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12:00 AM
Party size is another issue
 
I'm pretty straight myself.
 
@SimonH. good to know your spine isn't all curved
XD
 
@trogdor That could be painful...
 
I imagine it would get you all bent out of shape yes
2/2 Trogster, keep it up
XD
 
Maybe prop-comic and ventriloquist, for the sorts of people who like to play artificers and mystics...
 
12:05 AM
@trogdor I hear it involves shock therapy, or something..
 
Ok well i have nothing for that one
 
@nitsua60 The Triceraprops: One third prop comic, one-third prop comic, one-third comic prop.
 
Why does carrot-top have a payphone strapped to his forearm?
 
@nitsua60 you traitor :P
@nitsua60 why?
 
12:19 AM
@BESW Hmm... missed that, somehow.
 
Ok see we don't interrupt the joke or ruin the punchline here unless we are me
 
So did I.
 
@trogdor So I'm actually taking this (too) seriously. What archetypes of comedian have we missed? Musical comic, shock-comic, man-from-mars?
 
If you don't have a Tom Lehrer/Weird Al archetype, you've failed utterly.
 
@nitsua60 you forgot the guy who is having an existential crisis and is therefore ok to laugh at because being screwed over is funny
 
12:22 AM
@trogdor Richard Lewis/Marc Maron type? (90s Maron, not as much current.)
@BESW Wouldn't "musical comic" catch that?
 
Hopefully.
 
hi
 
What's new?
 
The stand-up?
 
[wave]
 
12:25 AM
@bader hiya
 
@BESW I never really thought of lehrer/weird al as similar. I probably should have.
 
@SimonH. I wonder if stand-up/street/funny person to hang out with/film are expressions/manifestations of the archetypes rather than archetypes themselves?
 
@bader hallo
 
@NautArch And we will all go together when we go / It's Christmas at ground zero / New math: it's so simple that only a child could do it / All I see are patterns, patterns that repeat.
 
@nitsua60 Yeah, I guess. They're just separate expressions of those same mediums.
 
12:27 AM
can you help me ? i'm looking for a project name sadly I'm not native speaker I can't get anything good lool
 
Absolutely.
 
OOH! We forgot one, and given the roflfigsling the other day, I don't know how: AI.
(But maybe that's just one implementation of "man from Mars."
I.e. Latka and an AI are pretty much funny in the same way?
 
@BESW still remember when my dad first introduced me to him.
 
@nitsua60 I think they tend to have subtle differences
 
@trogdor Could be. I'm shooting from the hip, here.
@bader Hopefully. Can you describe your situation?
 
12:40 AM
Have you included doubletalk?
 
@bader Only if you tell me where Meinhoff went
@nitsua60 Malapropism comedy, Norm Crosby Style, and insult comedy, Don Rickles style.
(Back when she got started, Rosie O'Donnel when she was working a room did a decent riff on the Don Rickles insult comedy style)
 
Insult--nice. (Maybe that's an overlap with shock? Or maybe shock's just an "alignment," not an archetype.)
I don't know Norm Crosby.
 
hey there @KorvinStarmast
 
Crosby was the king of the malapropism. He was featured on some beer commercials, but that might be too many decades ago to have hit you on TV
@Shalvenay hullo
@nitsua60 here is a sample of his schtick
The king of scrambled syntax
Shock comedy IMO owes a debt to Rickles and Lenny bruce, both.
 
And there's whatever the Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theater is, in particular their "I know that word, it's a ____" "No, you're thinking of ____" sketches.
 
12:46 AM
Shock Jock DJ's on radio like Howard Stern spread it out via another medium
Howard used to be a lot funnier than he is now
 
After much chatting with my future @MotW_rpg players, we have basic back stories that will bring together a post fulfilled fate Chosen (now burned out elementary school teacher), a washed out wrestler, a cursed Monstrous wrestler, and a Smithsonian scientist. https://t.co/u65694NMZF
We are proud to be a home, lab, outlet, and creative avenue for so many fine tabletop people. Follow #AprilTTRPGMaker and learn more about the great people who are working so hard to bring you games.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:04 AM
GASP!
 
0
Q: Is it possible to *vote* to close a question as a duplicate when you have a gold tag badge?

Purple MonkeyRecently I acquired a gold badge for dnd-5e. Gold tag badges allow a user to single-handedly mark questions with the appropriate tag as duplicates and reopen them as needed. However, one problem I've run into is that there doesn't seem to be an option to actually vote to close a question as a d...

 
Argh I never get answers right
 
@SimonH. Your bit about weapons being tools has me itching to downvote.
 
@nitsua60 Just do it, I'm debating deleting it anyway
 
You're right that unarmed strikes aren't weapon strikes, but I think the reason's wrong.
 
2:09 AM
His version has unarmed strikes as weapons, so that would be correct
 
@SimonH. But he needs to be(come) aware of the errata. I know, because I, also, have "unarmed strikes" on my weapon table =)
 
@nitsua60 I see.
Should I delete my answer?
 
That's up to you. It's an attempt to answer the question, and it uses novel reasoning which one person (me) has said they find brow-raising. I don't see a strong reason to delete, personally.
 
If weapons aren't defined as tools, then what are they? I'm searching the PHB but I'm having trouble finding anything about this.
 
They're weapons.
Tools have a different table (around p.155 IIRC?), different proficiencies granted by backgrounds....
 
2:17 AM
So the original print was in error.
 
@SimonH. hence the errata :)
 
@Shalvenay ...I speak english, not latin :/
Oh, forgot "emphasis mine". My mistake.
 
2:45 AM
@nitsua60 155 has the pictures of some tools; the list is on the facing page, 154 (at least in my printing). Well done, sir.
 
@SimonH. From dictionary of English language ... er·ra·tum eˈrädÉ™m noun plural noun: errata 1. an error in printing or writing. 2. a list of corrected errors appended to a book or published in a subsequent issue of a journal Related words are "err" and "error"
 
@KorvinStarmast My first search seemed to indicate it was latin. I haven't heard it all too much, so I wasn't inclined to disagree...
Actually, it autocorrected to erratum. That's probably the issue.
Sorry if it came off as disrespectful.
 
3:05 AM
@JoelHarmon I'm... not sure it's actually a good thing. Certainly a niche skill. "I can tell you the suffocation rules are on p. 182 without looking first!"
 
Lol
 
It's 183, and you're a monster.
 
We are all monsters here Alice
XD
Sorry couldn't resist that one
 
If you fight monsters long enough, you become one. For example, I'm now that guy who pedantically corrects internet strangers who make otherwise excellent guesses.
 
@JoelHarmon Wow. I didn't actually think I'd be that close. In my mind the 170s are for "Using Ability Scores," the 180s are "Adventuring" and the 190s are "Combat." We're definitely into early "Spellcasting" by 200, I know.
 
3:12 AM
@nitsua60 You were also on the facing page.
 
0
Q: Do Arcane Archers from xanathars have their Arcane Shot last after missing?

AdamHI'm mostly wondering if a monk could use their deflect missile ability to catch an arcane shot and then throw it back with the arcane shot magic still in use. I looked at Arcane Shot and it doesn't say anything (from what I can tell) about it losing it's magic after it's shot. It's seventh level ...

Can't make heads or tails of this one
 
[Contemplates, then discards, idea for whole new tier of difficulty on Stack: create new account and answer questions quoting and citing only from memory.]
 
@nitsua60 well, you'd certainly be right for the job.
 
3:37 AM
@SimonH. I don't know--I might be too busy writing a new RPG about how roving bands of comics save the world. One banana peel at a time.
 
@nitsua60 oh, man. I might make an rpg about using stack exchange now
with rep instead of exp
 
@nitsua60 It's too bad you don't believe in bardrogues
 
@trogdor Yeah. Too bad... for them!
=D
 
@trogdor That's just college of the sword tbh
 
@trogdor I bet you'd believe in them if you could actually find one. They're just too good at sneaking.
 
3:43 AM
@nitsua60 well, my hero no longer believes in me, guess I have to go to New York and battle Seinfeld for his throne now
 
College of whispers, maybe
@trogdor lol you two should work together, imagine the shenanigans you could wreak on the ttrpg landscape
 
There can only be one bardrogue
 
There can only be one intimidation rogue
 
I'll get him next
XD
 
Not if he sees you first
that flail looks pretty gnarly
 
3:48 AM
No one sees me
And I play a silent instrument
 
you play a dog whistle?
 
Heh. Reminds me of an olfactory-based bard.
 
@SimonH. all the werewolves follow him around, enjoying the show? :D
 
@Shalvenay better, he charms them and orders them to kill from the shadows
college of whispers bard / mastermind rogue
 
@SimonH. better yet, it's a little girl in a red cloak doing this with a tiny flute ;)
 
3:52 AM
@Shalvenay what is it with contemporary fiction and weird red riding hood spinoffs?
 
@SimonH. I really have no clue myself
 
It's Red riding hood and the pied Piper
 
it's not just little red either, it's alice too
 
Apparently
I think too many things have been combined
The messages are going to get really mixed
 
next rapunzel is going to kiss little red riding hood back to life in a castle with a dragon
 
Ben
3:55 AM
Just need a power ranger reference in there and it'll be everything from my childhood
 
and then rapunzel and red combine and beat the dragon in a giant mech fight
 
@SimonH. I am almost certain someone wrote this fanfic already
 
@trogdor better have, or I'm writing it myself
Once upon a time, in a land far, far away... star wars theme plays
 
Lol
 
g'nite, all
 
4:09 AM
 
4:23 AM
Lol
Was it submitted?
 
4:44 AM
@trogdor I really hope not.
 
Fair enough
 
Evening.
 
Hi
 
Ben
5:11 AM
@KorvinStarmast @nitsua60 so, just wanted to clarify - for 3 players, even if I drop the DC of the zombies undead fort save, that fight is too hard for 3 or 4 lvl 1 pcs? (the scenario in the cathedral)
 
Ben
5:46 AM
For anyone else that might be able to help calculate this scenario, it's a fight with 10 skellies (in waves) and 1 zombie
 
Smelliest?
Oh
Typo
 
Ben
Lol
 
Looks a lot like someone's phone needs to be slapped across the face
 
Ben
Indeed. We've had a... Discussion
 
My phone apparently doesn't care what I think
I still get those stupid autocorrect things all the time
I have gotten better at catching them though
 
Ben
5:51 AM
Hahaha
 
It's when I edit a message and the phone decides one of the words I used doesn't need to exist that really gets me
 
Ben
@trogdor yeah, true
 
I have no idea why it does that
At least the autocorrect is useful some of the time
But if I edit my own message I probably removed any words I didn't want in there myself,......
Stupid phone
 
Ben
6:40 AM
So apparently we're well on our way to Halo 10
 
[hobbles out on walker and shakes cane] Back in my day...
(to be fair, in Halo terms "my day" was more than ten years ago.)
 
Ben
[Takes a moment to process that 10 years ago was 2008, not 1998]
Oh right.
But yeah, if you include Reach in the order, "Halo 6" is technically #7
 
....gosh, "my day" for Halo was 14 years ago.
 
Ben
Yup
 
I pretty much bowed out at Halo 2.
 
Ben
6:48 AM
Halo 3 was good. A good wrap up to the series.
Then activision ruined it
 
[massive shrug] The story never interested me beyond idle curiosity.
I was in it for the multiplayer maps with friends.
 
Ben
Reach had good multi-player :D
Probably why it was my favourite in the series
 
I literally never played anything after 2. The context in which playing Halo with friends happened stopped happening.
(In college I'd set up my dorm as a kind of safe hangout spot, and folks left their consoles there 'cause that's where they'd play. After college, that wasn't so much of a thing and I've never owned a console myself.)
 
Ben
Yeah. Same happened for me.
We used to have a "game night" once a week, but it just phased out eventually
 
7:04 AM
 
Ben
Hahahaha
Salty
 
7:20 AM
@BESW puuuuuurrrrfect use
 
7:33 AM
(Anyone who accuses 4e of power creep hasn't studied 3.5 either.)
 
3.5 didn't so much have a power creep as a power cliff
 
Well. Several sequential cliffs off which one would bounce on the way down into the bottomless chasm of epic levels.
 
well, 4e does have,.... universal power creep,
but you can fix it
especially easily compared to 3.5 stuff I have an issue with
 
8:10 AM
By "power creep", do they mean that additional options added later in the product's lifespan were stronger than the original ones?
I'm a bit embarrassed by myself hating 4e back in the day
I'd really like to play it again except my usual group will probably shun it, except the diehard 5e fan (because he hasn't played it and is curious)
 
@kviiri they might mean essentials, which added feats that mitigated the stupidity of feat taxes (feats everyone will take but that don't do anything interesting)
or they might mean that when you hit higher levels PC's get a little more powerful per level than monsters do
the second one can be fixed
the first one, in my opinion, isn't a problem to begin with
I did see some people bashing essentials in that thread,... because it was too powerful
 
8:30 AM
Ah, okay
 
and I can see a difference of opinion on that,... but I still hate the feat taxes
 
Yeah
I think one of the cool things feats enable is adding a new layer of uniqueness to a character
But if there's feats EVERYONE picks, that doesn't work.
Yesterday was a good night, I got my DIMACS transpiler to create syntactically valid output! :3
Semantically, not as much.
 
8:47 AM
the feat taxes I mean all increase to hit, and defences
aaaaand you actually need them to keep up with monster stats
so basically everyone takes them
essentials doesn't get rid of them, but it does replace them with feats that do an extra thing depending on what weapon you use and such
 
9:12 AM
0
Q: Do we need the [trying-new-systems] tag?

SecespitusI stumbled upon the tag trying-new-systems. Sadly it has neither a tag wiki excerpt nor a full tag wiki, and I can't find any discussions about the tag to learn something about the reasoning behind the tag. It's currently used for four questions: Fate based minigames in a historic/fantasy rea...

 
9:56 AM
the querent's comment shows below my reply to it
Is there some magic going on?
 
Ping magic.
 
@kviiri That is super weird. But also, I think you need to explicitly state that the DC will be 8 + ability mod + proficiency mod, or the querent is just not gonna get it.
 
@Miniman Yeah, I already put it in the answer.
Could it be that the user deleted their comment and reposted?
 
@kviiri I know, I mean literally the formula 8 + ability mod + proficiency.
 
@Miniman Well, that can't hurt I guess
Anyone have an idea what the notation "1d6 [ts] your Wisdom modifier" means in DnD 4e?
 
10:14 AM
That seems like a typo to me
It should just say 1d6 + your wisdom modifier
If your wisdom (or any stat) modifier is being tracked by a roll, it's being added
What is it saying that about?
 
I read the errata, no mention of it... in a 200 page document
weird :D
@trogdor It's an amount of healing from Healing Font
 
Yeah that's just supposed to add your Wis mod to the heal roll result
 
I think it's supposed to be "times". Maybe they had a markup that converted [\ts] or something into a fancy multiplication character.
 
No it adds the Wis mod
The healing powers are all similar that way
 
1d6 + wismod seems like curiously little for a 12 level daily power to heal though
 
10:19 AM
Oh
 
Even if it's a Paladin power, and works without surges.
 
You are right then I think
Hmm
 
And it's a minor action
 
If it doesn't use surges,..... I don't think it's supposed to multiply healing like that
 
So there's plenty of reasons for it to be minor healing, but still, sounds very underwhelming to me
now that we're in DnD 4e, I need to think about how much I'll offer for that stuff
 
10:22 AM
What book is it in?
 
PHB 1
 
Ah
 
Hospitaller Paragon Path, for Paladins.
 
Oh it's a PP power
 
Are Paragon powers usually more powerful, by level, than level-equivalent class powers, btw?
I never checked them that much because our only 4e campaign grinded to halt at about level 5.
 
10:24 AM
Uh it generally really depends on the PP
Some of them are actually just godaffully useless
It also depends on what your build is
 
hmm
yeah, seems likely
 
That'd be worth asking on mainsite, I think.
 
Really those powers are supposed to synergize with the Path features and your feats and items and such
Or in some cases they just lean hard on letting you do something no one else can do
 
@BESW Excellent idea
 
Hmm. It's a daily, but it's triggered on every successful attack for the rest of the encounter...
2
I'm guessing it's 1d6 + Wis.
 
10:28 AM
Like a psionic one that let's you make a dream copy of yourself to use to cast spells from positions you don't want to stand in
 
@BESW Ooh, I didn't notice it triggers every time you hit
How careless of me
 
Very important that XD
 
If it were a one-time heal, then 1d6 + Wis would be massively underwhelming.
 
See multiplying the heal by Wis mod just didn't make sense
 
But 1d6 x Wis would be.... for one thing, almost completely unprecedented in the annals of 4e, and for another thing far too swingy for 4e's philosophy.
 
10:29 AM
Now letting you heal a little every time you hit something? That makes 4e sense
 
Yeah, I think it's just slightly badly written because it's the PHB1 and they hadn't figured out all their formula phrasings yet--but it's not wrong so they didn't errata it.
 
@BESW exactly why I didn't think it worked that way
@BESW is that typo in every copy?
 
It's in mine.
[rummages online]
 
Oooff
That's silly
 
@BESW Yeah, especially if it's for every hit!
 
10:32 AM
 
@BESW Wait, so it's ACTUALLY meant to be a multiplication? That's... weird.
 
Asked in 2008 and folks say it's supposed to be multiplied.
 
I mean, generally 4e is very skimpy on non-surge healing...
@BESW I posted the question but I must be going now, if you have the time feel free to answer it :)
 
@BESW they are sooooo high
 
Going to see the good folks of the colloquium
see you later!
 
10:37 AM
see ya, have a good time
 
The "multiplication" argument sounds reasonable, but copywriting abbreviations aren't universally standardized and it makes very little sense in context.
 
10:54 AM
well, the multiplication thing is just ridiculous if you get it multiple times a fight
heck, even once like,.... it's too much
I think
and it's also not in line with other powers at all
 
11:36 AM
@Ben That depends on how many zombies/skeletons.
 
@trogdor The problem is less that it's amazingly high--a ridiculously high heal is almost certain to have some waste, it's better to have more smaller heals--and more that it's completely unreliable.
 
@Ben It is well to recall that in Diablo I, which feel you are trying to recapture with that little adventure, the players start out fighting skeletons in level 1. It is usually a few levels before they hit zombies in my play experience, and bosses you don't usually find until 2 or 3.
 
If you've got a 20 in Wis (expected secondary stat at level 12), you're healing for between 5 and 30 each time.
That's nonsense of the highest order. 4e just doesn't do swings like that.
 
morning, nerds
 
11:56 AM
@BESW yeah fair enough
 
Tree of Life prop by Oskars.
 
@BESW that's nifty
 
 
1 hour later…
1:14 PM
Isn't the answer to this question simply downtime (and lots of it)?
 
brb
 
1:25 PM
@NautArch yes
 
@goodguy5 not sure why it's on hold. Not a good question, but a clear answer.
 
@NautArch no idea what you mean, it's definitely open 👀
 
1:46 PM
@NautArch yes
 
> He was a tiefling.
His name was Keith Ling.
It went downhill from there.
 
I'll bet he used a halberd.
 
@SimonH. eh... it was more of a giant key thing
It's hard to be around sneaky bards... you have to hear the thief sing.
 
 
@Yuuki weird
 
2:14 PM
Let me riddle you this, chatizens - you are having a peaceful midnight slumber in your bed when some giant dingus pulls up in a cement mixer and stands outside your window all night making a ruckus with lights and noises
What legitimate cause might the dingus have had for causing this ruckus at that particular time?
 
Did you go out and ask?
 
If I had, I wouldn't be asking you guys
But getting up and dressed would have only amplified the light-and-sound-based ruckus in the apartment, so I suffered in silence
 
Hmm... buy a megaphone.
 
@SPavel Mafia hit? you ARE in NY afterall
 
@SPavel Roll for initiative?
 
2:29 PM
@MikeQ No way, that thing was at least CR 5
 
Ready an action to attack if the dingus tries to attack
 
The dingus didn't see me, I had full cover
 
@SPavel Based on your description, I'd say that the dingus was casting a spell
 
I am receiving intel that the dingus could have been a garbage truck compressing its garbage
Why it chose to do this on a densely populated residential street, we may never know
 
Compress Garbage is a 3rd level spell. Must have been a powerful dingus.
 
2:50 PM
Huh. So you could play as an Intelligent Object in 3.5e.
And so someone made a race of sapient wheelbarrows.
> Cart
Large Vehicle
STR +6 DEX +0 CON +6 INT +0 CHA +0
Speed: Poor/Slow
HD 5d6, AC +4
Assuming no character class, your starting skillpoints are (2+int modifier)x8
You have one natural attack: Ram 2d6

From Intelligent Item modifiers, you gain the ability to speak and read any language you know. You also have 60ft darkvision and hearing, and:
10 ranks in Knowledge (Local)
Hold Person 3/day (Just fall over on them)
Locate Object 3/day
 
@Yuuki You can't.
Intelligent items are creatures, but they do not have a level adjustment.
Neither do animated objects. In fact, animating an intelligent item would not even let the intelligent item control itself, since an animated object is its own creature with its own stats.
 
3:14 PM
@BESW I*m absolutely baffled about the multiplication thing... what were they thinking?
 
@kviiri which rule are we referencing?
 
5e healing?
 
ah, that
 
@goodguy5 One of DnD 4e's Hospitaller Paladin's powers: rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/119980/…
 
@kviiri Woah that's OP
 
3:27 PM
4e is very skimpy on free healing. Usually healing consumes healing surges or is a daily power. That Paladin power heals 1d6 * wisdom modifier hit points whenever the paladin hits an enemy, which is both very strong on average and very swingy too.
Should be noted that 4e hit points are somewhat less valuable than 5e ones.
 
I'd expect it to be 1d6 for ever wisdom bonus. (1d6,2d6, nd6) rather than multiplied.

But also besw's answer about 1d6+wiz makes a lot of sense
 
@kviiri Eagle watch continues - I think i'm getting better at telling the two apart
 
@goodguy5 Yeah... I can't think of anything that adds dice based on your modifier.
 
Rolling more dice is always better
 
Like, some spells can be upcast for more dice, but that's at the cost of a higher spell slot.
 
3:30 PM
@Yuuki To be fair, pretty few things multiply rolls either in 4e.
 
Imagine how unsatisfying fireball would be if it was 1d6 times your caster level
 
@SirCinnamon Cool!
 
@kviiri At higher levels I could drop a PC or two, only to have them bounce back to full hp next round. Bloody healbot clerics...
 
@Magician That seems like pretty good gameplay though
 
@Magician Yeah and this isn't even a cleric. It's a Paladin. Ok, Hospitaller Paladin is supposed to give the normally Defender-style Paladin some extra Leader power but that's just absurd.
 
3:31 PM
Sure beats "the ogre hit me, if you need me I'll be in the living room"
 
@SPavel Oh, yeah, certainly. 4e was epic.
 
@kviiri Does Hospitaller help when calculating derivatives too?
 
@GreySage No but it helps when trying to become a colonial empire.
 
3:53 PM
The eagle is eating. tv.eenet.ee/merikotkas.html
 
@kviiri damn, that camera is HD
HD as hell
Is it live?
 
It's live from eastern europe
 
Then how is it so crisp
Usually animal live cams are presented in grain-o-vision
 
Supposedly live, at least. It's in Estonia
 
A nice camera and good connection I guess - i'm assuming its fully wired
It must be at least very near live judging by the sunset that I watched yesterday
 
3:56 PM
Ah ok, well Estonia is the closest thing that Eastern Europe has to a tech hub
 
White tailed eagles use the same nest over and over again, even across generations, so it's easy to set up a semi-permanent camera rig.
 
@kviiri If you want to write up a pithy one-line chat message with link, I'll go ahead and pin it. Enough people seem interested yesterday and today that it'd be nice for newcomers to have an easy "in."
 
@SPavel Really, I had no idea
 
@SirCinnamon Yeah, a lot of dev outsourcing shops in Ukraine/Belarus but Estonia actually has a real tech economy
My eagle is stuck though
 
@nitsua60 Yeah, I saw the link here and spread it around my office like wildfire, seems like yesterday everyone had it on a second monitor
 
3:57 PM
Follow this link to watch a beautiful live feed of a nesting couple of white-tailed eagles in Estonia. (Only available during Estonian daytime.)
7
@nitsua60 ^ That good?
 
@kviiri Thanks =)
 
@SPavel Neat! The stream does freeze frequently and for decently long periods, the cost of the high definition i suppose
 
@nitsua60 Thank you for making bird watching a natio... I mean chational pastime :)
 
I've been calling the one that is currently in the nest the male (slightly smaller eyes, more pointed sharp eyebrows) and the other larger eyed one the female
 
In my first job, I got half the office hooked on Puppy Cam
 
3:59 PM
That pine tree they're nesting in is also quite a beautiful specimen too
 
But then the puppies grew up and productivity returned
 
But to be honest I have no idea and its possible i'm seeing differences where the dont exist
 

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