The Awkward Silence - 2018-01-28

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Extroverted Main Man

12:01 AM

0

Q: How can I effectively deal with people around me?

I prefer doing certain things in specific ways (mostly avoiding taking helps for small things unless its something urgent). It has made a very specific and picky person at times. I prefer solo study but my roommates do group studies of 15 people. This is leading me to avoid the group, running t...

conversations united-states friends conflict-aversion roommates

2 hours later…

2:15 AM

“Sorry, but if you say the word ‘literally’ inside Continental, you have five minutes to finish your drink and then you must leave.

If you actually start a sentence with ‘literally ‘you must leave immediately.”

^ new rules at a bar near where I live :)

and the addendum:

“My ban is tongue in cheek. It’s fake news.

I’m just trying to shake things up a little and possibly enlighten people to be a little more respectful of the English language.

We are not Literally throwing people out. Yet! :)”

aol.com/article/news/2018/01/27/…

user15026

Didn;t they end up closing?

Soon ... I think ...

July?

hold up ... lemme check again ...

user15026

Oh, they haven't closed yet but they're going to on June 30

yeah :(

have you been before?

Continental is probably the bar where I've seen the most people get thrown out ...

user15026

Nope, I'm nowhere near there and I've only been to that area of the world once

2:21 AM

For a divey bar, they are exceptionally strict with behavior, I think ...

I see ...

user15026

I'm Canadian :)

Oo nice :)

I love Toronto, Niagara Falls and Montreal :)

^ I miss those places dearly ...

user15026

I'm nearish Toronto! Going there next weekend for a tea festival, actually

Oo awesome!

are you into bars and clubs?

hit up Richmond Ave. :)

it's a nice strip of parties, usually

are you into loose leaf teas?

user15026

I'm not really a club person

user15026

2:25 AM

I am a tea person tho

user15026

I like loose leaf teas yes

nice :)

user15026

(Also if I stop replying for a bit that's because I am playing video games with my husband)

ok :)

Hi @ChrisE

can I ask you a question about careers in software development?

how soon have you seen people start to face age discrimination?

as early as in their 40s?

or, more like later ... in their 50s and 60s?

2:45 AM

@D.Hutchinson I see the room is living up to its name tonight...

@Ash what'cha playing?

user15026

Warframe, as tend to do a lot lately :)

@Catija yeah, seriously :(

user15026

I like being a shooty space ninja

@Catija I had left a comment for a new user's answer, basically judging his content, saying that I didn't think that the OP of the question should tell that person (with the growing mole above his eyebrow) to get himself checked out by a doctor, but then I deleted it, because I'm not sure whether we're supposed to judge the correctness of the content, with comments. What do you think?

So long as it answers the question, don't leave a comment judging the correctness of it?

@D.Hutchinson interpersonal.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/comment

2:53 AM

@Catija That doesn't address the case of "This is incorrect because x."

I guess technically it falls under non constructive criticism but it seems like a very common form of comment to not have an example for it.

Oo seems to fall under ... "secondary discussion" ... I guess ... and would thus not be a good comment ...

@D.Hutchinson I've always taken secondary discussion to be talking about whether a question is on topic or not or talking about something unrelated to the answer.

@sphennings No, that's the last bullet point.

If you disagree with the answer, downvote and write an answer of your own.

@Catija What I mean is if an answer references evolutionary psychology a discussion on the merits of evo psych is a secondary discussion.

@sphennings Discussions of any sort don't belong in comments. They belong in chat.

2:58 AM

That's different than "This answer is incorrect because you forget about x" or "That's not what the OP was asking"

@sphennings The specific example being mentioned is a complete disagreement with the answer In this case, the answer says "Do X" and the comment says "Doing X is wrong, do Y instead"... that's an answer, not a comment.

ah ... I see ...

@Catija To create a contrived case if the question was "Which number is larger 1 or 1000?" and an answer said "1 is the larger number because..." A comment of "This answer is incorrect because <math proof here>" isn't constructive criticism.

I think in this contrived example the comment is important and shouldn't be deleted.

No... the answer should be downvoted and the correct answer should be written and upvoted.

I also think that while incorrect that answer does answer the question just incorrectly.

@Catija Is there reasoning for this?

3:03 AM

Not really sure where that comes in...

@sphennings That's how the site works.

Votes are all. Comments are trash.

@Catija I understand that is how this exchange handles things. I was hoping to understand the reasoning that lead to that conclusion.

I see ...

You've explained the "letter of the law" I'm hoping to get an idea of "the spirit"

@sphennings Because we get thousands of comments that are merely argumentative and "correctness" is subjective. Also, comments can't be downvoted.

When comments can't be downvoted, then they look like they're hugely popular which causes more discussion and argument.

Comment A says "this is wrong"
Comment B says "Comment A is wrong"
Comment C says "y'all are both wrong"
Comment D says "Comment A is 100% correct and B and C are wrong as is the answer"...

ETC
ETC
ETC
ETC

If your comment is the correct solution... post it as an answer and let people vote on it - both up and down

@Catija I agree that comments saying "+1" "-1" or "This is wrong" should be deleted. What about that a comment that says "Statement X you made is incorrect because <insert explanation here>" ?

Sometimes a criticism of an answer isn't an answer in it's own right.

3:11 AM

That doesn't prevent anything I just posted from happening. And most of the time here, nothing is outright incorrect, it's just not what someone chooses as the best answer.

Thanks for clarifying. Most of my SE experience has been on exchanges where it's been easier to ascertain statements of fact. It's hard as a lower rep user to know what the moderation burden of a site is. From what I've gathered it's a much more demanding job than on Worldbuilding.

@sphennings I can confirm. :P

@sphennings It's worth noting that, of the comments I delete, very few of them are the sorts you're talking about. If they turn into a discussion, I delete them by moving them to chat, so they're still around...

Me preferring people not write them doesn't mean that I seek them out to destroy. It's a grey area. But part of the problem is that deciding whether these comments should stay or not, particularly here often requires some sort of judgement of comment validity ... which isn't something within the moderation realm.

@Catija I've only been active on IPS for less than a month. Every exchange has their own culture and variations on the rules and I'm still learning the particular quirks of this site.

@sphennings Do you mind if I ask you a question about a decision you made - it relates to casting close votes and flags, so if you don't want to, feel free to demur.

3:26 AM

@Catija Sure thing.

@sphennings You flagged a question for migration to The Workplace... but also voted to reopen it. Why?

Short answer I'd forgotten about the flag by then. Once I've flagged something, it's out of my hands so I don't need to keep track of it anymore.

It's still very much a workplace question but as I'm getting a better understanding for the site I can see how it could have a place here as well.

As I've said I'm new here and trying to get a better understanding of how things work. An important part of that is being willing to change my mind.

Thanks for bringing that up.

@Catija does the fact that, over the past week or so, 6 or 7 IPS questions (and possibly more) made the HNQ's list a "good" thing for the IPS site? Is that something the CMs pay attention to?

@sphennings Sure. :)

@D.Hutchinson It's been that way since the start of public beta... and not really.

I see ...

3:40 AM

@D.Hutchinson Popular questions aren't necessarily good ones.

Popular answers aren't always, either.

@sphennings Monica's answer here is perfect, I think, for what you're talking about: workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5031/41738

> Instead of saying "you're wrong because (300 characters of strong opinion)", try to ask questions like "how do you account for (problem)?" or "what is your source for X?", or request changes ("can you explain that part about X more clearly?").

@Catija That is a better wording for sure. I chose "you're wrong because x" mostly to have a simple sample to discuss.

But see the recommendation there isn't to make a statement - it's to ask a question... I've written the same thing on our meta... if I can find it.

5

A: Why were comments pointing out potential bad advice in an answer deleted?

When we say that comments need to "ask for clarification" - we mean that. Your comment is an argument. It's stating your preferred action and why the answer is wrong. This is not asking for clarification. This is non-productive. Consider - I've just told you that your comment is wrong/outside ...

Makes sense. While effectively communicating the same thing the packaging of the speech act matters. Outside of SE I've seen "Can you cite a source for that claim?" used to communicate "You're full of it".

HAHA. Yeah.

user15026

4:10 AM

@sphennings I like this.

@Ash Have you read or are you watching the Shannara books/TV show?

4:29 AM

@sphennings Facebook is more about being popular than it is being "good" ... for users, though they are implementing changes now, after a decade of success. Maybe popularity is more important in getting something off the ground - and then fixing it later, as needed. I dunno, though ...

user15026

4:41 AM

@Catija I have not and am not. The books are on my giant tbr pile

@Ash Ah.

I read them in high school so very little of what I'm seeing in the show do I remember :P

1 hour later…

user15026

6:03 AM

@Catija I have no idea why I never actually read them, I have had a few people recommend them to me.

7:00 AM

where is everybody :(

On Earth, of course. :P

oh yeah :)

The Famous Restaurant Scene from Heat(1995)..Al Pacino vs Robert Deniro

7:19 AM

* uses special eyedrops for snowblindness *

1 hour later…

8:24 AM

@Catija I've got an autographed copy of The Elf Queen of Shannara!

@Catija And apparently the show is quite different from the books.

Introverted Meta Man.

0

Q: Why was question 9645 closed? ("Why does a man pay for the first date with a woman?")

The question Why does a man pay for the first date with a woman? was closed as off-topic. First I will quote the latest meta post about the contents of the "On Topic" help pages: Questions about the following subjects are on topic for this site: [...] the written and unwritten - b...

discussion specific-question

3 hours later…

11:10 AM

@Mithrandir Uhmmm, I'll try :)

@sphennings I found this an interesting argument for not commenting 'X is wrong' as well, we do sometimes have large answers and I noticed some people not reading the entire answer on some I wrote as well: workplace.meta.stackexchange.com/a/5008/74461...

11:27 AM

My latest meta answer: interpersonal.meta.stackexchange.com/a/2442/1599

I'd actually be interested in seeing anthropology questions... I wonder if they could somehow be made on topic. It would be an interesting break from the more subjective questions that we get here, and actually get some like professional answers.

@Mithrandir I think we for now have to focus on Interpersonal Skills and etiquette (which are actually sort-of a subset of anthropology :P )

I might post a question somewhere next week, when the child-free one has died down ;)

I'd still like to see some more historical IPS questions.

"When did the norm become..." "What was the origin of doing this..." "Why are the people in the Netherlands so direct..."

@Mithrandir :O

I don't think that last one is answerable :P

11:43 AM

Why?

@Mithrandir Uhhhmmm :P We just are :P

Yeah. How did the culture get to that point?

What caused it to split with other cultures in that regard?

When did this start?

@Mithrandir I have absolutely no idea :P

What were the causes that made this happen?

@Tinkeringbell Right. But someone who studies things like this might.

I'm just saying that I don't think it's unanswerable.

@Mithrandir I'm on google scholar right now, trying to see IF anyone actually studies this :P

11:46 AM

It's called cultural evolution.

Cultural evolution

Cultural evolution is an evolutionary theory of social change. Cultural evolution, also known as sociocultural evolution, was originally developed in the 19th century by anthropologists stemming from Charles Darwin's research on evolution. Today, cultural evolution has become the basis for a growing field scientific research in the social sciences, including anthropology, economics, psychology and organizational studies. Previously, it was believed that social change resulted from biological adaptations, but anthropologists now commonly accept that social changes arise in consequence of a combination...

> In this study the Dutch, starting from a higher level of issue-related global confidence, used questions significantly less than the Spanish to attribute confidence to the person, indicating a cultural difference.

Most questioning differences appeared to be language - as well as culture-bound. The Spanish asked significantly more for acknowledgement, and the Dutch asked more indirect questions with disclosure, but the two groups did not differ in global uncertainty and attributional confidence after their negotiations. They seemed to reduce uncertainty by adopting a passive, unobtrusive…

Still... I think that one borders on anthropology instead of Interpersonal Skills... :/

goes to propose anthropology.SE site

Would it be such a bad thing if we expanded the scope to include such questions?

@Mithrandir Hmmmm.... I don't know, I think it will

Just something to consider.

'Do headhunters still exist' is an anthropology question but has nothing to do with IPS ;)

@Mithrandir If you do, I'm in :)

11:53 AM

@Tinkeringbell "How do I tell a headhunter that no, he can not have my head... and that I want it back?"

@Mithrandir Hah, that would be one of those 'too much fun' questions :P But yes, that seems more related to IPS ;)

antrophowhat?

@Magisch anthropology

the study of human societies and cultures and their development.
the study of human biological and physiological characteristics and their evolution.

Anthropology is the study of various aspects of humans within past and present societies. Social anthropology and cultural anthropology study the norms and values of societies. Linguistic anthropology studies how language affects social life. Biological or physical anthropology studies the biological development of humans. Archaeology, which studies past human cultures through investigation of physical evidence, is thought of as a branch of anthropology in the United States, while in Europe, it is viewed as a discipline in its own right, or grouped under other related disciplines such as history...

12:20 PM

@Mithrandir I filled out the sheet.

What shall I do now? Do I need to save it somehow or can I just close the window?

It'll save automatically.

Yep, I can see them. Thanks!

spam: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/9690/2625

not an IPS solution (move out): interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/9689/2625

you are welcome, Mithrandir

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported answer: How to stop my ex wife from pressuring relationship between our son and my new partner by Sandra on interpersonal.SE (@Tinkeringbell)

4 hours later…

Extroverted Main Man

3:58 PM

2

Q: How to invite terminal ill / very sick friends to my party?

My grandparents will in a few months be celebrating 65 years of marriage. The anniversary is celebrated with a big party for the extended family and my grandparents friends. Many of my grandparents friends are old people (85+) with bad health conditions. We know of at least two friends, with s...

invitations illness

You around @Tink?

Half... What's up?

in The Closet, 9 mins ago, by IPS Comment Bot

Unfortunately, this question appears to be asking “What should I do?”, which the community has determined to not be a good fit for $SITENAME$ Stack Exchange. We can’t decide for you what to do; after you determine what you want to do, we can help you with your goal, but we can’t make these decisions for you. Sorry. However, if you'd like some input on how to invite those relatives, on how to write the invitation so that it takes into account their health problems, I'm sure we can help you, so please edit your question accordingly then! — Tinkeringbell 14 secs ago

That SITENAME only works within the script it was written for.

Otherwise, you'll have to manually replace with "Interpersonal Skills".

@Mithrandir Ah... :) Thanks :) (I did edit that comment, I noticed it too ;) )

Anyways, question is good to go now ;)

Glad the OP reacted so quickly. Retracted my close vote and upvoted (one close vote remains). In my opinion, a good question now.

4:10 PM

@AnneDaunted Same here... that was as quick as can be! :)

always refreshing when people respond constructively

4:49 PM

@Mithrandir yep

5:43 PM

Uhhmmm... do we as a community have any guidelines on such side-notes?

> Side note: Asking whether or not terminal friends should be invited is against community guidelines (don’t ask what to do, ask how to do it), but if you have any experience indicating it is a bad idea, please feel free to share.

Was just edited to this question: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/9693/…

Secondary questions are asking another question. It should probably be edited out of the question since it makes it broader.

@Tinkeringbell it's unnecessary. It should be an edit explanation, not a note.

And the second half is specifically trying to get around our requirements.

... I feel the same frustration when we tell people to limit it to a specific culture and they add a note saying "I'm from culture x but welcome responses from all cultures".

Extroverted Main Man

6:28 PM

0

Q: How to ask girls out as a homosexual?

It's a fact that the majority of people are heterosexual. So if I meet a person at the street I first assume that he/she is heterosexual. How can I ask a person of the same gender out, if I don't know if the person is homosexual. Just asking, is IMO a little bit strange because the chance that...

relationships gender

6:41 PM

Voting to close as too broad (but unclear what you are asking would do as well).

@AnneDaunted I thought unclear, and it feels like an odd question...

Yes, it's puzzling me as well

Didn't become better

@Catija Hmm... edit explanation yes, if someone else than the OP were to edit it... to me, it also felt more like 'bypassing requirements'...

@ExtrovertedMainMan now it's hypothetical :/

It may even have become off topic now

7:10 PM

@Tinkeringbell Yeah. I've edited it and added an explanation as such. They haven't rolled back or anything yet.

@Catija Sounds good ;)

@ExtrovertedMainMan That... is a really oddly phrased question :/

Anyone have thoughts on this answer: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/a/9684/36

@Catija Hmmm... that's a difficult one... I for one would still describe the man I'd be dating as 'boys' even if they're well in their twenties :/

And it's irrelevant...

> You're making a lot of (possibly unfair/unkind) assumptions here. We're not here to berate the OP for their use of words, we're here to answer their question. Please be sure that your answer focuses on the question and not on lashing out over some implied slight when using "girls" instead of "women". Considering it's common for even women to refer to each other as "girls", I'm not sure that your assertions are correct or warranted and they're largely irrelevant.

Does that make sense?

@Catija Does to me... Edit out the assumption? that would leave the advice of 'deal with it with humour, here's a list'...

Not really a good answer either.

So, I'd say that one can be downvoted ;)

7:17 PM

Nope. No explanation, really... just a bunch of examples.

3 hours later…

Extroverted Main Man

9:58 PM

1

Q: Should I explain myself while apologizing?

My current situation is that. I got annual feedback during December which I joined few months ago. They were more than impressed with my coding skills, but they were not so much with my soft skills. Two of the feedback I got were: 1) I was too demanding when I joined the job because I asked the...

work-environment apologies

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Jan '1828

The Awkward Silence

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