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12:00 AM
Did your dad already confess it was him who broke the server? :-P
My dad works at Microsoft. There are thousands of potential suspects.
As an Adult, this is exactly what adulting is.
Not long after my company moved into a new office, our internet went down for at least half an hour. It's amazing how little a company full of software engineers can do without internet. We were sent home, and since then, improvements were made to make sure we would never have our internet go out (unless AWS goes down or something, which has briefly happened).
12:21 AM
Do you think that posting an index/challenge link list of all of the advent challenges to meta PPCG would be on-topic for PPCG? I think so since it's about PPCG itself, but I'd like to ask here before posting (asking on meta would probably work better but it seems kind of strange to ask on meta whether or not I can post a thing to meta :P)
12:47 AM
meta-meta applies to meta.
ok :P but like still I don't think it's worth posting a meta post just to ask if I can post a singular meta post
seems kinda pointless, ya know :P
1:24 AM
> On the first GET of /christmas, the server sent to me
A few lines of plain, static text.

On the second GET of /christmas, the server sent to me
Two tracking cookies
And a few lines of plain, static text.

On the third GET of /christmas, the server sent to me
Three style sheets
Two tracking cookies
For a few lines of plain, static text.

On the fourth GET of /christmas, the server sent to me
Four megs of bundles
Three style sheets
Two tracking cookies
For a few lines of plain, static text.
I did super good on my calc for once :P
@HyperNeutrino Yeah, it's usually better to just ask the question instead of asking if you can ask a question. In this case, however, what you want to post is not a question. Hence, I'd say it's probably a good idea to ask Meta about the possibility of making an Advent Challenges meta post.
Ah okay. This might actually be applicable to future uses as well in case someone else decides to make a challenge series :P
Honestly, this server needs to more relyably send back data.
1:42 AM
@Pavel Source?
2:28 AM
I like the first GET a lot more than the last... I thought it's supposed to get better ;-;
Q: Challenge Links for Challenge Series: On-Topic for PPCG?

HyperNeutrinoAs some of you may already know, there is currently a challenge series called the Advent Challenge series, posted entirely by me (so far). The purpose of this meta question is to determine whether or not posting a link list would be on-topic for posting to meta. For example, I would post a brie...

3:12 AM
Q: The Missing Digit

Joshua CrottsQuestion: Given a string of random integers from 0 to 250 exclusive [0, 250) with one digit missing, find the missing digit. That is, a string with 0 delimiters (something like "23,54..."; is instead "2354....), and 250 numbers, there is one random number missing. Test data is included. This is...

3:27 AM
even github is joining the net neutrality protest
@Pavel lost it at "FIVE GOLDEN PINGS"
4:13 AM
@Pavel doorknob & alex have been inactive for a while now, they were pretty good mods
I don't think you were there for when they were active
@Riker I was (for Doorknob, not Alex), but what I said is meant to reflect that.
hm, ok
Mind you, if anyone should be a mod, I think it should be Mego.
or DJ
if elections were today I would probably vote to replace Alex&Doorknob with DJ&Mego
though I did already vote for mego last election
4:18 AM
@Riker DJ too, absolutely. But if I had to pick one, it'd be Mego.
@Riker they 'joined' a long time ago but it's just the banner that's new
@Downgoat well yeah
@Pavel hm, ok
@Pavel I'm flattened. Wait, no the other one. Flattered.
@LeakyNun I'm off to bed right after I write this message
but here's a little challenge for you
a(1) = 1, a(n+1) = (a(n) + 3) / (a(n) + 4)
School: pffffttt you don't need to know about recycling. Leave everything in a hole.
4:22 AM
find a closed form for a(n)
4:43 AM
@orlp I decided to give it a shot. I got KDErMyoqKG4tMSkpLygxKzQqKihuLTEpKQ== (base64-encoded for spoilers)
@Mego you shouldn't have said it was encoded.
should have made people figure it out themselves :P
I mean I encrypted it. You have to make a GUI in Visual Basic to decrypt it.
@ThomasWard The == at the end kinda gives it away :P
@Mego not really... not if you use a really obscure encoding :P
Seeing = or == at the end of a string of ASCII alphanumeric characters is a dead giveaway that it's base64-encoded. Even if it isn't, base64 is the first thing to try.
Are there any easy to use encryption schemes in coreutils that aren't as obvious as base64
4:48 AM
@Pavel expand it to be non-coreutils but instead the Python3 base64 library and then that becomes a "yes"
@ThomasWard Howabout "Something I probably already have installed and is easy to use from the command line"
do you have python3 in your system?
Sure, but a python -c with multiple statements isn't easy to type
mm, true.
ascii85 is a fun encoding though :P
C^0KDDk>;$Eiox6FDNl9G%6}6ZY?n>DF should be equivalent to @Mego's b64 encoded string in decoded form
That is better. No ==.
4:55 AM
1 hour later…
6:09 AM
I just bought something with bitcoin for the first time. I felt like a wizard for about 15 seconds before waiting for the transaction to go through for an hour.
The "How to juic Avocad" question never actually had the text "Avocad" in it.
6:26 AM
Can some moderator clean up the comment section in this question‌​?
6:47 AM
^ Well, it's deleted now.
7:40 AM
Hello, I'm in a bit of a pickle
My undergraduate thesis proposal is due 23:59 of the 15th
And my case study doesn't have a case to study :')
Do you know of a system that is prone to relatively complex bugs
Or even a language parser or KotH controller that could use some checking?
My idea is to use TLA+, a formal specification language, to test if the system is correct (for my purposes, without bugs), but I'm having trouble finding that software system. Preferences are systems that deal with concurrency and stateful messes
7:54 AM
@Sherlock9 Pick any webserver :P
In fact - use PHP
@Mego Got one in mind? :D
ye gods
That may actually work
And kill me
PHP is synonymous with mess
The thing is, since this is based on its own language and based on the specification of the system, but not the code itself, PHP may not actually come into play
The bad habits it breeds like rats will
... Best of both worlds really :D
Still do you have something in mind that I can poke around in?
I'm going to have to be relatively specific in the proposal, unfortunately
7:58 AM
Or for a more classic example, you could look at pthreads in C
Or for a more modern example, the PPCG v2 codebase :P
I was actually about to ask sheepish smile
For a while, not having imports in a specific order would cause all sorts of hell to break loose. I fixed that so that imports are mostly independent of the order, and only minor hells break loose when things go wrong.
Is it okay if I use the codebase for my thesis though? I think I only need to the code that I wrote for the testing into the proposal, but I'm not sure what license it's all under
Now the SQLAlchemy ORM is giving me a headache
@Sherlock9 Sure. It's licensed under MIT, so go nuts (as long as you give us credit).
Also if you find any errors, let us know :D
Oh absolutely!
On both counts
On the credit, I'm required by law :D
On the errors, well that's the whole point
8:03 AM
And if you have any questions about our mess, ask us in the chatroom
It's mathematical debugging :D
Thank you a million times :D
No worries - it's benefitting us, too, so everyone wins
in Charcoal HQ, 25 mins ago, by Processed Meat
Q: WorldEyeCam is a CCTV Security products distribution company?

user8955641We proudly offer 1st class technical support for our customers we serve with the complete understanding that it is you, the customer that matters to every successful business. If you haven't already learned the hard way, you will understand that it takes more than just a website and the ability t...

A spammer posted spam on Meta.SE with the spam tag
1 hour later…
9:25 AM
@orlp letting the n-th term be ((a_n)x+(b_n))/((c_n)x+(d_n)) gives us 4 linear mutually recursive sequences, which shouldn't be hard to solve
where x is a0 unevaluated
that even works for any starting value a(0)
@LeakyNun That is certainly much more difficult than other approaches
@Mego 1. but more general :P 2. just a proof that I can do it
Induction is quite general, too :P
but you need to have a closed form before you can do induction
Err, not induction - I don't know what the formal name for it is, but my prof always (incorrectly) called it an inductive approach
9:33 AM
then your approach is just mine with x=1
and you should have 2 mutually-recursive sequences instead of 4
I didn't use any linear algebra to solve it - just simply recognizing a pattern
p(0)=1, q(0)=1, p(n+1)=p(n)+3q(n), q(n+1)=p(n)+4q(n)
and then a(n) = p(n)/q(n)
That's not at all what I did
but it works :P
[p(n+1);q(n+1)] = [1,3;1,4] [p(n);q(n)]
Sure, but it's a lot of extra work
9:37 AM
(x-1)(x-4)-3 = x^2-5x+1 = 0 --> x=(5+-sqrt(21))/2 rip
(1,1),(4,5),(19,24),(91,115)... I don't see any pattern
Go back to the original definition. a(n+1) = (a(n) + 3)/(a(n) + 4)
1 - 1/(a(n)+4)?
Nope, slow down
Give me a recursive definition for a(n)
you've just quoted it
That's the definition of a(n+1)
I typed that wrong
We can say a(n) = (a(n-1) + 3)/(a(n-1) + 4)
Now define that in terms of a(n-2)
9:42 AM
so a(n+2) = (4a(n)+15)/(5a(n)+19)
and we're back to the sequence
4 mins ago, by Leaky Nun
(1,1),(4,5),(19,24),(91,115)... I don't see any pattern
I mean, a(n) = (4a(n-2)+15)/(5a(n-2)+19) if you like this better
it doesn't make any difference
Now do a(n) in terms of a(n-3)
you'll just get the sequence back
Oh, I see what you mean by earlier
Wait how on earth did I arrive at my solution when I did it completely wrong?
9:46 AM
a(n+1) = 1/(1+1/(a(n)+3))
we start with 1
a(1) = [0;1,4]
a(2) = 1/(1+1/(3+1/(1+1/4))) = [0;1,3,1,4]
wait we aren't finding limits though
the limit would be [0;(1,3)]
and it does have a limit
So my logic was flawed in how I came to my solution, but somehow the solution is still correct
the limit would just be the solution of x=(x+3)/(x+4), i.e. x^2+3x-3=0
@Mego ????
I did my substitution wrong, but still got a valid solution somehow
how do you know your solution is valid?
Because I tested it
9:51 AM
It lines up with the recursive solution for n in [1..1000]
Working on a proof by induction now
Oh I'm an idiot
My solution only seemed correct because I was accidentally using integer division
And the sequence is always <= 1 so integer division was hiding the differences
10:46 AM
Non-integer sequences?
11:13 AM
math \o/
@LeakyNun I do
Starting from the second term, the difference between the numerator and denominator of a_n is the denominator of the last term.
11:36 AM
@LuisMendo Congratulations!
11:48 AM
@LeakyNun the limit is easier yes
12:02 PM
@Mego I don't believe that's correct.
@LeakyNun yes, now solve it :)
The formula given by Mathematica is very complex, I don't think I know of a way to solve it.
12:18 PM
@Sherlock9 Thanks!
@user202729 I know two ways :)
12:32 PM
The "inbox" and "achievements" links on the nav bar stopped working for me today. For example, I see a red circle "1" indicating I have a notification, and clicking on it does nothing. I'm using Chrome on Windows 10. Anyone else?
2 days left to save the OEIS challenge... Sorry for giving such a terribly complicated sequence
(It works on Edge)
@LuisMendo Works fine on Safari
Weird, It worked for me yesterday, same system
Well there was a Windows update...
And BTW Congrats for !
12:34 PM
Thanks :-)
@LuisMendo Mine are working properly on Chrome 62 + W10, but my windows didn't update yet.
@J.Sallé I'll restart during lunch time and see if it helps
12:55 PM
Q: Solutions to Google's doodle on kids programming

SurbToday's Google doodle is about Celebrating 50 years of Kids Coding: The goal is program the path of a little bunny so that it can eat all the carrots. For instance, this is level 4: Green pieces = go one step forward Blue pieces = turn left/right (but stay on the same block) Orange pieces = lo...

1:18 PM
@Mr.Xcoder That's usual, and definitely not the first time. Me again, or @NieDzejkob or @HyperNeutrino or ChristianSiever ? Or somebody else?
@TFeld Does it? It's a question about (atomic) golfing in a very domain-specific (very much non-turing complete) programming language. — Martin Ender ♦ 13 mins ago
Is it really non-Turing-complete?
If it has any chance at being TC, you need to consider the level layout part of the program.
Or maybe the input, I guess.
Basically, the only way you can express a branch is to have the bunny run into the edge of the level.
Q: Tree Traversal Problem (maybe)

fred russell My apologies in advance if this problem has a well known solution and it belongs in stackexchange. Maybe the answer is obvious but if it is, it is not obvious to me. What I need to do in the above is I need to loop through the lists. Think of the numbers as hypotheses. If the list has only on...

@user202729 It's simple once Hyper fixes his A000109 answer :P
Huh? Which answer?
1:40 PM
@user202729 There's apparently an error in one of my OEIS challenge Proton answers about 60-70 answers back and I have to fix it or else the chain breaks 60-70 challenges ago :P I can probably fix it, but I think there's a backup Mathematica answer posted by KSmarts in case mine broke. I'm not sure whether or not it was that one.
@HyperNeutrino Already upvoted your comment, great reply :P
I wanted to say more but I didn't want to violate the Be Nice policy too much :P
Apparently I've just read the "be nice to off-topic" meta post.
Yeah. SE is quite strict about its Be Nice policy which applies to everything. I feel like this kid is pushing it too though :P
Do you think it fits SO? Or Computer Science?
1:43 PM
Maybe CS. For SO they'd need an attempt first
@HyperNeutrino Just checked, there is a backup Mathematica answer, but needs a few thousand bytes of padding to make it fit in the chain :P
That's totally fine :PPPP but yeah as long as the chain doesn't break. It would be sad to have the chain break and invalidate 60+ answer lol
also people might be mad at me if like 8 of their answers are invalidated :P
> I'm not certain that this works, either
wouldn't that mean that the backup answer uses up mathematica and some other answer would break the chain instead?
Would someone mind converting the image from here to something not-imgur? I can't see the image :P
1:46 PM
@HyperNeutrino prntscr.com/hje1gw
@HyperNeutrino Use a proxy.
(e.g., hide.me/en/proxy )
ah ok thanks!
yeah i should try a proxy. i can't find a functional proxy extension for chromebooks though :P
That one is an online proxy, you don't need anything but web browser. For some reasons it doesn't work with Github CSS. archive.org works too.
multiboot linux from usb
that might work
@user202729 ah okay, i'll try that maybe. thanks!
1:48 PM
I think (Dennis? Or someone else?) said you need hardware modification?
lol nvm my school board wifi blocks that proxy
Unacceptable. Let me look for other ones...
@NieDzejkob Yep. Both Mathematica answers have gone. Why couldn't this have been seen in 30 answer?!?!
@HyperNeutrino tor?
1:52 PM
About proxy sites... can you see this or this or this?
the second one works but the first one is ERR_CONNECTION_RESET and the third one says link expired or something weird like that
@HyperNeutrino A bit of clarification: In your second adventofcode challenge, the elves try hard to escape from Santa, and are intelligent (perfect logician)?
At least your school doesn't block those.
essentially, you have to run through all possible elf moves
1:55 PM
And the elves move first.
@user202729 well it blocks the first one; sometimes it blocks it and sometimes it resets the connection
but at least the second one works :P
@user202729 yes
[About proxy] So it's this one.
that one is the ERR_CONNECTION_RESET one
it works until I try to access a site. then it gets reset lol
oh never mind, I tried using the American server because I'm in Canada. The German server works :P
Q: Find the smallest number of participants with resulting percentages

sondra.kinseyPrograms often list outcome statistics, such as this: 54% of participants received an award 69% of participants got a promotion 85% of participants increased their salary Your task is to, given a set of percentages of arbitrary length and an arbitrary precision to which these percentages are ...

@NewMainPosts Ugh, the last three challenges have all been closed
2:05 PM
ideas/tag suggestions for Advent 5?
No idea. | Let's hope that all the challenges are solved before Christmas. Currently solving #2.
But don't make those easy because of that.
I'm planning on maybe making every 5th challenge slightly more significant almost like a checkpoint challenge, and then having 25 be a big KoTH challenge or something like that
@HyperNeutrino I've got a good idea for an Advent challenge, but have been meaning to write up a Sandbox post for it for ages and kinda don't want to give it away :P
Stupid markdown
ah ok :P if you make a sandbox post for it I might have you post yours on a day where I'm a bit busier :P
I should start pre-planning challenges so if I'm every really busy I can just copy it from my backup challenges and post it
At the same time, I want to post all of the Advent challenges so the entire thing is under one user, but at the same time I also want to let other people contribute to the series :P
Umm, you've had arithmetic, graph-theory, matrix and ascii-art
@HyperNeutrino How about array manipulation (the other one was pretty much centered around matrices)?
2:11 PM
hm maybe
Lol, your last three challenges have the scores concatenated as follows: 666 (each has a score of 6)
Satan Clause is coming to town. — LiefdeWen Nov 30 at 12:47
Well, seems that I caused extra confusion
(see the comments section for details) Anyone can explain that for me?
idea: santa now needs to move his presents into storage space so that he can transport them more efficiently on christmas eve, so given a list of numbers representing present sizes, move all presents larger than a certain size to the front of the list (stable)
2:17 PM
Announcing my newest golfing language (also useful as an APL library), Stencil. Similar to Mathematica's CellularAutomaton but much shorter. E.g. Game of life in four bytes: 3∊me
@Adám 0/10 GoL should be 1 byte :P /s
ooh that looks cool :D
@Adám Also, should be alright at this challenge, correct?
@cairdcoinheringaahing I could add a built-in for that.
I realize now that in order for the storyline to stay consistent throughout the entire series and for it to logically conclude on Christmas, I need to keep having random system failures in Santa's plan or else the storyline will close too soon :P
also I probably will make every 8 challenges a checkpoint challenge (8, 16, 24) and then have 25 be a much bigger challenge (maybe a KoTH)
2:23 PM
@HyperNeutrino Murphy's Law :P
sure :P
"Oh no! While Santa was loading his sleigh, he dropped a present. Calculate how much force he will have to exert to lift the present?" :P
I hope TIO has bracket highlighting ... although it is probably not a good idea, e.g. for this programming language.
That's probably too easy, something like g × w×h×d?
This bytecount was used already... linkNieDzejkob 3 mins ago
uh, bytecounts 326, 267, 190 and 85 in the OEIS challenge were used twice, and none of the answers were backup answers...
Too bad. My fault too.
2:26 PM
@user202729 Besides, it's "391 UTF-8 bytes, 391 chars"
Oh wait, tabs and spaces :/
two of the answers are mine, one is user202729's and one is Engineer Toast's
(This has been solved by itself, even without rebooting)
but, the problem is, even if we get unique bytecounts, the chain breaks
There are some circuits already.
Uh uh. I've just realised that at some point I'm going to have to make a decision about this aren't I? :/
2:29 PM
I'm currently modifying the snippet to notify about this...
@user202729 circuits?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Hm, I didn't build in a way to take rules from input. The solution is (m∊S)∨e∊B for each case (with generations in Options).
Something like that about bytecount. (HyperNeutrino can use proxy now so I use imgur)
@NieDzejkob Well, one option is to revert the chain all the way back to this answer
Or, remove the extraneous part (in the graph above, the 4, 5, 6 ones)
@cairdcoinheringaahing another is to change the bytecount of my answer and change the next answer in the chain to compute the new sequence with the same bytecount - repeat for all 4
@user202729 this would look better if it were a directed graph
2:35 PM
@NieDzejkob Hmm, that's a lot of editing
@cairdcoinheringaahing but I think it's the least amount of disruption to the chain
@NieDzejkob Most likely
I modified the snippet to warn about this, should I edit the new version into the question now?
[Unrelated] Any idea why this has 3 downvotes? That's a lot.
@NieDzejkob Edit the snippet? Yes
@user202729 Well, it is a post about downvoting
2:37 PM
@user202729 that's a good question. I feel like people took it as an invitation to do what I specifically said to not do
Well... that's unfortunate for you.
yup :P
advent 5 posted
@NieDzejkob So, just looking at the first duplication. If we change this to be 266 bytes, then change this Husk answer to calculate A266 in 29 bytes, the first dupe should be fixed.
CMP: Which is easier: A or B?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Keep in mind that it might not be possible to golf the Emoji answer
Now I'm debugging my Mathematica solution to Advent #2. For some reason it always output False.
2:42 PM
@NieDzejkob Adding a byte is acceptable as well given the available byte counts
@cairdcoinheringaahing but then only one of the sequences you posted will be possible
@NieDzejkob Yeah. The question is to add or remove a byte, depending on the new sequence and it's difficulty
so wait the proposed solution is to change the bytecount of an answer and then change the sequence solved by the next answer without changing its bytecount?
@HyperNeutrino Yeah, in a nutshell
2:46 PM
And we've got to do that for 4 answers :P
Q: Advent Challenge 5: Move the presents to the transport docks!

HyperNeutrino<< Prev Thanks to the PPCG community, Santa has managed to remanufacture all of his presents and after the assembly line, the presents are now ready to be moved into the transport docks! Each of Santa's transport docks only holds a range of present sizes because the transport sleighs are specia...

wait the challenge is dead by tomorrow lol
@HyperNeutrino hurry with Proton, given the output of your answer before len(), it's 30 minutes of coding to get A103, the next sequence
oh yeah true
@cairdcoinheringaahing 228 is used up already
2:49 PM
ಠ_ಠ I got the wrong sequences
if i let my proton answer break the chain then the second-last answer is mine so i win :D
@HyperNeutrino Go ahead, I just won't accept it :P
@HyperNeutrino you read the rules wrong
@NieDzejkob did i? whoops
i wouldn't be that mean anyway :P
2:50 PM
@HyperNeutrino the rules are crafted so that it is impossible to break the chain and win
oh good :P
(unless you answer twice in a row)
\o/ Something about the question works!
+1 lol
anyone here know Husk?
2:54 PM
You could ask for help in here
the OEIS challenge should have its own chatroom, IMO
If no-one want I can do the next sequence.
@NieDzejkob Creating now (might as well)
But I think I should do Advent #2 first. The OEIS still has 2 days left.
@user202729 there's a bigger problem right now, and the next sequence is easy if you port Hyper's solution to A000109 to a different language, but it doesn't work for higher numbers right now
3:03 PM

 One OEIS after another

For discussion about One OEIS after another (codegolf.stackexc...
Should we move the messages across?
Oh wow, just executed $('.user-container').remove(). Is the chat still work (for me) now?
Apparently yes.
@user202729 why what? why there's a bigger problem? why the next seq is easy?
@HyperNeutrino well, at least the comment/answer upvote ratio has dropped from 2 to 1.5
$('.monologue').remove() seems to be a better option.
3:08 PM
just ran that too and it looks so weird, almost as though TNB were a new chatroom :P
@Neil that's true lol :P
@user202729 God that looks weird :P
3:20 PM
Looks like that I have an extraneous And. Now it should work. (Advent #2)

For next sequence? Probably so. Wrong answer now...
Yeah unfortunately all answers are borked
no for fixing this
You've been fixing this for 2 months...
Let me take a look.
3:24 PM
@user202729 Nah, he found it was wrong a couple of days ago
@cairdcoinheringaahing Oh ok. Anyway... which approach are you (@HyperNeutrino) using?
A: Add an edge to a graph without becoming nonplanar

Misha LavrovThe approach you're taking is much more complicated than the easiest approach to generating the graphs counted by A000109. So if you don't mind, I'll give you an easy-to-implement way to generate those graphs, rather than an easy-to-implement way to check for planarity (which I'm not sure exists,...

I think I might need to check 3-connectivity, that may be why my answers are always too high
Passed all test cases now except the one with ... (for Advent #2)
Now, golfing...
How to change font size in answers?
Other than headers I don't think you can.
<sub></sub> for small text
3:35 PM
you can do <sup></sup> and <sub></sub> for sub-and super-scripts. For smaller inline text, you can do <sub><sup>...</sup></sub>
@Pavel Only on main.
@HyperNeutrino Can I require that graph is 1-based (there is no vertex 0)?
Oh, challenges can be pop on top when I edit deleted answers? Or only for me?
Hey guys, some feedback here would be appreciated :)
My code broken for unknown reasons...
It just worked on TIO... Frustrating.
3:51 PM
It's not time for joking now.
whoa there mr. serious
So the reason was I added Clear[f]...
@Poke this image is always pertinent.
I ran into that this past sunday
Worked again, good.
3:53 PM
Just ran chsh -s /usr/bin/pwsh. Hopefully goes well.
ended up being floating point arithmetic throwing a wrench in the cogs
tfw 10.99999999999999999994 == 11
or whatever
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Stephen LeppikFind Hybridizations code-golf chemistry Covalent bonding uses so-called "hybrid" orbitals to form tetrahedral, octahedral, etc. formations out of the s, p, and sometimes d orbitals. Their naming conventions are pretty much the concatenation of the component orbitals; for example, the hybridiz...

@Poke I think that's one of the worst feelings.
I don't like that... I have recently (not right now) read the SO question ...
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