Ask Ubuntu General Room

Jacob Johan Edwards

9:10 AM

Thought for the day
AskUbuntu and AskDifferent are the only large Stack Exchanges with no minimum assumption of knowledge.
We are not "Q&A for experts". We are "Q&A for everyone", and frequently "Q&A-driven tech support".
Many problems with AskUbuntu — its low quality questions, its small middle class, its muted downvote culture — may be incurable.
At least under current constraints.
We are a inclusive community using software tuned for exclusiveness.
StackExchange tries to thresh out and bury chaff. Ubuntu attracts people inclined to pick it up.

jokerdino

You were typing this out the whole time?

Jacob Johan Edwards

I'm very fast.

Oh, forgot the translation for Jorge

0000000 064124 072557 064147 020164 067546 020162 064164 020145
0000020 060544 005171 071501 052553 072542 072156 020165 067141
0000040 020144 071501 042153 063151 062546 062562 072156 060440
0000060 062562 072040 062550 067440 066156 020171 060554 063562
0000100 020145 072123 061541 020153 074105 064143 067141 062547
0000120 020163 064567 064164 067040 020157 064555 064556 072555
0000140 020155 071541 072563 070155 064564 067157 067440 020146
0000160 067153 073557 062554 063544 027145 053412 020145 071141

Thanks you, GNU coreutils. od file.txt

aking1012

@jokerdino I think it might have been at least partially related to me referring you to the docs

jokerdino

I wonder..

Jacob Johan Edwards

Nah, just some unorganized thoughts of mine after reading this question: askubuntu.com/questions/132502/installation-of-gimp-2-8

On StackOverflow, I would downvote that question fourteen words in, and close the tab.

But in the context of this community, my response is different.

aking1012

9:17 AM

true enough. it's just broken is more acceptable here

jokerdino

it's a little sad yeah

Jacob Johan Edwards

Does SE actually work for tech support...?

jokerdino

@aking I am trying to do something. But I can't. I don't know what I should be doing.. :(

@JacobJohanEdwards We are part of the experiment.

At least we are better off than Parenting

Jacob Johan Edwards

Yes, but it feels like certain things should be tuned differently for our needs

For example, Chat requires 20 rep. I really think we could handle issues like this better if we could immediately pull guys like this into chat

aking1012

You can

Jacob Johan Edwards

9:20 AM

I can? He's under 20 rep...?

aking1012

Invite them in and grant the explicit write access

jokerdino

What he says ^

aking1012

I've done it with a 1 rep user

Jacob Johan Edwards

Okay, well that's one place where I was wrong. There may be hope for us yet!

aking1012

The process could be simpler, but it does exist.

They usually don't click OK when you invite them though

Jacob Johan Edwards

9:22 AM

Ah.

It would also help us if Ubuntu itself were less frequently broken

aking1012

:/

Jacob Johan Edwards

I mean, update problems do happen... quite a bit...

jokerdino

Or if people stopped following guides meant for Badger

But increasingly, people are getting smarter.

aking1012

Might need to change the word chat to X wants to help you. Is this okay? just a thought

jokerdino

Earlier, I dug out 200+ unmet dependency questions.

yeah, may be a button to do that automatically?
like invite user to chat and give write access, etc.

aking1012

9:26 AM

that too...without a chain of a thousand comments

jokerdino

well then, i might visit meta.SO and write a post.

if none of you beat me that is.

Jacob Johan Edwards

I'm about to break cult lines here, but.... why is apt so awful? It's been in development since the dawn of the Linux and its transactions STILL aren't ACIDic

We get questions about incomplete/interrupted updates every day...

jokerdino

broken upgrades to precise

aking1012

It would be better if it allowed suspend/resume of fetch, but I'm not aware of an OS that recovers gracefully from unplugging during the actual application of the update

Jacob Johan Edwards

I suppose BTRFS will lead us to the promised land where Apt can just take a snapshot before updating, then revert if things go sideways...

jokerdino

9:33 AM

that's a good suggestion.

Jacob Johan Edwards

It just feels Apt should be more robust after nearly two decades of development

aking1012

@JacobJohanEdwards that's definitely a possible

Jacob Johan Edwards

IIRC openSUSE has already implemented it for YAST

jokerdino

commercial Linux from RH does it I think

aking1012

meh...if I have to pay a hundred bucks for a limited student license, i'll take my pre-installed windows

Jacob Johan Edwards

9:35 AM

Doesn't RHEL use ext4 at the moment? How do they snapshot and restore it?

Amith KK

BBL

jokerdino

@JacobJohanEdwards I don't know. I only heard commercial linux using btrfs. Some vague memory

aking1012

i just don't see how using a different package manager for your FOSS offering and your non-free OSS offering is a good idea...or how limiting packages available based on how much you pay is a good idea. that being said, i haven't used it in a while. there may be a way to add community repos to RHEL, but I'm quite sure if you do -- then you lose any sort of support or warranty.

jokerdino

stackoverflow.com/privileges/reduced-ads - This made me smile.

Jacob Johan Edwards

Heh, do we even have ads on AU?

jokerdino

9:44 AM

no only on SO.

Jacob Johan Edwards

Or is it just SO

jokerdino

if you exclude community ads that is.

aking1012

@JacobJohanEdwards - so is openSuse still chugging along after Novel Suse started going EOL?

Jacob Johan Edwards

@aking1012 I don't follow it too much, but apparently Novell Suse is dead, but Novell and Suse still exist as indepndent subsidiaries of Attachmate

aking1012

it's just something that concerns me is all

Jacob Johan Edwards

9:50 AM

Hm, it actually bodes well for Ubuntu, since Canonical could potentially usurp SUSE's position as the REHL alternative

However, the Linux distro ecosystem does seem to be collapsing in places.

That probably isn't good

jokerdino

A little competition is good. But too many just spoils the fun.

@aking I am wondering. What do you get for having a 10k+ global rep?

aking1012

some of the 10k mod powers in chat

chat flag review is the only one i've noticed

jokerdino

2.5k rep away. Hmm

aking1012

exactly...some. i can't edit or delete. so it's mostly chat flag review, but i don't want to say that's all b/c then i'll find something else

jokerdino

It stopped making sense to me.

Jacob Johan Edwards

9:54 AM

Wow, you can actually flag yourself...

Hey, cool

jokerdino

Oops, we have a mod here :S

Sorry @MartinScharrer . Didn't expect you here.

Wonder whether I should have started the topic in the first place..

aking1012

I wouldn't stress it.

@JacobJohanEdwards Linux distro ecosystem collapsing in some places - yeah a little. If linux just went away, embedded devices almost universally would never get firmware updates again

Jacob Johan Edwards

I think the concept of "Linux" itself is dying. When people stopped calling it GNU/Linux, that was a blow. When distros started emphasizing their own branding, that was a blow. When Android came out without GNU, that was a blow. And now each major distro seems to be pursuing its own holistic experience and toolchain. That's the deathblow.

But maybe it's for the best

aking1012

We definitely agree on part of that. When I can't compile from source a basic Gnome desktop with basic multimedia, it's over. BSD will still be here either way. You just have to be careful about hardware

Jacob Johan Edwards

Well, having an archipelago of four hundred vaguely different operating systems with no common software delivery platform or coherent product story, and calling it one thing -- "Linux" -- didn't win FOSS the world

To be completely honest, I think BSD is in worse trouble than LInux

aking1012

10:04 AM

i don't think it's going anywhere. it just has very specific use cases

@JacobJohanEdwards this is true enough i suppose. everybody wants to win. nobody wants to comply.

Jacob Johan Edwards

I meant Desktop BSD, emedded and server will obviously be fine

aking1012

generally speaking, i think freebsd will be fine. PCBSD is in trouble to be sure

Jacob Johan Edwards

GNOME seems pretty intent on murdering you guys... Or maybe that's just Lennart Poettering.

aking1012

maybe, but i was running xfce on ubuntu until recently

the only thing BSD lacks that I get from linux is OpenCL

Jacob Johan Edwards

Even so, XFCE is a much smaller community, and follows GNOME in many things

I recall XFCE had to drop support of some functionality in BSD a while back

Can't remember what, some change in system requirements for GLib or something?

Linux specific

aking1012

10:08 AM

possibly. i'm at a loss, but I've been ... let's call it awake ... for entirely too long to remember for sure

Jacob Johan Edwards

And then we have X.org deleting old codepaths that aren't DRI2 compliant, which were still being used in BSD

The age of cooperation is done.

aking1012

true enough. there may be some UI trouble on getting new packages. the old ports tree will still work though...let's remember that they have USB passthrough for vbox ose working on BSD, but not on linux

Jacob Johan Edwards

I'm not here to bash BSD. Just observation.

I think many large OSS projects are adopting a silo approach.

Collaboration and standards slow progress, and intuitively

I think GNOME and Ubuntu and KDE, etc know that rapid progress is needed now

Lest the iPads take over the world more fully than PCs ever did

aking1012

I disagree on that particular point. I don't think rapid progress is needed

Jacob Johan Edwards

Oh, I do

aking1012

10:13 AM

we'll just diverge on that one

Jacob Johan Edwards

The "devices" approach to computing is murdering Software Freedom.

Stuff that Microsoft would never dare to do in the 90s is done by Apple every week nowadays

I mean, even at the height of Microsoft's monopoly, "trusted boot" was tossed.

aking1012

OSS just needs to put in non-commercial clauses in everything. libpng and openssh vulns that affect all consumer electronics? yes.

Jacob Johan Edwards

Nowadays, you are hard-pressed to find an open bootloader tablet

aking1012

@JacobJohanEdwards true

i may have a different idea of software freedom though

Jacob Johan Edwards

Well, yes, but presumably your version of software freedom doesn't involve software users' having no right to modify software on their own hardware.

jokerdino

10:18 AM

29

Q: Should "move-to-chat" be provided on demand (as a button perhaps)?

When comments get too chatty the move-to-chat feature asks if you'd like to move it out. But this often happens after the fact and thus doesn't prevent it. I propose that: Move-to-chat be provided as a button along side so that a user who knows their question or conversation may become drawn ...

3

Someone has suggested it ^

Jacob Johan Edwards

@jokerdino ignored though... :(

jokerdino

I am going to write an answer. including parts of our convo..

aking1012

@JacobJohanEdwards oh, it does allow users to modify on their own. just not for commercial gain. joe at home has every right to modify software on his own hardware. he does not have the right to put a slick UI on top of it and sell a proprietary version.

i think i misread your statement, hence the edit that essentially reversed part of the meaning

Jacob Johan Edwards

@aking1012 I don't mind non-commercial FOSS. I am in favor of whatever kind of FOSS prevents a future of big-brother / centrally-managed / restricted-capability computing

And with the iPad soaring, I see that future brewing.

That's why I think FOSS needs rapid progress.

aking1012

there will be a modder community that keeps up with chipset changes

Jacob Johan Edwards

10:24 AM

Even so, it gets more and more inaccessible.

aking1012

maybe. i think you're trying to persuade me. and i'm not going to be persuaded on this one.

Jacob Johan Edwards

Mac OS X is now a flip switch away from only being able to install Apple-approved software

aking1012

python. nuff said

Jacob Johan Edwards

Oh? And who's to say Apple wouldn't sandbox /usr/bin/python so-as to only be used for approved software?

that's already possible with AppArmor on Linux

Without root access, any form of restriction is feasible.

aking1012

it's possible. but saying you can't run python scripts on removable media would be atrocious

Jacob Johan Edwards

10:28 AM

Atrocious, but possible.

aking1012

i have severe doubts that will happen

they would lose Dino as a fanboy if they did that

Jacob Johan Edwards

There is tremendous will to make it happen. The idea of things like that makes big content cream its pants.

I mean, heck, Intel is now hard-burning DRM into their CPUs

Who would have imagined that ten years ago?

aking1012

I've always been an AMD ATI guy

All the way back to cyrix chips that doubled as space heaters

Jacob Johan Edwards

And, if people could only access big content from Intel chips, don't you think AMD would buckle under the pressure?

Firefox is buckling under H.264 and video DRM, and they're the most idealistic game in town

aking1012

nope. new media will change that, or there will be media gateways

jokerdino

10:32 AM

ok. hold your argument - meta.stackoverflow.com/a/131566/177471 - i just wrote some crap ready to be downvoted.

I don't like how Meta.SO looks. AU looks far better.

Jacob Johan Edwards

It's all about the ability to change software on devices. If consumers have the right to change software on their devices -- which according to DCMA, they don't -- then all DRM is pointless and can be worked around. Otherwise, the most Orweillian nightmares of computing's future are possible.

@jokerdino upvoted

jokerdino

thanks both of you.

aking1012

@JacobJohanEdwards I own a beagleboard. Telling me I can't put something on dev-gear? not going to happen

or i'll move to another country when i can't buy hardware and install the software i want

jokerdino

If they are going to restrict power users, I will move to whatever that allows me to do whatever I want.

Jacob Johan Edwards

@aking1012 Once 95% of people use appliances (eg non-rooted restricted computers), it's quite possible that general computers will require a license to buy.

This will be sold to the populace as security against hackers, piracy, CP, etc

Basically, only CS people will get them

aking1012

10:36 AM

see my last comment

jokerdino

are we not merely imagining stuff here?

aking1012

yes...he's trying to modify my current point of view with a highly unlikely chain of possible future events

jokerdino

concern troll Boo

Jacob Johan Edwards

@jokerdino @aking1012 think you're both falling victim to frog-in-water syndrome. Every year, new restrictions are being laid down. And these new restrictions are directed by money interests. It follows that money will continue to be interested in more restrictions.

aking1012

okay, this had relevance to ubuntu about 5 conversation forks ago. now i'm not sure it does. i think i'm done

Jacob Johan Edwards

10:41 AM

@aking1012 Okay, fun talking with you

jokerdino

ok we are accumulating more and more posts everyday in /review. :)

should we just blindly review 10+ voted posts?

i am sure we have them in the review queue

aking1012

i started reviewing edits, but i'm not sure i'm going as far as posts

jokerdino

askubuntu.com/review/… check this out.

Jacob Johan Edwards

Hm, I don't usually review low-quality posts. Lots of false positives.

aking1012

10:58 AM

yeah, i don't do lq posts/answers. the heuristic is too strong on length. a one-line question or answer is deemed weak.

@jokerdino i'm afk for a while. lmk if you have a specific question about packaging/modifying that facebook notifier thing. it doesn't work or i give up don't count. if you've got a specific question, i'm happy to hear it. you can find my email if you want to bounce stuff off me

Questions Feed

11:18 AM

Can you answer this? Need to repair or reinstall Ubuntu 12.04 without losing programs or data http://askubuntu.com/questions/127688/need-to-repair-or-reinstall-ubuntu-12-04-without-losing-programs-or-data?atw=1 #upgrade

Tweeted by StackUbuntu on May 6, 2012 at 11:14 AM

Alvar

1:44 PM

@Rinzwind added ans answer to this. askubuntu.com/a/132639/10698 since nobody else did! :O

Questions Feed

2:39 PM

Bounty offered: Some videos stopped playing in Mythbuntu 12.04 http://askubuntu.com/questions/129391/some-videos-stopped-playing-in-mythbuntu-12-04?atw=1 #mythbuntu

Tweeted by StackUbuntu on May 6, 2012 at 2:14 PM

Ubuntu Questions on U&L

3:36 PM

0

Q: Why I can not install ubuntu on my laptop?

Hello everyone im try many way to install ubuntu 11.04 and 12.04.I tried both versions but i have always same problem.I restart my computer then coming language menu i select my language and select to set up ubuntu then its a black page.I Have ATI graphic card.My laptop is hp g62 series

ubuntu screen

Amith KK

4:17 PM

Hello all

Amith KK

4:53 PM

BBT

Questions Feed

5:33 PM

Bounty offered: Touchpad not working on Acer Travelmate 4740 after applying recent updates in Ubuntu ... http://askubuntu.com/questions/131318/touchpad-not-working-on-acer-travelmate-4740-after-applying-recent-updates-in-ub?atw=1 #touchpad

Tweeted by StackUbuntu on May 6, 2012 at 5:14 PM

Santosh

5:46 PM

What is the basis of the naming of Ubuntu codenames?

version codename

Amith KK

@Santosh Adjective Animal

BBT

Good Night

Santosh

6:00 PM

What after it reaches "Z"?

Tom

I have just installed vim via mercurial and googlecode however whilst vim loads the correct version gvim is still loading another version, how do I update gvim to use the same version of vim. I need this to get command-t working in gvim. Thanks.

lazyPower

6:49 PM

@Tom any particular reason you chose to install vim from source?

fossfreedom

@Alvar thanks for doing that ... dont forget to click the community wiki tickbox when posting an OP answer - obviously you dont want do claim credit for someone elses answer would you not :P

Jacob Johan Edwards

7:13 PM

fossfreedom

... you've been reading omgubuntu havent you... :)

Jacob Johan Edwards

Nah, iloveubuntu.net

Not a bad avatar for htorque

George Edison

Lol... browseryoulovedtohate.com

2

lazyPower

7:30 PM

facepalm

George Edison

> "Pin sites directly to your Windows 7 Taskbar – you won’t find this feature in any other browser."

Is that really true?

jrg

you can do it with chrome, if you're clever

George Edison

Besides, I though userland applications weren't supposed to be able to pin stuff...?

lazyPower

@jrg working through my first rails app

rlemon

anyone wanna play some SIMON needs sound

George Edison

7:45 PM

Wow.

wisemonkey

hey e1 I've php5-gd installed however I get error: "PHP module GD is not installed."

why would it be?

rlemon

man.... my events are all messed up.. i'l admit i don't know much about touch events.

wisemonkey

wat r u trying to touch ? :P

rlemon

^ look at link i posted above.

bbl

wisemonkey

8:08 PM

which is better choice? sqlite or mysql?

for cloud type server

looks like its mysql

George Edison

MySQL.

SQLite is great - but it lacks some of the features MySQL has (like table constraints, etc.).

wisemonkey

yup realized after reading some stackoverflow :)

btw how can I present website running on port other than 80 on internet without using port number?

Jacob Johan Edwards

For many apps that use SQLite, Xapian would really be better.

No one knows about Xapian though.

But for a server, have you considers postgres? Or some NoSQL option?

wisemonkey

8:24 PM

sqlite and mysql were only options -- I'm setting up owncloud

Alvar

@fossfreedom sorry, forgot.

wisemonkey

I don't know/do anything to db but owncloud by itself manages db, now next issue is: can I run website without :8080 (I've mail server on 80 and its different machine)

htorque

hi all

wisemonkey

hey @htorque

Jacob Johan Edwards

hi

Questions Feed

8:27 PM

Bounty offered: Get Unity style notifications in Gnome Classic? http://askubuntu.com/questions/129005/get-unity-style-notifications-in-gnome-classic?atw=1 #unity

Tweeted by StackUbuntu on May 6, 2012 at 8:14 PM

Jacob Johan Edwards

Will you be using official cycle logo for your avatar this time?

jrg

8:40 PM

@lazyPower Do you want to see the Gemfile of my current project?

just to scare you into doing things lean and mean... ;)

Marco Ceppi

Made it

jrg

Yay!

htorque

@JacobJohanEdwards nope, mine is a lot better.

Jacob Johan Edwards

vs i.sstatic.net/V3Cze.jpg

jrg

Yeah, his is better

htorque

8:49 PM

and i got almost no time for uds :-(

or chatting in here... btw, good night all! :P

ruffEdgz

night @htorque

George Edison

9:14 PM

I haven't seen @Stefano around here much.

I take it he's been very busy?

jrg

he's been busy with school.

George Edison

Yeah, I wondered about that.

I was just thinking of him because I was doing some particularly tricky things with Python.

ajmitch

10:21 PM

Hi

@MarcoCeppi I should have worn my AU shirt today, perhaps tomorrow :)

Marco Ceppi

:D

@ajmitch I went to order a whole bunch for UDS, but I put the order in too late, so I've got STICKERS!!!!! but only like 10 shirts

hey

hello, how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time?

Marco Ceppi

10:36 PM

@hey redshift

ruffEdgz

0

Q: How that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time?

how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time? how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time? how that program is called where it ajusts screen color to the time?

12.04 10.04

its all you Marco ;)

user19161

Hello. Maybe you can help me with a quick terminal question.

hey

MarcoCeppi thanks

ruffEdgz

whats the question @JasperLoy ?

user19161

So I know we type q to quit the terminal after reading a man page.

Marco Ceppi

10:39 PM

0

A: Is there a program that adjusts the screen color depending on the time?

The software you're looking for is Redshift

user19161

If we do a dist-upgrade and then get some notification message which when scrolled down ends in an "<end>", do we also type q to continue?

ruffEdgz

@JasperLoy yep

Nothing else comes up when you did the dis-upgrade like 'continue (y/n)' or something like that?

user19161

I pressed enter but nothing happened. However I circumvented the issue by using apt-get -q dist-upgrade, where -q here is for "quiet", and the dist-upgrade went fine but that's cheating.

ruffEdgz

lol

user19161

Any gurus here with some insight on the above matter?

user19161

10:45 PM

Oh @marco your face appeared in the Ubuntu 11.10 installer in the advertisement to askubuntu, but it's gone from the 12.04 installer. :-)

user19161

@ruffEdgz Anyway I hope if it happens again I can use the -q option, otherwise my dist-upgrade is screwed.

Marco Ceppi

@JasperLoy :D

user19161

OK @lol I confess the above terminal problem happened on Debian, not Ubuntu!

wisemonkey

11:18 PM

I hate it when I do esc :wq while I'm in browser :-/

Marco Ceppi

0

Q: Moving a pane in LibreOffice back to the main window

I accidentally moved a pane in LibreOffice from it's nice docked position to a new window. Now I can't move back it. As you can see, the Slide Pane is floating as it's own window and not docked like Tasks, etc.

libreoffice

Questions Feed

Bounty offered: Screen saver just won't die in Mythbuntu after upgrade to 12.04 http://askubuntu.com/questions/127813/screen-saver-just-wont-die-in-mythbuntu-after-upgrade-to-12-04?atw=1 #screensaver

Tweeted by StackUbuntu on May 6, 2012 at 11:14 PM

George Edison

I've got a binary file that begins with 'zlb'... anyone know how to open it?

Roland Taylor

11:41 PM

@MarcoCeppi I answered.

user19161

OK I think with regard to the question I asked just now, one may press q as well.

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