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7:35 AM
Did you try compiling in a different folder? A bit less serious: Did you try uninstalling Windows and installing a working OS? Is the file or folder write-protected? — Skillmon 10 mins ago
@Skillmon: You are mean ;-)
8:16 AM
@ChristianHupfer it's called honest.
@Skillmon of course if the OP is trying to write to a system directory to which (s)he has no access, installing linux won't help much.
@DavidCarlisle it would. You could run the build with sudo or the like (or give your user access to that folder -- bad choice)
@Skillmon ah that stunning increase in security that you get from running all commands under sudo :-)
@DavidCarlisle looked a little more into what is going on. If I use \NewExpandableDocumentCommand and have expl3 code in the body of this it fails. Perhaps I need to just make the body a call to a macro in stead? More testing to make a proper mwe
@Skillmon anyway if you uninstall windows you lose access to MS paint and then how would you generate any graphics files?
8:26 AM
@DavidCarlisle didn't consider that! You might use Gimp, but honestly who knows how to draw a line in Gimp. I don't. I bet the developers don't know, too.
@daleif to make a bookmark there has to be an expansion path that leads to just a sequence of characters (either the default path or a specific bookmark definition for the command) so in general it can't work there has to be a specific "string" definition for the particular command that you have in mind. Only in very simple cases can it be arranged that the command only works by expansion and only expands to characters, that is it has to be \def\foo{hello world}
This fails as soon as the .toc is read, no hyperref just \NewExpandableDocumentCommand
\NewExpandableDocumentCommand\Fref{ s m }{




\section{Hmm: \Fref{cha:1}}

@daleif sorry that's a different issue (the issue that group_begin isn't a character would bite you later, that is just that (in 2e) the toc isn't read with expl3 syntax so you need \ExplSyntaxOn before \tableofcontents (or write that to the toc file so it is applied automatically But then you need to protect all spaces in the toc as well
Reassuring to know that cleveref does not naively work in this context either (haven't looked for other macros in their arsenal)
Best solution is problably to manually use \texorpdfstring or make a poormans version of \Fref that can be added to \pdfstringdefDisableCommands
8:46 AM
@daleif that's odd, this ought to work (but doesn't as a space gets written after the \group in the toc file. I'll trace later but no time now (or I could ping @JosephWright to debug it:-)


\NewExpandableDocumentCommand\Fref{ s m }{




\section{Hmm: \Fref{cha:1}}

8:58 AM
Don't bother, I think it might be too dangerous to start messing with expl3 inside the toc. I'll see if I can figure out a way to make some expansions work inside the bookmarks.
9:21 AM
@DavidCarlisle The loss of MS Pain(t) would be a tragic one, indeed. Isn't there a Shakespeare drama on exactly this topic: "MS Pain(t)'s Lost"? or the "The Merry MS Paint(ers) of Windows"? ;-)
@PauloCereda What about your thesis? :D
@ChristianHupfer Writing it. :)
@PauloCereda What is it about, anyhow?
@PauloCereda Ah, I thought it would be finished already ... :D
9:30 AM
@ChristianHupfer nope. :)
@PauloCereda Damn! ... I mean... What a pity!
@HaraldHanche-Olsen oh the title is something along the lines of abstraction mechanisms in textual transformations.
And according to @ChristianHupfer, there's also a new theory about the brontosaurus. :)
@Skillmon Drawing a line in gimp is easy: hold down the shift key
@PauloCereda @HaraldHanche-Olsen: And be assured: It is his theory on Brontosaurs ;-) There's no doubt about it ...
9:33 AM
@samcarter ooh iGimp! :D
@ChristianHupfer which is mine, and I own it, and what it is too!
@PauloCereda Albatross!
@ChristianHupfer Notlob!
@PauloCereda Dinsdale!
@ChristianHupfer Ni!
@PauloCereda Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch...
9:38 AM
@ChristianHupfer Fetchez la vache!
@PauloCereda I wish to report a burglary....(using multiple pitches ;-))
@ChristianHupfer ooh Raymond Luxury Yatch! :)
@ChristianHupfer: I am expecting @JosephWright to appear out of nowhere and tells us to stop because this is rather silly!
@PauloCereda Well @JosephWright isn't the 'I stop this silly sketch - Colonel', however ;-)
@ChristianHupfer oh
Yeah, why don't you guys try to do something useful like a fish slapping contest?
9:44 AM
@PauloCereda And now for something completely different: Don't mention the war....
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Well, I don't have a fish that reaches to Brazil in order to slap @PauloCereda with it ;-) Unfortunately ... :D
@ChristianHupfer Can't you make one with TikZ?
@ChristianHupfer you are mean
@HaraldHanche-Olsen TikzFish? I should write a new package about it, regarding the huge amount of requests about drawing fish with LaTeX & friends
@PauloCereda <3
@ChristianHupfer <3
@PauloCereda Quack!
9:53 AM
Q: How to draw a fish?

CarLaTeXI would like to draw an image like the following. This is what I've done so far (I used tikz, but any other package is welcome): \documentclass{article} \usepackage{tikz} \begin{document} \begin{tikzpicture} \draw[fill=blue] (.5,0) rectangle (4,2); \draw[fill=red] (1,1) ...

@HaraldHanche-Olsen ^^^
@CarLaTeX Sigh...
@Jasper quack!
@PauloCereda Ubuntu is switching back to GNOME and discarding Unity. I hope one day GNOME switches back to panels and not the shell. =D
@Jasper You have lots of alternatives, like MATE, Cinnamon, XFCE, LXDE and even GNOME 2 backend. :)
@PauloCereda I think that LXDE is merging with Razor-Qt to form LXQt.
10:02 AM
@ChristianHupfer LOL
10:19 AM
@CarLaTeX Sorry, I don't think that there is something to LOL about. I find that those questions get too much attention and many other ones and answers to them are underrated by far.
@samcarter Thx, but my intention wasn't to ask how to draw a line :)
hi guys
I'm trying to add a figure to my latex document
which is not large
it could fit in the top or bottom of the page
but although I'm using \begin{figure}[ht] \end{figure}
this doesn't work it is put in the last pages of the document
10:39 AM
@user8469759 perhaps there is another float, which is pushed to the end of your document of the same float-type. They are not allowed to pass each other.
@user8469759 If you don't want something to float, no one forces you to use float. You might put the image and caption in a minipage.
@user8469759 If there is no other float, you could try [!htbp] instead of ht. The exclamation mark changes some internal parameters to allow the placement easier.
@user8469759 Also, you should perhaps allow more placements (htbp). The latter ones are only chosen if the ones prior to that don't fit.
let me try with [!htbp]
@Skillmon The order doesn't matter.
it doesn't work
@user8469759 I don't think there is much we can do to help without more information. Maybe the figure isn't as small as you think it is? That's just one of many possibilities.
@user8469759 Are there other floats of the same type prior to the one you want to place? Are they moved?
10:50 AM
@Skillmon what do you mean with "other floats of the same prior"
@ChristianHupfer I don't agree, there's too much sadness in the world, a laugh every now and then is healthy. I also think DEK would approve. The underrated answers would be underrated even if there were not any funny questions, the presence of the latter ones is not the reason of the underrating of the former ones.
I have more figures, yes
if that's the questiion
@user8469759 yes, that was the question.
@user8469759 But did they move to the end too? Remember, if one figure moves to the end, all the figures behind move too.
@user8469759 latex-floats do have a number corresponding to a type. All figure-environments are of the same type (you could add more environments to that type). If you invoke one figure which could not be placed immediately, all remaining floats with the same type can't be set prior to that one.
10:52 AM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen yes
@user8469759 Is the figure you declare as "fitting" the first one which gets moved to the end?
@user8469759 So the first figure you have to look at is the first one among the figures that moved to the end.
I'll remove one of this figures, and see what happens with the others
@user8469759 Good thinking.
the others are moved to the last page as well
10:55 AM
(I'll be gone for an hour, can't help further with this.)
@user8469759 You don't have to remove it, I guess, but don't use a float for this one particular figure. And allow the placement specifier p for all your figures.
@Skillmon I'm not sure I understand
should I just do for each figure
@user8469759 don't use \begin{figure}[ht] but \begin{figure}[htbp].
for all figures?
@user8469759 yes for each figure.
10:57 AM
with !?
@user8469759 not necessarily. Don't use ! at first.
@user8469759 you might use it when you create the final layout on an individual basis.
@Skillmon namely?
@user8469759 If you are sure that a figure does fit on that page and really want to try (while still using floats), you could make latex to be less restrictive on float placements with the !
ok doing that, it moves the figures in places where I wanted
still not sure why I've to do that
but it works
so far
@user8469759 it is generally a bad idea to leave latex not enough options to chose from.
@user8469759 if you don't leave latex the possibilities of float pages (the p specifier), it always tries to put the floats with something other than floats on a page. And that doesn't work out all of the time. If this happens, latex has no other choice than to clear the float queue at the end of your document (or chapter, depending on classes and packages).
@user8469759 for a bit more control of float placements, you might take a look at the placeins package, or use floats H specifier (which I personally try to avoid).
And again, no one forces you to use floats. You could as well do something like:



\captionof{figure}{Captoin text}
@user8469759 Oh, and if you intend to use the same position specifiers for all figures, you might as well omit the optional argument on each float using that selection and define the defaults.
@user8469759 take a look at the wikibook for a bit more and better structured information on float placement.
11:13 AM
@ChristianHupfer Instead, I agree with you in the case of answers posted just for fun whereas the question was serious, like in this case: tex.meta.stackexchange.com/q/7330/101651
@DavidCarlisle With some low level TeX coding (looking at hyperrefs implementation of \auroref) I have been able to make a version of \Fref from my unreleased xfancyref such that \Fref{cha:test} gives Chapter~\ref{cha:test} in a bookmark. It is not as flexible as the normal \Fref but that'll do
@DavidCarlisle believe it or not, I gain a big increase of security by running the startup script of my browser using sudo :)
12:03 PM
Here is a little challange. I always mess up expansions, here is an MWE, then I'll explain what I'm trying to do
\def\testB#1{Arg: #1}

\def\XtestB#1#2{|XArg 1: #1; 2: #2|}



So \Test works as it should. Now I'd like to carry an extra argument along (using an aux macro to hold it is not allowed here)
As we can see from the output we need extra expansion and non-expansion at the second case in \XTestA such that \XTestB ends up seeing {B} in the \XTest*{B} case. I cannot quite seem to get it right as to how \expandafter I need to jump over {#1} and expand after it, and whether or not we need \noexpand in the mix as well.
12:35 PM
@user8469759 you do not have to use the option, if you do use the option you are (mostly) just restricting the places where a float may be placed. \begin{figure}[ht] is far more likely to go to the end than \begin{figure} as the option says the figure may not be placed on a page on its own or with other figures (and can not be placed at the bottom of a page)
@daleif will look later no time now but \expandafter\XtestB{ is same as \XtestB{ as { is not expandable
1:02 PM
@DavidCarlisle Tried the \edef\x{\noexpand\XtestB{#1}}\expandafter\x trick, works in the text, but not in bookmarks. So we probably need a cloud of expandafters
1:34 PM
My head hurts:
seems to work, at least in this small test case
Nope, does not work in lager test case, back to testing
@daleif #1 had better not be more than one token, then.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen ahh, that is probably it
If it's important to do a lot of processing in TeX's mouth, maybe you should look at the old classic Lists in TeX's mouth from TUGboat, 1990.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I'll have a closer look. Main issue here is that we cannot use \edef, hyperref bookmarks throw up immediately.
2:33 PM
@HaraldHanche-Olsen You know tugboat articles from the early 90's by heart?? I'm impressed, and feel like a total newbie...
2:59 PM
@mickep Well, not by heart, but I actually have used that one, quite a bit. Not so much recently, but in the past I did. And not so much for the list capabilities as for the functional programming aspect, making it easier to process stuff in TeX's mouth.
Be sure to write documentation for your own packages. It's no fun to delve into the code to figure out how the damn thing is supposed to work.
BTW, there is a misprint in the definition of `\Listize' in the article, with an extra left square bracket in the definition. Email me if you want a TeX file with the macros defined in that paper. There are 42 of them. Hmm, where have I seen that number before?
@AlanMunn Yep, I have loads of code lying around that I no longer understand.
@AlanMunn I take it this is your experience too?
Oooh, I just discovered it's in TeX Live! texdoc lambda-lists
@HaraldHanche-Olsen Yes, luckily this is a very tiny package. And I actually wrote up partial documentation but it wasn't complete. It's a package that I use extremely infrequently which is why I couldn't remember how it worked.
@AlanMunn No wonder. Writing documentation sucks, especially after all the hard work implementing the package.
@HaraldHanche-Olsen I'm actually pretty good at doing that, and don't mind doing it. In a previous life I wrote a lot of documentation as part of my job. I usually try to write a draft of the user documentation as soon as I have a working prototype.
3:36 PM
@daleif arranging that expansion is exactly what xparse does:-) It consists of loads of macros like \swapthings for each argument type. here:



\def\zz{xxx}% will get expanded before calling \tstb (see \bbb)


Sep 3 at 11:01, by David Carlisle
@PauloCereda that's why we have docstrip to get rid of those pesky documentation comments
@DavidCarlisle :D
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- okay, clearly my proofreading isn't perfect. just to be sure, please confirm that this is what the second line of the definition should be: {\Listize@#1,\relax]} (where the closing bracket is contextual only). i will mark this in the editor's copy of the tugboat issue, which will be deposited at the museum of printing, haverhill, mass, after i retire.
@ChristianHupfer -- i've removed my comment from the question also, so you can remove your "removal" comment.
Is possible to add ttf to texlive package?
@barbarabeeton Yes, that is correct. And don't fret, you were young and reckless then. Relatively speaking. ;-)
@HaraldHanche-Olsen -- oh, i still try to be reckless, but it's a lot harder now. (thanks. erratum marked.)
3:48 PM
@MarekKaski What do you mean with texlive package?
@TeXnician I would like to put my font into texlive distribution. normal use in linux
@MarekKaski See f.i. ctan.org/pkg/libertinus
@MarekKaski do you mean you want to add it to your local installation, or that you want texlive to distribute the font to everyone?
@TeXnician Wha i can do to to put my font to texlive?
@barbarabeeton Done a 'long time' ago...
4:31 PM
@DavidCarlisle for everyone
@MarekKaski just submit the font to ctan give it an open source licence that allows it to be distributed by texlive then it will probably just get added to texlive but if it isn't added after a week or so, mail texlive @ tug.org and ask it be added.
how know metafont . i found questions similar my questions
Q: Minimal example of Metafont file and how using it

Neumiasz ErI need create simple utf-8 characters font with 4 glyphs. characters = a,ą,ā,ȧ I would like to use it in normal latex roman font (mixing standard rm font and my). Where is working minimal example of parameters font in metafont. *.mf file. How seting kerning between glyph and how defining acute o...

@daleif -- you commented on tex.stackexchange.com/q/390257 , asking for details. i'll forward what i know by email.
4:50 PM
@barbarabeeton Ty z Polska?
5:05 PM
@MarekKaski -- i did attend the tug meeting at bachotek (and enjoyed it immensely), but have to admit that i understand very little of the polish language, although i can stumble through a bit with a dictionary.
@barbarabeeton aha, ok
1 hour later…
6:08 PM
@MarekKaski i'm not sure that question is answerable
2 hours later…
8:26 PM
@egreg do you know anyone who could give a short sharp description of the effect of \setcounter{secnumdepth}{5} ?
@DavidCarlisle effect? Becoming a lawyer.
@DavidCarlisle Once I saw a document that numbered up to the 13th level.
@egreg all within the abstract, no doubt.
@DavidCarlisle, when do you plan to release the update with this fix? — bp2017 3 hours ago
@barbarabeeton @JosephWright if I add the thing for the lack of warning for overfull boxes in alignments, then push out amsmath this week?
@DavidCarlisle -- i don't have a problem, as long as what you post doesn't behave any differently from the version you sent to me to test. i'm at this very moment updating the ams web pages that say where to get the current amsmath to say that you guys are now in charge, not the ams, and amsmath should now be gotten from ctan or tex live.
@DavidCarlisle Fine
8:49 PM
@JosephWright texlua build.lua ctan what could go wrong...
9:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle :)
@JosephWright (@barbarabeeton) gone to ctan
@DavidCarlisle -- figured as much when i received your notice. thanks.
9:58 PM
@DavidCarlisle what was the class option of KOMA script changing section-headings to serif fonts? (If I remember correctly you know this)
A: Why does KOMA-Script mix serifs and sans-serifs?

esddUpdate Since version 3.12 there is an undocumented value standardclasses for the heading option defined that changes the font of all section heading levels to serif. Note that with headings=standardclasses also chapterprefix=true is set and the sizes of the headings are changed similar to ...

@TorbjørnT. thanks, but I was asking for a funny package option. Something like egregdoesntlikesansserifsectioning.
@Skillmon Oh, that one. Right. egregdoesnotlikesansseriftitles
@TorbjørnT. thanks :)
@Skillmon clearly you have me confused with that italian bloke, I know nothing about koma
10:10 PM
@DavidCarlisle Sorry, I thought it was you who used this in an answer. But I was obviously mistaken.
@Skillmon I may have used it in an answer (I don't recall). Lack of knowledge isn't a reason for not answering:-)
@DavidCarlisle I don't think you're that senile. Well I forgot the option although it was really funny to learn it.
A: Cyrillic text is not displayed under \paragraph (with KOMA-Script)

David CarlisleThe document is using latin modern bold sans serif for titles and that font does not have Cyrillic. The log warns Missing character: There is no П in font [lmsans10-bold]:+tlig;! You could select a different font using the classes heading setup features or generally avoid the problem with the...

11:00 PM
Citing the latest TUG newletter by Boris Veytsman:
*As always, many packages have been released or updated on CTAN. Let me
mention just one: everybody's favorite tikzducks
(https://ctan.org/pkg/tikzducks )now has a duck with football, crown,
beret, baguette, hockey, pizza, cake, lightsaber, graduate hat,
superhero cape and many more.*
@samcarter ;-)
@ChristianHupfer Wow! Having "everybody's favorite" package feels very nice :)
@CarLaTeX See message from @ChristianHupfer above. Your football ducks got mentioned in the TUG newsletter!
@samcarter Requests for more variants of ducks will flood in and you will have to pay a TikZ programmer to fulfill them... You will need FaceBook etc. accounts related to tikzducks and soon Hollywood will address you for negotiations about a contract and permissions to make Tikzducks -- The Movie ;-)
11:23 PM
@ChristianHupfer :) Even more? My list is already getting longer and longer every day. I cannot employ a TikZ programmer, as everyone who speaks TikZ (in contrast to myself) will run away screaming when he/she/it sees the .sty file. And if one can even make a file with emoji a tikzducks movie should be a guarantee for a box-office hit! (Note to self: need to draw a dinner jacket duck for the Oscar)

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