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8:00 AM
Oh, so you do sleep
 
Does anybody know this cool theorem?
Or maybe it's a conjecture.
I'm having trouble finding its name
Basically, given a continuous curve such that the endpoints continue indefinitely in opposite directions
it is always possible to 'slide a stick' along the curve such that both endpoints remain on the curve
 
I didn't get anything you just said
 
Okay, example time
(Am I allowed to just spam a bunch of pictures?)
 
8:06 AM
@Mithrandir meh
 
(isn't the sound of squished spammers lovely?)
 
sounds like the sound of a banhammer hitting soft flesh
 
Okay, picture incoming:
I made it extra small so that it wouldn't take up much space
But basically the red line segment is being moved along the black one, and the question is 'Is it always possible to move it along?' give any initial black line
Is anybody still here?
 
nope
 
I'm not. But yes, it can be moved.
 
8:17 AM
Do you know the name of this theorem/conjecture?
 
Think of the function (left point, right point) -> air distance.
 
Given that I had no idea what you were talking about, I think you already know I don't know it
but it is cool
 
mhm
And then?
 
The distance between the left point and right point is 0 along the diagonal from (start, start) and at (end, end) and diverges to infinity away from the diagonal, and is continuous as you move the endpoints along the black line.
 
since it seems you're free to move the stick to the concave side of the curve at each local point, it almost stands to reason that there'd always be a choice that allows it to touch
 
8:23 AM
Then you just need to know that the boundary between any two continuous regions on the Euclidean plane is continuous.
 
@JohnDvorak What diagonal is this?
 
@Wen1now Well yes, there are always at least two points in a circle of radius length :P
uh IDK if that helps :/
 
I am fairly certain this is still a conjecture, although I may be wrong
 
@Wen1now plot the endpoint distance in the state space of each endpoint's distance along the black curve.
then the distance is zero whenever the endpoints coincide.
 
The endpoints never coincide though
 
8:26 AM
@Wen1now Not necessarily? Like if the red line joining the endpoints of an arc that's >180 degrees :P
 
Wrong. They coincide in the state space, it's just that area is inaccessible for the red line
The red line is constrained to a curve in the state space where the distance is a given value - and you know the relevant parts of the curve are connected because the curve separates the diagonal from the space infinitely far from it
 
Oh, I think I get what you're saying
Something like x-axis is the first point, y-axis is the second point and then to each point on this plane we assign it a value, based on the distance between the first and second point?
 
This also proves you can never reverse the red line as that would have to move you on the other side of the diagonal.
yes
 
I'm not 100% convinced this works though
 
Why?
 
8:31 AM
 
I don't understand the question
 
It is quite obviously impossible to get the red line form the top to the red line at the bottom, yeah?
How does your argument fail for this case though?
Actually, wait a second
I think I see why now
 
ah, nice case. The issue here is that the curve asymptotes don't diverge
In that case, the region where the endpoints are too far is disconnected
If you make this ear on an otherwise straight line, you can transfer the red line just fine.
 
25 mins ago, by Wen1now
user image
 
This also shows that in the general case there should be only one way to perform the transform.
 
8:41 AM
I can just about see why
 
Also, if the black curve is closed but the red line is shorter than the largest circle inscribed into it, you can still make a full loop with the red line. Same argument, except on torus.
 
That's pretty cool
 
Another observation: if the black curve is a polyline, the red line's path in the parameter space is a polyconic.
 
I don't understand what we're talking about anymore
 
sorry
Actually, what I said might not even be true
 
8:47 AM
What does polyconic mean?
 
umm... when is the red line allowed to cross the black line?
 
The red line is allowed to go wherever, as long as
a) It remains a fixed distance
b) Its endpoints are on the black line
 
Ah
 
And we want to move it along continuously
Speaking of continuous stuff, there's another question which I've been bothered about whenever it comes up:
Let f(x,y) -> R be a function. Suppose f(x,y) is continuous in x for all y, and f is continuous in y for all x. Is f continuous?
 
Gut feeling says... no
since that's what usually happens with these weird problems
 
8:50 AM
Yes. Hint: given arbitrary epsilon, can you compute the delta from delta_x and delta_y?
 
I may have misremembered something but I think the answer is no
Again I cannot find the source and it really bugs me
 
Counterexample?
 
I can't remember one, I'm googling right now
 
Perhaps you were thinking of differentiability?
 
8:54 AM
@Wen Would you consider x, x to be true or false in your latest Zendo rule?
 
What's my latest Zendo rule?
 
@Wen1now login-gated
 
Oh
Okay, screenshot then
 
I'm writing a PPCG question, so just need to know, that's all
 
I'll give you the code
 
8:56 AM
@Wen1now don't need the code
 
They provide a claim without a proof. Rejected.
 
just need to know whether a degenerate triangle counts as a right-angled triangle
 
It returns true
 
Actually, I'll just say the integers are distinct to avoid confusing people
 
If you have a better proof then appeal to authority, let me know.
 
8:59 AM
Do you have a proof of the opposite?
 
I think I do
Assuming X, Y are each members of a metric space
Is that the condition I want?
 
Yeah, I guess
 
Is there such thing as a 'non-discrete metric space'?
 
actually you would need a proof of the statement that it must be continuous
 
Follow from the epsilon-delta definition of continuity, then derive delta(epsilon) from delta_x(epsilon_x) and delta_y(epsilon_y).
I assume x,y are reals.
 
9:01 AM
I assume that too
 
or at least isomorphic to reals locally everywhere
 
But, the thing is delta_y may depend on delta_x
 
all I need is a counterexample, say let f(x,y) = xy / x^2 + y^2, f(0, 0) = 0
 
That's not defined in the whole neighborhood of f(0,0)
 
I think it is defined everywhere
 
9:04 AM
It diverges around x = 0
 
But given any x,y it is defined
 
Did you mean to add parentheses around x^2 + y^2?
 
yes, too late to fix now
 
In that case it's still not defined at (0,0)
 
f(0,0)=0
 
9:06 AM
Now we're talking :-D Nice function
 
this is fairly counter-intuitive but also a fairly common example in multivariate calculus classes
which is why I know it
 
@ffao now, what if f(x,y) is continuous for all ax+by=c for each a,b,c? Is f(x,y) now necessarily continuous?
 
still no
I think f(x,y)=x^2y / (x^4 + y^2) works here, f(0,0) still 0
 
@ffao I'm not seeing any discontinuities
 
I assume parentheses around x^(2y)?
 
9:16 AM
the limit (x,y)->(0,0) f(x,y) does not exist
I meant x²y
 
OK, WTF is that function?
 
oh, I see why now
along the valleys/ridges
 
for you to guarantee that the function is continuous, you have to show that it is continuous for all paths
I don't think there is any subset that works
or at least my professor did a very good job in scaring me away from assuming such things :)
 
@ffao okay, different question - if we omit precisely one path from being continuous (WLOG x=0), is the function necessarily continuous?
 
now I think the answer is yes, but this would need proof
 
9:25 AM
@ffao That is a really cool function
 
I think it's still yes if we omit a finite number of paths
 
What is a path again?
 
> Valid koans are functions of two variables. x*y is true, x/y is false.
 
^How are you even supposed to get a rep graph like that?
 
bounties
 
9:32 AM
Okay, I just realised
 
@Wen1now who's that?
humn?
 
Hmm. I don't think I should say
 
@Wen1now it's public knowledge, I could get something to trawl through and look at the graph
It's the raw data
Oh dear
I've got 8018 on Puzzling but only 8013 on Puzzling Meta
What can you get docked 5 rep for?
 
9:51 AM
User upvoted but their account later got deleted?
Alternatively: caching
 
@Sp3000 I've reloaded several times, so I don't think that's it
@boboquack I mean on Meta Puzzling but not main Puzzling
 
Hmm
 
Could still be caching, maybe rep on meta is refreshed less frequently
 
Should I be trying to get more rep?
 
The easiest way to gain rep is by doing things that I would consider detrimental to the site, so probably not
 
9:57 AM
Like spam-posting 3/4 questions a day?
 
Yay, I'm >1/2way to fanatic
(for probably the fifth time)
 
Okay, I'll design a nice puzzle. Time to get working
 
@Wen1now that sounds familiar...
@Wen1now or... you know... you could work on the puzzle I asked you to test-solve
 
(I actually have no idea how that sounds familiar)
 
rep is copied from main to meta on a (hourly?) schedule, so you can see a lag
 
10:00 AM
Do you still want to work on that (big) puzzle
 
yes
 
I feel like I'm (way) overusing these brackets (or parentheses (what do you guys call them?))
 
@Wen1now I call them 1-tuples
so the last thing didn't parse for me
 
Hmmm
 
@boboquack Downvotes :P
@boboquack That shouldn't prevent the last one from being parsed though
@boboquack :| so many ambiguities never mind
 
10:03 AM
:| so many @boboquacks
 
I didn't know you could ping yourself
(I'm joking, never ever take me seriously)
(unless it's maths related)
 
@ASCII-only You can also reply to yourself
@ASCII-only And also future ping
 
@boboquack Huh?
 
@Wen1now Remember to always have a space before the opening parenthesis otherwise it's a function call
 
You can?
 
10:05 AM
(or unless I sound serious) [end self-discussion]
 
@boboquack No I was just kidding :P
 
@ASCII-only Which language is this?
 
Future pinging, lol
 
:39932390
 
@Wen1now well function call is in most languages :P but (foo) is a valid tuple in VSL IIRC
 
10:06 AM
Let's see if this future ping works...
 
@Wen1now 1. 392, 2. I've tried oracle pings, they don't work
 
@Wen1now people post messages elsewhere...
 
I know that
 
@boboquack You can't ping the same message?
Dunno
 
Or precognitive pings I guess?
@boboquack You can't precognitively ping the same message
 
10:07 AM
Oh yes, you can!
 
Nice, you pinged yourself
On the same message
 
:399324015 Let's try...
oh
whoops
 
wrong message id :P
 
@Wen1now ?
 
what
 
10:08 AM
Um
Hey that's my message
I win
We should so do a raffle like that
 
@boboquack No you didn't just make an infinite loop
@Wen1now inb4 person in random other room wins
 
'Next TSL message which has a thing ending in '0000' wins
 
We'll be here a while
 
We can just spam sandbox :P
 
(but you have to claim it as well)
 
10:10 AM
@mod/ro please clean up our mess :P
 
Does a set of nested brackets (like this (well, (technically) those brackets weren't nested) make anybody else feel bad when they're not balanced?
 
@Wen1now Yes. Please don't
@Wen1now Also brackets are [] (this is to fix wen's extra paren
 
I'm just going to tidy up my bracket mess)'
There, done
@JohnDvorak oops
 
umm
where did the titletext go?
 
10:14 AM
@boboquack Submit a bug to mother meta pls
 
0
Q: Short and small FIVE letter word

Anurag I am a five letters word, find, a part of me when digging around. Remove the first and last letters, to become a First Person Shooter. Remove the first two letters, and I will handle versioning for better. What I am? Note: No partial answers please.

 
oops, ninja'd
 
Oh wait that's why, you need the link to the page not the image))
 
I'm just going to do a quick bracket/paren count
We need more (
 
10:16 AM
Wait what
 
Oh wait no
 
Hmm, does anyone want to run a chat scraper for TSL?
For a chat DB search like at data.stackexchange.com
 
Totalling stuff wisely gives me 22 ( (including comics) and 21 )
What's a chat scraper?
 
Really? I get 31 ( (including comics) and 33 ) (but 3 ) and 1 ( are on the starboard and one of each are from Maths Puzzles in Random Languages)
 
@Wen1now Maybe not the right term, basically gets the entire chat transcript and puts it into a DB (
 
10:19 AM
Well, you've been here longer than me then :)
 
So, to balance things - ((
 
((I discounted ) in :)
No no no, )( is invalid
You need to put them at the start of the page
 
@boboquack ()( is not the same as ())
ninja'd (
 
())( is a palindrome (random fact of the day)
 
10:21 AM
)))))((((( now what?
 
))))) I'm here to fix up the back half :p
 
>{]{)><](||ll>){
 
@boboquack yay invalid brain-flak
If you want to find more brackets then look at Charcoal's source (not that Charcoal)
 
I will assume that those brackets have been neutralised
 
@Wen1now Not the one in the message that should never exist
 
10:24 AM
Which one?
 
@boboquack this one
I tried to edit it and just missed the countdown
 
10:37 AM
GameN all
 
What does that mean?
 
 
1 hour later…
12:02 PM
@Wen1now Good afternoon/morning/evening/Night all
 
 
1 hour later…
Sid
1:05 PM
@n_palum Hey! Been a bit busy?
 
@Sid Yeah classes started back up and I'm a few courses that have been really heavy work loads already
So between classes, homework, two jobs, sports, something's gotta give a little :/
 
Sid
Yeah. Just, don't stress yourself too much.
 
0
Q: I can move without a mind. What am I?

rsp I never approach directly, Yet I am most powerful up close. I’ll make you choose ‘tween two lives; Save one, the other dies. I can jump without a body. I can move without a mind. Let me roam free and end up behind. What am I?

 
Easier said than done ;)
 
1:28 PM
0
Q: Find the following number

Burak Mete9.1 - 03112011 9.5 - 05221960 8.6 - 03282005 ?.? - 03281964 Can you find what should be the left side value for the 4th line?

 
*mutter*
 
Sid
2:33 PM
Let me make a poor riddle today...
 
A poor riddle makes no cents
 
2:52 PM
Um... @Sid? Is your riddle as obvious as it looks?
 
0
Q: It is a riddle of today?

SidToday is a very significant day. Here, people died. And yet, many were saved. Emergency call is the same as today. Death and destruction is the hallmark of this day. A number is what it is. Catastrophic number it turned out to be. Ten is the mean for this number(s). Exact 16 years to this day, i...

 
I opted to let today pass unmarked by anything as potentially seeming trivialising as a puzzle. There are people on the site old enough to be personally impacted, even if a lot of people may not be.
 
I don't think I'd be offended if I'd had friends or family die in the attacks -- but I do think it's not really much of a riddle.
 
Probably a safer idea
 
^^
It's clearly not meant to be insulting or disrespectful. I don't think it would be offensive to anyone. But I do agree that it's not much of a riddle.
 
Sid
3:01 PM
Yeah, as obvious as it is..
And yeah, it's a riddle. Just by the skin of its teeth. Since, there is an element of wordplay in it..
 
I mean... sure by definition
But if I posted something on new year's day, along the line of "It's two numbers, both are one, it starts the year, also it's today", I doubt that anyone would say that's much of a riddle
 
Sid
Oh, wait, people can get offended by something as trivial as a riddle? I didn't think much along that line. I probably wouldn't have done it if I had known it could be offensive to people.
 
I doubt there's anything in it that could be considered offensive. Possibly insensitive. But if someone would be offended by it due to the date, then they would probably be offended by anything today.
And it's not nearly as tasteless as np's fake suicide note puzzle
 
...You mean Avigrail's?
 
Oh, I don't think your riddle is offensive or disrespectful and doubt many people would, but it could be a little off-putting when it's on your mind as something that is painful to remember as it is, and then find it as the subject of a riddle on a site you go to for fun / escapism / whatever
Out of an abundance of caution I decided not to do a puzzle on the theme of today, though I've been known to do that for other occasions.
 
3:07 PM
@Deusovi I think Mike may mean this: puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/52724/…
 
^ Yes, that's the one.
 
Oh, right.
 
0
Q: I am feeling, a joy and a beautiful place

Shubham Rana Transformation, inner space and body's grace From the eastern belt, Beauty mesmerizes the complete space Compilation between 200 bce and 200 CE was my base Name me if you can: I am a feeling , a joy and a beautiful place Hint:

 
@MikeQ If it's bothersome, delete it, I don't mind.
 
 
1 hour later…
Sid
4:22 PM
@ffao hinty?
 
4:42 PM
I'M BACK
 
Hi, Back. I'm Rubio.
 
oh hi dad
 
Sid
Hi, BACK. I'm Sid.
Darn. Ninja-ed.
 
Sid
5:10 PM
@Doorknob That crossword has stumped me.
 
5:21 PM
I should actually take a look at it at some point.
I did notice that there aren't many crossing letters, though.
 
Sid
Yeah. And the clues are hard.
At least, I felt so. Like, too many bits in them..
 
5:43 PM
I can never work out what the definition is
I've solved 4 I think but completely stuck on the rest
 
Sid
That is better than me. I have solved like 2 or 3 only.
 
I have ten, I believe. it's hard.
 
doorknob's designed the clues very well - most of the words in the clues could act as indicators of some sort and I remember for one of them, a word I was convinced was an anagram indicator was actually the definition.
Amazing clues: only advice is its a bit too hard :)
 
6:10 PM
24h hint: I used an abbreviation that, while allowed in multiple newspapers, is not particularly common.
 
Probably member
or perhaps harbored and earlier is the indicator?
 
6:35 PM
0
Q: What should I do? -- short riddle

Paige MeinkeFirst understand that a child now can, Soar into sky and fly. To do so is fatiguing, not to the child who is squealing, With merriment as they enjoy the ride. For the answer above use the bottom two, put them together and you'll know what to do. Firstly: In her land is where you'll be, Smack ...

 
7:08 PM
doorknob is kicking my keister
 
haven't heard that one before :P
 
Sid
I think 21 is PI+VO+TAL.
 
heh. I actually just got that myself
 
You could say it was a pivotal piece of solving the puzzle
 
7:35 PM
slowly but surely
I don't get some of these at all
 
Sid
I don't get a lot of these...
 
13 and 26a, even with (I think) the right answers I don't get the wordplay one bit
 
Sid
13 has LEANED hidden there.
Except, there is no hidden indicator.
 
full right side done, finally
 
Re: 26a... I was reading up on cryptic markers since I -understand- the solutions but can't find them, and the fellow noted that sometimes things can do double duty.
 
7:39 PM
But the wordplay and def are supposed to absolutely be separated, is what I've always been told
Here the def is being used as wordplay also, which ... that doesn't seem right
 
"prisoner" is the indicator in 13
 
oh did I miss that entirely?
 
geez. I did
lol good find, thank you
 
Ah, I get 26a now
"Decrepit side" + "street" = cut short
 
7:46 PM
oh damnit
 
Or, in cryptic terms, SIDE* + ST[reet] = DESIST
 
yeah just got it
thanks again
I had the ST before, I didn't notice SIDE*
 
@rubio 22 I believe is INTENSE
But then 27 across doesn't fit so appearently not...
 
I'm very nearly positive PARAGRAPH is right
 
Sid
Nah, PARAGRAPH is right,
That was in my notes, as well...
 
7:49 PM
And now I don't even know how I got intense...
 
going afk a while, back soonish
 
... You haven't written in "TOGETHER" yet... :|
 
Sid
Still, wondering how Rubio has not filled that in..
20 is probably NO DOUBT.
 

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