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12:16 AM
@Ben Putting the fantasy into nerd fantasy/role playing games. (the picture) Personally prefer the "hulk want shotgun" picture. Made me giggle. :)
 
hey there @KorvinStarmast
 
Hi Shal
@BESW I don't think she's ever read the Thieve's World books. That is the vulgar unicorn, and yes he's glad to see her. :)
 
Give me a bog unicorn any day.
 
how're things going?
 
Ben
@BESW Aww.. He's a cutie
 
12:22 AM
Shal, I am apparently toxic to the site so I must minimize my presence. Or so I've been told. So this is a hit and run. In about 20 mins, my brother has me on roll20, so maybe tonight is Game On! Life Cleric, worships the god of beer. :)
 
have fun!
 
@Shalvenay Wife is out of town for most of weekend, so I get to maybe get my Roll20 DM stuff set up, and try to fit your unusual scenario into a level 3 type challenge.
I am definitely going with blond hair on the spider legs of the warlock as a "tell" since the three clue rule seems to apply here.
I'll be starting the group in a city called "New Jahz" and their hook is "find out what happened to our tax collector." Sound good?
 
Ben
@KorvinStarmast Eh??
 
@Ben Eh? is a response to what, exactly? You're the one posting pictures. ;)
 
Ben
> I am apparently toxic to the site
What does that mean?
 
12:40 AM
@KorvinStarmast sure :D
 
May I inquire a 5e dnd question?
 
Ben
@Clarus_Nox I see no reason why not
 
what are ways a sorcerer can gain a familiar?
 
Ben
Apparently ther eare many people that have resources primed and ready to respond
 
been thinking about possibly a non magically bound contract
 
Ben
12:48 AM
@Clarus_Nox As in RAW/RAI?
 
mostly yes
but then saw this
 
Ben
Otherwise I'd say talk to your GM
 
16
Q: How does Find Familiar work with a Ring of Spell Storing?

Pilchard123Say a Wizard casts Find Familiar for himself, and then casts it again into a Ring of Spell Storing. The Ring is then given to another person, let's say a Rogue, who uses the Ring to cast Find Familiar. The description of Find Familiar says If you cast this spell while you already have a fam...

we are currently in a town of 'harpell' descendants so finding a wizard to cast it into it shouldn't be too hard
but before i saw this I was thinking of approaching a creature that caught my interests and trying to enter a verbal contract or something. but id on't think that'd be the same as a familiar and would be an npc under dm control right?
 
Ben
@Clarus_Nox Well for the most part the response appears to be that any familiar that qualifies for "NPC" would be controlled by the DM.
Just figuring out what that qualification is though is where I'm lacking
 
@Ben in re What does that mean? Beyond the small point that I intended that for Shal, -- I should have should have specified better -- sometimes folks need to figure things out. This is one such time.
 
Ben
12:59 AM
@KorvinStarmast Ah I see. Just in a general sense that seemed very heavy
 
Yeah, heavy is a fair way to put that. +1 for Ben.
@Clarus_Nox That is a DM thing which can lead to the Familiar being a pseudo dragon or an imp, per the monster manual It's a different way to do a familiar.. There are some Q & A on that feature. It's not the same as the spell.
 
0
Q: What do I need to do to not get upvoted, completely inappropriate Fate Core answers on my FATE 2.0 questions?

the dark wandererWhenever I ask a FATE question, with the SOLE exception of the edition differences question, I always get a terrible Fate Core answer that seems to completely fail to understand that I'm not asking about Fate Core. When I point this out, generally people go "Oh, well, it'll probably work anyways...

 
MM page 254 for pseudo dragon.
Variant IMP is on page 69 MM.
 
Ben
1:43 AM
Morning @Miniman
 
hey there @daze413
 
@Shalvenay hey hey hey!
 
Ben
So, was gonna say hey @Ash, but just as I put my coffee down to do so, it spilled all over me
 
user15026
@Ben oh no!
 
@Shalvenay how's life lately?
 
1:55 AM
I'll hazard a guess and say not as damp as Ben's.
 
@Ben Casting Purify Food and Drink, here, would clean it off you, right? :) (I'm assuming you're not burning to death because you just typed stuff in)
 
@daze413 OK here
 
Ben
@Ash First time that's ever happened. Thankfully it was both a flat white (so not as hot) and I'm also wearing a loose shirt. So no harm done. Except that I have less coffee now
 
hey there btw @Ash
 
Less coffee is harm enough.
 
Ben
1:57 AM
@BESW badum-tss
@BESW This is also true
 
user15026
@Ben Well that's good at least :)
 
Ben
@Ash So I haven't seen you around here a lot, you had any games going lately?
 
user15026
Not really, no - summer has me busy :P
 
Ben
Aug 24 '15 at 23:26, by Ben
Agh! Life! The bane of fun!
 
user15026
Indeed :P
 
Ben
2:00 AM
Thought that sentiment might be relevant haha
But I can say I know that feeling. I went from 4 games a week to one... and even that's on shaky ground atm too :(
But now I've got a game going with @Daze and @miniman, so it's looking up again!
 
Excited to have you guys, I have actual maps for next week this time!
when I say maps, I mean... encounter locations, not actual plane map... Though I should do that sometime too, I guess
 
Maaaaaaps.
 
Ben
@daze413 Yeeeeeey!
I believe @BESW had some useful links on how to draw maps haha
 
Fantastic Maps has fantastic guides and tutorials for practical techniques.
It's not quite so good at helping you figure out how your map's design should reflect its purpose.
 
Ben
Also macaroni
 
2:06 AM
Ah, no, I use excel.. Though I do draw some maps for my RL games
 
Jun 1 at 13:45, by BESW
@DrRDizzle Or do what I do, and grab an existing map.
 
Ben
From creativity to copout
All legitimate strategies
 
Jun 1 at 14:18, by BESW
A lot of my recent campaigns have been able to use modified Google Maps.
(Click through to the conversation the above comments are from, to see examples of various kinds of maps I've made.)
 
Ben
2:21 AM
I'd have to say that if nothing else, Maps are why people play RPGs
 
@Ben That seems pretty easily disproven, given the number of RPGs that don't involve maps in any way.
 
Backers of Misspent Youth can get text-complete PDFs of the game now (it's not the final pretty version, but all the words are there).
 
Ben
@Miniman I should put a ":P" at the end of that then
 
I'll have to check it after work, imgur is blocked
Also, yeah, I've done pretty well with just a vague shape of the continents, and coming up with details on the fly, so no maps are really required
 
Ben
2:46 AM
So, after cleaning the coffee off with a dishcloth, I now smell like old cereal :(
 
@BanjoFox Anyone else remember the time someone's phone wasn't working and they had to Morse that bit of information into the chat-stream? That was kinds fun. (cc: @BESW @Miniman @Shalvenay @Magician @Adeptus @JoelHarmon)
 
Ben
I was wondering why there was morse code in the chat...
 
@nitsua60 -. ---
 
@nitsua60 That was pretty hilarious.
 
@Miniman having a hard time coming up with the right chat-search to find it, though =\
 
2:49 AM
Me too - it was doppel, right?
 
Wazzit? I'd have guessed Adeptus, but I have no idea why.
@SevenSidedDie I use minis in DW. No grid rules or movement speeds, but I just like the tactile part of the game I wasn't willing to give it up. (cc: @JoshuaAslanSmith)
 
@nitsua60 as much as I like the tactile aspect, I find them most valuable as a communication medium
 
No, sir!
 
That's right!
 
2:56 AM
I didn't see you playing with your minis again, sir!
(besides, everyone knows the best minis are legos)
 
Ben
@JoelHarmon Seconded
 
@JoelHarmon I've got a paladin-player using a Ninjago minifig--with a ridiculous 4-inch sword in one hand. It's better than anything Ral Partha could come up with.
 
they are reequipable, dismemberable, and come with their own reconfigurable set pieces. What's not to love?
 
Another uses 80s spaceman for any character they play, no matter the game, edition, setting, or character.
 
that's an entirely reasonable approach
 
3:00 AM
(complete with broken-chinstrap-helmet)
 
Ben
@nitsua60 You know, I'm doing this now. This is happening
 
@godskook Are you asking about the odds of rolling it? It's trivial with point-buy, it's impossible using the standard array.... (Nmv: I see that later others have addressed it.)
@Ben He tried to lay it down and use it to walk across a 10' pit trap. (Arguing from map-scale.) Then failed the DEX check to walk along the flat of his blade.
 
Ben
@nitsua60 [must... resist... urge... to make... terrible pun]
 
@Ben no cutting remarks today?
@nitsua60 my favorite character had a paper pair of wings taped to his back, to represent the in-game Leonardo DiVinci wings he wore. He insisted they were real dragon wings, and sometimes attempted to fly with them.
 
Ben
@JoelHarmon Well that... and I can't really form it properly
The old cereal smell is really messing with my thought process
 
 
3 hours later…
Ben
6:33 AM
So. Home now, and free of the stench
Also, in other news, a friend has approached me about learning the rules for d&d, as they had recently been invited to a game.
I asked if there was room for another, as my housemate had only ever experienced no more than a few sessions of multiple games (and now feels she is somehow cursed), but they did extend the invitation.
So now they might actually be able to join a proper game of D&D! Am happy :)
The only question is the version. Because on a scale of 5e to pathfinder, I do seriously hope it's a little more toward the 5e end, especially for two beginners in a group of 6
 
@Ben That's quite an odd scale you've got there :P What do you see between those two?
 
Ben
Primarily? Character creation
After that, understanding the rules
 
No, I mean, at one end of the scale you have 5e, at the other end, pathfinder. What's in the middle?
 
Ben
Not saying that they're difficult to understand, just there's a lot to it
5, 4, 3.5, pathfinder
 
Interesting. I would've thought it was more like 5, pathfinder, 3.5, with 4 sort of off to the side somewhere.
 
Ben
6:47 AM
Haha. In truth my experience of 4 is non existent, and pathfinder is just of what others have told me, with a little bit of a nosey myself, so yeah
I just did the countdown really haha
 
 
2 hours later…
nwp
8:27 AM
I can't find a LE death god in the 5e PHB that I like.
The problem is that it wants to destroy undead whereas regular death gods tend to support necromancy and the like.
 
I always liked the Raven Queen.
 
@nwp The Raven Queen is against Necromancy if I remember correctly
 
15
A: If the Raven Queen claimed Nerull's portfolio, why doesn't she preside over souls in an/the afterlife?

BESWNerull was a jerk who wanted to be king of the gods. The other deities were happy when the Raven Queen croaked him—happy enough to raise her to godhood in his place—but didn't want a repeat performance. So they tweaked her portfolio a little, and she later added a couple extra domains of her own....

 
And there's an Unearthed Arcana for Warlocks where you can choose the Raven Queen as your patron
 
nwp
I think the Raven Queen fits well enough, I can just drop the LE thing without problems.
Thanks all.
Hmm wait no, the point was that power is gained from creatures dying and undead ruining the plan by not dying. The Raven Queen seems to not gain anything from peoples' death.
 
8:37 AM
@nwp She's responsible for Death. That's the base part of her Portfolio as a goddess.
 
Only the Evil gods require some obvious bankable benefit for fulfilling their role in the world.
The other gods do their thing 'cause it's their thing, 'cause it needs doing, 'cause they love it or if they don't do it nobody will.
The Raven Queen in particular was saddled with ensuring souls meet their designated afterlives because she made that hole in the pantheon (even though the guy who should've been doing it wasn't, there'd at least been somebody at whom the buck theoretically stopped).
 
@BESW BTW: What's the best way to learn about the lore of the Raven Queen for a newcomer to 5e? You mentioned in the linked Q&A Manual of the Planes and the referred Q&A Divine Power from 4e.
 
I know nothing about 5e lore.
 
Okay, then I may need to check out the 4e stuff.
 
But I'm reasonably sure based on stuff I've heard in chat that 5e is designed to be deliberately flexible about its lore, and adapt to the needs of a group.
4e was kinda like that too, but to an even more extreme degree: its lore was consistent in the broad strokes but deliberately contradictory in the details in order to wedge open room for each group's needs and pre-empt arguments about "canon."
(Ironic, given that 4e's mechanics were the most rigidly coherent of all the editions.)
 
8:46 AM
I am mostly looking for inspiration as what I read about the Raven Queen sounded very interesting.
 
There's also Wee Jas, who doesn't exist in 4e lore but the Raven Queen is obviously riffing on some of her qualities.
 
nwp
Maybe I should just directly add the Elder God to the world. That is the original inspiration anyways.
 
D&D has a long, proud tradition of grafting Mythos entities onto itself.
 
nwp
But spinning it into the Raven Queen trying to fulfill her duties by helping the dead move on works too, but it doesn't have the selfishness and evil that was supposed to be a point of contention.
 
With Wee Jas you can pretty much make up anything. Her metahistory as a D&D deity is a mess.
 
nwp
8:49 AM
I liked the idea of having the evil death god support the good paladin in destroying the undead.
 
Her portfolios generally include Death, Magic, Vanity/Love, and Law.
 
@BESW I liked that very much as a campaign setting sharing technique. A lot of important details were hedged as "here's what people think happened, based on what they could figure out, or what they were told, or based on what they want to believe".
Like the idea that Dragonborn are all directly descended from a dragon god could just be a self-serving myth.
 
And Nerath had fallen anywhere from a generation ago to five centuries ago.
(Which, to my mind, also hinted at an incremental collapse of the empire. The date of its fall depended on where you asked.)
 
I remember something like possibly also a thousand years ago being mentioned.
 
Usually references to an empire that collapsed a thousand or more years ago were to Arkhosia or Bael Turath, but I'm sure Nerath got that treatment too at least once.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:49 AM
@nwp hehe, he is a decent inspiration as a character for this kind of thing
 
11:32 AM
@BESW In the 5e PHB index, under Deities, it lists sections for Celtic, Dragonlance, Eberron, Egyptian, Forgotten Realms, Greek, Greyhawk, nonhuman, and Norse. I think it's safe to say 5e is deliberately noncommittal in the core rules.
 
12:27 PM
it is getting considerably more difficult to maintain my zen-like state of mind. sips covfefe
 
1:03 PM
such a mediatic
 
:D ... I think?
 
Interesting....
@BanjoFox the solution is to drink more covfefe
 
@godskook -- hahah... wanna trade PGP keys? :D
 
What's pgp?
 
x.X
 
1:16 PM
Its not php, because php doens't have "keys" like that.
 
Morning friends!
 
Good Morning
 
nwp
I wish they would stop with the Web of Trust thing. Trust is not transitive.
 
:O
 
1:45 PM
@nwp what about anubis?
 
As far as I can tell, Web of Trust doesn't rely on Trust being *strictly* transitive, just weakly transitive, like the term "nearby" is weakly transitive.

(When I lived in Chicago, I was "nearby" some people, like my neighbors. My neighbors were also nearby people, that I was transitively nearby. But if we extend that far enough, we eventually hit people who, despite there being a chain-of-bacon from me to them, I was not transitively nearby myself.)
 
nwp
@godskook Maybe I should read more about that. Is there a hop-distance defined? If yes by whom?
 
From the wiki:

"It is desirable to have as short as possible an MSD to your key, as that means that on average, people can reach your key quickly through signatures, and thus your key is relatively more trusted than a key with a higher MSD.

NOTE: This does not mean that you should universally trust keys with a low MSD. This is merely a relative measurement for statistical purposes."
In cryptography, a web of trust is a concept used in PGP, GnuPG, and other OpenPGP-compatible systems to establish the authenticity of the binding between a public key and its owner. Its decentralized trust model is an alternative to the centralized trust model of a public key infrastructure (PKI), which relies exclusively on a certificate authority (or a hierarchy of such). As with computer networks, there are many independent webs of trust, and any user (through their identity certificate) can be a part of, and a link between, multiple webs. The web of trust concept was first put forth by PGP...
 
nwp
@NautArch According to the PHB he is LN. Also I feel using Egyptian gods is somehow more cheesy than less commonly known ones.
Since I don't plan to add much lore or interactions anyways maybe some random name and saying it is the LE death god serves just fine. There is not really a reason to pick one from the book.
 
@nwp -- Do they have Santa Muerte?
 
1:55 PM
@nwp why is an LE vs. LN distinction important?
 
nwp
@BanjoFox No, not even in other editions it seems.
@godskook Because it is a central decision making point for the LG paladin to accept help from the LE god or to refuse. Which is also the reason the Raven Queen doesn't fit well.
 
@nwp Jergal? Granted I don't know much about lore, I gather that Jergal at one point was noted as LE, and he doesn't have any qualms about undeath and the use of it to bring more death.
 
@nwp ??? What edition? Because in 3.5 that's not an interesting question, that's a simple "no, I've read my class features, tyvm"
 
6 hours ago, by nwp
I can't find a LE death god in the 5e PHB that I like.
The impetus of this discussion
 
nwp
@godskook 5e. As far as I know there is no "you get screwed if you side with evil" in the rules. Also the death god helps in destroying undead which is what a paladin also wants.
 
2:03 PM
hahah "Rallaster, lesser god of razors, mutilation, murder, insanity and torture. (Book of Vile Darkness)"
 
@nwp How about a time-warped Jergal? Was, at a point, an LE Necromancy god
 
what does "LE" mean in this context? :)
 
Lawful Evil
 
ah
 
nwp
Maybe as a summary: The Evil Death God gains power through creatures' death. But it thinks in time frames of millennia: killing them is pointless, they will be dead in a millennium or so anyways. Instead it will protect short-lived creatures such as goblins and humans because every creature born is a creature that will die eventually. Problem: If the material realm is inhabited by only undead the plan fails, because they don't die. Hence the hate for undead and other eternally living beings.
 
2:14 PM
@nwp what happens if your player accepts this god's help?
What's the point of it, in your mind?
 
nwp
@godskook They get a mace of disruption or something like that and a quest to clear out a tomb of undead.
@godskook Interesting tension and decision making for the paladin as well as a plot hook to get them into the tomb.
 
@nwp Where is the tension coming from? Just from the fact that a good paladin is working with an evil god?
 
I personally wouldn't find that decision-point interesting or tense, though, if I was a Paladin player.
At least not from details I've read so far.
 
nwp
Maybe I'm just overestimating that point. It sounded interesting in my head. The point of interest is "Don't side with evil" vs "I accept the help of evil to do good".
 
This god does not strike me as Evil TBH
 
nwp
2:28 PM
It wants to maximize death to gain power. Sounds evil enough to me.
 
maximising death by bringing about birth
 
nwp
There is also some background of a priest of that god healing a little girl and letting an old woman die, which hopefully makes sense knowing the god's agenda.
 
@nwp Yes, but the tension in that scenario is (often) that if the player chooses to side with evil, something changes them for the worse, or they risk being changed for the worse. In the short synopsis we have right now, if the player accepts, they get a cool magic item and a quest. Their decision one way or another needs some consequence.
@Szega I'm sure there's an example somewhere of a real world deity that presides over both death and fertility. But I know not what it is.
 
there is a similar god in a hungarian RPG, who is a god of death (and jokes) and explicitly forbids healing for his priests. even he is not considered evil
the drawback could be that they cannot give or accept magical healing (maybe balance it somehow?)
 
nwp
Maybe I need to push the evil with promoting killing of creatures that are past their reproductive time so the young-lings have more. Or I should just accept that the god is not that evil after all and let go of the "will you accept help from an evil god?" part.
 
2:36 PM
like make it not a mace of disruption, but that any weapon he uses gains that property
 
Baron Samedi ( or any of the Ghedes) sound like the god of death and jokes XD
 
@Szega That would definitely make it more like direct help from the deity.
 
@T.J.L. it should be, as it would replace the lay on hands feature (and cure wounds)
 
nwp
Another plan is that there is a goblin camp nearby. The villagers want to get rid of them because they keep raiding their supplies. The death god wants to keep them around because goblins are pretty good for the stated purpose. I don't think taking power away from the PC for killing the goblins anyways would be fun.
 
@nwp Your situation is HEAVILY out of balance, as described to me, and if you tried balancing it by adding more to either side, it'd just make it more volatile, like adding poundage to a see-saw.
One option is the clear philisophical choice, and the other option is the clear pragmatic choice.
There's very little ambiguity to play around with.
And players are often fairly pre-decided on how pragmatic vs. philisophical they are.
Any given player will probably blow through this choice like a 747 through a china shop.
 
nwp
2:44 PM
@godskook What would you suggest to make it better?
 
Don't prepare your campaign like you're writing a story.
That's a bit abstract....
 
nwp
@Szega I don't want to turn the paladin evil. It is a temporary alliance because the goals happen to align for this situation.
 
@nwp I am still of the opinion that this would not be Evil.
 
nwp
@Szega The paladin accepting the help or the god maximizing death?
 
@nwp Not giving magical healing is not Evil. Which is what this god does as far as I can see. He is not killing anyone directly, nor asks you to.
he is more Lawful Neutral
 
2:49 PM
@nwp so, you're offering a choice of clear pragmatism vs. clear philosophy. That's interesting to write for a book, I think, but its not interesting to present to a player. Instead, I'd offer situations with less-clear pragmatic/philosophical choices.
 
On another related note: you should send them in the undead-cave first, and make the offer when they are knee deep in skeletons
 
@nwp also, isn't this like....a level 2 game?
Why is there a LE god walking around?
 
@godskook I thought he spoke to the PC in a dream or vision
 
@godskook Gods don't have to be walking around in the world itself to be involved in a paladin's life.
 
nwp
@godskook He isn't walking around, he got 1 temple with 1 priest and the power to conjure a mace of disruption and send some visions of the tomb of undead.
 
2:53 PM
@Szega So? You still have a god personally involving himself in the random affairs of random people who aren't even in accord with his general causes. That's weird imho.
@nwp Oh, ok. hmmm.....
 
@godskook well, he is recruiting the paladin. if he does not have an extensive church to do it for him, this might be necessary
 
nwp
Also I think I should make the cleric serving the temple a coward who is too scared to go into the tomb and do it himself. But brave enough to pass on a vision and the mace.
Which has the side effect that the death god cannot be of the "no weakness allowed" type.
 
@nwp Doesn't have to be a coward. Can just be of the opinion that his duty is to the temple itself, and not the tomb.
 
@nwp or maybe he got old and this is his last mission from his god
to "pass the torch"
also make him really happy that he will die :)
 
nwp
I feel like there is some room with Nerull dead and the Raven Queen being denied power over the dead. Maybe it doesn't need to be a god, maybe it is just some demon who is collecting souls undisturbed until the stupid zombies threaten to break his precious soul farm.
 
nwp
3:46 PM
@nwp Doesn't make sense though, a demon would just kill everyone and move on. And not be discouraged by some undead.
 
3:59 PM
What caused the undead to be there? What is the force that created the undead and is thus in conflict with whatever is reaching out to the paladin?
 
 
1 hour later…
4:59 PM
@Adam The current healthcare debate is causing rioting in the Positive Energy Plane and resulting in cure spells running amok.
 
nwp
@Adam I haven't thought about the cause. The villagers just know it happens and take precautions. One long dead lord was entombed with an amulet that kept him from rising which someone tried to steal. He didn't get far. I plan on making the amulet a puzzle piece, restoring the original stay-dead-magic to get rid of the risen lord. The details are fuzzy, I haven't planned much more in that direction.
Also nothing is reaching out to the paladin. It's just that there are undead and killing them is a paladin's thing.
 
@nwp 3.5e?
 
nwp
@Yuuki 5e
 
Because in 5e, undead killing isn't necessarily a paladin's thing. I mean, radiant damage on Divine Smite means they're good at it.
But it's not like 3.5e where they're under some kind of divine obligation to do so.
5e paladins aren't even necessarily tied to a deity.
They can easily do all of their paladin things without worshipping any deity.
 
nwp
> their martial skills are secondary to the magical power they wield: power to heal the sick and injured, to smite the wicked and the undead, and to protect the innocent and those who join them in the fight for justice.
That's where I got the undead thing from. But I agree, they are bound by their oath, not a deity.
 
5:14 PM
It's funny that everyone is like "radiant damage versus undead makes paladin's super good against undead in 5e" As far as I'm aware, shadows and zombies are the only two kinds of undead that have any special interaction with radiant damage. And zombies aren't even vulnerable to it, it just keeps them from reviving.
 
@Adam Those seem like advantages to me.
I mean, I could see this being a moral dilemma for an Oath of Vengeance paladin, maybe.
 
nwp
I could change it to the shortsword of disruption and give it to the rogue instead, doesn't change much.
 
Or maybe Oath of the Archfey.
But siding with an evil god is no issue for an Oath of the Crown paladin.
 
@Yuuki They are, but when fighting skeletons, or liches, or wights, or ghouls, or ghasts, or ghosts, or pretty much any other kind of undead, radiant damage isn't anything special.
 
nwp
Actually the oath comes at lvl3 and they will might not be lvl3 by then.
 
5:17 PM
@Adam Yes but I was referring to undead in general terms. Taking them as an aggregate, do you want to deal radiant damage or slashing damage to an undead?
Just any member of the undead. You choose the damage type and a random undead pops out.
 
Considering that all it takes is a magic weapon to overcome any resistances that the greater undead have, It doesn't really matter what the damage type is
 
@Adam smite deals +1d8 versus any fiend or undead
 
@Szega To be fair, Divine Smite isn't the spar of this.
 
@Szega See, that I legit forgot about :p Still, that's a function of smite doing extra damage. It's not radiant damage being super good against undead.
 
But rather "radiant damage versus undead makes paladins super good against undead in 5e."
I'd still say that if radiant damage has certain effects on some undead that other damage types do not, then by that notion radiant damage is better against undead than other damage types.
 
5:21 PM
Except for shadows and zombies, radiant damage is as good as pretty much every other magical damage type except poison and necrotic.
 
@Yuuki bludgeoning is good versus skeletons...
 
gigglesnort dulce et decorum est programming mori
 
I have a +2 axe with bane against arthropods. I also have a +2 axe with no other enchantments. Even if the enchantment is specific to arthropods, the +2 bane axe is objectively better than the other +2 axe.
Except for spiders, the +2 non-bane axe is just as good as the +2 bane axe. So you'd be fine if I threw away the bane axe and you can take the non-bane axe?
 
@Yuuki insofar as i'd be okay with you exchanging 30 cents over a quarter. One can be better, but having radiant damage isn't this great thing that makes paladins a champion against undead. Radiant damage has a small boon against a very specific few enemies, the same way that almost every other damage type does.
 
That's not a comparable situation at all. Quarters are objectively better than other coins. They are accepted in far more places than dimes, nickels, and definitely pennies.
 
5:29 PM
@Yuuki fire damage is good vs mummies, ergo sorcerers are good vs undead
 
What if 10 of those 30 cents are pennies? That's basically trading 20 cents for a quarter.
That's an inequitable deal.
Nobody uses pennies anymore. We should stop using pennies, btw.
Anybody that gives you a penny is a horrible person.
 
@Yuuki Earth must be a terrible person then, since it tries to give them to me all the time.
 
@Delioth Sounds about right.
 
@Adam How much of a problem is reviving?
 
@godskook for a lvl1-2 PC vs zombies, quite significant
 
5:42 PM
@Szega But are those levels relevant for @Adam's analysis? The +2 weaposn make me think he's considering a later-stage of the game.
 
@godskook Annoying more than anything, but not really a problem past level 2. It only takes dealing 6 damage and reducing a zombie to 0 hp to give it less than a 50/50 shot at succeeding the save. And if it drops to 0 hp from taking 19 damage or more, it cannot make the save at all.
 
@godskook Adam's/Yuuki's analyses are more general about paladins being great against undead (no opinion from me). More generally, there's an open discussion for nwp about the undead in their (upcoming/planning?) campaign.
There are kinda two discussions that are a bit parallel (though one has overtaken the other)
 
@Adam How hard is 19 damage?
 
@godskook In a single blow? Difficult at L1, easy at L5+.
 
In 3.5, I know that's trivially low for level 6 characters, but no baseline for the average non-Rogue in 5e(rogues at least have SA giving an explicit scaling of damage, but not sure how applicable that is).
 
6:27 PM
It's too quiet
 
nwp
@Adam Thanks for the question. If you hadn't asked that my players might have and I would have been unprepared. I think I'll hide a statue of Vecna somewhere with some clues in order to stop the undead in this area permanently.
@B.S.Morganstein You could report on your DM activities.
 
@nwp In the game I DM'd, or with my problem DM from past questions
 
nwp
@B.S.Morganstein The first.
 
@B.S.Morganstein ?Por qué no los dos?
 
@nwp It went well. Wrote up a short campaign about an Orc chief who hired the PCs to procure for him an ancient evil artifact (unknown to the PCs at the time). As the session progressed they found triggers of their memories, slowly remembered what they had done, where to find the BBEG, etc
Ultimately they ended up fighting some bandits and some zombies (great fun for the paladin at the table), culminating in a moonlight showdown against the Orc chief using the artifact
 
6:33 PM
@B.S.Morganstein As in they did this then forgot somehow prior to the campaign's start?
 
They had fun playing through it and re-learning what had happened, and I had fun creating the journey for them as they went. A couple hiccups here and there (to be expected for a new session), but all in all a good time for everyone involved
@godskook Exactly. So their story began with their minds being wiped, and I had them run into NPCs who were in on their pre-campaign mission
I did need to create some rails for them to start on, but after that the campaign was entirely their own
Such is life playing with first-timers
 
@B.S.Morganstein What would've happened if they allied with the Orc Chief?
 
Totally allowed, and written into the story. It would have come down to what would happen if they tried to interact with the artifact (an ebony skull, which when activated, gained deep fires in its empty eye sockets)
If they tried to use it, I set some sort of DC - pass and they could access some decent powers (scrying, memory erasing, etc). If they failed they would have taken some necrotic damage
And they had the option to rally the Chief's forces to invade the nearby town where most of the NPC interactions had taken place
 
Interesting. So the only "real" rail to this story was that the PCs should probably be interested in the fact that that Orc Chief has the Artifact, in some vague sense, one way or another?
 
nwp
I'm doing the mind wipe thing too. I thought it would really help in having an excuse to just get started with pre-generated characters and discover backgrounds and origins later.
It still took a really long time to get started though.
 
6:38 PM
@godskook Exactly. So there was some personal incentive to try and figure out what happened, and a clear goal for the first time players, but by no means were they restricted to "go find the bad guy and kill him"
@nwp Yeah I think the hardest part for me was trying to explain to the characters that their memories had been wiped without actually telling them
So I had them roll wisdom checks whenever their memories were triggered to see if they could overcome the effects of the ancient artifact wiping their memories. Eventually one PC passed the check and filled the other PC in
 
@B.S.Morganstein that's a great short story!
Sleight of hand to steal it...
D20
 
Crap
 
@NautArch thanks, I enjoyed writing something myself over using a pre-made adventure. And it still allowed me to use pre made characters while allowing the PCs some freedom to adventure and do whatever they felt like doing
 
nwp
@B.S.Morganstein "You don't remember how you got here" was enough for my players because they really didn't because it was the first session.
 
6:40 PM
lol @NautArch By all means use it, I can share the encounters I made as well
 
Smack NautArch on the back of the head......(touch attack)

1d20+15
1d20+15
1d20
 
Ha!
 
@nwp yeah that would do the trick. I had them have a short interaction with the orc chief where he used the artifact on them, and then whenever they tried to get more information on what they had been doing before I said that their memory was foggy, and while they remember each other they don't remember what they had been doing for the past few days, nor where they have been
 
Does 34 hit your touch AC, @NautArch?
 
6:42 PM
and @nwp while I had concerns of metagaming the PCs were actually quite good at separating their knowledge from their characters' knowledge
 
nwp
I was really happy when the rogue put 5GP from a chest they found into her pocket without the other PCs noticing. Should have made a slight of hand check and maybe given out inspiration, but didn't do either -.-
 
yeah I let my players know that inspiration was a thing, but I have slight regrets since it felt at times like they were doing stuff to impress me and get inspiration, and for no other reason
 
@B.S.Morganstein There's nothing inherently wrong with rails. As Matt Colville said, and I agree: "Railroaded" is that unpleasant feeling the players get when they feel like "we don't have a choice!" On rails just means the players are following the content the DM has ready
 
@B.S.Morganstein There's nothing wrong with that. I hand out Inspiration like candy. Sometimes, I hand it it out as actual candy.
 
@T.J.L. So I might have to make sure I don't literally eat my inspiration?
 
6:49 PM
@Delioth If you eat it before you spend it, then it's still gone. :)
 
Alternatively, optimize the hell out of the character so I don't need it and then just eat it all.
 
1d3
?
dang :D
 
@nwp No problem. It's a good question to keep in mind when you are coming up with stories. It makes your world distinctly more realistic when things have a purpose, history, or motivation beyond "kill fodder for my friends on game night"
 
@BanjoFox For reference: "The roller supports: d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20. You can roll up to four sets of XdY using one of those dice, where X is up to 9. X defaults to 1, Y defaults to 6"
 
d
 
6:52 PM
 
Wow! I didn't know it could do that
 
@Delioth thanks. I am, somewhat, dissapointed at the regularity of those polyhedrons ;)
 
9d20
 
12
9
1
10
14
10
8
16
7
 
@Adam @T.J.L. Yeah, especially since it was the first session I tried to plan encounters that would make sense for the campaign I had created, but could also easily be moulded to fit other scenarios. For example, I had created a bandit ambush against the PCs who were trying to capture them for the orc chief. They were supposed to ambush them in town. Instead the PCs went wandering through the woods at night, found their camp, and decided to ambush them for funzies
 
6:54 PM
@BanjoFox Turns out that people don't like really random things as much as things that LOOK random.
4
 
I can't remember where but somebody here pointed me to a resource which said that the DM isn't designing campaigns, but they're really designing encounters, and I thought that was actually great advice
 
@godskook definitely. Disadvantage for being virtual?
 
@godskook -- That was meant to be a reference to their shapes having a number of sides easily divisible by 2. I will accept pseudo-random for most things. Infosec is an exception whereby I want true random.
1d4
 
@B.S.Morganstein That, and NPC factions and characters. A large portion of any campaign's "story" is really "how the important NPCs react to player actions".
 
6:57 PM
1d7
aww
sorry SSD
I tried
 
@NautArch Only non-natives get disadvantage on virtual attack rolls.
 
1di
 
Yeah, that's most of campaign design. Everything can pretty much be ad-libbed, but in most D&D-likes you need a bit of prep to make sure you don't just kill the PC's
 
End this discrimination against imaginary numbers.
 
(( Exception: Lots of system experience & intimate knowledge of what your PC's can do can get you good enough to ad-lib encounters too if you know where to look for beasties ))
 
6:58 PM
@Yuuki wouldn't that be 1d i
 
@Delioth yeah I'm definitely not at the point where ad-libbing would be a good idea
 
@BanjoFox Sure, about shapes. As for psuedo-random, its more accurate that, assuming you're normal in this regard, you WON'T accept true-random for most things outside Info-Sec.
 
@BanjoFox Look at you trying to isolate that poor imaginary number. Why are you treating it differently from an integer? You're just a representation of the prejudice inherent in the system.
 
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