TRPG General Chat - 2018-04-08

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12:29 AM

Okay, I'm thinking about the D&D core books, in any edition 1e or later.

I feel like they generally try to serve at least three purposes:
1. Instruction. They've got to teach people how to play/run/design the game.
2. Reference. There're too many rules to really keep in one's head, so they need to be a reference work for the table.
3. Inspiration. Since there's a strong presumption that we'll create our own adventures/worlds/races/classes/spells/&c., it's nice to have a breadth of material presented to make a fledgling GM think "yeah! I *should* do something like that, and I *can* do something like that."

(That third one is inspired by my reflecting on Colville raking in $2M for writing a book that the DMG spent roughly a half-page on. ("Building a Stronghold.") Someone said "you don't need the core books to have rules for that, since the GM should just figure it out." But I don't see how the half-page gives a new GM anywhere near enough inspiration/skeleton to make strongholds and followers a part of their game, should their players want it.)

12:50 AM

@nitsua60 I like the list in the 5e dmg for dungeon master inspiration

Ditto the PHB's, actually

1:26 AM

(Oh, I stepped away an hour ago and forgot to actually put my question to the room!)

So here's the question, motivated by the above:

What other purpose(s) am I missing, that a corebook serves?

i can't think of anything that those three don't cover

1:39 AM

@JoelHarmon Not sure I'm following--which list?

@nitsua60 For the DMG, it's Appendix D: Dungeon Master Inspiration (p. 316)

for PHB, it's Appendix E: Inspirational Reading (p. 312)

@JoelHarmon Oh, you mean the old Appendix N stuff. (Slightly updated.)

Gotcha.

Setting Bible.

Marketing material.

Encouragement and confidence support (cheering squad)

Pop psychology self-help guide.

@nitsua60 I think you'll get more interesting results if you narrow the scope a little. Like, "teach people who to run/play/design the game." That conceivably includes pitching the game to get friends to join, and maintaining consistent tone at the table, and tracking complex mechanics during play, and making on-the-fly judgement calls, and...

I'd say the pop psychology in the 3.5 DMG about different kinds of players and how to deal with them isn't really in the same boat as the 4e DMG's guide on how to use XP tables to build balanced encounters.

What's got you pondering this ponder?

1:59 AM

@trogdor you there?

2:15 AM

Fourth-Century Roman dice tower from Froitzheim in Germany. The inscription translates as 'Picts Defeated, Enemy Wiped Out, Play in Safety'.

Tweeted by NorthAges on April 6, 2018 at 3:33 PM

For whatever reason it’s the “You can’t leave the city” aspect of BLADES IN THE DARK I find most intriguing. There’s a version of this game set in a ramshackle Martian arcology I wish I had time to tackle.

Tweeted by jonrog1 on April 7, 2018 at 10:31 PM

@BESW -- do you know where @trogdor is? we're looking for him over here

Dunno.

@BESW I was chatting with someone about looking forward to the 5e "Strongholds and Followers" book coming out. They claimed that "the DMG has that covered." So we got to talking and my position was that what the DMG's got is an excellent quick-reference for someone who already knows how to do all this.

does he need awakening?

@nitsua60 Ah, yes.

2:26 AM

But that any RPG that wants longevity needs to constantly be educating new cohorts of players, and that the DMG's half-page wasn't nearly enough. And I cited Colville raking in over $2M in a KS for a 5e Strongholds book as evidence.

I'd say that there's often a significant gap between what the books want to do, or try to do, and what they actually achieve.

s/books/me =)

For example, 3.5 has a paragraph or two about running political thrillers. It's completely insufficient to actually help someone run a political thriller in the 3.5 system.

(It boils down to "just do it, ya lummox.")

@BESW Yeah. I can't imagine a paragraph or two is sufficient to run in most systems.

3.5 also has several pages about the different kinds of players and player goals and how to integrate or manipulate them. It's not ineffective, but it's very condescending to certain playstyles and easily leads to toxic group atmosphere.

2:30 AM

I recently read through an adventure saying in its intro "this is a city-based thing. Most people shy away from city-based things, thinking they're hard." Then proceeds to not give any advice at all about how to run a city-based thing.

@nitsua60 lulz :P

@nitsua60 "I know how to do the thing. You should do the thing!"

"Why don't more people do the thing?"

2:56 AM

There was a 5e roundtable where one of the people (Might've been Colville, I know he was on it) was saying he'd like a hybrid DM book/adventure book that was along the lines of "This is an adventure book taking place almost entirely in Waterdeep. Throughout it, we'll also be giving advice on how to run your own city-bound/focused campaign, focusing on urban exploration and intrigue."

@CTWind Yeah, adventure books can work really well as teaching tools, and I think it's an underused ability.

Or "This is an adventure book taking place in Eberron. Throughout it, we'll be giving advice on building a low-power world where magic use is more prevalent than the expectations set forth in the DMG."

@Miniman Weren't some of the 1-5 adventure books teaching-focused? I haven't actually perused one thoroughly.

I think Freeport does that.

@JoelHarmon 1-5?

2:59 AM

Levels 1-5

I haven't looked at any pre-5e adventures - it's the first one simple enough for me to be comfortable DMing XD

I haven't looked at any pre-5e adventures - my groups tend to run custom campaigns

@CTWind This would be excellent. I'm not holding my breath, though =\

I really like the idea, it'd add a lot of value to the adventure books for DMs that tend to homebrew their settings.

@CTWind yeah, as it stands I really don't have much use for the adventure texts

3:08 AM

ToA, for instance, makes a big point of telling you at one point that it's a wilderness exploration campaign, it puts in the right mechanics (IMO) to make for a good exploration bit, but never instructs someone who doesn't know how to use all these elements to create... what? Why would one like this? What's the fun part? How do these all add together to create an experience?

Found it, segment's here. It was Colville, his answer starts @ 2h16m27s.

Hey the eagle feed is back!

:D

Cat Stevens - Morning has broken

@nitsua60 that is so perfect on so many levels

I wish I were savvy enough to grab the audio off of that to load in to R20 for ambient outdoorsy sound.

(The eagle feed, not the Cat Stevens video.)

Okay, not the flock of geese, maybe.

My oral comps featured me at a blackboard and a panel of professors grilling me. Afterward one of them confessed to me that one of their goals was to try and synchronize their questioning to get me to start rotating in place.

I feel like the geese just did that to the eagle, and it's neck's done a 1080 while I watched.

Hi egg! Time to turn over!

3:25 AM

@nitsua60 I feel like a turnover is not what we want in this case

I must say that I was pretty confused for a bit. I left the feed open on the computer all day and I started hearing weird noises from it. Thought my wife was watching something on her phone, but eventually I figured out it was the feed gone live again. It was the geese that gave it away lol

BREAKFAST!!!

"Oh, I see you already ate. I guess I'll just eat by myself, then."

Hey! they already rotated that!

This is my first time seeing the other one!

Or I should say, both at once

I should send this to my college buddy who's a Secret Service agent. I bet after this makes the round at his office they'll feel really silly saying "Eagle has landed" when it's just a president. Not a real eagle.

hahaha. Screw presidents. Eagles are where its at man.

Neil Armstrong, wherever he is, can still say it whenever he damn well pleases, though.

3:31 AM

I've never seen Trump swallow a fish tail whole in one gulp.

That might get me to join Twitter.

[egg]: psst... I'm getting chilly over here.

Maybe that wasn't the SO, but actually the Eagle version of Uber.

Eagle 2 gone. Now's our chance to swap in a human child!

See what happens when it's raised by eagles!

darn! a golden chance lost.

user image

3:35 AM

@BESW I forgot: time is a flat circle. Everything that will happen has happened.

Alright, I need to somehow go to sleep while it's light in Estonia.

I've never thought that Estonia's anything would affect my sleep. Yet here I am

2

(Also, use Bill & Ted time travel techniques to go tell ten year-old self that someday I'd utter that ^^ sentence.)

@nitsua60 It's also a good name for a band.

@nitsua60 This sounds like a metaphor. Or possibly a euphemism.

@BESW Neither. 200-word RPG.

Found this gem the other day:

Aug 13 '16 at 3:14, by nitsua60

Yay or nay on mainsite...
Q: What would be a good name for a band?
A: 10% Fabulous Androgyny (glam tribute)
90% Dead (probably Rolling Stones cover band)
A Fistful of Fate Points
A Helpful Soul (possibly presumptuous)
A Prod Ungently
All the Lurkers
An Indefinite Ben
Analysis Paralysis
Analysis Paralysis Hell (band that uses floppy drives as primary instrument)
Angry Time God (Trock band)
ASCII Moustache
ASCII Owl
Blindbag Dalek ("Pretty good")
Bloodthirsty Nouveau Riche Gangster Donald Trumps ((posted in 2013))

@nitsua60 Ten-year-old BESW would've countered that it's a helix: time moves on but history repeats itself.

3:40 AM

@BESW Ten year-oldl BESW was wise beyond... crap. I've lost hold of the timeline.

4:12 AM

I'm going to be heartbroken if this eagle thing turns out tragically in any way BTW.

4:23 AM

No one likes Hawks better around here I guess

4 hours later…

8:03 AM

Eagles are both in!

That was fun while it lasted

8:37 AM

Ooh, I heard a chaffinch sing in the background. A saying here says chaffinches return half a month before Summer.

So half a month before Summer in Haapsalu means... roughly a month here I guess.

9:24 AM

Oh no! The egg is unguarded!

@kviiri back!

The birds have seemed like they're panting, today. I wonder if they're getting hot brooding.

I've noticed the panting too

This stream needs some funny captions

Off-topic (both re: RPGs and birds), does anyone recognize the tune of this music box? drive.google.com/file/d/1RhKhvi-ECjwgvCqnzt990fFGrDlhMGcm/view

Eagle returning to nest, looking at egg: "WHAT IS THIS?" "OH" "WAIT" "NEVERMIND"

@kviiri My audio card is broken :(

9:28 AM

@Zachiel Bummer :(

Hmm. It keeps sounding almost familiar.

(Also, my grandmother had the exact same music box but with a different tune.)

[rummages]

This webpage has mp3s of many of the most common music box tunes.

@BESW We had one too, that played the Marseillaise. And the Physicist student org has one that plays L'Internationale.

@BESW Thanks!

You can narrow it down by counting the notes.

Hmm, this one has 20 distinct notes

freak.

9:39 AM

Or alternatively, two extra teeth

Yeah, I guess the two exterme ones are not used

Wasn't any one beginning with A

That leaves us... lot of letters.

Well, it's not as if I'm in hurry to find out.

1 hour later…

11:11 AM

A friend suggested the music box might be the King and Mockingbird theme but I'm not hearing it...

11:53 AM

@trogdor If you've got a hawk livestream, bring it on!

=)

I didn't realize it was all because of a livestream

It's windy in Estonia. It's windy here. Wind coming into my PC room while I look at eagle in the wind. It feels like I'm there, but at least nobody will try to peck my eyes.

12:10 PM

There's a youtube livestream of an osprey's nest in Satakunta, Finland here.

That is, it's literally of an osprey's nest. No bird to be seen.

But there's at least some conifers rocking gently in the wind.

@kviiri I can't look forward to the day some new conifer will hatch, can I?

@Zachiel It's a moment so beautiful, once you've experienced it you'll pine to see it once more for years to come.

@kviiri Amen

How do you force a break in a blockquote again?

The egg's been unguarded for a few minutes!

Is something wrong?!

This is so intense

Still!

Almost ten minutes

12:27 PM

Call Child Services?

Aah the birb has returned.

Is this the male?

I dunno, I'm bad at recognizing birds

12:44 PM

Ooh! Some little bird visited the Satakunta osprey nest

4 hours later…

4:38 PM

hey there @Anaphory

Hai! How's things?

alright here, as for you?

Mostly well. I've had weak cold (or allergy?) symptoms since Friday, but otherwise stuff is fine. Need to plan a game in my home town for next Sunday, I think.

hey @Zachiel

@Shalvenay Hey.

I think I've lost my path to bookmarked conversations, someone knows where it is?

Ah, found

1 hour later…

6:14 PM

hey there @ACuriousMind

6:27 PM

@Shalvenay hey there

how're things going?

alright here

doing fine

4 hours later…

10:09 PM

Zygosaurus is an extinct genus of dissorophoid temnospondyl from the Middle Permian of Russia. (Credit: Dmitry Bogdanov)

Tweeted by Extinct_AnimaIs on April 8, 2018 at 7:00 PM

Now accepting submissions/ entries for the 2018 One Page Dungeon Contest!

5

10:33 PM

Huh a one page dungeon, sounds a lot shorter than what I would expect you would need

I guess it's for the challenge in that

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