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00:00 - 09:0009:00 - 00:00

9:10 AM
Thought for the day
AskUbuntu and AskDifferent are the only large Stack Exchanges with no minimum assumption of knowledge.
We are not "Q&A for experts". We are "Q&A for everyone", and frequently "Q&A-driven tech support".
Many problems with AskUbuntu — its low quality questions, its small middle class, its muted downvote culture — may be incurable.
At least under current constraints.
We are a inclusive community using software tuned for exclusiveness.
StackExchange tries to thresh out and bury chaff. Ubuntu attracts people inclined to pick it up.
You were typing this out the whole time?
I'm very fast.
Oh, forgot the translation for Jorge
0000000 064124 072557 064147 020164 067546 020162 064164 020145
0000020 060544 005171 071501 052553 072542 072156 020165 067141
0000040 020144 071501 042153 063151 062546 062562 072156 060440
0000060 062562 072040 062550 067440 066156 020171 060554 063562
0000100 020145 072123 061541 020153 074105 064143 067141 062547
0000120 020163 064567 064164 067040 020157 064555 064556 072555
0000140 020155 071541 072563 070155 064564 067157 067440 020146
0000160 067153 073557 062554 063544 027145 053412 020145 071141
Thanks you, GNU coreutils. od file.txt
@jokerdino I think it might have been at least partially related to me referring you to the docs
I wonder..
Nah, just some unorganized thoughts of mine after reading this question: askubuntu.com/questions/132502/installation-of-gimp-2-8
On StackOverflow, I would downvote that question fourteen words in, and close the tab.
But in the context of this community, my response is different.
9:17 AM
true enough. it's just broken is more acceptable here
it's a little sad yeah
Does SE actually work for tech support...?
@aking I am trying to do something. But I can't. I don't know what I should be doing.. :(
@JacobJohanEdwards We are part of the experiment.
At least we are better off than Parenting
Yes, but it feels like certain things should be tuned differently for our needs
For example, Chat requires 20 rep. I really think we could handle issues like this better if we could immediately pull guys like this into chat
You can
9:20 AM
I can? He's under 20 rep...?
Invite them in and grant the explicit write access
What he says ^
I've done it with a 1 rep user
Okay, well that's one place where I was wrong. There may be hope for us yet!
The process could be simpler, but it does exist.
They usually don't click OK when you invite them though
9:22 AM
It would also help us if Ubuntu itself were less frequently broken
I mean, update problems do happen... quite a bit...
Or if people stopped following guides meant for Badger
But increasingly, people are getting smarter.
Might need to change the word chat to X wants to help you. Is this okay? just a thought
Earlier, I dug out 200+ unmet dependency questions.
yeah, may be a button to do that automatically?
like invite user to chat and give write access, etc.
9:26 AM
that too...without a chain of a thousand comments
well then, i might visit meta.SO and write a post.
if none of you beat me that is.
I'm about to break cult lines here, but.... why is apt so awful? It's been in development since the dawn of the Linux and its transactions STILL aren't ACIDic
We get questions about incomplete/interrupted updates every day...
broken upgrades to precise
It would be better if it allowed suspend/resume of fetch, but I'm not aware of an OS that recovers gracefully from unplugging during the actual application of the update
I suppose BTRFS will lead us to the promised land where Apt can just take a snapshot before updating, then revert if things go sideways...
9:33 AM
that's a good suggestion.
It just feels Apt should be more robust after nearly two decades of development
@JacobJohanEdwards that's definitely a possible
IIRC openSUSE has already implemented it for YAST
commercial Linux from RH does it I think
meh...if I have to pay a hundred bucks for a limited student license, i'll take my pre-installed windows
9:35 AM
Doesn't RHEL use ext4 at the moment? How do they snapshot and restore it?
@JacobJohanEdwards I don't know. I only heard commercial linux using btrfs. Some vague memory
i just don't see how using a different package manager for your FOSS offering and your non-free OSS offering is a good idea...or how limiting packages available based on how much you pay is a good idea. that being said, i haven't used it in a while. there may be a way to add community repos to RHEL, but I'm quite sure if you do -- then you lose any sort of support or warranty.
Heh, do we even have ads on AU?
9:44 AM
no only on SO.
Or is it just SO
if you exclude community ads that is.
@JacobJohanEdwards - so is openSuse still chugging along after Novel Suse started going EOL?
@aking1012 I don't follow it too much, but apparently Novell Suse is dead, but Novell and Suse still exist as indepndent subsidiaries of Attachmate
it's just something that concerns me is all
9:50 AM
Hm, it actually bodes well for Ubuntu, since Canonical could potentially usurp SUSE's position as the REHL alternative
However, the Linux distro ecosystem does seem to be collapsing in places.
That probably isn't good
A little competition is good. But too many just spoils the fun.
@aking I am wondering. What do you get for having a 10k+ global rep?
some of the 10k mod powers in chat
chat flag review is the only one i've noticed
2.5k rep away. Hmm
exactly...some. i can't edit or delete. so it's mostly chat flag review, but i don't want to say that's all b/c then i'll find something else
It stopped making sense to me.
9:54 AM
Wow, you can actually flag yourself...
Hey, cool
Oops, we have a mod here :S
Sorry @MartinScharrer . Didn't expect you here.
Wonder whether I should have started the topic in the first place..
I wouldn't stress it.
@JacobJohanEdwards Linux distro ecosystem collapsing in some places - yeah a little. If linux just went away, embedded devices almost universally would never get firmware updates again
I think the concept of "Linux" itself is dying. When people stopped calling it GNU/Linux, that was a blow. When distros started emphasizing their own branding, that was a blow. When Android came out without GNU, that was a blow. And now each major distro seems to be pursuing its own holistic experience and toolchain. That's the deathblow.
But maybe it's for the best
We definitely agree on part of that. When I can't compile from source a basic Gnome desktop with basic multimedia, it's over. BSD will still be here either way. You just have to be careful about hardware
Well, having an archipelago of four hundred vaguely different operating systems with no common software delivery platform or coherent product story, and calling it one thing -- "Linux" -- didn't win FOSS the world
To be completely honest, I think BSD is in worse trouble than LInux
10:04 AM
i don't think it's going anywhere. it just has very specific use cases
@JacobJohanEdwards this is true enough i suppose. everybody wants to win. nobody wants to comply.
I meant Desktop BSD, emedded and server will obviously be fine
generally speaking, i think freebsd will be fine. PCBSD is in trouble to be sure
GNOME seems pretty intent on murdering you guys... Or maybe that's just Lennart Poettering.
maybe, but i was running xfce on ubuntu until recently
the only thing BSD lacks that I get from linux is OpenCL
Even so, XFCE is a much smaller community, and follows GNOME in many things
I recall XFCE had to drop support of some functionality in BSD a while back
Can't remember what, some change in system requirements for GLib or something?
Linux specific
10:08 AM
possibly. i'm at a loss, but I've been ... let's call it awake ... for entirely too long to remember for sure
And then we have X.org deleting old codepaths that aren't DRI2 compliant, which were still being used in BSD
The age of cooperation is done.
true enough. there may be some UI trouble on getting new packages. the old ports tree will still work though...let's remember that they have USB passthrough for vbox ose working on BSD, but not on linux
I'm not here to bash BSD. Just observation.
I think many large OSS projects are adopting a silo approach.
Collaboration and standards slow progress, and intuitively
I think GNOME and Ubuntu and KDE, etc know that rapid progress is needed now
Lest the iPads take over the world more fully than PCs ever did
I disagree on that particular point. I don't think rapid progress is needed
10:13 AM
we'll just diverge on that one
The "devices" approach to computing is murdering Software Freedom.
Stuff that Microsoft would never dare to do in the 90s is done by Apple every week nowadays
I mean, even at the height of Microsoft's monopoly, "trusted boot" was tossed.
OSS just needs to put in non-commercial clauses in everything. libpng and openssh vulns that affect all consumer electronics? yes.
Nowadays, you are hard-pressed to find an open bootloader tablet
@JacobJohanEdwards true
i may have a different idea of software freedom though
Well, yes, but presumably your version of software freedom doesn't involve software users' having no right to modify software on their own hardware.
10:18 AM
Q: Should "move-to-chat" be provided on demand (as a button perhaps)?

CatskulWhen comments get too chatty the move-to-chat feature asks if you'd like to move it out. But this often happens after the fact and thus doesn't prevent it. I propose that: Move-to-chat be provided as a button along side so that a user who knows their question or conversation may become drawn ...

Someone has suggested it ^
@jokerdino ignored though... :(
I am going to write an answer. including parts of our convo..
@JacobJohanEdwards oh, it does allow users to modify on their own. just not for commercial gain. joe at home has every right to modify software on his own hardware. he does not have the right to put a slick UI on top of it and sell a proprietary version.
i think i misread your statement, hence the edit that essentially reversed part of the meaning
@aking1012 I don't mind non-commercial FOSS. I am in favor of whatever kind of FOSS prevents a future of big-brother / centrally-managed / restricted-capability computing
And with the iPad soaring, I see that future brewing.
That's why I think FOSS needs rapid progress.
there will be a modder community that keeps up with chipset changes
10:24 AM
Even so, it gets more and more inaccessible.
maybe. i think you're trying to persuade me. and i'm not going to be persuaded on this one.
Mac OS X is now a flip switch away from only being able to install Apple-approved software
python. nuff said
Oh? And who's to say Apple wouldn't sandbox /usr/bin/python so-as to only be used for approved software?
that's already possible with AppArmor on Linux
Without root access, any form of restriction is feasible.
it's possible. but saying you can't run python scripts on removable media would be atrocious
10:28 AM
Atrocious, but possible.
i have severe doubts that will happen
they would lose Dino as a fanboy if they did that
There is tremendous will to make it happen. The idea of things like that makes big content cream its pants.
I mean, heck, Intel is now hard-burning DRM into their CPUs
Who would have imagined that ten years ago?
I've always been an AMD ATI guy
All the way back to cyrix chips that doubled as space heaters
And, if people could only access big content from Intel chips, don't you think AMD would buckle under the pressure?
Firefox is buckling under H.264 and video DRM, and they're the most idealistic game in town
nope. new media will change that, or there will be media gateways
10:32 AM
ok. hold your argument - meta.stackoverflow.com/a/131566/177471 - i just wrote some crap ready to be downvoted.
I don't like how Meta.SO looks. AU looks far better.
It's all about the ability to change software on devices. If consumers have the right to change software on their devices -- which according to DCMA, they don't -- then all DRM is pointless and can be worked around. Otherwise, the most Orweillian nightmares of computing's future are possible.
@jokerdino upvoted
thanks both of you.
@JacobJohanEdwards I own a beagleboard. Telling me I can't put something on dev-gear? not going to happen
or i'll move to another country when i can't buy hardware and install the software i want
If they are going to restrict power users, I will move to whatever that allows me to do whatever I want.
@aking1012 Once 95% of people use appliances (eg non-rooted restricted computers), it's quite possible that general computers will require a license to buy.
This will be sold to the populace as security against hackers, piracy, CP, etc
Basically, only CS people will get them
10:36 AM
see my last comment
are we not merely imagining stuff here?
yes...he's trying to modify my current point of view with a highly unlikely chain of possible future events
concern troll Boo
@jokerdino @aking1012 think you're both falling victim to frog-in-water syndrome. Every year, new restrictions are being laid down. And these new restrictions are directed by money interests. It follows that money will continue to be interested in more restrictions.
okay, this had relevance to ubuntu about 5 conversation forks ago. now i'm not sure it does. i think i'm done
10:41 AM
@aking1012 Okay, fun talking with you
ok we are accumulating more and more posts everyday in /review. :)
should we just blindly review 10+ voted posts?
i am sure we have them in the review queue
i started reviewing edits, but i'm not sure i'm going as far as posts
Hm, I don't usually review low-quality posts. Lots of false positives.
10:58 AM
yeah, i don't do lq posts/answers. the heuristic is too strong on length. a one-line question or answer is deemed weak.
@jokerdino i'm afk for a while. lmk if you have a specific question about packaging/modifying that facebook notifier thing. it doesn't work or i give up don't count. if you've got a specific question, i'm happy to hear it. you can find my email if you want to bounce stuff off me
11:18 AM
Can you answer this? Need to repair or reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 without losing programs or data http://askubuntu.com/questions/127688/need-to-repair-or-reinstall-ubuntu-12-04-without-losing-programs-or-data?atw=1 #upgrade
2 hours later…
1:44 PM
@Rinzwind added ans answer to this. askubuntu.com/a/132639/10698 since nobody else did! :O
2:39 PM
Bounty offered: Some videos stopped playing in Mythbuntu 12.04 http://askubuntu.com/questions/129391/some-videos-stopped-playing-in-mythbuntu-12-04?atw=1 #mythbuntu
3:36 PM
Q: Why I can not install ubuntu on my laptop?

Kaan Alvés KılıçHello everyone im try many way to install ubuntu 11.04 and 12.04.I tried both versions but i have always same problem.I restart my computer then coming language menu i select my language and select to set up ubuntu then its a black page.I Have ATI graphic card.My laptop is hp g62 series

4:17 PM
Hello all
4:53 PM
5:33 PM
Bounty offered: Touchpad not working on Acer Travelmate 4740 after applying recent updates in Ubuntu ... http://askubuntu.com/questions/131318/touchpad-not-working-on-acer-travelmate-4740-after-applying-recent-updates-in-ub?atw=1 #touchpad
5:46 PM
What is the basis of the naming of Ubuntu codenames?
version codename
@Santosh Adjective Animal
Good Night
6:00 PM
What after it reaches "Z"?
I have just installed vim via mercurial and googlecode however whilst vim loads the correct version gvim is still loading another version, how do I update gvim to use the same version of vim. I need this to get command-t working in gvim. Thanks.
6:49 PM
@Tom any particular reason you chose to install vim from source?
@Alvar thanks for doing that ... dont forget to click the community wiki tickbox when posting an OP answer - obviously you dont want do claim credit for someone elses answer would you not :P
... you've been reading omgubuntu havent you... :)
Nah, iloveubuntu.net
Not a bad avatar for htorque
7:30 PM
> "Pin sites directly to your Windows 7 Taskbar – you won’t find this feature in any other browser."
Is that really true?
you can do it with chrome, if you're clever
Besides, I though userland applications weren't supposed to be able to pin stuff...?
@jrg working through my first rails app
anyone wanna play some SIMON needs sound
7:45 PM
hey e1 I've php5-gd installed however I get error: "PHP module GD is not installed."
why would it be?
man.... my events are all messed up.. i'l admit i don't know much about touch events.
wat r u trying to touch ? :P
^ look at link i posted above.
8:08 PM
which is better choice? sqlite or mysql?
for cloud type server
looks like its mysql
SQLite is great - but it lacks some of the features MySQL has (like table constraints, etc.).
yup realized after reading some stackoverflow :)
btw how can I present website running on port other than 80 on internet without using port number?
For many apps that use SQLite, Xapian would really be better.
No one knows about Xapian though.
But for a server, have you considers postgres? Or some NoSQL option?
8:24 PM
sqlite and mysql were only options -- I'm setting up owncloud
@fossfreedom sorry, forgot.
I don't know/do anything to db but owncloud by itself manages db, now next issue is: can I run website without :8080 (I've mail server on 80 and its different machine)
hi all
hey @htorque
8:27 PM
Bounty offered: Get Unity style notifications in Gnome Classic? http://askubuntu.com/questions/129005/get-unity-style-notifications-in-gnome-classic?atw=1 #unity
Will you be using official cycle logo for your avatar this time?
8:40 PM
@lazyPower Do you want to see the Gemfile of my current project?
just to scare you into doing things lean and mean... ;)
Made it
@JacobJohanEdwards nope, mine is a lot better.
Yeah, his is better
8:49 PM
and i got almost no time for uds :-(
or chatting in here... btw, good night all! :P
night @htorque
9:14 PM
I haven't seen @Stefano around here much.
I take it he's been very busy?
he's been busy with school.
Yeah, I wondered about that.
I was just thinking of him because I was doing some particularly tricky things with Python.
1 hour later…
10:21 PM
@MarcoCeppi I should have worn my AU shirt today, perhaps tomorrow :)
@ajmitch I went to order a whole bunch for UDS, but I put the order in too late, so I've got STICKERS!!!!! but only like 10 shirts
hello, how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time?
10:36 PM
@hey redshift
Q: How that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time?

heyhow that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time? how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time? how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time?

its all you Marco ;)
Hello. Maybe you can help me with a quick terminal question.
MarcoCeppi thanks
whats the question @JasperLoy ?
So I know we type q to quit the terminal after reading a man page.
10:39 PM
If we do a dist-upgrade and then get some notification message which when scrolled down ends in an "<end>", do we also type q to continue?
@JasperLoy yep
Nothing else comes up when you did the dis-upgrade like 'continue (y/n)' or something like that?
I pressed enter but nothing happened. However I circumvented the issue by using apt-get -q dist-upgrade, where -q here is for "quiet", and the dist-upgrade went fine but that's cheating.
Any gurus here with some insight on the above matter?
10:45 PM
Oh @marco your face appeared in the Ubuntu 11.10 installer in the advertisement to askubuntu, but it's gone from the 12.04 installer. :-)
@ruffEdgz Anyway I hope if it happens again I can use the -q option, otherwise my dist-upgrade is screwed.
@JasperLoy :D
OK @lol I confess the above terminal problem happened on Debian, not Ubuntu!
11:18 PM
I hate it when I do esc :wq while I'm in browser :-/
Q: Moving a pane in LibreOffice back to the main window

Marco CeppiI accidentally moved a pane in LibreOffice from it's nice docked position to a new window. Now I can't move back it. As you can see, the Slide Pane is floating as it's own window and not docked like Tasks, etc.

Bounty offered: Screen saver just won't die in Mythbuntu after upgrade to 12.04 http://askubuntu.com/questions/127813/screen-saver-just-wont-die-in-mythbuntu-after-upgrade-to-12-04?atw=1 #screensaver
I've got a binary file that begins with 'zlb'... anyone know how to open it?
11:41 PM
@MarcoCeppi I answered.
OK I think with regard to the question I asked just now, one may press q as well.
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