TeX, LaTeX and Friends

12:22 AM

@UlrikeFischer at what time do you plan to take breakfast? I just checked in and I think I'll go straight to bed, after 22h on the road.

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' around 8.15 I think.

yo'

@UlrikeFischer ok, sounds good. Would you mind me joining in? Just, I suppose you mean local time, not CEST :D

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' Yes local time -- we are already here for more than 12 hours and could adjust our clocks ;-). You can certainly join in ;-)

@DavidCarlisle I hope you saw the credentials and the plane in vimeo.com/270727100.

yo'

@UlrikeFischer I adjusted my watches in the plane, actually. I hope to see you in the morning. (Unless you're having a drink now which I would join probably.)

Ulrike Fischer

@yo' we are already in our room and intend to sleep soon (it is well past midnight in "europe" time ...).

@egreg @carlatex In europe it should be now the 18.7. now: July, 18th is one of the most ominous days in Roman history. It was on this day in 387 BC (some say 390) that Rome suffered one of its worst defeats ever in the Battle of the Allia against the Celts under Brennus. The date became proverbial as „dies ater“ (black day).

As a consequence of the battle the Celts sacked Rome but could not take the Capitoline Hill. Legend has it that it was the honking of the Holy Geese of Juno which warned the defenders of the approaching enemy. Modern historical research has proved otherwise. (see below)

3

yo'

12:34 AM

@UlrikeFischer I now the European time obviously, I was getting up at 3:35 and now it's 2:35. Needless to say I slept altogether about 20 hours in last 5 nights...

manooooh

3:27 AM

Jelou

I am making a LaTeX document and I realized that I often comment code with 4 or 5 percentage symbol lul

CarLaTeX

@UlrikeFischer <3 :):):)

CarLaTeX

3:43 AM

@DavidCarlisle :P

egreg

8:23 AM

@UlrikeFischer To which M. Furius Camillus allegedly replied “Non auro, sed ferro, recuperanda est patria”

Paulo Cereda

9:15 AM

@yo' Sorry, Tom. I am leaving home right now to catch my plane. I will be in Rio by lunch time.

You arrived earlier than me...

Joseph Wright

9:36 AM

On my way to Rio ...

Shamina

10:02 AM

Hey guys!

I have a ques:tex.stackexchange.com/questions/19987/…

In the above answer, how can we color the` a,b,c,d` and 1,2,3,4. Is there a way to make Ellipse bigger?

(Picture is so small but the white area is very big)

Torbjørn T.

@Shamina label={[red]left:$a$} will make the a red, for example. If you want the same color for all of those, you can probably modify the every label style. To make the ellipses bigger you can increase the inner sep in the every fit style.

Shamina

@TorbjørnT. File ended while scanning use of \tikz@parse@label@nonactive.

I am not sure if it is working

Torbjørn T.

@Shamina So you must have done something wrong. Complete example follows:

\documentclass{article}
\pagestyle{empty}
\usepackage{tikz}
\usetikzlibrary{calc,trees,positioning,arrows,fit,shapes,calc}

\begin{document}
\begin{figure}
 \centering
 \begin{tikzpicture}[
    ele/.style={fill=black,circle,minimum width=.8pt,inner sep=1pt},
    every fit/.style={ellipse,draw,inner sep=30pt},
    every label/.append style={blue}
]
  \node[ele,label={[red]left:$a$}] (a1) at (0,4) {};
  \node[ele,label=left:$b$] (a2) at (0,3) {};
  \node[ele,label=left:$c$] (a3) at (0,2) {};
  \node[ele,label=left:$d$] (a4) at (0,1) {};

Shamina

10:18 AM

@TorbjørnT. Many thanks(my ignorance, I couldn't follow it b4). Is there a way to write say a big A on left ellipse and big N on right ellipse on top of the alphabets and numbers?

@TorbjørnT. (Naming the left and right sets). Merely providing the coordinates and node will it work the same way?

Torbjørn T.

@Shamina You could use a label for the ellipse nodes as well, e.g.

\node[draw,fit= (a1) (a2) (a3) (a4),minimum width=2cm, label={[anchor=north,yshift=-5pt,font=\Huge, black]above:$N$}] {} ;

(if you want the N above, remove anchor=north,yshift=-5pt,)

Shamina

@TorbjørnT. Thanks again :) worked

Paulo Cereda

10:56 AM

Heading to the airport

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda local organisers shouldn't need to fly:-)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle I could go by shaky bus, but it would be a 8-hour shake!

Harald Hanche-Olsen

11:22 AM

@PauloCereda ooh a shaky plane!

@DavidCarlisle Brazil is such a small country. Just look at a Mercator map of the world.

Paulo Cereda

12:08 PM

Waiting at Viracopos!

Stealing their wi-fi

What have the airports ever done for us

Where are you guys?

barbara beeton

12:24 PM

@AlanMunn -- thanks! that's exactly what we wanted to know. (we've already got the cards for travel elsewhere, and they work just fine. but it's my understanding that they don't work when crossing the border by car. and it's much nicer to have the freedom of one's own vehicle in many parts of canada, especially if one is going to be staying in a campground. since we usually don't have other travelers with us, that's not a concern.)

Paulo Cereda

@barbarabeeton Hi!

yo'

@PauloCereda having a huge breakfast, what did you think? :D

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Awesome! How was your trip?

@yo': sorry I could not prepare a welcome party to you. I was... ahead of time. :D

yo'

@PauloCereda long, with a spicy ending; the taxi driver was quite funny :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Oh

barbara beeton

12:29 PM

@PauloCereda -- hi to you. have a good, unshaky, flight, and say hello to everyone for me, please.

Paulo Cereda

I will hit the hotel around 14h.

@barbarabeeton I will, Barbara!

yo'

@PauloCereda ok, I should be here at that time

Paulo Cereda

The VCP airport is lovely

Probably the coziest airport I've ever been.

@yo' oh no worries, have fun! You are in Rio!

I might look for food when I arrive...

@barbarabeeton, @DavidCarlisle ^^ bread, perhaps? :)

yo'

@PauloCereda I'll have my breakfast settle down and the I hit the beach!

Paulo Cereda

/waiting to get hit on the head with a rolled newspaper

@yo' Awesome! Tanned Czechs! :)

yo'

12:31 PM

@PauloCereda but bread won't make for good foie gras...

Paulo Cereda

@yo' oh no

You are mean

yo'

@PauloCereda you don't say...

Paulo Cereda

@yo' :)

Last time I checked, Joseph was boarding to Rio.

And Mico will arrive tomorrow, IIRC.

yo'

@PauloCereda which route does he take?

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- bread is not good for ducks. you should look for something green and leafy.

Paulo Cereda

12:33 PM

@yo' I know it's from Amsterdam

@barbarabeeton ooh lettuce pizza

yo'

@PauloCereda really? interesting, I thought I'm the only one going that way

Paulo Cereda

@yo' I think it's a good route.

yo'

@PauloCereda which is your flight number?

Paulo Cereda

Mico is going through Madrid.

Barajas ewww

barbara beeton

@PauloCereda -- hmmm. that would end up kind of soggy. well, it's not leafy, but green pepper is good on pizza. so are artichoke hearts. (but pizza dough still falls into the bread category. too bad.)

yo'

12:35 PM

@PauloCereda well, I would have preferred Lisbon as it's quite shorter, but it was much more expensive

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Azul 4028

@barbarabeeton Expect photos. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda ok, I'll stalk you :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Ah indeed.

yo'

@PauloCereda it's 1 hour less in planes, but almost 3 hours less in the long haul.

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Oh no worries, really. Take your time in Rio. Being in the local committee, I might need to go to IMPA today and help Paulo Ney with some adjustments for tomorrow.

Mico is coming with Iberia.

Joseph is KLM, I guess.

I am with Azul.

Cannot wait to get my hat!

Oh wait, that's a secret

You guys read nothing

yo'

12:38 PM

@PauloCereda strange, because there's only one flight AMS-GIG and that's the one I took which lends 19:35

Paulo Cereda

Cannot wait to definitely not get a super secret hat

yo'

@PauloCereda not anymore for people at breakfast today :)

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Yes, Joseph told me that's his arrival time

@yo' ooh breakfast people

@yo' met Ulrike?

yo'

@PauloCereda ah ok, so he'll be here very late at night, actually. I arrived at the hotel at 9pm

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle want me to get your $20 back from Joseph?

yo'

12:40 PM

@PauloCereda yep, we arranged a breakfast together today

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Oh indeed. You noticed that night falls way earlier than Europe.

@yo' How nice!

yo'

@PauloCereda well, it's winter, after all; that's why I go to the beach

Paulo Cereda

@yo' No, it's a general rule, even in summer. :)

@yo' Our concept of winter might be interesting for you! :)

@TeXnician: hi, pal! Miss you!

TeXnician

@PauloCereda Hi, I'm just back :)

yo'

@PauloCereda well, so far winter seems to be the good season, the weather here is exactly the same as in Czechia :)

Paulo Cereda

12:42 PM

@yo' I told you it's not fair. :)

yo'

@PauloCereda well, you, who've never seen snow ... :D

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda Brazil has good pizza, try that

Paulo Cereda

@yo' /quacks in despair

@DavidCarlisle Nutella pizza is good.

@DavidCarlisle cannot wait to shock Frank

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX ^^^^^

Paulo Cereda

:)

@DavidCarlisle Joseph will return full of great ideas for our UK-TUG meetings

Guys, I am very excited for this week!

I will meet my friends in person!

I will have fun in Rio de Janeiro!

yo'

12:45 PM

@PauloCereda and back home, too :) we still have to make some plans!

Paulo Cereda

@yo' I already have some. :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda no it's OK I'll take it direct from your card (£ not $)

yo'

@PauloCereda I hope so :) well, just in case, I look my international DL with me :)

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@yo' what's DL? :)

David Carlisle

@PauloCereda a meeting room above ground level, perhaps?

yo'

12:46 PM

@PauloCereda driver's license

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle and windows!

@yo' ooh

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Nutella pizza is not a pizza

yo'

@DavidCarlisle breakfasts at the 23rd floor with a sea-sight?

Paulo Cereda

@CarLaTeX and it's a great pizza

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX don't tell @PauloCereda but I might agree with you on this point.

Paulo Cereda

12:47 PM

@DavidCarlisle oh no

/quacks in despair in the airport

@PauloCereda VOIDH

@PauloCereda Oh no!

@yo' LOL

btw, @PauloCereda do you know when Enrico arrives?

Paulo Cereda

I could make a flashmod quack in the airport hall

@yo' Oh

David Carlisle

12:49 PM

@yo' he can't make it

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle I'll keep this link among my preferred ones!

yo'

@DavidCarlisle oh no!

Paulo Cereda

@yo' Could you Hangout a bit?

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX nothing to do with pizza of course, I can't see how anything covered in a synthetic brown sludge could be an improvement on the thing without the covering:-)

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle LOL

David Carlisle

12:52 PM

@CarLaTeX whereas ham and pineapple go together in multiple dishes

Paulo Cereda

@DavidCarlisle huuum ham

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle Fortunately, not in Italy

Paulo Cereda

Shutting down. I see you all in Rio!

yo'

@PauloCereda Have a good trip!

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX don't you have ham and melon even in Italy?

CarLaTeX

1:02 PM

@DavidCarlisle Yes, that's good, and also salame e fichi

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX so (more or less seriously) I don't see the objection, ham and pineapple is essentially an equivalent combination but obviously not traditional in Europe as pineapples harder to grow.

@CarLaTeX and melon wouldn't survive a pizza oven:-)

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle I should try prosciutto e ananas (not on a pizza, however)

Maïeul

Is there any change in hyphenation rules in LaTeX previous month?

David Carlisle

@CarLaTeX yes start with small steps on the way to enlightenment

CarLaTeX

@DavidCarlisle :P

David Carlisle

1:07 PM

@Maïeul not since 1985

Maïeul

ok

I have a strange, strange thing

David Carlisle

@Maïeul well for US English, other language patterns may have been updated,

Maïeul

I have a text

wihcih the output is not the same since the texlive2017

David Carlisle

@Maïeul MWE?

Maïeul

github.com/maieul/ledmac/blob/master/examples/…

but it is not really minimal

is what I get five month ago

David Carlisle

1:11 PM

@Maïeul it's OK I may try later, but haven't the libertine fonts been updated? that could affect hyphenation

Maïeul

ah!

yeah

David Carlisle

and if you are using luatex rather than xetex never expect anything to be the same from year to year

Maïeul

maybe

no, I use xetex

David Carlisle

@Maïeul OK that is much closer to TeX's hyphenation implementation and more stable between releases.

Maïeul

in any case, libertine have not change since 2017

David Carlisle

1:15 PM

@Maïeul I'll try later

Maïeul

today, I get "ae-nean"

thank

I don't think that is releddmac, because I tried again with the version from the last time I produced the png

and also because reledmac only split a vbox, and does not modify hyphen or so one

I also tried with \RequirePackage[2018/02/21]{latexrelease}

that does not change anything

yo'

@Maïeul it's the wrong order of arguments, isn't it?

Maïeul

no @yo'

that is what the documentation tell me

yo'

@Maïeul ok, I won't argue then :)

David Carlisle

@Maïeul it won't as latex has essentially no control over the hyphenation. If something has changed it will be the babel setup for latin or the patterns or xetex or luatex or the fonts. latexrelease only rolls back the core latex format.

Maïeul

1:23 PM

@DavidCarlisle yeh, but I didn't find that my problem was related to hypen

I have juste find it

barbara beeton

@Maïeul -- that's what english patterns would get. i've just checked the tex-hyphen list archive, and see an announcement of updates to latin datec 20 january 2017. don't know the details. request was made by Élie Roux, and cited github.com/gregorio-project/hyphen-la/blob/master/patterns/… . the basis was apparently liturgical text; i don't know what differences there may be between liturgical and classical latin.

Maïeul

I don't use the hypen for litufical text

David Carlisle

@barbarabeeton @Maïeul the latin patterns are same in 2017 and 2018 (probabably updated in a tl2017 update) but there is a difference between them and the tl2016 patterns:

< 1b   2bb   2bd   b2l   2bm  2bn  b2r  2bt  2bs  2b.
---
> 1b   2bb   2bc   2bd   b2l  2bm  2bn  b2r  2bt  2bs  2b.

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle @Maïeul -- that's what i suspected. i just tried the text with tl2016, and "aenean" wasn't hyphenated.

Maïeul

and in texlive 2017?

where could I find these file?

David Carlisle

1:38 PM

@Maïeul as I say the tl2017 ones and tl2018 ones are same (now) but my tl2017 setup had updates of course so an older tl2017 may be same as tl2016 (the top row in the diff above)

Maïeul

ok

David Carlisle

/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/tex/generic/hyph-utf8/patterns/tex/hyph-la.te‌x

@barbarabeeton odd thing is the only diff is in patterns with a b

barbara beeton

@Maïeul -- since the request for update was in january 2017, the changes almost certainly were included in tl2017. if you need the patterns for 2016, i think i can find them and send you a copy.

Maïeul

yes

that is logical

however, it seems very strange to me, because I produce my output without hypen in 2 may

with a texlive 2018

David Carlisle

@Maïeul has \lefthyphenmin changed for latin?

Maïeul

1:41 PM

but, maybe I did a mistake at this time

I don't know

I will look

/usr/local/texlive/2018/texmf-dist/tex/generic/babel-latin/latin.ldf
Language: latin 2015/08/20 v.3.5 Latin support from the babel system

so no change in 2018

it is the first time of my life I deal with hypen

it seems it was 2 also in texlive 2016

so I think the problem was I made mistake with my .png file in may

egreg

@Maïeul That's the date for the ldf file, it says nothing about hyphenation patterns.

Maïeul

I am totally loost

where should I look for \lefthyphenmin potentiel change?

barbara beeton

@Maïeul -- in the babel file, it allows several "attributes" to be specified, including "medieval" and "classic". your example file doesn't specify any such style (although i'm not sure exactly how it should be specified). can you add the classic attribute to your file and try again?

egreg

1:57 PM

@Maïeul If I ask \showhyphens{Aenean}, I get Ae-nean with TL 2016, 2017 and 2018. A change in the font metrics seems likely the cause.

Maïeul

@egreg thanks

David Carlisle

52 mins ago, by David Carlisle

@Maïeul it's OK I may try later, but haven't the libertine fonts been updated? that could affect hyphenation

:-)

Maïeul

ok

ctan.org/ctan-ann/id/…

Maïeul

2:19 PM

@DavidCarlisle I have made a full mwe

gist.github.com/maieul/6f9c3043e17158e76fe9df4c44c6a62d

texlive 2016 : libero

texlive 2018 : Ae-

for the first line

hoho

the result is not the same with polylossia and babel

David Carlisle

@Maïeul if you put the full text in a \setbox0=\hbox{...} and look at the \wd0 it's identical so there is no change to the metrics I think, \showhyphens shows ae-nean as a break point in 2016 and 2018 and if you change the input to Ae\-nean then it breaks there in both cases. so it looks like a low level xetex/harfbuzz/something change (or at least harder than I can debug at work:-) @egreg may have a better idea?

Maïeul

@DavidCarlisle I suspect something in polyglossia

because with babel, I have aenean (in the line two)

@DavidCarlisle yeh, that seems it is the problem

@DavidCarlisle ok ! Found the problem!

it is related to the fact that the polyglossia I used didn't have the good .ldf file for latin

sorry for the noise

but it the fault to Arthur Reteneuer

Faheem Mitha

3:38 PM

I've been using \includepdfcalls with TikZ for annotating PDFs. I also chose to make the font red. A curious thing is that small parts of the original included PDF have also been colored red. Does anyone know why this is the case?

It's not important, and probably not worth writing a question about, even if it was on topic.

egreg

3:54 PM

@Maïeul @DavidCarlisle The difference is that \righthyphenmin is set to 2 in TL2018, while it used to be 3. If I compile the reduced example by stating \righthyphenmin=2 after \begin{document}, the output has “Ae-nean” also with TL2017.

@Maïeul @DavidCarlisle This setting changes the sequence of break points and the algorithm does the rest.

egreg

4:05 PM

22c22
< i-scing elit. Fu-sce sed do-lor li-bero.
---
> i-scing elit. Fu-sce sed do-lor li-be-ro.
29c29,32
<  com-modo
---
>  com-mo-
> @\discretionary via @@1 b=54 p=50 d=6596
> @@3: line 2.1- t=8900 -> @@1
> do
31,32c34,35
< @ via @@2 b=138 p=0 d=31904
< @@3: line 2.2 t=2529 -> @@1
---
> @ via @@2 b=141 p=0 d=32801
> @@4: line 2.2 t=2529 -> @@1
34,39c37,47
< @ via @@2 b=97 p=0 d=11449
< @@4: line 2.3 t=16065 -> @@2
< quis gra-vida orci. Nul-lam at ri-sus ele-men-tum, su-sci-pit enim a, pel-len-t

marmot

4:30 PM

@FaheemMitha Is that independent of the viewer? (And no, I never had this issue.)

Faheem Mitha

4:49 PM

@marmot I've only tried with okular.

What alternative viewer do you suggest. I use Debian.

Alan Munn

6:24 PM

@barbarabeeton Also just in case there's some confusion, Nexus and Global Entry aren't quite the same thing. If you have Nexus you're automatically in Global Entry but not vice versa. You need a Nexus card the enter Canada using the Nexus lanes, but you can enter the US using the Nexus lanes with either.

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- thanks. when we looked at global entry, it seemed that it and nexus were mutually exclusive -- that nexus would apply only to travel between the u.s. and canada. if nexus really does include global entry for the rest of the world, then we'll get that, and not bother to renew global entry when the time comes. (i think we'd better check carefully. who knows what might change by then.)

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton No, Nexus makes you part of Global Entry automatically. You don't need both.

@barbarabeeton I think in the beginning they were mutually exclusive, but not any more.

barbara beeton

@AlanMunn -- great news! double thanks! (about time the bureaucracy did something sensible.)

David Carlisle

6:45 PM

@egreg ah that's what I guessed above but I had no time earlier, been out, thanks for confirming.

Alan Munn

@barbarabeeton It's still a bit byzantine though. For example only Canadian citizen nexus holders get TSAPre; non-US citizens don't even though they can have a Nexus card if they are permanent US residents.

barbara beeton

7:14 PM

@AlanMunn -- there's no explaining some rules. (i still can't figure why, when we had global entry and tsapre, we were pulled out of the line when we went to india for the 2011 tug meeting, and subjected to extra inspection. could be that we were transferring airlines in new york, from jet blue to emirates, and somebody thought we looked like terrorists. in the process i lost my favorite ruana. will never fly with that combination of airlines again.)

David Carlisle

@AlanMunn @barbarabeeton once you've sorted out the details of that border could you clarify how we are supposed to get in or out the UK post brexit?

Ulrike Fischer

@PauloCereda O Rio de Janeiro e uma cidade muito perigosa! (No, we didn't!) vvvvv

2

barbara beeton

@DavidCarlisle -- i'm sure not a diplomat, so not much help. (i would have voted on the other side. i seem to be saying that more and more these days.)

Maïeul

8:53 PM

@egreg thanks! But indeed, it seems that, also, the version of polyglossia I used in both case were not the same

Alan Munn

10:02 PM

@barbarabeeton My understanding of Global Entry might be too simplified though. I think that you can only use Nexus in lieu of Global Entry from within Canada and upon return from the US, but not in overseas pre-clearance.

@DavidCarlisle I think you need to go via N. Ireland. Or get a parliament that has a backbone.

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$TeX - LaTeX$ TeX, LaTeX and Friends