@Miniman Well, that would be impossible, really. I mean, I was thinking I could disguise them so it looks like they're fighting monsters, and possibly do it with "side initiative" (i.e. good guys go, then bad guys go).
No matter how it's done, I'd assume that the players will likely pick up on it. certain monsters are doing certain attacks, exactly the same as other players...
Huzzah to @Miniman, who's taking on (part of) the task of converting existing meta.rpg.se links in posts to rpg.meta.se links. Churn away, good (mini)man!
@ACuriousMind There's something with posts where both the http/https and meta.*/*.meta portions are "wrong" that... breaks... things. I think. (That's about the level of my network/admin proficiency.)
result was: attack nearest creature - the dwarf fighter, who was rummaging through a corpse's pocket. I told him that after reading the book, he accidently teleported himself into the shadowfell, and sees a humanoid feasting on a dead body, it jumps up and attacks! (roll initiative, he wins, he hits the "humanoid")
next turn- the dwarf, the PC is all like: "so did Bob just disappear after reading the book, what are we doing, whats happening?".. Me: "You just screamed in agony, Bob just hit you in the back while you were searching through the corpse's pockets."
@Ben agreed. I hate that short-term madness result, because it halts the game in its tracks. In the scene with the barbarian and fighter, they managed to pin the barbarian down but the fighter dropped to 0
On the subject of delusions, I pulled this on a group I once ran a PbP game with, the one who triggered it was a bladesinger, and boy was I wrong when I thought the worst class that could trigger it was a barbarian
at the end of that encounter, the Bladesinger spent all his 2nd-level spells Misty Stepping, and was too spent HP-wise (because he kept trying to kill himself) to go on
@Ben but with better spell slots, conditionally and situationally higher AC, fewer hit points, and worse choice of weapons
I remember a player wanting to play a Bladesinger, he dropped the idea when I told him he had to literally sing everytime he activated his blade song, the whole time.
Oh yeah, for anyone who's interested: I tried the Destiny 2 beta last night. It was going great - "hey, is that nathan fillon? Wait, and gina torres?" then I finished the tutorial and realised that the actual game requires me to team up with randoms, and instantly lost interest.
@Miniman Saw someone asking if "anyone managed to get it working properly" (in terms of performance. I immediately checked to see if The LowSpecGamer had covered it yet (unlikely)
@Ben I was pleasantly surprised there. My laptop isn't hugely high spec, and the game picked its own settings and ran perfectly without any adjustments.
I'd figured out the clunky "scroll down, then scroll up" hidden search of the previous interface, so I like to think I'd be able to find it if it weren't truly esoteric.
> Brand of Registration®: Legendary Item. This item is the only one of its kind in the multiverse. You can use this item to bestow the same property upon any other item it comes in contact with, immediately raising its rarity and value.
> However, if the proper paperwork is not completed, the GM can confiscate this, and any other item it has touched, as well as all of your gold, and any other items of significant value.
Ok, for anyone that needs to know (and to help remind myself - because I continually run into this, and have to try and research it again) often you may find that a file can't be renamed/moved/deleted etc because it is "being used by another process", even if you have everything closed.
This is often caused by the preview panel in Windows File Explorer. There is a Process called "Preview Handler Surrogate Host", which is what the Preview Panel in Windows File Explorer uses. This process can quite often get stuck, so that you cannot access the file properly.
It also tells me "Brace yourself for random pop culture references" and "I'm more interested in being entertaining than being an effective communicator."
Playing Feng Shui 2. I personally love the stuff, in the book, but I have writers block. I got about as far to say fu techniques are the coolest schticks I ever read.
so how can I involve more senses of the surroundings into the scenarios? I Like what bedrock games has going along. but they are i...
that is what I want to behold, more destruction. then when all the templates come down and , it's your other opponents' turn you, can counter and , more maneuverable. break all the mobility. what are the Warhammer 40,000 individual races specifications?
@nwp Brilliant, I hadn't considered that. This isn't a wrestling match, it's a fight pretty much to the death, but if I had them fight on a suspended platform...
There are situations when it doesn't work anymore though. Sometimes there are newbies who want to help but can't and you don't have time to teach them all. Sometimes you just have to say "No, come back when you know what you are doing".
But yes, it should be kept up for as long as possible and every small community can start out nice.
And maybe it makes sense to spend some effort into becoming more efficient to keep it up longer, maybe even indefinitely.
More that another forum I use tends to have some people who simply aren't nice to others when they could instead just not respond and keep to providing good content.
If you really care you could try to find the actual cause. Usually those people are not just assholes but have legitimate concerns. For example they used to enjoy the forum because it kept providing new and interesting content, but eventually they noticed that new people keep asking the same questions which is not interesting and ruins their fun.
A solution might contain having better duplicate searches or lists of required reading (and a close reason if people didn't do it) to bring some of the fun back.
possibly, although this is a fantasy football forum so a lot of it is opinion-based (even if you support with facts). It's just the attitude of "you're wrong and a bad person" vs "i think you're wrong because X."
The point is you can blame them for not understanding that they are outgrowing the forum or not being nice, but that doesn't actually help solve the problem.
THe problem mostly has been a lack of moderation, and that's something the forum is trying to improve on. I'm discussing with one of the new mods now and brought up the "Be Nice" policy. We'll see where it goes :)
@nwp I don't think saying "Sorry, I don't have the time/patience to teach you all that right now" is in violation of Being Nice, unless you choose to express it in a more confrontational/rude manner
@NautArch I think SE's focus on content is crucial in that respect - most traditional forums don't have a clear goal of providing quality content to a large amount of users, and conceive of themselves more as a "place to hang out" than SE does.
@nwp for example, when Riot games started sending players their own game chat-logs, alongside a punishment for their poor behavior, there was a wave of players who'd say stuff like "Holy fishsticks, I'm a freakin jerk"(overly clean language, but you get the picture).
[PF experts] anyone with system knowledge have a moment to leave a helpful/corrective comment on this answer? It seems in need of help, but without system familiarity I don't think I can actually be helpful.
"could just not respond!?" What heresy is this??? (Is aware of irony in posting that non-helpful response when I could have just... not.) =D
@RedRiderX What are you looking for? Anything in particular giving you headaches, or are you looking for a "all in one" solution? (In which case, what's "all" in your world?)
@ACuriousMind Yeah, with respect to that I was trying to think of the Stack could do fantasy sports, but I think the heavy opinion-based nature of it would not work.
@nitsua60 I'm running my first D&D game and it's all paper right now, so I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for an app or website that helps them.
I use a 5" x 7" legal pad for combat tracking, and (this is the most important bit) I get initiative rolls from players at the end of each scenario. (Queued up for the next.)
That's actually a really useful purchase (i've found) It gives you a lot of good DM information for conditions, common rules, etc. and lets you put your monsters behind it so that others don't see. I personally don't roll behind it (I like open rolling), but it also gives you a platform.
@RedRiderX I go digital when I either (a) care about using out-of-session, or (b) care about persistence. Combat, for me, doesn't fall into either of those categories.
So my NPCs, handouts, maps, mind-maps, are all digital.
@RedRiderX Yeah--in which case when the queued-up round starts a player can spend an inspiration, or we'll modify position if something's now attuned that matters...
@RedRiderX If you really want an app, Game Master 5th edition is available in the itunes store. It has a pretty well done compendium with all of the SRD content. I mostly just use it for monster references though. D&D Beyond has a lot of the same stuff that you can use for quick references.
I'm a fan of removing that meta-beat of "KILL NOW!!!" that comes when an in-character scene is interrupted by the table-phrase "roll for initiative." Improving that on every combat is worth a tiny hassle on the ones where an advantage or inspiration has to be dealt with.
@RedRiderX what are the moments in your games when you're finding yourself frustrated to not have something handy/overwhelmed by the paper/whathaveyou?
@RedRiderX Anything that isn't in the SRD, yes. You'd have to buy the content digitally. Though you can also buy specific content piecemeal, and it will be deducted from the cost of whatever bundle contains that content. It's also possible with one of their subscription models to share content between up to 12 players. But that does require a subscription and may not actually solve whatever problem you're facing
@nitsua60 I solve this issue by instructing my players, very clearly, that combat has not started at all, and that the situation has merely gotten tense enough to warrant tracking rounds of time.
I played a game where you had a number of physical actions, depending on the average of your physical abilities, you could do on each combat round, and a number of social actions depending on your average mental abilities you could perform on each social encounter
there were no initiative during social encounters, at any moment you could just say "mmh, I want to know if he really meant what he just said..."
or "I want her to remember this sentence tomorrow, but not that I was the one saying it"
@RedRiderX I've never done a pre-built module, and prep is a two-edged sword. You simply can't prepare for what humans do :) Ability to improvise is incredibly important, but difficult to do.
@RedRiderX A published module also helps ground the conversation "look, I don't really have the time/energy/expertise/wherewithal to design from scratch, but I'd like to play, so whaddya think about playing this? It means we'll have to swallow a little bit of our 'I can do anything!' impulses, but I think we can have a good time with it anyway."
I found my technique is to not even think about the players to begin with. While planning, think about your antagonist. What's their motive? What are they trying to do? What resources do they have to do this? And you mentally walk yourself through carrying out the early part of their plan.
Improvisation is the key skill for non-module GMing. Having a good knowledge of the setting, both it's history and it's dramatic tropes, is important, too.
@MadMAxJr I've found the exact opposite. I run my games somewhat like a TV show - the players are both the audience and cast. What the characters are likely to do, how their personalities interact with the setting and each other is paramount. In estimating those reactions, I make no distinction between leads (aka player characters) and guest stars (friend or foe). Supporting cast (background NPCs) get less thought, and extras (nameless mooks) get almost none.
@MadMAxJr Yeah... Except for D&D, which I only run via the Adventurer's League format... I don't run games where players "roll" characters or don't know what the character's motivations are. I run games where characters are designed, and personality traits are part of that process.
I think one of the things discussed here (or at least that I"ve noted from being here) is to have players make a 3x5 card with their Personality Trait/Ideal/Bond/Flaw/Direction they'd like to see their character go for you to reference and include in your storytelling.
@T.J.L. We often roll the traits/ideals/bonds/flaws. For better or for worse. But it never really matters because we're mostly combat.
They get a 3x5 card at first session and I tell them to write three sentences on it that are true about their character. This doesn't overwhelm my less creative players and it keeps my extremely imaginative players from turning in a seven page short story requiring considerable investment on my part to integrate.
@MadMAxJr The game I run most frequently has something called Complications. Most of the time, they're entries from tvtropes.org and most characters have five to seven of them. They typically describe a personality trait or a relationship to another character. The nice part is that they don't provide any benefit during character design, only character advancement... Which means if they cease to become relevant due to some story twist, they can easily be dropped and replaced.
They don't have to "backed out" or "bought off", they're just dropped. And unlike the Traits/Ideals/Bonds/Flaws from D&D5, they have an actual impact on the character's development.
@T.J.L. Yeah, the TIBF form 5e is more about acute play rather than development. How doy ou react in a given situation seems to be the priority with those over how does this help me develop a personality.
@NautArch I always fill them out for my D&D characters, but they rarely come up in AL play (and I prefer other games for serious campaign play). Even when they do come up, they have no teeth. They're not part of the game mechanics; they don't do anything.
@T.J.L. That's been my experience, too. What I haven't yet done, and feel I need to try, is have players leave those blank until a session when we can do them all together, collaboratively. More like DW bonds, I guess.
@T.J.L. Just gives some guidance. Like my Wizard that i'm hoping to play sometime early next year has the flaw "easily distracted by promise of information". We've been told the world is one we start off very limited, so the moment he tells me there is a book or library or scroll, that's going to be a very strong motivator for me.
@MadMAxJr Players who can't get into a metaplot and can't come up with their own story plot don't get invited to sit at my table in my home. DDAL, which I only run at conventions, is a different story.
What is a "Session 0"?
When is it done?
What does it contain?
Is it recommended, if not mandatory?
What is each person's role (DM/GM, players, etc.)?
What topics are best discussed there?
Usually with my groups, we go directly to the meat of the game right after the character creation, but I ...
Angry GM just dropped a three part article on the notion of "session zero", apropos of that question ^^ and conversations ca. 11 July. This is not the first time I've suspected that he's in this room =)
So many panels/workshops at Gencon this year. Didn't get to go to all the ones I wanted.
Got to go to a workshop for improving your character through improv techniques. Didn't get into the paired class for improving your GM characterizations through improv.
I very much hate the seemingly pervasive idea in those answers that all games should contain an ideal minimum proportion of player input into how the campaign is setup, beyond reasonable veils/lines.
Its randaboutly calling the more "this my crafted experience"-style DMs badwrongfun.
I wouldn't read it that way at all. If the DM runs his prewritten-novel-in-the-form-of-an-RPG, and the players agree to that kind of game, the Session 0 can establish that as the kind of fun they want to have.
That's what a Session 0 is for. If a DM presented that kind of game to me, I would walk away right then, before I invested any time.
@godskook okay, but that was one answer that didn't receive as many votes. I think it's more about the idea of setting expectations. Like in our upcoming game, the DM has decided that we are starting off with basically no equipment, no money. It's going to be tricky and a bit of a slog to get started.
@godskook Correct... but the point is that it needs to be presented that way in advance. I don't think anybody is saying it's badwrongfun, but it is potentially notmyfun for anybody but the DM, so the DM needs to be up front about it.
@godskook I'd say it's more like going to one of thems uper fancy restaurants that are prix-fixe only. They come by to ask you how 'adventurous' you are and if you like certain types of food and then adjust. If they were just putting out whatever they wanted with no input, the customer could have a bad experience - which is bad for everyone.
@godskook Acknowledging that the prospective players don't want to play the game you want to run doesn't inherently also claim that the proposed game is bad.
@godskook It is absolutely ideal for the discussion to take place. The precise level of collaboration and what aspects that collaboration covers can vary, but it needs to be discussed.
@ACuriousMind "This is what I'm offering, take it or leave it" is not collaboration by any definition I'm familiar with. Could you offer me such a definition?
@godskook The fact that the players are playing in your game suggests that they all agree that they don't mind playing in a game that they don't have any input in creating. The collaboration is that the players have agreed with your requests
They could all leave it. that would be no collaboration. Because there would be no game
@godskook Is giving feedback on what they like and don't like genuinely no option there (even if they do end up playing exactly as presented)?
Everyone agreeing they want to play even without further input is a form of collaboration in the sense (some of) these answers mean, imo, even if you won't find it in a dictionary
@godskook No, the collaboration is in defining the parameters as a group of the game. If the players collectively decide "We'll play whatever the GM runs," that's still a very weak version of collaboration with the GM.
@godskook I fail to see the similarity. In the case of a competitive sports team, unless they're completely ignorant of the sport in question, they already know plenty about it.
If you give people any idea what the game is about before it begins, you're skirting the edges of a Session Zero. The idea behind Session Zero is that you bring all the interested parties together so they can discuss it together. If the only kind of game you run is prewritten-novel-in-the-form-of-an-RPG, you may not "need" a Session Zero per se, assuming you tell your players what they're getting into.
@T.J.L. to be fair, the current DM and the next DM of our major campaigns are basically running it as @godskook is. I don't love it, but that's mostly because I don't really have another option. ALthough I guess there was some discussion because we agreed to do the straight 3d6 stat roll.
@T.J.L. Oh yeah, sometimes upwards of an hour, in which I tell exactly my terms, clear up confusions, and then offer any collaboration they'd like on the choices I've left purely under their authority. Sure, if they want to get my collaboration on their character, I'll collaborate, but that's nothing to do with the campaign or the table-rules, and not a thing I even push to even do within the Session 0 framework. As long as they stay within the boundaries I set.
@godskook How is "collaboration on their character... nothing to do with the campaign"? If the characters are just there to watch the story unfold and they have no influence on it, write the novel and let the players read it at their own pace.
For Pathfinder, if it's one of the Adventure Paths, Session 0 is giving them the player guide for that series of modules. Tells them just enough about the location they're in and the kinds of backgrounds expected. But I don't actually have to meet with them to have a 'session 0'.
@godskook Of course not... but the kinds of decisions to be made should be discussed. Is the game going to feature politics? Romance? War? Are the characters expected to be good? Evil? Tragically flawed? Will fights in the game be combat-as-sport or combat-as-war? What's the tone of the game - light, dark, slapstick?
Yes. If a game is going to take place largely in a city, a player should have some foreknowledge so they don't make something like a woodsman with bonuses for being in the woods.
@MadMAxJr Unless the game goes for the "lighthearted and wacky" tone ;) I've had a lot of fun with a group of wild outcasts stumbling through the alien world of a big city
Yes, some GMs prefer to do certain things, because they're better at them. If the GM makes all the decisions ahead of time, without player input, the game is not going to be interesting (which means not fun) for people. The idea behind a Session 0 is establishing what kinds of things the players and GM like.s
@T.J.L. I actually don't talk about tone in Session-0. Combats as sport or war, I'm really not sure what you mean, in terms of session 0. Characters are mandated to be "Paladin compatible". The amount of politics versus war is determined by the characters choosing which missions they take and how they approach those missions.
@godskook Combat-as-sport is where encounters are planned for fairness, sometimes even leaning towards inevitable character victory (because they're heros, you see). Sure, they can die... but it's because of bad rolling or catastrophic stupidity, and it's rarely career-ending. Combat-as-war is where encounters are whatever is realistic; it allows for the players to bite off more than they can chew and have characters die because of it.
@godskook What about religion? Religious politics? Religious war? Are they going to come up is something that needs to be discussed. If the players have no interest in a particular kind of interaction, why should the GM waste his time planning for it knowing the players are going to avoid it?
@T.J.L. My game has Combat-as-war, then, I think? Although I try to season with a few "sport fights" that the players can show off in, moreso than be uber-at-risk.
@T.J.L. Handled somewhat in mission-selection, which in my game, isn't a Session 0 thing.
@godskook The point here is not what your decisions are, because most of us are never going to play at your table. The point of this conversation is wether or not the conversation needs to take place before the game begins.
@godskook As I understand it, Combat-as-war is when you make a world and fill it with creatures, and the players can interact (and fight) whatever they find. Which is what you do I think
@godskook If you're not willing to tailor your efforts to what your players will find enjoyable, then no... you're not collaborating. You're also wasting your time.
Why bother planning for stuff that the players aren't going to explore? That's the collaborative part, "Players A, B, and C, like elements 8, 17, and 32 in a game." Why the heck would you bother wasting time on elements 9 through 16?
@godskook The point of a Session Zero is to front-load the conversation, so you don't have to waste people's time throwing out things they won't bite on.
@GreySage Not quite, I'd say. Combat-as-war is also about the attitude that getting into a fair fight is the last thing you want to do - players who prefer combat-as-war are likely to do all sorts of sneaky stuff to ensure they have the upper hand if combat breaks out or even to avoid combat altogether. Combat-as-sport is about winning combat by the combat rules, combat-as-war is about simply being the guys who are still standing at the end.
No, its definitely still a "session", held before session 1, where some basic premises of the game are discussed. That's session 0. Although, unless you're trying to use "lay down commandments" to paint me negatively, I don't object to the phrase:
"Then you're just laying down commandments in session 0".
@godskook Not at all, but the reason for calling it a "Session 0" is that it's something the players participate in before the first game session. The first game session must be Session 1, so anything that happens before that must be Session 0. If, however, the players are not active participants - if they're just there to be given an info dump and other instructions - it's not a "Session 0", it's just "before the first session".
What is a "Session 0"?
When is it done?
What does it contain?
Is it recommended, if not mandatory?
What is each person's role (DM/GM, players, etc.)?
What topics are best discussed there?
Usually with my groups, we go directly to the meat of the game right after the character creation, but I ...
