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6:09 AM
@lephe you're welcome! :)
 
 
2 hours later…
8:30 AM
@Jenayah I believe edit comments in posts should be removed too
 
@TheLethalCarrot duly noted ;)
 
8:56 AM
@TheLethalCarrot oh so you were referring to a particular one, not just in general, missed that ahah
 
Well particular in that one made me think about telling you but I meant in general
 
ok ok
 
9:22 AM
there should be a 30 character limit for comments. if you're gonna put in more, might as well answer the question
 
Long comments are fine, especially when clarifying things and adding links. Is there any particular comment that started you off on this thought?
 
This about the bogle thingy?
 
not really, at least not one i could find easily
 
As for the 30 characters limit, if you include a link that makes for a very short comment... :D
And including links is nice to redirect people to other questions/sources that do not entirely answer the present question, but add extra info
 
The link to the story Id guide is 43 in itself and that's without user id: https://scifi.meta.stackexchange.com/a/9337
 
9:27 AM
i'll allow 43
 
I mean there's already a limit which allows for some decent comments that aren't too long and in the age of welcoming longer comments are encouraged apparently
 
i'll prob need to find an example but some comments look like they are trying to answer the question without the risk of downvotes from all users... only users with enough rep to actually vote on comments
 
Oh sure, no matter what restriction you put on comments people will always answer in them
 
Well there's answering and answering
 
but i guess the bar is somewhat low for voting on comments.
 
9:30 AM
If you think you have the basis of something, that others might not have thought of, but don't want/can't expand on it, better to point said others towards that direction
 
@Hend This exceeds 30 characters.
 
you can remove your comments afterwards if it's not needed anymore
 
i've already allowed for 43 @Edlothiad
 
It also exceeds 43.
 
then i'm not sure what "this" references
 
9:31 AM
Or if you have an out-of-universe answer (like the bogle definition), but think there could be an in-universe one but aren't sure, might as well leave it there rather than an incomplete answer
 
Here's an answer in the comments:
This sounds like The Truman show, Truman, who's in a make believe world but he believes it to be real. He remembers this girl from his past, and starts to redesign her face. And in the end he leaves the set and finds her. The trailer is on youtube. Funnily enough the female character he remembers is also called Sylvia. — Edlothiad 23 hours ago
 
@Jenayah Yup, that's why I did my comment too
 
Another answer in comments:
Given it says "yep comments just as good" I'd say it doesn't matter. — Edlothiad May 7 at 12:52
 
@TheLethalCarrot still FGITW'd you tho :p
 
Apparently another answer in comments:
4th answer in comments:
I don’t think the correspondence with Sirius provides very good evidence that the evidence is “contradictory” as you say. There are dozens of reasons why Sirius may not rely immediately, or may intentionally make it seem to take longer to reply. Regardless if the letters he returns are short, you’ve made a rather big assumption on Sirius’ reply speed when no such evidence exists. As the youth of today might say “maybe he just left Harry on read.” — Edlothiad 2 days ago
@Hend It references the message it links to. See the little arrow on the left, if you tap that it will show you which message it's a reply to.
 
9:36 AM
@Edlothiad are you going to post every "answer in comments" there is? Shouldn't you be wandering on YouTube instead? :D
(jk)
 
@Jenayah These are all my "answers" in comments, although 2-4 are in no way answers.
 
ok
 
I've watched the core youtube I should watch for today.
 
Point being, long comments are fine :P
 
@Edlothiad just kidding ;D
 
9:37 AM
Still have 5 hours where I could potentially be productive ;P
 
HAHAHAHHAHA
 
@Edlothiad should I redirect you to Cracked/TvTropes/XKCD?
 
I added at least 300 characters to my company wiki page.
 
Saved it this time?
 
Although that's just catching back up to all the ones I deleted yesterday
Lol not yet
I will before I go to lunch.
 
9:38 AM
I'd save more often so you don't be a muppet again
 
Nahhhhhhhhhhhhh
Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice shame on you (chrome)
 
@Hend Those should be flagged and deleted in any case.
 
ah
 
@Mithrandir Nope.
 
@TheLethalCarrot ....yes, that's a network-wide policy that you're reminded of every time you go to post a comment.
 
9:48 AM
Depends on case by case, if there are no answers yet and someone doesn't have time for one but wants to post a comment to point others in the right direction that is fine to do so
Deleting only devalues the Q/A
 
Yeah the "network-wide" is also kind of tweaked by the variety of topics covered by the network as a whole
 
It's a fundamental part of the SE network that answers belong in answers, not comments.
2
It tells you that every time you write a comment: "Avoid answering questions in comments."
 
ELL/ELU can have one-liners answers which are perfectly fine (so they could be in a comment), SFF, SO etc... bit more longer, so no comment will really completely answer the question
 
Avoid not never ever ever do it
 
Yeah, I know that
 
9:50 AM
Comments cannot be downvoted, only upvoted, and so you can't have the quality checks that answers have. You cannot edit comments to improve them after 5 minutes. You cannot accept a comment. If you answer in a comment, and the OP says that solved their problem, they may leave the site never to return and leave an answer unaccepted, if the commenter answered with what they had originally posted as a comment.
(^quoting what I said on IPS)
 
You do realise "avoid" means soft policy over anything hard/concrete and so doesn't need to be followed mercilessly, hence why I said it depends on case by case and context
 
To back up my point above, I was thinking of this recent question:
42
Q: Why is there a towel on my toilet seat?

SinsteinI checked in to my hotel in Singapore and the toilet has a towel on its lid. What is the objective of this towel? Is it supposed to be used a foot rug for when I am using the toilet?

 
I'd say it's actually a fairly hard policy that isn't consistently applied.
It's repeated more times than just in the comment placeholder text, e.g. in the help center:
> When shouldn't I comment?
[...]

Answering a question or providing an alternate solution to an existing answer; instead, post an actual answer (or edit to expand an existing one);
 
"It's a bath mat, not to slip when you exit the shower" is a perfectly fin answer which could fit into a comment (but then wouldn't be the appropriate way)
 
always thought it was a way to game the rep system
 
9:53 AM
@Hend How?
You get no rep for comments
 
no downvotes
oh
 
I've written stuff about this several times around the network, e.g. Unanswered questions with answers or partial answers in comments and Please don't write answers in comments
 
Whereas for instance, for this one you could comment "JKR said in an interview that Voldemort think you defy him just by being against him", which is also true but not a full-fledged answer as per SFF
 
The point is blanket refusing them and deleting anything of potential value just because it's in a comment is bad thing. You should decide on a case by case basis and look into the context
3
 
Just because you've written about it doesn't make it a network policy.
It's common place on the main SE site that answers are frequently posted in comments.
It's done lots on this site, when people don't have time, enough information etc.
 
9:56 AM
@Edlothiad I fail to see how anything I said implied that.
 
You're welcome to moderate your site with whatever stringent rules you wish to apply, but you cannot enforce them here.
Everything you've said "It's a network-wide policy" then gone on to provide examples of suggestions, then gone on to say you've written about it in a couple of places.
Seems to follow on imo.
 
if that's not "network wide" i don't know what is
 
I am completely lost as to how saying that I've written about it makes it that I'm saying that if I said it, it must be a network wide policy. No; it's a network-wide policy because that's what's been determined over the years, and is codified in the network-wide help center and the comment placeholder text. I'm also linking to places where I've spent more time explaining this.
2
 
Also, upon reading the IPS Meta post you linked, HDE has a point and not a minor one: IPS answers have real-life consequences. Most SFF ones don't, so a "partial info given in a SFF comment" is waaaaaaay more ok than on IPS.
 
@Hend The most downvoted questoin has 73: scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/180869/…
If that was an answer, you'd have -140 rep. One HNQ answer would make up for that.
Preventing 140 rep is so insignificant it hardly seems like gaming.
 
10:02 AM
@Jenayah Right. That is correct - and that's why IPS takes a much harsher stance on them. SFF doesn't apply the policy nearly as widely. That doesn't change that it's a network-wide policy, but different sites do apply it in different ways.
 
It has "real-life" effects on SO, it rarely gets applied there in my experience.
 
@Mithrandir So answers in comments are fine on SFF?
Thought as much
 
It does, when people notice and flag them.
 
Paha.
Notice? It would be hard not to notice something that occurs on 90% of questions.
 
@TheLethalCarrot No. It means that the policy isn't strictly enforced, which leads to them being more accepted here. That doesn't mean that they're strictly allowed.
There's a difference between "allowed" and "letting it go".
 
10:04 AM
Mountain out of a mole hill. Getting rid of spam quickly is a much more important than answers as comments
Especially partial answers.
 
so SO policies don't apply to SFF? it's linked from the Meta SE
 
@Mithrandir Sure but it's a negligible one in my experience
 
33
Q: Is the official comment policy obsolete, and should we change it?

AarobotHere's what the "comment everywhere" privilege page currently states: When should I comment? Comments are intended to: provide feedback on posts add relevant, but minor, information to posts (if it's a major chunk of information, it should be an answer!) ask for clarification...

i don't know. you guys comment more. i'm just new
 
I don't see how this is an issue to split hairs over
 
If you're letting it go you're generally allowing it implicitly
 
10:05 AM
it just seems odd to me that people would answer in a comment
 
Again, the highest downvoted post has 73 on this site. That's -73 rep. Most answers don't get nearly that many downvotes because you lose 1 rep for downvoting an answer. Checks most people before blindly downvoting. Eitherway a loss of 146 rep, as I said before, is insignificant in the grand scheme of things.
Posting an average answer that hits the HNQ will easily make up for that small blip.
 
@Hend Suppose you know the answer to a question but don't have time to write an answer, do you leave it or do you post a comment so others don't have to repeat all your research?
 
Ooh disappearing stars, interesting.
 
who loses rep for downvoting an answer?
 
The downvoter
And the answerer
 
10:07 AM
The person downvoting loses 1 rep, the person who answered loses 2.
 
@Edlothiad different "real-life consequences", I'd say. SO is related to work (outer lines, I mean), IPS deal with "my brother is on the verge of suicide" situations.
 
@TheLethalCarrot You should just leave it and wait until you can post a full answer.
 
@Mithrandir Well that just means things aren't as helpful as they could be and devalues the site
 
@Edlothiad and i don't see the 73 he was referencing in post
 
(unless that person comes back to write an answer of course)
Which they don't always do
 
10:08 AM
Otherwise, you can be burned by planning on writing an answer, leaving a comment because you don't have time, and then getting FGITW'd by an actual answer. Speaking from experience, as @FuzzyBoots's can attest to ;)
 
@Mithrandir Why when I can write a comment (given it is purely commentary) and allow someone with more time to use the comment and write an answer.
@Mithrandir That's fine. Your fault for commenting
 
@Mithrandir Then don't comment in that case...
 
I've commented plenty of times where other people have taken that and written an answer. Good on them on completing what was merely a thought for me.
Valorum has done it even more times than one would care to count.
 
@Hend that's because you don't yet have the privilege to see down and upvotes, I think
 
@Hend It's the question with the most downvotes on this site, totally unrelated to whatever links you provided.
 
10:09 AM
k
 
As I've said before in this discussion, SFF chooses not to enforce this policy strictly. That doesn't change that it is an actual, applied, network-wide policy.
 
By not enforcing it, this site's moderators have made the decision to allow it.
 
What Ed said and...
In my experience more sites that I've been on don't enforce this policy than do bar the odd user who wants to rule lawyer everything
4
 
@Edlothiad I'd say that's more the community as a whole; if they don't flag them in the first place, then they don't get deleted, so people start to think they're okay, so they proliferate.
 
10:13 AM
And mods are part of the community
 
Yes? I don't think I implied anything to the contrary.
 
Ed said mods allowing it and you said that's more the community implying not mods but meh it's not something I care to explain more than that
Ed says he concurs but is at lunch
 
I think you're reading too much into that ;)
 
"community as a whole" includes mods
but meh. that was how i read it.
 
No I've just seen too much of mods vs community when I've tried to say mods are part of the community to warrant making that comment
 
10:16 AM
@Hend That's how I intended it.
@TheLethalCarrot I'm the last one who'd say that mods aren't part of the community ;)
 
Not saying you would but I've seen users of various experience make a line between them so wanted to be sure
 
Isn't wrt usually meant for "with regards to"?
 
Oh maybe
I've seen both though
 
My world is falling apart D:
 
10:24 AM
Wrt.
 
i've used it as "with respect to"
 
Wrt wrt I mean
 
Hey TLC out of curiosity, how do you choose which posts to edit?
You mentioned a list some time ago, but how do you look for them?
 
WRT old ones?
 
10:26 AM
Wrt those, yeah
 
Cleaning up tags that shouldn't be there but only doing one every now and then
In that case should not be on questions
And whilst I bumped it I try to clean up other things on the post too
 
Ok ok
So you basically browse questions looking for mistagged ones?
 
At the moment I'm only really looking at fantasy and combined with story id
 
Quite a list apparently
 
@TheLethalCarrot eh, i think this was debated on meta and found to be fine
 
10:30 AM
> Used for questions on the fantasy genre itself, including its tropes and conventions. Should not be used to categorize questions about specific works of Fantasy.
 
What I was about to say ^
 
Though I haven't seen the meta
@Jenayah 26 fantasy left and 17 SF. At 2 or 3 a day it takes a while but I don't want to bump too many old questions
 
Now, if you'll give me a moment, I'd just like to clarify what I mean / what my stance is on the "answers in comments" thing earlier.
There is a network-wide policy in place to not post answers or half-answers in the comment section. Comments are, strictly speaking, for suggesting improvements and asking for clarification. If the SE policy was to be strictly enforced everywhere, then those comment-answers wouldn’t be posted, and, when posted, would be flagged and deleted by members of the community (including moderators).
But, SFF (as well as lots of other sites across the network), chooses not to enforce this policy strictly. So, answers-as-comments are in fact rather common, and don’t usually get deleted. This means that usually you can get away with posting them here.
There are arguments to be made for both sides – in favor of, and against, these comments. But, at the end of the day, strict SE policy is to delete them, but SFF does not enforce this strictly.
 
I thought we'd just agreed to disagree on this? :)
 
Now we can do that ;)
 
10:37 AM
I'm back from lunch and this is still ongoing... *sigh*
 
Apart for really really obvious policies ("Be nice"), can we actually expect to have a policy that's uniformly applied to each one of the 140+ sites of the network, which cover topics ranging from what to feed your cat to how many Hogwarts students there are? :P
 
Now you're asking the real questions, what do I feed my cat?
 
@Jenayah Yes! Yes we can. Until you get to Puzzling.SE. Then everything breaks :P
 
@Mithrandir And PPCG where it breaks more
 
But, actually... yes. There are certain things that make it a SE site, which includes the engine and the policies that make it a Q&A site, not a discussion forum.
 
10:39 AM
Though you can't expect a policy to be applied uniformly, different site cultures automatically make that next to impossible but meh, I can't be bothered to keep going over the same things anymore
 
@TheLethalCarrot assuming you want your cat to be healthy:
12
A: What are the healthiest foods I can feed my cat?

John CavanCats are carnivores, they have to eat meat in order to be healthy. In regards to your current feeding: Tuna in the can for human consumption is generally the muscle of the tuna, not the organs. Cats need to have both to get the nutrients they need. So, strictly speaking, tuna alone is not enoug...

 
See I've been using jelly tots, I guess that's where I went wrong
 
Meh I feed my cats bits
 
So now you can add "I am the Killer of Cats" to your persona introduction.
 
Oooh getting to Dany levels
 
10:46 AM
@Edlothiad remind me of that "weird cat behavior with braces" question ahah
 
I just meant that my cats are digital
 
Oh
I expected this joke to be more meta :(
 
Can some spam flags be sent in that direction?
 
Just a NaA though, not really a spam is it?
(actual question)
 
Looks very much like spam to me
 
10:50 AM
That's spam - pretty obviously trying to get clicks. Especially see the username.
 
Purely off-topic but from what I've seen it's not a product innit? Just some kind of celebration?
 
The link is what's being spammed.
 
Excellent points Jenayah. That's why I used my mighty delete vote.
 
...
(Ed was making a reference to the arguments we've had about not delete-voting spam, I assume.)
 
Discussions*
 
10:53 AM
Trying to understand: even if it does want to attract clicks, since it's not a "buy my thing/look at this hot chick" site, is it still spam?
 
Another instance in where vocal SFF meta regulars didn't especially care about anything remotely network-wide related.
;)
 
But no. I was saying I used my mighty delete vote initially because I agreed with Jenayah
 
@Jenayah It's advertising a product... just that product is the site
 
But when it was headed for death I threw in a cheeky flag
 
@Jenayah Unsolicited advertising / trying to attract clicks or undisclosed affiliation makes it spam.
 
10:54 AM
Lol. You say that like the "vocal SFF meta regulars" ever agree on anything.
This was a site coming together to defend what was ours.
Like William Wallace and the scots
 
Wait there's a vocal SFF? :o
 
@Mithrandir We/they care, but we care more for getting rid of spam as quickly as possible which after all is the main thing. Though I don't want to start this up again
 
@Mithrandir ok then.
Ooooh I thought we were talking about "vocal" such as in voice chat :)
But it's the "barking ones" then
 
Gonna be fun when the design stripdown comes along.
 
10:59 AM
@Jenayah Yes exactly it's a voice chat. 2 speakers at a time, scream as loud as they can and see who hits the highest decibel levels. Turns out it's the same couple of people, vocal regulars
 
Poor Joe is going to get put on a spit and roasted over an open flame.
 
@Edlothiad it's not embedded in the SE then? What is it, a Discord/Slack thingy?
 
I think Ed was pulling your leg
 
I'm pulling legs hehe
 
neutral party arrives
Give me a sec.
 
11:03 AM
@Edlothiad I thought the Grim was the one pulling legs? :p
 
Who say's I'm not the Grim?
 
:O and finally everything makes sense
 
8 messages deleted
 
:46220001 If that's in response to the LPT that wasn't directed at you in anyway. Others will attest they I often make the exact same claims.
 
@Edlothiad dang, yet another slimy filthy Grim disguising itself behind a neat dragon avatar. Lame.
 
11:05 AM
There we go, you may now continue your regularly scheduled chatting ;-)
Oh look, another @Mithrandir!
VTCs as duplicate
 
So much Miths, someone needs to make a Doge meme about this.
 
I'm not the Dragon, I'm the person
 
I'm the Dragon Reborn.
 
Daenerys?
Cute
 
@Randal'Thor But which is the master? Hmm...
 
11:07 AM
@Mithrandir The one with the bigger number, clearly.
@Edlothiad No, Lews Therin.
 
I'm team 24601
@Randal'Thor Hey now, size isn't everything. It's about how you use it!
 
*is about to challenge @Mithrandir24601 to a sword fight, then realizes that that's probably not a good idea*
 
Although one focuses on HP and the other on GoT. Guess we know which one uses the name better.
 
@Mithrandir I imagine it like this with more mithiness:
You must have terrible aim, because you keep mithing each other with the swords.
 
Ouch.
@Edlothiad It's conclusive: 24601 vs me. ;)
 
11:11 AM
Will you fight with Glamdring and Glamdring24601?
 
Meh, too much effort to change my name to Olorin and claim the title
 
I'm kind of disappointed to see that the "songs' lyrics comment thread" is about Queen. :(
If you ask me, Sylvia was a better fit song :p
Can still do though, because we would've the King along Queen ;D
(am I making sense to anybody?)
 
Nope. :P
 
@Edlothiad There was an Olorin around here, but he changed his username.
 
@Jenayah What's this in reference to?
 
11:15 AM
42
A: Romantic movie about a guy trying to find the woman in his dreams by piecing together faces from magazines

EdlothiadThis sounds awfully similar to The Truman Show A guy dreaming about the one who will love her and he tries to figure out how she looks like. Sylvia, the woman, had appeared in Truman's past and tried to reveal that he was actually in a TV Show. However, the production crew took her a...

 
@Randal'Thor Aye.
@Jenayah Nope, but whoever started that is a genius!
 
And since Truman was kind of waiting for a word of love from Sylvia...
 
@Mithrandir :P I don't have my sword with me today though (it's in my room, while I'm at the office)
 
@Edlothiad tab's closed but your chat reply gives me a slight indication on who started it...
 
Sylvia by Presley doesn't work because it doesn't contain the line "Is this real life". Which Bohemian Rhapsody famously starts with.
I'm disappointed that there were so many missed lines.
 
11:18 AM
@Randal'Thor I think that's about the only film I'd let get away with stage fencing
 
@Edlothiad I know that, I just mean that there could have been a parallel comments thread :)
 
Needs starting, I'm sure we can somehow craft a story ID to have a sylvia comment thread
I'm glad someone noticed the thread though. I was grinning from ear to ear when I woke up this morning to people continuing the song.
 
5 mins ago, by Jenayah
And since Truman was kind of waiting for a word of love from Sylvia...
 
I'm lost
@Jenayah That one's taken. And it won't cheat on Queen, it's faithful!
 
@Edlothiad right because kings never cheat on queens :)
 
11:30 AM
OOOOOH Elvis is the King...
I just got it
 
ahah
yeah that was the joke
 
Slow on that one
 
Easy now Carrot.
 
You know, I'm not even able anymore to understand if my room "mates" just straight-up want to bugger me or are plain dumb. Just got a got told that "there'll be a party with 15 new persons up until 1am, so you won't be able to us the kitchen [note: again] nor eat there while we're here. Is that alright?", to which I snarkily replied that I was getting used to it and that I would make do.
Answer: "great :D "
 
Sound dumb to me
 
11:35 AM
I don't think my ability to give an answer that reeks of "f*** you" has faded, so I'll just settle for "plain dumb".
On a side note, that means that the roommates are back, which means that war and open season is back with them.
 
Wait they party during the week?
 
@Edlothiad they're on holiday.
Actually, scratch that, they also partied when they weren't.
 
I would cremate a room mate for partying till 1 am during the week
 
@Edlothiad Unfortunately, my room is upstairs. I don't want the smoke to go there.
So far, seeing as I got no bandwidth repeatedly, got scold at when asking them to switch the speaker thingy which was sucking it (on top of banging loud music) on a mobile or something, then got looked down as "No, mobile plans aren't expensive here. Stop saying stuff is expensive here. My mobile plan is unlimited and cheap", I just kicked the ones treating me as a dog out of the Wi-Fi.
 
Ah the old wifi password resetarooney
 
11:44 AM
Funny thing, nobody related the "new roommate who does IT stuff", "we don't get along with said roommate", "roommate complained about not having Wi-Fi but doesn't anymore", "hey I don't have Wi-Fi, do you have some?" yet.
 
@Randal'Thor also, said roommate explained what Ethernet was on the first week she got there.
 
I knew someone at uni who would do that while he was gaming
Then change it back.
 
'cause Wi-Fi means "without wire", but that doesn't really seem to imply that there used to be a wire, in some people's minds.
 
@Jenayah Pretty handy! Isn't there a routing setting to privilege your machines at the box level? >:D
 
11:46 AM
@Edlothiad well what can I say, I scratched my head for a looooong time but eventually figured out the login and password.
 
Answer deleted in 50 seconds :-P
 
Lol
@Randal'Thor 7/10
 
@Jenayah Looking for @Loong?
 
@Randal'Thor no ahah
"looong time" was two tries actually, the hopeful one of "let's try the login/password they use everywhere else" - wasn't it
And the second was the "I'm so tired of this shit" - admin/admin worked very well
@lephe you mean allowing more bandwidth or stuff? Can do, but I was looking for retaliation actually ahah
 
The best would still be that you go undetected IMHO ;D
 
11:52 AM
@lephe I am undetected, see:
7 mins ago, by Jenayah
Funny thing, nobody related the "new roommate who does IT stuff", "we don't get along with said roommate", "roommate complained about not having Wi-Fi but doesn't anymore", "hey I don't have Wi-Fi, do you have some?" yet.
It's been one and a half month - granted, some have been on holiday during that time.
 
But for how long? Or maybe your roommates are not into IT enough to find out?
 
Does one have to be "into IT" to know how a wifi works?
I mean google would help pretty good.
I'm certainly not "into IT" but can work a basic network website
 
@lephe one doesn't really have to be into IT to type "why don't I have wifi when other device has it" on Google
First answer to that is probably "check if the router hasn't been played with"
 
I think you're both right... which only serves to emphasize my question: "but for how long?" :p
 
@Jenayah Surprisingly few people think to do that.
Speaking of Google ...
 
11:57 AM
@Randal'Thor we're talking 20ish years old gals, surely they know Google.
 
warning: slightly NSFW
 
@lephe sadly I won't be able to track that after I'm gone
 
What exactly is NSFW? Nudity? Language? It's not actually work?
 
I thought of changing the "admin/admin" credentials to something along the lines of "f***you/regards,$MYNAME", but I don't want to deprive future tenants of Wi-Fi, so I won't
 
Although 1.5 month is already a good performance!
 
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