or PbtA-based?
 
1:45 PM
13th Age is just a tiny bit less tactical than D&D 3.5.
When you say "high-magic fantasy" I assume you mean Western-style kitchen sink pseudo-historical?
Because there's whole genres of urban fantasy like World of Darkness, Blades in the Dark, etc, which are technically high-magic fantasy but... not that.
 
@BESW Interesting. I had thought you guys had said 13th age was very similar to 4e, which seems very tactical.
 
@NautArch 13th Age has its mechanical roots in 3.5, applies design lessons learned from 4e, and incorporates "indie" elements as well.
It's not so wed to strictly measured grids-and-minis combat.
 
@BESW ooh. i really need to look into this more.
 
Strictly speaking it's a d20 System game.
But it's hacked the d20 System engine up and left entire sections on the floor, splicing in elements from other games--like it takes 4e's learning about the usefulness of standardized conditions.
And it uses ranked character-defining phrases that prompt developing backstory during play, instead of a skill system.
 
@BESW I mean a system that supports abundant magic (e.g. no "you can cast a spell about once a month") and that doesn't have an assumption about a level of technology higher than the steam engine baked into it. I don't necessarily need a system with a full setting.
 
1:52 PM
For combat it's less interested in exactly how many feet you are from your target, and is okay with "next to me / near me / way over there."
 
@BESW I"m hijacking acuriosmind, but this sounds very cool. and works well with my inability to draw :)
 
@ACuriousMind There's some powered Gumshoe systems that would work if you want a mystery-solving focus.
Unisystem and Cortex System/Plus have a lot of magical iterations.
...Ars Magica.
 
@BESW I...might want that?
@BESW Nah, I know that one and it's not what I'm looking for. Sadly, it's much easier to say what I'm not looking for than to figure out what I positively want ;)
 
Gumshoe tends to have more modern settings, but it's easily customized. For a high-powered magic game, maybe start with Mutant City Blues; it's probably the version with the most insanely complicated power options--they're just flavored as X-man-style mutations instead of magic.
[rummages]
Oh hey, Lorefinder is a thing. Billed as "Gumshoe does Pathfinder."
 
that is a merger i didn't ever expect to see
 
2:04 PM
You could always fiddle with the Katanas & Trenchcoats setting, but something tells me that's not the kind of game you want either.
Misspent Youth would be totally cool with however much magic you wanted your oppressive dystopia to have.
The mechanics wouldn't care.
 
@BESW I'm a bit confused at the description - it sounds as if it simply adds Gumshoe rules to Pathfinder? I.e. I would be playing standard Pathfinder except that information management uses the Gumshoe rules instead of the usual Pathfinder rules?
 
@ACuriousMind [shrug] I hadn't heard of it until just now, I know as much as you.
...now I'm thinking about hacking InSpectres to be about setting up an adventuring guild franchise.
 
Pathfinder has gotten so weird since 5e came out (not because of, just in terms of time frame).

Every time I look into something for Pathfinder, it's like an alien system.
 
MORE SPELLS
 
2:34 PM
The spheres are the weirdest thing
 
3:07 PM
Regarding the "contact mxyzplk" post, I am wondering if asking something like "I remember a set of free gun rules homebrewed by mxyzplk for pathfinder. Where can I find those?" would serve their purposes and be a valid question.
 
@Sdjz which post?
 
-4
Q: Looking to contact mxyzplk

Anthony GivensIn regards to the post you created explaining the Gunslinger, is it possible you still have a copy of the gun rules you wrote? I would greatly appreciate being able to balance this character. Thank you so much. Please feel free to email me at awgivens@hotmail.com. The site you have referenced ...

 
ah. would that be a 'shopping' question?
i dunno
 
I don't think it's shopping
It's asking to locate a specific product.
honestly, I still feel like it could be a comment and/or meta post.
"This link in this answer doesn't work. how do we fix it?"
 
@goodguy5 A comment like that on the relevant post looks like an even better approach to me than a new question, either in the main site or the meta.
 
3:12 PM
Yeah, the comment notification will get through, right?
 
As long as mxy posted original answer/question being commented on, edited it, or has commented on it before.
 
well, the user has 1 rep, so could only make a meta post.
actually.... do you need rep for meta?
I don't THINK so.
 
;)
 
how did you find that so fast
need 5 rep for meta
 
3:20 PM
that's dumb lol
yea. there's literally no "good" way for that user to get what they want.
Theoretically, they could have posted a better question, but I'm not even sure the tour gives out good information for this case.
 
Jeez, requiring a feat to reduce reload times to a full-round action? Reading through that blog, some of those changes feel rough.
Then again, you get feats a lot easier in Pathfinder, IIRC.
 
@Yuuki every odd level
 
You don't have to choose between them or ASI as well.
 
3.5 I think was level 1 and every multiple of 3
 
yeah, 3e was feats at 1/3 and every 3 thereafter, pathfinder made it every odd level
that doesn't change the fact that pathfinder is still full of awful feat taxes
 
3:31 PM
that's true
I think I found a purpose for vital strike
cannons (or any siege weapon)
 
Vital Strike definitely seems pretty good for gunslingers with mxy's rules.
 
is operating a cannon or other siege weapon strictly a use of the attack action?
 
@Carcer I THINK the actual attack is, but I could be wrong. You could always operate a large sized gun. My buddy is making a character that can wield a huge weapon. 6d6 + 12d6 alpha damage aint bad.
 
wording of d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/siege-engines doesn't seem to suggest that they should not just be considered very large weapons
so yeah, vital strike works
 
Alpha damage has always been a fun thing to conceptualize for me.
Or silly criticals.

Nothing makes everyone think the barbarian is OP more than a 4X multiplier.

Ignoring the fact that you did fine damage (if not mediocre) the previous 10 rounds.

Once in a while, you get off this 50-damage hit.
and suddenly, it's surprised pikachu memes
 
3:57 PM
@goodguy5 I still remember the point in my first 3.5e campaign where the wizard rolled a whole bag of d6s for a Disintegrate.
 
0
Q: Question on the tagging policy on World of Darkness questions

vlazTwo points in the following topic left me a bit confused and I'd like a clarification: Start retagging the WoD questions! (aka "Editors: the Retaggening") First, there's world-of-darkness. Apply this to any questions which are about the World of Darkness line of games and settings in general...

 
4:29 PM
yea. bags of d6 were fun
 
4:42 PM
@Carcer It "works" by adding damage, but it doesn't work because cannons are really complicated and impractical to use
I know this because I was running a naval PF campaign with ships and cannons, and trying to fit the cannons into some coherent scheme of ship-to-ship combat (as in, trying to simplify paizo's horrible mess of naval combat rules) became a really complex logistics problem
 
well, I wouldn't try to keep using and reloading siege weapons. I would fire once with vital strike and then close to fight with anything else.
 
5:00 PM
@goodguy5 Few things are more fun than a high level fireball or flame strike, where you do a bag of d6 damage to all the enemies at once.
 
5:13 PM
Does this edit fix this question such that it can be reopened?
 
@MikeQ oh sure, I didn't mean to imply that it made siege weapons viable - just that I think vital strike should work with them by RAW
 
2
Q: Which combat feats apply when attacking with a ranged siege engine?

MikeQI am trying to build a gunslinger character for a naval warfare Pathfinder campaign. In a nutshell, this character would mostly stay on a boat and fire siege engines at enemy ships. I intend to take the siege gunner gunslinger archetype. The next step is to select feats, but I'm not entirely sure...

 
5:52 PM
@Rubiksmoose I think the question is answerable, but it's definitely difficult to answer as-is.
 
@Rubiksmoose i personally don't think so. My gut is that the only way to make it stackable is to discuss a specific scenario. Otherwise, it's pure opinion.
 
@NautArch I don't necessarily agree that it's pure opinion, but a specific scenario would definitely make the question a lot better.
 
@Xirema How is it not? I can create a scenario where it may be the best move, I can create a scenario where it's not. THere are too many variables without a specific scenario. It depends on the target and their capabilities. It depends on the caster and their capabilities (including known spells, remaining slots), it depends on the other party members, etc.
and where they are in initiative order
 
6:37 PM
Anyone want to hop in here and help NERDmaster out in how to ask/answer questions?
 
seems like you already did all the work @NautArch
 
@goodguy5 yeah, but it's just me :)
and i'm clearly not always right
 
psh. You? wrong? Parish the thought
 
How do I downvote all of Naut's comments in that chat?
 
@Rubiksmoose meanie
 
6:46 PM
@NautArch XD
 
That all being said, their answer on that question keeps getting upvotes and I don't understand why.
Is ignoring a requirement in a question the same thing as a frame challenge?
 
@NautArch Yeah...I'm not sure either. It's just not good at all.
@NautArch Not at all.
 
On rereading I think the answer is probably as good as it can get with only those sources.
But it remains that it doesn't really provide helpful information to the question
 
@Rubiksmoose I voted to delete, but i'll let the stack resolve it. I'm just a little surprised that it's getting upvotes without it hitting any of the question's requirements.
 
6:51 PM
@NautArch I see that case as at least more of a frame challenge for the simple reason that it provides a straightforward answer outside the scope that OP asked about. That seems fine.
The answer we are currently talked about doesn't follow the bounds/framing of the question but also doesn't really provide any useful information outside of it.
So I guess it is a frame challenge, just not a good one?
 
I mean.

The answer is "no. The thing you want doesn't exist. Maybe something else can be tailored to your needs, such as this thing"
 
@Rubiksmoose Okay. Still seems weird. We had asked OP in comments if they wanted magic items and it was left only as spells. I guess I just don't understand what a frame challenge is. I didn't think it was to answer out of scope.
@goodguy5 except we do have answers that shows it does exist.
It's like asking "how can I get my TV to turn off with my remote" and someone answering "Just go up and turn it off directly on the TV"
 
oh, sorry. I thought we were still talking about the shadowdarkbad question
 
@goodguy5 alkthough the blackrazor does seem to be a legit answer
 
@NautArch It still isn't a great frame challenge since it doesn't explain why the new frame including items is compelling or helpful.
 
6:56 PM
@NautArch that just makes them wrong.
 
Which is not required, but certainly helps when selling it.
I did put forward the recommendation to use self-deletion to NERD so maybe in the future they will avail themselves of that.
 
anyone get the new edf5 on ps4?
 
@Rubiksmoose interesting
 
Self-delete and edit can really help if you have a problem and don't have time to fix it and don't want to accumulate downvotes.
@NautArch Sure yeah that meshes with my understanding. Note "sometimes" though.
FCs are hard to pull off well
 
@Rubiksmoose Yeah, I'll remove my comments about that on some of these answers and just downvote to my heart's content
 
7:01 PM
@NautArch Sounds like a good plan.
 
and guess i'll be more careful about pointing out to answerers when they don't consider an aspect stated in a question
 
I do find it useful to point out when an answer is failing to answer the question because many times they don't realize that they haven't because of misreading or misunderstanding the question for example.
 
@Rubiksmoose Hmm, maybe I should have left it. Too late now :)
Good for it to have been there, and good for SSD to have said what he did.
 
Indeed indeed. We are always learning here lol
 
indeed!
 
8:04 PM
I think I wrote about my technique before, but now I have it enshrined as an actual answer: rpg.stackexchange.com/a/137710/42386
 
8:46 PM
Sanity check: Am I misunderstanding, or is the "broken link" at the crux of this question not actually broken?
Oh never mind I was missing mxy's comment
 
8:58 PM
For future reference, that last section of my answer, where I do the "how many >=7 from 6d10" stuff is basically how my probability engine works when asked questions like that. It's not much more complicated than that, at least on a conceptual level.
Everything else is just figuring out ways to filter through the results in the way you want.
 
9:12 PM
what did we decide for questions that have clearly not bothered to read the book or a base level of diligence?
 
Anyone else notice the similarity between new users ben and Ben? (Not to be confused with the other Ben).
 
@goodguy5 depends on the question, but generally valid questions which show no effort are worthy of downvoting.
Unless they have a valid reason to be closed there's no reason to VtC noob or read the book to me questions.
 
There's never a reason to close a question unless there's a valid reason to close it ;P
5
 
@goodguy5 A down vote is the standard award for that case.
"This question does not show any research effort" are the first words that we read when mousing over the down vote button.
 
10:23 PM
@ACuriousMind Look, sometimes you have to super-downvote something.
 
::eye twitches::
 
Ben
10:59 PM
Morning all!
@ACuriousMind I have that too. Usually comes from lack of sleep, and unfortunately if you don't get on top of it quick, it'll hang around for a long time.
 
@Ben No worries, in this case it was just caused by me repressing the urge to protest against @Yuuki's calling a close vote a "super-downvote" ;)
 
Ben
@GreySage Well, Ben was new, at one point, and Ben has been here for ages, but I haven't actually run into them at any point, and so now Ben has come to join the fray and he's certainly a keen one.
@ACuriousMind [Sucks teeth] He's not the only one. Lol
It's not to be used as a "super-downvote", that's the difference though.
Does anyone know the secret behind the Merlin Hat?
I just got three hats overnight. Pizza Hat (3 upvotes on an "competing answer"), Identification Division Hat (Get a Silver Badge), and the Merlin Hat (It's a secret!)
You'd think that once you unlock it they'd tell you the secret?
 
@Ben There's a whole meta question and an associated chat room dedicated to figure them out
(as you can see, the Merlin has been figured out)
 
Ben
@ACuriousMind Ahh, awesome :)
 
11:58 PM
@ACuriousMind hahaha yeah that was kind of what I was trying to say lol
 

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