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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:11 PM
@Tinkeringbell I can get it
27 messages moved to Trash
@DJMcMayhem Am I supposed to be able to look at Trash's transcript?
I don't think I've ever been able to do that before
Or is this a different one again...
@Tinkeringbell Not by default. Can you?
(Also, did I move the right batch of messages?)
I've been able to read Trash's transcript since I started using chat about a month ago
@DJMcMayhem Oh sure, that looks nice ;) although there were only two really problematic ones that were already handled ;)
Yep, I can... The room is read only and I can request access
@Rainbacon Interesting. I remember Trash being private but now it seems like the transcript is public
5:20 PM
Maybe there's another secret mod trash room? I somehow remember stuff being moved and me not being able to trace it
I thought that was the same one though. I had to get explicit access to it before I was a mod so that I could move things from one of the rooms I RO'd
Time to go to Meta! XD
@Tinkeringbell correct
The private one is named Trashcan.
Ahhh... No need for meta then
@Tinkeringbell I figured out why I was confused. That room has restricted write access, not restricted read access. I was just remembering it wrong
5:29 PM
@DJMcMayhem Yeah, and I was confused by the name ;)
Oh well, all sorted out now ;)
Scurries off to a different corner of the interwebs...
Oh sure...
you can run but you can't hide...
Why does the "my friend thinks I'm autistic" question have two reopen votes?
When should I use a flag vs a close vote? Is there any reason to use both?
Flag as what?
probably VLQ
5:44 PM
@Rainbacon VTC
@Mithrandir I flagged it VLQ. Curious to see what will happen
aaand it's deleted
nice work, team :P
@Tinkeringbell it heads to the LQP queue
@Mithrandir From which it is now gone too...
@Mithrandir Normally I vote to close low quality questions, but that one seemed to be excessively bad. Also when I first saw it there was a bunch of stuff in it about hitler and dimension hopping before it got edited.
5:47 PM
it was an obvious fake/troll question, which the user edited to another (bad) question right before it got deleted
> As a time surveyor with a business encompassing different space/time dimensions,
Which is why I thought a flag might be a useful thing
I missed that edit, but wow....
Yeah, such stuff is flaggable I think, but manual stuff goes faster in this case
6:01 PM
Q: When/how is it appropriate to ask someone to back up a claim they make in conversation?

NeithThe other day I was having dinner with some in-laws, and one of them made a claim which I fundamentally disagree with. I thought about asking him to explain his reasoning and tell him that I disagreed (in the hope of coming to a mutual understanding, not to start an argument), but then I thought:...

6:58 PM
@Rainbacon if you see something truly offensive, posting in chat is the fastest way to take care of it, as multiple flags will auto-close or even delete something.
7:12 PM
2 messages moved to trash
Hey, @Haunt_House, I undeleted your posts. They're pretty good, and folks deserve to see them. You might have written the answers originally, but at the end of the day, the content belongs to the community. And so you're kinda hurting the community by deleting them. Now, if they were bad posts, then keeping them deleted would be fine. But they're not; they're good.
And yeah, some folks won't like them for one reason or another, and they might not always explain why. But it seems like more people thought they were helpful than unhelpful in your case. And that's something to be happy about.
@HDE226868 I'd really like to find a way to a: keep my profile and b: be protected from seing downvotes. In blender.stackexchange that's guaranteed because i get maybe 1 downvote per a few hundred upvotes. Because it's easy to not misunderstand the approach I'm taking. Here, everybody can be negative and I don't like that. I claim that a system designed to handle coder questions is a bad fit for complex topics like psychology (to which ips boils down: how does the brain work?)
@Haunt_House I think that's kinda unavoidable here. You can't have applause without risking some boos.
On the other hand, though, we're a largely positive community. Pretty upvote-happy, as it were.
@HDE226868 it is avoidable if Se understands that one system doesnt fit every topic. Unavoidable would mean: the system is god and completely outside the realm of influence.
I'm not sure I follow what you're saying.
7:28 PM
What I'm saying is that a system designed for coders cannot be used for ips without causing problems.
Votes are a way of ranking answers and the number of users who can even cast downvotes at all is limited to users who have 125 rep or more. As such, this site tends to get more upvotes than downvotes. Plus, people largely tend to avoid downvoting at all. I don't use coding sites at all and I'm perfectly content with the system as it is... People are allowed to disagree.
so: the only way to iron out the kinks is to analyse the situation and make SE implement the necessary changes. The easiest way for me is to never try to help anybody in here again
If you want to make enemies, try to change something.
Popularity != quality
Framing us as enemies for simply disagreeing with you... seems a bit odd?
Interpreting it that literally is odd in itself
You're basically asking for a change to how SE fundamentally works. And I am really not sure why.
7:33 PM
@Haunt_House I think of this site as an experiment: can we use the Stack Exchange model for Q&A and apply it to the domain of IPS? (especially since we're in beta.) I guess it seems a bit backwards to me to suggest that SE should change their model for this site.
I'd think on IPS especially, it's important to be able to vote both ways.
we are definitely having problems, just check out recent chats and metas.. but fundamentally, yes, we are trying to figure out a way that we can host IPS Q&A on a system originally designed for coders
I don't think the Q&A system in and of itself is really that big of an issue as people think
@Ash I agree.
I think if anything, it helps because unlike a forum, we can downvote answers that aren't helpful so they're not the first thing someone sees when they get here for help.
7:35 PM
well, we close a lot of questions that people want to ask here because they don't fit into a Q&A format
@EmC Dunno. about that. I think voting is inherently flawed since the reasons for voting are incredibly varied. If it's a simple right or wrong answer as with the original model, voting tends to be done by people who really know right from wrong and the reason is factual. In here, the dynamics are much more complex and do not reflect quality necessarily
@EmC That's not unique to IPS.
I mean you can up and downvote things on reddit too but you can still ask "what should I do" questions
just as an example
That's just because not everything works with the SE model.
@Ash are you replying to me or HH?
7:36 PM
@EmC Also, the "what should I do" thing is more related to site scope decisions rather than the format not allowing it
(because yes, that was the point I was trying to make :) )
@Ash is it? I thought the reasoning was more along the lines of "SE doesn't allow list-style questions"
@Haunt_House No. I find that most people vote on instinct and what other people have voted... higher voted answers attract more votes because people assume they're correct. Lower-voted answers or downvoted ones get fewer upvotes or more downvotes because they've already attracted them...
@EmC I wouldn't call that a list style question.
(Also, lists can work, if they're bounded.)
@Ash ok.. too broad, then
@Catija social proof is a big part of voting, I agree. I see that as a major problem
I agree that questions who ask for a decision are not fitting. On the other hand, most answer to how to questions result in a lot of decisions on how to proceed.
my grammar is really bad today
7:49 PM
@Catija yeah, on the more subjective sites, people have been known to strike early to give someone a -1 to make people assume the answer is bad
@EmC A bit of all of the above, and mix in some opinion based too, since no 2 situations are ever going to be exactly alike... and what if we make the wrong decision because the facts were presented wrong/incomplete?
actually, the system is pretty easy to game. I just don't bother myself, and I don't share how with anyone.
@RichardU I can assure you that doesn't work a lot of the times... I don't know how many times I've reviewed a first post, and saw it upvoted later ...
Q: Leaving clean dishes on counter?

Shelby115My wife and I have an agreement that I put dishes away from the dishwasher when they are clean. Sometimes we're a bit heavy on dishes and she has to run the dishwasher twice while I'm at work so that we can have space and dishes for dinner that night. She hates putting certain dishes away (tupp...

8:06 PM
@Tinkeringbell as I said, I know how to game the system, I just choose not to, nor do I tell anyone how to. I'm an old school hacker. Smart enough to figure out how to do things, and wise enough not to.
@RichardU Figuring out the dynamics and then using them is possible, yes. But what really would it amount to? A number? If one doesn't crave moderator priviliges, then gaming the system is pretty pointless.
interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/12005/1599 Is this enough of a reason to revisit that back it up rule? Even active community members seem to no longer feel the need to accurately describe what is fact and what is experience it seems... But I don't feel like starting a battle if it's a lost cause beforehand...
He just edited it... :P
@Catija Grudgingly and with a promise to never do it again :/
I mean, come one... 'It's understood based on site policy. No need to say that every time @Tinkeringbell'
I think we have a problem!
Because I certainly interpret that meta as counting for every answer you write?
8:13 PM
(Is that an 'I think you're wrong' sigh?)
No. It's a "This reluctance on the part of users to just say how they're coming up with their answers shit is stupid" sigh
@Haunt_House It amounts to figuring it out. It's what hackers (white hat) do.
@Haunt_House I always try to figure out how to hack/bypass/game/wreck things. That way I can defend against them. I also mess with scammers.
@Catija Ah cool, then we're on the same page. I'll be collecting data and stamping out a meta post! :P
@RichardU Don't worry, I admire curiosity.
@Tinkeringbell oh, BTW. I got a call from a phony. IRS agent threatening to sue me. Pray for his soul. He's going to need all the prayers he can get.
@Haunt_House I actually had a prank I pulled in college help solve a problem at work. Someone ended up doing by accident what I did on purpose. When my coworkers asked me how I figured out what was going on so soon, I said "magic"
8:17 PM
@RichardU It's just: the older i get, the more important it seems to me to figure out stuff that has a positive impact for my or other people's lives. My interest in building my own q&a network is limited.
@RichardU I'll make sure to do so before going to sleep tonight ;)
Which is right about now :P
@Haunt_House it does help help others. By figuring out scams, I can help people defend against them. That's how I come across "Scam bait" websites that allow you to post the numbers of scammers to the sites and let hackers rip them to pieces. Don't do it, that would be wrong
@Tinkeringbell good night
I never referred to research in general
@RichardU sure, that helps. It's just not part of 'gaming se'
@RichardU Argh...no, must not get pulled into tvtropes...I'm only two levels deep so far, I can still hit CTRL-W...
@Haunt_House there is a rather amusing answer about how I feel about aimbots on TWP SE RIGHT HERE
8:28 PM
@RichardU did too much gaming in my life, so my unpopular answer would be: everything that helps to diminish endless addictive games is a good thing, including bots
8:43 PM
@Catija I've noticed a slight increase in 'professional help' questions lately, what would we need to do still to get this through? :)
It's really, really difficult to justify close reasons if y'all don't use custom close reasons. Using the "generic "This question does not appear to be about interpersonal skills, within the scope defined in the help center." close reason is not really helping us figure out why questions are closed. The "other" option is there because it tells the user more directly why their question is a bad fit.
The only time you should use the "not about IPS" close reason is if the question is literally not related at all... for example, it's about programming or ... cooking...
It also doesn't help users figure out why their question was closed. If the question's closed because they need to seek professional help, tell them that... the "other" reason automatically creates a comment that says whatever you put in the box, so feel free to link to meta and explain the discussion.
9:04 PM
@Spagirl We have the choice to remove it. It's created by default for every Beta site. It's useful in helping a site limit their scope... most of the graduated sites I use have removed it to make room for better reasons. It's easy to type out "this is not about [subject] at all" without needing a custom reason.
@Catija Makes sense. I for one wasn't aware that we should use stuff before we can get it :) I'll take note :D
9:37 PM
15 messages moved to trash
Cleanup on aisle TAS!
Using my nice fancy "clean" userscript :P
9:50 PM
Q: How do I talk to a work friend about their constant no-shows for catch-ups?

FodderI have a weekly catch-up with two people from my old team (Sarah and Kate) as we all committed to lose weight together, so we meet up to check on each other's progress. It's a casual thing, like meeting briefly for coffee, but without the coffee. Sarah and I didn't think it was necessary, but Kat...

10:25 PM
Q: Girlfriend keeps insulting me

anonymousSome background about me and my girlfriend: We are in a long distance relationship for more than 4 years, so we only see each other on weekends(unfortunately not every weekend), but this is about to change soon(we are thinking of moving in together) We both live in Germany We are in our early 2...

1 hour later…
11:42 PM
6 messages moved to trash
(comments have since been deleted + some profanity)
@Catija would you mind if I deleted my answer to the new question? It has some personal info of mine that I initially thought was good to share, but there seems to be a bit of drama occurring with another answer, and I don't feel good contributing to that question, at this point ...
Q: How to deal with an abusive moderator - Catija

Mark MicallefA moderator here, Catija, is being abusive by: Locking my posts Performing unauthorised edits Her offending behaviour can be seen in this question: How can I let my girlfriend know that her insults are hurting my feelings and ask her to stop? How should I deal with this abusive person?

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