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5:00 PM
yeah I agree with totallyhuman we should probably keep politics out of SE (except politics SE if that exists)
There is a Politics SE
They have a question in HNQ right now
hopefully it's not toxic
It hasn't been toxic in my experience
speaking of politics how do i dismiss the net neutrality banner on all the SE sites
i've been reading through the meta post so i don't need to see it on every site i visit
if you use an adblocker you can filter it out, otherwise i don't think you can dismiss it universally
5:09 PM
I've returned after venting my political frustration!
How long does it take for profile pictures to change in chat?
a mod can manually refresh it
otherwise it take hours sometimes
i think
Not if you change your parent profile
@cairdcoinheringaahing I like at A during the weekend, then I travel to stay at B and commute all week to work at C, wherefrom I travel via Jon Skeet's hometown D, back to A.
I need something to do, and working on my language(s) depresses me.
5:11 PM
And Jelly doesn't help much eaither
well i'm currently writing java for school so... can't get worse?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Learn APL ;-)
@totallyhuman that is pretty dumb
@totallyhuman Could be C
@totallyhuman Python for the win
5:12 PM
could be assembly
but y'know schools aren't that cruel
I think there's a course at my school that makes you use assembly, but it's not mandatory
@totallyhuman we challenged our CS teacher to program anything in Lenguage. He failed
It didn't help that we didn't tell him about sites that will compile brainfuck into Lenguage. He tried doing it himself, and gave up after 5 mins
@Downgoat no
ok thanks
5:17 PM
@DJMcMayhem $$12 \cdot 12 \cdot 12 \cdot 12 \cdot 12$$
did i do calculation wrong? :|
@DJMcMayhem MathJAX?
$12 × 12 × 12 × 12 × 12$
actual multiplication sign ftw
5:18 PM
> Whut ij this norsense
Freehand is hard
Imprisoned hand is even harder
@totallyhuman I appreciate jokes of that nature
mm but now i'm afraid another RO's gonna walk in and kick
> kcick
For one pun?
5:21 PM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ sometimes it gets wonky
not that i don't appreciate you guys cleaning up
oh shoot i'm supposed to be doing stuff
do you have to do citation in academic paper like I know answer is yes but what if there is nothing cite-able
@totallyhuman mm = milimeter?
apparently i have been starting a lot of my messages with a unit
it's kinda liek how people type "mhm"
O__O wtf how do people write 150 page thesis
lol my latex editor has an entire dedicated section to 'Greek Letters'
5:39 PM
@Downgoat I'm sure the Greeks are very happy to hear that
What would you think about a challenge for turning:
`['a', 'bc', 'd'], ['a comment', 'bc comment', 'd comment']`

Oh no I lost an entire bag of IKEA screws
a    # a comment
 bc  # bc comment
   d # d comment
D: D: D:
@Mendeleev its not like they really help
5:45 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Kek
Remind me to not sleep on any IKEA beds you put together
@Mendeleev wat?
If youhave no screws in it
what is kek?
I would fall
and you'd fall anyway if its from IKEA
5:46 PM
@DJMcMayhem tryna automate your explanations? ;)
@cairdcoinheringaahing it's an internet thing, it basically means lol. I think it's what you see when one of the sides in wow says "lol" and you're on the other side. it's basically become a slightly modified lol at this point
I wonder if @Downgoat has ever seen this guy
the kek is a lie though
yes he has
@cairdcoinheringaahing hey, my desk and bed and chair are from ikea
5:47 PM
@totallyhuman it's not like I haven't done it before
@Mendeleev ok...
I'm thinking about a harder one that incorporates wrapping too
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Socratic PhoenixStitch the Genome code-golf bioinformatics combinatorics Introduction As you probably know DNA (deoxyribonucleic acid) is made up of bases, often denoted as A T C and G. Although DNA is really made up of two helices, and thus two sequences of bases, fancy chemistry stuff means that we only nee...

@DJMcMayhem Nice.
I actually have vim bindings to make explanations easier to write
5:50 PM
that'd be tricky
I really need to stop clicking on every link that is posted
that would be a good idea
how long can chat messages be?
@cairdcoinheringaahing Multiline messages are basically unlimited
@Mendeleev you rickrolled me!
5:52 PM
@cairdcoinheringaahing Yes I did :P
@cairdcoinheringaahing 500 characters
But multiline can be longer
@cairdcoinheringaahing ok I know the lyrics...
1 message moved to Trash
1 message moved to Trash
Rick rolling is getting old
5:55 PM
@DJMcMayhem But does it really deserve a kick?
@Mendeleev apparantly so
@Mendeleev IMO, yes.
5:57 PM
ok then wow
@Mendeleev it didn't really affect me. In that 1 minute, I had left to get chips.
@cairdcoinheringaahing your pfp got updated btw
@DJMcMayhem thank you
@DJMcMayhem tbh would say dupe of 2 already done challenge I can link if U want
6:15 PM
i am currently writing a piece of code that is one of PPCG's challenges
i'm trying so hard not to golf it
this is a sign of danger...woaaah
@EriktheOutgolfer thought this was pyth code for a second :P
it looks like pyth but it's more pyke...
heh me too
but then i immediately noticed like a good internetian
@DJMcMayhem not bad for almost 3 years
6:29 PM
it's actually infinite loop in pyth...if you give three or more inputs and the first one is a string
6:42 PM
Hey anyone want to have a Brain-Flak duel?
@WheatWizard what do you mean?
@LeakyNun We choose a question, we each are given some time to make an answer, We post the hashes of our solutions, then our real solutions and the shorter answer wins.
@WheatWizard can I not choose a question?
I mean, just you choose
Yeah I think I know a good one.
Would you like to put some reputation on this?
6:46 PM
We agree that the loser will give the winner a bounty. Its entirely optional.
oh, alright
How does 200 rep sound?
Q: Find the nearest biquadratic number

MayubeA biquadratic number is a number that is the fourth power of another integer, for example: 3^4 = 3*3*3*3 = 81 Given an integer as input, output the closest biquadratic number. Here are the first 15 double-squares: 1, 16, 81, 256, 625, 1296, 2401, 4096, 6561, 10000, 14641, 20736, 28561, 38416, ...

Thats the question I had in mind btw
Haven't tried it yet, but it looks like it would lend well to Brain-flak's sensibilities
can I give up lol
Ok, sure. No problem
o0 you want... to do that in brainflak?
6:52 PM
We can do another challenge, if you would prefer. But I would rather do a challenge that has not already been answered in Brain-flak. And there are not a whole lot of doable questions unanswered in Brain-Flak
@totallyhuman biquadratic numbers are very easy to compute in Brain-Flak
let's see what you have in mind
@WheatWizard i didn't think anything's easy to compute in brainflak
({({})({}[()])}{})({({})({}[()])}{}) 36 bytes is pretty good, and thats not even golfed
isn't that just (x²)²?
@LeakyNun How's this?
Q: Generate a Kolakoski sequence

ardnewDefinition1 A Kolakoski sequence is a self-describing infinite sequence {kn} of alternating blocks of 1's and 2's, given by the following rules: k0 = 1 kn = the length of the (n+1)'th block The Task Given a positive integer n, generate the first n elements of the Kolakoski se...

7:00 PM
"count the points on an elliptic curve" - would this be an interesting challenge?
(there are advanced academic algo's for that, but straight brute-force would also work)
(and some languages may have built-ins)
@totallyhuman a couple things are
@WheatWizard sorry I think I'm not really in the mood of doing this now
Ok no problem
@WheatWizard This one would be doable (though not well-suited)
But it would have some fun stacky operations
The worst part is the blended IO formats
@DJMcMayhem BrainHack has mixed IO
7:07 PM
Oh nice
When I saw that challenge my first thought was how awful it would be to do in Brain-Flak
Blended input and output, or just output?
Just input
@WheatWizard When I first saw that, I thought it would be awesome in brain-flak, then I started doing it and realized it's pretty bad
Is brainhack on TIO? Will it be?
7:10 PM
Oh nice!
1: 2
2: 1
3: 0
4: 1
5: 2
can anybody think of a math formula to take a number from the left and turn it into the right?
@totallyhuman |x-3|
oh duh
@WheatWizard The absolute value snippet on the wiki is not stack clean.
@DJMcMayhem Oh good to know
What does it do?
7:18 PM
Positive leaves it on the stack, negative toggles it
That makes sense, unfortunately thats hard to fix
1: 2
2: 1
3: 0
4: 0
4: 1
5: 2
4 mins ago, by totallyhuman
can anybody think of a math formula to take a number from the left and turn it into the right?
:P sorry
@totallyhuman y=abs(x-3.5)-.5
Q: Golfing Python string literals

Pietu1998Background Python has many types of string literals. For example, the string this 'is' an exa\\m/ple can be represented as: 'this \'is\' an exa\\\\m/ple' "this 'is' an exa\\\\m/ple" r"this 'is' an exa\\m/ple" '''this 'is' an exa\\\\m/ple''' """this 'is' an exa\\\\m/ple""" r'''this 'is' an exa\\...

@totallyhuman huh?
you have two 4s
7:23 PM
@WheatWizard This works: Try it online! but it's horrifying
@DJMcMayhem There has to be a better way
@WheatWizard oh nice thanks
Yeah. I think it would be better to do the non-stack clean, then toggle it over
@EriktheOutgolfer you saw nothing
7:36 PM
(([(({}))]<>)){({}())<>}{}{}<>{}([][()]){{}({}<>)(<()>)}{}({}<>) works in certain circumstances
@WheatWizard Status-completed
@MartinEnder has now posted exactly 2000 Qs and As!
@DJMcMayhem Abs in 54
@WheatWizard Oh nice! That should save me 10 bytes or so
7:39 PM
Hi all, I'm trying to teach myself J for fun and I've been having a lot of difficulty comprehending everything that the online book is throwing at me. Does anyone have any recommendations for learning the language? Usually I just try writing programs in the language until I get a feel for it, but that hasn't been easy with J.
I recognize that this question probably would be more befitting for another SE site, but I know that there are some people here who either answer in J or have made languages somewhat inspired by it.
@DJMcMayhem If your using it for practical purposes here's a 50 byte -abs. Might save you bytes
Interesting. Why is negative abs shorter?
And since it's for this, I'd say, no. It's not for practical use. Brain-flak never is :P
Its a little hard to explain, but the algorithm I implement prefers to change the sign on positive numbers. The 54 byte one is the same algorithm I just pay 4 extra bytes to flip the sign at the end.
Anyway. I'm going to add the new one to the wiki now.
Holy shit, the new stack clean one is shorter than the old one.
28 answers from gold...
with V you'll hit that mark in no time
8:01 PM
Q: How to handle large, complex challenges and built-ins?

SEJPMI want to make a complicated code golf challenge (with a time limit ;). In this particular case I want people to golf the Elliptic-Curve Method to factorization. Now there are two issues with planning this challenge, on which I'd like to ask for "official" guidance: Implementing this algorithm...

Where can I find out more about the most popular types of code challenges?
@Zaid browse the tag stats? ;)
Funny you should say that... I was just doing that
Trouble is, I don't know if something like array-manipulation and code-golf can be categorized together
@Zaid there should be plenty challenges tagged both
So I'm looking for things like code-golf, king-of-the-hill, popularity-contest, quine, source-layout, polyglot...
Are there any "optimization" challenges?
8:12 PM
@Zaid note how some of these describe the class of the winning criterion and some others the actual challenge / restrictions
@Zaid optimization in what sense?
@SEJPM like linear programming problems, but multi-dimensional.
So the question describes the X's, the Y's and the relationships between them (Y = F(X))
@Zaid codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/tagged/optimization would be probably the related tag
@SEJPM cool. Yes, looks like what I had in mind
8:47 PM
is anyone here familar with tikz?
@Downgoat I know the basics
(otherwise tex.se probably has a related Q :p )
am I doing a stupid, do you know why this doesn't work?:
        \node {root}
            child { \node[label=function] { f } }
Hmmm, as a relatively new user (active this year only), what happened to Geobits?
I even did semicolon and all
@Mr.Xcoder last time he was here he said he had been really busy
same with Alex
@Downgoat you lack an opening parenthesis?
8:50 PM
I think they both got a life
@SEJPM I need parens?
@Downgoat well, the one you close with the semi-colon, you never actually open
even just this:
        \node {root}
            child { \node[label=function] { f } };
doesn't work though
Ok, bye then!
@Downgoat did you try removing the [] argument from your original (which seems to have been right, oups)
(and did you ensure you have all the required packages? ;)
8:55 PM
:D it worked just had to restart TeX editor
9:06 PM
Q: Very long chat suspension for harmless joke

MendeleevAs usual, I was going about my day, occasionally stopping by SE chat. I replied to this message by @cairdcoinheringaahing ("I really need to stop clicking on every link that is posted") with this other message ("@cairdcoinheringaahing Try this one") as a joke. The link was a rickroll. I was prom...

9:40 PM
uh wait is that a 1y suspension :o
yup o0
but they do have a bad history
o0 ok i hope this doesn't become another zyabin :o
what's zyabin?
Q: 7 day chat suspension

MendeleevWhy have I received a 7 day chat suspension? I do not recall doing anything harmful or bad for the chatroom, except maybe posting faces, but I don't see how that warrants a 7 day ban. EDIT I don't make the best decisions late at night.

a user that dennis suspended for 1 year
that guy really had something against mods
so then eventually they got a bunch of kick-mutes and got a 1-year suspension
and then they got pissed off and left SE
uh I can't start my /usr/bin/konsole anymore :o
oh wow
9:42 PM
I did sysctl konsole.hostname=HyperNeutrino-Dev and now it doesn't start anymore
Q: Factorize a Gaussian integer

anatolygA Gaussian integer is a complex number whose real and imaginary parts are integers. Gaussian integers, like ordinary integers, can be represented as a product of Gaussian primes, in a unique manner. The challenge here is to calculate the prime constituents of a given Gaussian integer. Input: a ...

*kernel not konsole
i can't start any applications anymore
I can still run terminal from a file explorer window
lol somebody voted to close mendeleev's meta question about being suspended as dupe of another one of their chat suspension questions
lol wut
10:02 PM
In other news, I've just edited a very old sandbox post, which I'm finally nearly ready to post to main.
suggestion: make it a warping grid so it's even more confusing :D no but toroidal is probably better :P
but nice challenge
I'm going for simple so people can focus on competing with each other rather than bizarre topology :P
Thanks! :)
yup :P
no make it constantly alternate between the 8 edge wrapping states as defined by Klein :P
I have a few last bugs to iron out then should be posting the controller next week so people can test it before I post to main
or make the edges randomly pair :P
@trichoplax oo yay I look forward to that :D
10:07 PM
It's about time - it's been sitting in the sandbox for over 2 years now...
oh wow
When I had the idea I didn't know JavaScript, and it kept getting prioritised behind other things
ah I see
why JS though?
is it just for the stack snippet?
So it's playable in the browser - even for non coders - yes for the stack snippet
ah okay
10:10 PM
It does mean all the answers have to be in JS but language specific KotHs seem to have worked in the past
because I just used cli I/O so I could interact with any command-line supporting language :P so that everyone could compete. but I see your reasoning for the stack snippet too
and yes quite KoTHs are language specific and most of them work fine (except one of mine... rip)
while language specific koth's are much easier to maintain
it makes the controller easier to maintain
I quite like the idea of making a series of language specific KotHs each in a different language
>< ninja'd
10:11 PM
it's much nicer when everybody can participate
@trichoplax that sounds like an interesting idea
Idea: Make a Jelly KoTH! :D
Or even better a BF KoTH
wait that's been done
Or maybe a language agnostic KotH but your code has to be absurdly short, so it'll be mainly for the golfing languages
a code golf koth?
oo I have an idea
team v team koth
where the objective is to crash the whole other team
10:13 PM
I hope you'll sandbox some of these ideas - I'd love to see more KotHs
mm i wanna participate in one but it seems there aren't any new ones
KoTHs are fun but sometimes a pain to maintain
I will sandbox that one for sure
Some impressively polar reactions to a bad pun I made: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14751482
That's another thing I like about Stack Snippets - I don't have to download all the answers and compile them - just open the challenge page and press run...
10:15 PM
yeah true
another idea I had today was a team v team KoTH where the controller gives the first bot a message and then the team has to pass the whole message around and give it back to the controller, and the other team wants to mess up or stop the message
something like that
@mınxomaτ That's a lot of discussion for such a short initial comment. Suggests a variation on code golf...
@HyperNeutrino I wanted a similar message interference effect with mine, by forcing all players to share the same memory (the colours of the arena squares)
Ah I see
the color idea is really interesting imo
you can try to store memory but I suspect this one person (me if I can FGITW it) is just going to make a bot that goes around randomly and randomizes the grid lol
It's a big grid though...
but hopefully will mess up people a bit :P
not that other actually serious submissions won't interfere with each other :P
I'm still trying to decide how many players to allow in the arena at once. I've currently said 16 but I'm pondering
10:23 PM
why do golflangs support comments
@totallyhuman example?
Because they need them more than any other language :P
lol true
no but it's a waste of a byte
but Jelly wastes like 10+ bytes as of right now
10:24 PM
Ah I see your point. I guess they'd be better with a multi-byte comment separator, like ####
As long as it's something never needed for code
Then you could still use a single # as code
well # is sum the stack in ,,, so doing it multiple consecutive times doesn't make sense...
That could work then
Do most golfing languages use newline as a specific command?
pyth does
I just realized a slight issue
with the crash koth
a bot could just do __import__('os').system('pkill python*') and it would crash everything
(not my computer)
but all of the bots would die
and I don't think that can be prevented without specifically saying "no using system commands"
You could say it has to survive at least one more move
10:27 PM
but there are no moves
Survive at least n seconds afterwards?
they are just all started sequentially and then a file's contents are changed to indicate that it may start and then they can try to crash each other.
@trichoplax good idea
and also not team v team
just free for all
There have been a few similar ideas, if you want examples. Like the codebots and corewars.
Q: The Nano Core War

PhiNotPiThis is an adaption of Core War, a programming KOTH dating back to the 20th century. To be more specific, it is using an incredibly simplified instruction set primarily based off of the original proposal. Background In Core War, there are two programs battling for control over the computer. Th...

added comments
If there are redundant multi-byte sequences that allow for adding comments, that suggests the language could also be modified to be even more succint...
10:33 PM
Q: Cap the highest values in a list so that the sum equals a given number

Christiaan WesterbeekA slightly more challenging one compared to my previous challenge. Given a list of positive integers (>0) and the positive integer m, output a list of positive integers that are capped values of the input values so that the sum of the capped values equals m. Cap the highest values first. And keep...

1 hour later…
11:48 PM
rip my all colour image generator looks bad now
wait it was because I mixed b and g up
it actually looks pretty bad if it isn't rgb in order
also, I did an experiment, where it only generates right walls if it has to, and has a higher chance of generating bottom walls
looks pretty weird
the lines look like they have a really crap posterising effect

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