English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

01:58

@Færd Maybe Yes Minister. But I don't really watch television. You?

user288256

10:07

On the internet sometimes I see people use the word "fam" but the context never fits the word in the "family" sense, they probably mean "friend" but dictionaries don't have that meaning.

user288256

Like "Have a good day, fam."

user288256

etc.

Just win baby

It's more like an Internet family.

user288256

@Tonepoet Ping!

user288256

Hope I didn't wake you up

user288256

10:10

@Justwinbaby oh okay.

Færd

10:51

@Cerberus BBC's Planet Earth. Haha! Did I cheat?

You can watch them on computer though, eh? (Just joking)

I'll give Yes Minister a try. I remember once you commended one of its scenes for its good English.

Andrew Leach

11:13

@NVZ Yes, I have a number of stock comments for use with the Chrome extension.

NVZ

@AndrewLeach Yeah. Can I have them?

I use the extension too.

I even made a meta post today inviting others to try it.

1

Q: Auto review comments can save you time

There is an extension available for Google Chrome called AutoReviewComments, which can save you time if you frequently use the review queues, or respond to posts in comments, and I've been using it for quite a while. Install it → Read instructions → Use it. Ask me questions, when you have them....

discussion

Andrew Leach

I think it's better to write your own. It's more individual. There have been misgivings expressed in the past about the stock "From review" comments.

NVZ

I will, of course, change the wordings as needed, when the situation arrives.

Andrew Leach

Of course, there's nothing stopping you ~~stealing~~ being inspired by other's stock comments.

Hmm. I can never remember stirkeout syntax.

NVZ

I have prepared a list already, a list I have been using for over a year now.

But yours appear more resourceful (and authoritative, because you are a moderator).

Hence, I ask.

Shafizadeh

11:48

What does "pov" mean in porn-ish things? in general, it means "point of view". But I hardly think that meaning be the one in the porn-ish things.

user288256

12:04

@Shafizadeh Erm, hate to explain this but it means the porn is being filmed in the first person perspective.

Just win baby

12:15

since it takes two to tango there are actually two points of view

user288256

12:29

And I used to always mix up "kink" and "fetish" until I Googled

user288256

Until I Googled the meaning I mean.

Just win baby

sex-talk has its own vocabulary

Shafizadeh

@Ghalib thx

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I usually use headphones when I'm at the computer these days, so even if I was asleep, there's no way a ping could have awoken me, because I don't wear headphones when I'm asleep.

user288256

@Tonepoet Okay, that's good to hear.

user288256

12:39

Same here, I'm wearing headphones as we speak but I have disabled the ping sound.

Tonepoet

So what did you want from me anyway?

user288256

Um, nothing, I got my answer but you can see the context above.

user288256

I was asking about "fam"

Tonepoet

I am not sure about it. It sounds like valley girl talk, or as it is now known valleyspeak/valspeak

user288256

@Tonepoet That word is quite common in informal conversations on the internet these days. I didn't use to see it a few years ago.

user288256

12:45

My perception might be wrong, it is only based on what I have noticed.

Just win baby

It is probably an extension of "bro".

Internet brother.

or even Union Brother

There's also that song "We are family, I got all my sisters with me."

Tonepoet

@Ghalib People stopped using valspeak shortly after the 1990s. It was considered a very ditsy way of speaking, used largely by the spoiled teenage daughters of rich families. I most commonly saw it on sitcoms, and especially the ones that were set in a high-school environment, like Saved by the Bell.

user288256

@Tonepoet Hm it doesn't sound like valleyspeak to me. Even hardcore people use it. Like the word "kiddo". Example "Give it a break, fam". It is informal talk.

user288256

Btw "kiddo" can be used in a non patronizing sense too right? It is just that I'm so much used to seeing it in a humourous way that I have almost forgotten its other meaning, that other polite meaning that we use when we talk to a younger person.

user288256

Or maybe it is always condescending? Not sure.

Tonepoet

12:56

I can not say for certain, since I am largely unfamiliar with this word/abbreviation.

user288256

@Tonepoet Yeah, I too have come across "valley speak" only on TV

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I know it's common, but I wouldn't use the word patronize to simply mean demean. If I used the word patronize in a demeaning way, it would be aiding/defending somebody in an overly defensive way. As an example "Don't patronize me!" would mean *don't try to help me or protect me", usually with the circumstantial implication that I can independently justify my own actions in an argument, or don't need to have my feelings spared.

user288256

@Tonepoet Erm what? Tone you are mixing up its definitions I guess. It has two meanings. One is "To treat someone in a condescending manner." and the other meaning to "support or sponsor". There is a difference, and I don't think you could use "aiding/defending somebody" sense in a "Don't patronize me!" sentence. That sentence will have to use the "To treat someone in a condescending manner." meaning.

user288256

13:12

But as you know, I'm a non native speaker, so if you can prove me wrong then by all means. I'm all ears.

Just win baby

hi @Gigili

Tonepoet

@Ghalib This is more about the historical development of figurative use than anything else. You'll note that in the link I provided, the condescending meaning was not yet recorded.

user288256

@Tonepoet Yeah I know. I read that other meaning in AHD.

user288256

@Tonepoet So why use the old definition? It only complicates things.

Gigili

'ello.

Just win baby

13:18

how are you?

Tonepoet

@Ghalib Whatever others might have you believe, complicating matters isn't always bad. Thoughts can already be infinitely complex, and it is the job of language to communicate those thoughts. A greater variety of significations allows that to be done more accurately. Additionally, much of the beauty in the language is lost when a figurative sense of a word is added to a lexicon, since the point of a figure of speech, as opposed to a word the intended import, is to have people figure it out.

user288256

@Tonepoet Got it, professor. By the way, I will talk to you later. Time to drink some tea and eat some toast now. :P

user288256

I would share it with you but we are on the internet.

Tonepoet

@Ghalib I hope the tea turns out good.

Mitch

13:52

@Ghalib That reminds me of a joke

but when I googled for it I found it on Quora and a dating advice site, and so all humor has been drained from it.

Tonepoet

@Mitch Has a joke being all dried up ever stopped you from making it before? =P

Just win baby

@Tonepoet I don't understand?

Mitch

@Ghalib I have a question for you. What is the first day of the work week for you (and most people around you)? is it today (Sunday Jun 25) or yesterday or tomorrow?

And does Eid really mess that up?

@Tonepoet haha... wait...what?

I had never heard those dad jokes before last week. I am innocent. With respect to those couple of jokes

@Tonepoet but like all ingroup vernaculars, they continue there and also have slowly crept into popular usage so that we don't even notice. Totally.

of course no one uses 'tubular' and probably didn't even back then

gnarly is still used for troublesome waves and difficult situations.

excellent is practically mainstream, dude.

Tonepoet

I don't know if you're trying to be a valley girl, a surfer or a ninja turtle ...

Mitch

Exactly

Tonepoet

14:02

Not quite exactly, since none of those things are exactly normal. XP

And naturally, the most normal of these things is the Ninja Turtle. >_>

Just win baby

perhaps some combination...

<_<

Mitch

@Ghalib I had never heard of this until you just mentioned it here now. UD, as far as one can trust it, confirms your intuitions. What kind of chat rooms traffic in this sort of usage?

Just win baby

tight nit groups

mostly high schoolers

Mitch

@Justwinbaby ahh.. chatrooms to discuss how to remove lice?

Tonepoet

@Mitch I wouldn't trust U.D. at all, except perhaps for maybe the printed out selection, because it underwent some editorial control. It actually has a relatively decent definition of the word "Glomp" as it is used by the anime community, which is something no other dictionary has yet covered to my knowledge, although I have my doubts about "yuppie food stamp" referring to a $20 bill.

Mitch

14:10

@Tonepoet 'at all' is a bit strong. You can get some vague idea of a word, and a little confirmation bias isn't terrible

Just win baby

@Mitch sorta kinda

Mitch

I haven't been able to get a straight idea of what 'ratched' really means from it.

and sure many individual words are just not covered well.

they all seem to interpret any word with sexual innuendo where the reality is not so specific.

Just win baby

sex sells

Mitch

eg 'hey oh'

Tonepoet

@Mitch My only complaint is that I can not express the sentiment more strongly. Unless I am already acquainted with a term in it, I'll always suspect that somebody is playing a prank or trying to legitimize their neologism.

Mitch

14:13

wait...reading that entry isn't what I remember

there was a McWhorter podcast about something like that a few weeks back and they referred to UD

Just win baby

Are you an English Professor? @Tonepoet

Mitch

@Tonepoet oh certainly. people put all sorts of crap in there. they had a drunken conversation, said something idiotic that with beer-headphone sounded hilarious and they added it to UD at that time, right before vomiting and passing out.

Tonepoet

@Justwinbaby No. Mitch started calling me professor with a hint of sarcastic irony, to indicate what I was saying was common knowledge, and then Ghalib picked it up from there.

Just win baby

I see.

Mitch

It was more for dramatic irony. Or was it denouement?

Oh, re castng in Star Trek, I have been admonished in real life. Of course they were totally revolutionary in their casting in TOS. And though they didn't really extend the envelope very quickly in later seasons they still tried.

This all came out of watching a handful of TOS episodes and noting that even though many of the main cast (and corresponding characters) were non-WASP, it seemed like every single non-speaking extra was white-white-white (and male).

I thin 538 should do a numerical analysis of all the series and their cast.

That would satisfy me.

That and some oreos and milk

Tonepoet

14:24

@Mitch What does W.A.S.P. mean?

Mitch

WASP is... googlabe but I can say...

White Angle-Saxon Protestant

the country club set (well, that's an extremely small subset but it gives you an idea)

So it excludes Irish and Catholic (and Irish Catholic?)

I can't tell if it really excludes Scots because that ain't Anglo-Saxon but the Scots are the source of a lot of US mainstream moneyed elite

So of TOS, Shatner (though Jewish) passes for WASP and McCoy, the 'country' doctor character definitely.

But Scotty is 'ethnic' Scot

Nimoy, as Vulcan and sciency and legalistic, is a Jewish stand in (but actually is Jewish). So not WASPy at all

Just win baby

not to be confused with WOP

Tonepoet

Why do Catholics get excluded?

Just win baby

they are not Protestant

Mitch

@Justwinbaby that's more of a derogatory term

Tonepoet

14:34

@Justwinbaby Mitch just noted that Scots aren't Anglo, and might be excluded regardless. XP

tchrist

If English is to anglo- as Irish is to hiberno-, what then is the corresponding prefix for Scottish?

jinx

Mitch

@Tonepoet look man, I'm not making the rules

Tonepoet

@Mitch I thought you might know why Mr. Messenger.

Mitch

@tchrist albino?

tchrist

Dover had the white cliffs.

Just win baby

14:35

and lemmings jump off cliffs :P

tchrist

Caledonian.

Mitch

@Tonepoet maybe as a proxy for Irish -and- Polish? -and- French, though French Candian in the US doesn't seem to be a discriminated minority.

Tonepoet

Mitch

@Justwinbaby I heard that that was entirely faked.

there was a rumor that one guy said it happened

tchrist

I always thought that Albion was the entire Isle of Britain.

Mitch

14:37

and then some disney documentary wanted to 'stage' the story and they forced a her of lemmings towards a cliff and filmed it

now everyone believes.

tchrist

I always thought that Albion was the entire Isle of Britain.

Déjà dit?

I wonder how that happens.

Tonepoet

@Mitch Yeah, it was. The myth was spread by a Disney documentary that faked it for dramatic effect.

Mitch

@tchrist I have this funny feeling i've heard that before

@tchrist cut and paste

@Tonepoet Those monsters

The lemmings I mean.

Leading us to believe they kill themselves en masse only to force the filmmakers to do that to them.

Just win baby

It exemplifies the herd mentality.

tchrist

Appendix:English nationality prefixes

Nationality prefixes are prefixed combining forms relating to a country, nationality, ethnicity, or language, or — most often — to more than one of these. These prefixes are not always etymologically related to the current name; for example, Luso-, which forms words having to do with Portugal, Portuguese, or the Portuguese, derives from Latin....

Mitch

14:42

@Justwinbaby bovinity

Just win baby

Indeed.

Mitch

@tchrist yes. but also Albain is Gaelic for Scotland

@tchrist 'Scoto-'?

tchrist

Etymology of Scotland

Scotland (Scottish Gaelic: Alba pronounced [ˈaɫ̪apə]) is a country that occupies the northern third of the island of Great Britain and forms part of the United Kingdom. The name of Scotland is derived from the Latin Scoti, the term applied to Gaels. The origin of the word Scoti (or Scotti) is uncertain. Brian Boru famously referred to himself in an inscription in the Book of Armagh as a Scot. "Brian “Boru” MacCinneteig, Lion of Thomond, and Emperor of the Irish, was “the last great High King of Ireland” from 1002-1014; Famous for crushing the Viking oppression of Ireland in Limerick and Dublin...

Yes.

But alba is Latin for white. :)

Mitch

@Justwinbaby a salient metaphor that doesn't actually apply to any herds other than people. Herds of elephants or horses or deer going off cliffs? Entirely human forced (probably for hunting purposes, people are sneaky monkeys)

@tchrist A mulatto, an albino, a mosquito, a burrito

tchrist

14:58

Feb 5 at 17:22, by tchrist

@terdon What do mosquitos, churchurritos, and minigogues have in common?

tchrist

15:10

Hmungous

Mitch

15:21

templette?

user288256

@Mitch By "What kind of chat rooms traffic in this sort of usage?" you mean what kind of people visit those places? I'm sorry I don't understand your question.

Tonepoet

Why in heck do so many people try to edit a question to include their answer?

Mitch

@Ghalib What is the specific kind of chat room where you go that people use this sort of term?

user288256

@Mitch You are spot on, Eid messes things up a bit, but in a good way. We get the holidays. It is tomorrow for us, today for Saudia Arabia (if I'm guessing correctly).

user288256

So we get a holiday tomorrow, of course

Mitch

15:25

Is it a chatroom associated with gaming? Or one for talking about politics? or a language learning room? or what

user288256

Then on Tuesday and Wednesday as well

user288256

I have to go to work/college on Thursday.

user288256

@Mitch How come you are familiar with Eid? Do you have muslim friends there?

Mitch

@Ghalib You guys are not that far apart...two time zones at most I would think? is the moon rise happening just right in order to make a difference of a day for observance?

@Ghalib OK so that is hen things are messed up. when things are usual, what day does the work week usually start on?

(where you live)

@Ghalib You meet enough people you become aware of things.

user288256

@Mitch ah yeah :)

user288256

15:28

@Mitch It starts on Monday. And Sat and Sun off usually.

user288256

But not places give Saturday off.

Mitch

But now that I think about it ... I'm pretty sure I know some people who are ending things today.

@Ghalib in the US Sat off is assumed, but because of lots of reasons, weekends aren't off work for a lot of people.

@Ghalib isn't Sunday the start of the work week in SA?

(if you happen to know)

user288256

@Mitch Yeah, it has to do with moon sighting. You are right. Well, I don't know, it seems complicated to me, but what happens is if it is Eid today in Saudia Arabia, then there is a 95% chance that there will be our Eid tomorrow.

user288256

It goes for both Eids.

Mitch

@Ghalib that's what I was thinking

user288256

15:33

Eid Al-Azha and Eid Al-Fitr.

Mitch

wait...which is which? I've only heard of Eid Al-Fitr.

user288256

The big one is Eid Al-Fitr. which is tomorrow.

user288256

And after a few months we get Eid Al-Azha

user288256

@Mitch Yeah it is like that there.

user288256

@Mitch We used to have "Sunday" the start of week too until we started using western style weekdays a decade or so ago. I was very young at the time so don't remember.

Mitch

15:37

@Ghalib I'm confused. I thought you said Sat and Sun are usually off, which would inply that Mon is the start of the workweek

@Ghalib Oh...so it is changing (or changed)

user288256

@Mitch It used to be like that. Now we have workdays like you guys there in US.

Mitch

or it is mixed, some start on Sun, some on Mon?

user288256

@Mitch I mean in SA Sunday is the start of the week. I'm not in SA at the moment =)

Mitch

Oh. Sorry. I confused things myself

user288256

@Mitch The usual reason of Sun-Thurs working days is people want Fri off to perform Juma' prayer.

user288256

15:42

But, honestly, I like Mon-Fri working days.

user288256

Dunno why. I just like it that way

Mitch

I like Tue-Thu working days. With Wed off.

and sometimes Thu because something happening on Fri you want to be able to prepare mentally

user288256

Because it is the middle of the week day?

user288256

@Mitch Like a... date? I mean I don't know what you mean by "something happening"

user288256

haha

user288256

15:48

I'm just joking

user288256

@Mitch I forgot to answer your other question above.

user288256

No, not chatroom per se, I mean communities where we can smash keys on our mechanical keyboards or phones until an appropriately acerbic comment materializes on the screen.

user288256

In other words toxic communities. I don't go there to take part, I just read their discussions sometimes, because... it is fun.

Mitch

16:56

@Ghalib Like maybe a bigger lunch than usual

@Ghalib that's not here?

user288256

17:15

@Mitch As well.

NVZ

19:02

Help me with this conundrum.

What original content should we provide for answers under single-word requests?

I usually copypasta from dictionaries.

I am not proud of that.

But I do not think I have the right skills to define things better than a dictionary does.

If my suggested word is in my view not a perfect fit, then and only then I will add a small note mentioning that.

Otherwise I'll have posted just copypasta.

What's the original content that I'm supposed to post?

tchrist

I don't think that providing nothing but link-farmed copypasta can ever count as an expert answer; do you?

NVZ

I know

It's not the best thing to do

But what is?

tchrist

Reasoning given in your own words.

Original content.

Examples.

Reflections.

Comparisons and contrasts.

Musings even.

NVZ

Okay. So that means, if I suggest a single-word, say, Understated. english.stackexchange.com/a/395640/50044

tchrist

Something that's recognizably in your own voice.

NVZ

19:08

Do I have to make my own defintions?

tchrist

That one you just now mentioned isn't completely terrible.

NVZ

Uhm, it is.

It is just copypasta

Nothing is in it that needs an expert knowledge of the language.

tchrist

Well, you give one copypasta answer, but point the way to many more.

NVZ

I see

tchrist

These have been our bane since the site's creation.

NVZ

19:10

I'm aware.

I have no other means of getting extra privileges.

tchrist

I just don't think that an answer which is nothing but copypasta counts.

And if the argument is that that is all the asker needs, then I wonder about our mission here.

NVZ

My wish is to frequent all review queues, do some moderation activities often. That way, I'm exposed to all kinds of weird questions, and that way I learn more about the language.

But the SE model limits that to certain privileges.

tchrist

Jun 21 at 15:54, by tchrist

I'm ready to add the single-word-requests tag to my banned list I never see. I'm tired of trash.

NVZ

I cannot get those privileges without reputation. I cannot get reputation without asking or answering.

I cannot ask stupid questions, because I am fluent, kind of.

tchrist

I understand that SWRs are trivial ways to gain reps.

NVZ

19:12

I cannot provide expert answers, because I'm an Indian.

tchrist

I'm not really thinking about that, though.

NVZ

All I have is the SWR.

tchrist

@NVZ I don't know that that follows.

NVZ

On that note, I'm about to get a gold badge for SWR

tchrist

Oh good, more Mjölnir!

NVZ

19:13

Oh. I mean, I'm Indian. So my language is usually just a mix of all kinds of English i'm exposed to.

I do not have the ear of a native speaker.

tchrist

Isn't everyone's? :)

Well, that's different.

NVZ

So I cannot explain nuances and stuff

tchrist

But we're all the product of everything we hear.

NVZ

All I can do is copypasta.

tchrist

We've got a couple members here from India who actually are native speakers of English. I know that's comparatively rare.

NVZ

19:15

I do have an ear for around 5 Indian languages, English, and Arabic.

tchrist

Maybe 3 or 4 even.

But most, as you point out, are not.

NVZ

Yeah, I am fluent.

tchrist

We've noticed. :)

NVZ

I've been to top level English medium schools. Not in India. I grew up in the middle East.

All over the Middle East actually.

tchrist

Western Asia is a funny place.

NVZ

19:16

Haha

tchrist

Let me guess, you ended up living there by occident?

NVZ

I've binge watched English programs since I was in a fetal position. (Or is there a better idiomatic phrase?)

Not by accident. LOL

tchrist

There are worse ways to assimilate a language.

NVZ

So, back to my conundrum, can you show me an example for an original content for a SWR question?

I'll then try and do my best to make original content based on that model

tchrist

Let me dig around for a spell.

NVZ

19:18

But.. No promises.

Thanks.

tchrist

105

A: Idiom or word for a very crowded place

If it is extremely crowded, you can say "packed like sardines in a can" or just "packed like sardines" or "packed." This comes from the way sardines are tightly packed into cans when canned for eating: Strictly speaking, some people will object to this usage: both the place and the people in i...

NVZ

I'll look into that

Thanks

tchrist

19

A: A word for an intentional error or absurdity inserted to check whether audience read an entire passage

In the United States, such a nonsensical insertion might be referred to as a "brown M&M" clause. As this article from Snopes.com reports, the rock band Van Halen included a contract provision at performances that the band be supplied with a bowl of M&M candies (which normally come in a mixture of...

10

A: A 17th century colloquial term for children, in the way we use 'kids' today

If you are looking for a term specific to seventeenth-century London underworld cant, you might find these two terms from Richard Head, The English Rogue: Described, in the Life of Meriton Latroon (1665) useful: Lullabie-cheat A Childe Palliard One whose Father is a Beggar born Accordi...

16

A: What's an eponymous adjective that is an antonym of Machiavellian?

Before we can suggest terms that might stand as opposites to Machiavellian, we need to nail down what people mean by that term. Here is the entry for Machiavellian in Merriam-Webster's Eleventh Collegiate Dictionary (2003): Machiavellian adj. {Niccolo Machiavelli} (1572) 1 : of or relating to...

NVZ

@tchrist That is an interesting answer, and I've +1d it. But in my view, the linked TFD definitions are actually concise, on point, and easy to understand. So why would we need a long answer?

tchrist

17

A: Word for people who buy things because they are more expensive/ for the brand

People who only buy things made by famous labels are often called brand conscious. People who buy things because they are high quality are called quality conscious. I would use brand conscious also for people who buy things solely because they are expensive (I believe they are largely the same s...

@NVZ Because we like long answers, not short ones.

We want to create something new.

12

A: Is there a plural of "metropolis", not "metropolises", that would sound better in a less formal register?

Metropolis is originally a Greek word, but comes to English through Latin. The Latin plural is metropoles (presumably pronounced with /iːz/ instead of /ɪs/). The Greek plural is metropoleis. If you look at a Google Ngram, metropolises is used most of the time, but metropoles is not uncommon. Metr...

NVZ

19:24

Yea, but long answers are meant to be a sort of explanation.

tchrist

41

A: crisscross, dillydally, riffraff, etc

Frozen reduplicative phrases like these, especially ones made of nonsense or phonosemantic roots like riffraff or hocus-pocus, are simply called Freezes in the literature, following Cooper and Ross 1975*, the first study to investigate them thoroughly. Of course, freezes like hocus-pocus don't ...

@NVZ I figure that if all they need is dictionary copypasta, it isn't a good question.

NVZ

Why explain further, when the existing explanation is designed by paid linguists working for a dictionary company.

I do want explanations, but I want new information, information that dictionaries cannot provide.

tchrist

I personally don't think that's our mission here. It seems unworthy of us.

10

A: Questionee? Inquiree? Interrogatee?

Addressee is the usual technical term for anyone being talked to, without regard to whether the talking involves a question, a statement, an order, a promise, or whatever. I don't know of any that specifically refer to questions, though. Questionee and interrogatee are grotesque hapax legomena t...

NVZ

I'll look into all these posts you linked to.

Our mission is to help people use English in a better way.

Agreed?

So, for people who can't find the right words to express a concept will need a place to ask for a word or expression.

tchrist

I should probably simply put the tag on my banned list.

NVZ

19:27

And who better than SE to provide a platform for that?

tchrist

Too Broad

Let a few dozen people each suggest a copypasta word, and then have the community vote on it. Is that making the internet a better place?

More to the point, where is the expert part?

6

A: Non-offensive substitute for a swear word

Q: Is there a term for replacing one slang word with another made-up slang word? In addition to euphemism, the more general term is bowdlerisation (to bowdlerise, bowdlerised): From Thomas Bowdler who in 1818 published a censored version of Shakespeare, expurgating "those words and expre...

NVZ

It is crystal clear that people from all around the world are struggling with "what's a word for that" kind of questions. If not SE, some clever fool somewhere will design a better platform, and all of these users will go there.

tchrist

I haven't done any of my own, you'll notice.

16

A: Word for someone who acts like an expert but who has very little knowledge?

Cryptonescient Morosophs and Ultracrepidarians The cryptonescient are best described as morosophs and ultracrepidarians, as any philodox or sumpsimus drawn into this epeolatrous logomachy like a saturnid to a pharol will deliciate in apprising you with all due impigrity. Those epithets you may ...

That fixes this lacuna. :)

NVZ

Haha. That is nice.

@tchrist this.

I wish I could write or speak like that.

You're a native speaker, I presume

AmE, right?

tchrist

Yes.

Great Lakes dialect.

NVZ

19:34

I, otoh, may never reach an expert level on any language, because all my life I've been juggling with these 6 languages.

tchrist

@NVZ English even has a word for people who can write like that.

We call them....

writers :)

NVZ

Yea.

Not really.

I'd say, crazy writers.

tchrist

One man's flair is the next man's crazy.

NVZ

google.com/search?q=crazy+writers

tchrist

Writing is a craft one hones with practice.

NVZ

19:36

What other anguages do you handle?

tchrist

The Romance ones.

Except for Romanian.

NVZ

As a mod, can you see what percentage of our visitors have SWR as their main or top scoring tag?

And without the tag, how many visitors do you think we'll have (in relative percentage or something)?

tchrist

@NVZ I don't think the data I have available to me let me slice it up that way.

NVZ

Fair enough.

But with the experience you have here, maybe you can make a guesstimate?

tchrist

I wonder if there mightn't be a way, though.

I don't know. It's our most common tags. I don't know about correlation with visits though.

NVZ

19:40

I think, more than 50% of our users are here mainly due to SWRs.

Wild guess.

I'm sure, I'd not be here without it.

Or I'd be here, but as a lurker. Or what's the word?

tchrist

Lurker is good.

NVZ

See!

Without SWR, who could have told me the word for that!

Not my friends, I'm sure.

They are not as fluent as I think I am.

Also, I have no American friends.

I do have a few in Nederlands, Serbia, somehow.

Alright. Thanks for your time. I'll look into those linked posts.

tchrist

21:39

Who can you tell the difference between ü and ii in cursive?

Just win baby

I can.

a "u" and a "ii"

Tonepoet

@tchrist I don't think it's an unworthy cause at all. There so many words in the English Language (est. 1 million) that even the O.E.D. (est. 600,000) doesn't define them all. Even a highly educated person might only recognize 75,000 words total, and only around 3,000 are regularly used. Naturally, all of the million words serve a purpose, and it is very difficult to find just the right one is difficult enough in and of itself.

However, the combined vocabulary of everybody, and especially people who have personal experience with some of the more obscure terms may just be able to identify just the right one. The last time I checked, there was not really a definitive answer on Google for What is a person who rides on camel-back called? but the answer of cameleer is more or less perfect.

Just win baby

camel jockey

Tonepoet

@Justwinbaby That's two words, and it's very specifically a single word request. Camel rider was already discarded for that reason. It was seeking a word similar to equestrian.

Just win baby

camel-jockey :P

ok, cameleer is great then

Tonepoet

21:49

Yeah, so getting back to the point here, the answer could easily be reduced down to a single line containing just a single definition (rather than many) and the citation, and even fit on a single line without need of further explanation. Now I realize that we generally dislike that type of answer for most questions here on Stack Exchange, because they generally don't require any special expertise, but having the vocabulary is a sort of vindicating expertise in and of itself, in my opinion.

Granted, that does not mean I think it is the approach we should take to all S.W.Rs. either. It very much depends upon the word being sought, and how axiomatic the applicability is.

Tonepoet

22:25

@NVZ With that having been said though, the existing explanations by lexicographers, esp. in recent decades, really only give the barest gist of a word's actual meaning. We can do so, so much better, and I think Mr. Shiny's explanation will give somebody a better understanding of the simile than the McGraw-Hill definition. If we were to come from the perspective of somebody unfamiliar with English idiom, why use the word "packed" in the definition of "packed very tightly" anyway?

It doesn't always mean to fill up tight. Sometimes it just means to put something into something else, for transportation or storage. Showing how sardines are usually packed helps to disambiguate which of the two meanings is meant, and why somebody would specifically make ta comparison with sardines.

Frrank

Hi everyone how you doing?

Tonepoet

Granted, I suppose the "tightly" is also a contextual clue, but I don't think it's completely transparent unless you had prior knowledge. When writing answers, we generally assume you don't.

Frrank

Can I ask you a question?

anyone?

Tonepoet

@Frrank You may ask, but I can't guarantee an answer.

Which doesn't mean I won't try to do so, but my own knowledge is limited and I can't speak for anybody else.

Frrank

@Tonepoet thanks it's a very simple question actually I'm filling a small startup form and due to fact english is my second language I'm hesitant to answer the question with wrong grammar.

Why are you motivated to join this program?

Tonepoet

22:36

@Frrank What type of response were you considering?

Frrank

something passionate.

Tonepoet

@Frrank Hmm, well, okay, that is understandable. However, this is not exactly the sort of question that has a definitive answer that can just be given by somebody else. I need an initial draft of an answer.

Frrank

Here's what I'm thinking. " I want to join your program because as an early stge startup this can really help me to grow, As I believe this will challenge me a I like to take on a challenge; I like to rise to that challenge. Also It's complexity of our product we need some great guidance which your program will help us to achieve.

As our path is field with challenges your program can help us to conquer it earlier and I like to take on a challenge; I like to rise to that challenge. I'm determine that sooner or later we will succeed init

"

I want to join your program because as an early stge startup this can really help me to grow, As I believe this will challenge me a I like to take on a challenge; I like to rise to that challenge. Also It's complexity of our product we need some great guidance which your program will help us to achieve.
As our path is field with challenges your program can help us to conquer it earlier and I like to take on a challenge; I like to rise to that challenge. I'm determine that sooner or later we will succeed init.

@Tonepoet you got it.

"I want to join your program because as an early stage startup this can really help me to grow, Also the complexity of our product we need some great guidance, which I believe your program can provide.
Also our path is full with challenges your program can help us to conquer it earlier and our product is init self is a challenge- I like to take on a challenge; I like to rise to that challenge. I'm determine that sooner or later we will succeed init, with your program it can be sooner" I improved it @Tonepoet

Tonepoet

22:55

@Frrank "Init" should be two words, which are in it.

Also, I need some time to consider this.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…