TRPG General Chat

BESW

12:12 AM

We got some productions samples from our latest Fate Dice KS. The Fate points are looking... sah-weeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Tweeted by EvilHatOfficial on May 9, 2018 at 4:33 PM

HellSaint

2:50 AM

How do I ask "Am I right?" questions? Or "I just want to be sure"? haha
Are there guidelines or something?

Yannick MG

It might be better and more useful to rephrase the question. Asking just because you want to be sure is perfectly valid, but your reason for asking doesn't need to be a part of the question. How to phrase your question depends on what you're trying to validate.

So since you already have an answer you want to validate, you should ask the question that can lead to it. For instance if your answer is that "Only X can do Y.", your question should be "Who can do Y?"

Joel Harmon

@HellSaint Consider removing your conclusion and just positing the situation.

HellSaint

well let's risk some rep - rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/122236/…

Yannick MG

Okay so correct me if I'm wrong, but that sounds like a duplicate of your previous question

Which is to say

HellSaint

that was not my question

it is a particular case that got me* in doubt though

if it was my question I would have edited it :P

Yannick MG

2:56 AM

I'm just thinking that the first question could easily be expanded to include both

But fair enough

HellSaint

Agreed, but I don't want to edit someone's else question to include my own

If it was my question I'd completely edit it to include both.

Yannick MG

Well if we accept my answer to the other question, it does mean that innate spellcasting isn't enough. If the answer to your new question says something different, that means my answer was wrong

That's why I think they're really strongly linked.

I was thinking to expand my answer to say that innate spellcasting isn't enough (per my own reading of the rules of course), I think I will do so now

HellSaint

Yeah, I agree with you.

innate spellcasting per se doesn't seem enough. It gets tricky to me when we consider spells that the innate spellcaster knows, though. "It feels awkward" that he can't read a spell even if he can cast it. Sorcerers are somewhat "Innate spellcasters" from their lore, as I understand, and that doesn't stop them from reading spell scrolls.

Yannick MG

To throw even more of a wrench into that interpretation.

Are the requirements for creating a scroll the same as the ones for using them? Not necesarily.

Is it possible that RAW some creatures can create spell scrolls but not use them?

Also does "Magic Initiate" qualify? Re-reading it I'm thinking that it might

but it's not clear

Really I'm not confident in my answer

HellSaint

3:15 AM

I agree with Spellcasting being enough to cast it, but I think there are a few particularities in that haha

nitsua60

@HellSaint Thinking about other innate spellcasters, though... every drow can cast faerie fire innately. Can they then read all scrolls? An ice mephit can cast sleep once per day--full access to scrolls?

HellSaint

Didn't get exactly what you mean.

Yannick MG

I think the distinction that matters is that the feature that gives the ability to cast the spell has to link that spell to a class?

In that sense, Magic Initiate would qualify but Drow innate magic would not

Magic Initiate stating "Choose a class: bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard. You learn two cantrips of your choice from that class’s spell list."

HellSaint

I didn't want to mean that "sleep is on every class list, so it has every class, thus full access to scrolls".

Shalvenay

hey there @HellSaint

HellSaint

3:18 AM

It was more like "it can cast Sleep, why the heck wouldn't he be able to read a Sleep Scroll?" haha

nitsua60

@HellSaint Ah... I may have mis-read/misunderstood the conversation. Sign I should go... count some sheep.

=D

HellSaint

don't worry haha

Yannick MG

If Magic Initiate qualifies... any class would get access to casting the most powerful Wizard spells from scrolls if they find one and have the feat...

HellSaint

hey @Shalvenay

Yannick MG

Flavor-wise that kinda works

HellSaint

3:21 AM

@YannickMG yeah, but then that's still awkward to me that some powerful and intelligent innate spellcasters, Mind Flayers being an excelent example, are not able to read even spells that they can cast, while a Magic Initiate that barely learned some wizard cantrips can read a Wish Scroll

Yannick MG

Yeah I'm liking this less and less

HellSaint

(as if I would put a Wish scroll on my table, but you got the idea hahaha)

Yannick MG

High Elf's Cantrip ability is worded the same way: "Cantrip: You know one cantrip of your choice from the Wizard spell list. Intelligence is your spellcasting ability for it."

Does this mean that every High Elf can read wizard spell scrolls by default?

The other interpretation is that the rules on the DMG only provide guidance for players casting spells? That sounds very wrong.

HellSaint

Yeah, it might be something on the lines "Welp the DM can make the creatures do whatever he wants with the scrolls anyway so let's give guidance only to the PCs LUL"

If a creature on an official adventure would ever be supposed to use a spell scroll the adventure will probably say so haha
Other than that they are probably comfortable letting it to the DM.

Yannick MG

Well going back to the mind flayer

There's a very good reason they wouldn't deal with spell scrolls

They do not use Arcana to cast spells. They effect them directly with their mind. This means they don't actually "know" them just like a Wizard would know every specific part of what goes into making the magic work

So it makes sense that they couldn't write spell scrolls or use them

HellSaint

3:38 AM

yeah, comparing to Wizards usually won't go well

but comparing to sorcerers... While they do understand what gestures, words and materials they use, their "understanding" is still somewhat "instinctive" or "innate"

I think the main problem for me is that I "see" Innate Spellcasting as something very close to how I see the Sorcerers' spellcasting.

Yannick MG

Here's the next problem. High Elf's cantrip ability refers to the wizard spell list but they can only cast a single cantrip. Drows can cast several spells but the ability doesn't refer to a spell list. It feels wrong for High elves to be able to use spell scrolls but not drows

And that's a valid concern of course.

We'd have to dig down into the flavor of both

Yannick MG

3:53 AM

Next up: Arcane Tricksters are rogues and their class do not have a spell list. So RAW they can't use spell scrolls even though they can obviously cast spells as though they were wizards

Wizards of the Coast, y u do dis

BESW

> Poor Quality Assurance. Once per session, when a character invokes one of their character aspects or uses one of their stunts, you can remove it from their character sheet for the rest of the session.

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