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03:12
@Dair the surface is likely to be set in stone. However, V and A are arbitrary parameters.
@Dair a more likely way to do it is to just do tubes and surfaces that I can make a perfect algorithm for. To be honest, I shouldn't be so ambitious. The one thing I know which can be used for comparison primarily uses planes, ellipsoids, and tubes. I'm sure I can get by with just that.
03:28
@Dair is there any way you could help me write it up as a question for MSE? I'm looking to write it as whatever it needs to be. Then I can determine what I can compute myself using correct algorithms and what I can compute using approximating methods. Does that make sense? I'd rather see the equations for myself rather than make assumptions.
@Semiclassical what if sinx<0
then cosec x<0 too
i see
if x>1, then 1/x<1, x>0
?
@TheGreatDuck I don't really work on that stuff. At this point, since we're dealing with numerical approximations, this is probably better suited for scicomp.stackexchange.com
@Dair I'm not wanting to ask a question about the approximations.
I'm wanting to know what the actual geodesic finding formulae are.
03:42
uh... huh... that's a hard problem... i'm pretty sure that geodesics are a subfield of calculus of variations...
your best bet is to investigate calculus of variations and see what that tells you.
sh**
I assumed it was a simple partial derivative thingy. :p
Ted mentioned it was pretty hard.
I thought he meant hard as in "the arclength equation relies on an integral which may or may not have a closed form"
tubes and spheres it is then
@Dair I just got it!
I figured out how I will do it!
wait nope
or maybe
:/
@Dair would a surface consisting purely of flat faces be easier to do?
idk. seems like it could be easier... but it could still be computational extremely difficult.
what sequence of faces do you want to choose to get the minimal length?
03:49
you need to find the shortest path?
I'm picking a direction and a length and getting a point
NO
oh just a path...
it might be easier...
I have a point and wish to go along a geodesic in a certain direction x units
if it were all triangles, would it be trivial?
it occurred to me that I shouldn't be using the theoretical parametric equation to find my points. I should be using the 3D model itself.
and 3D models are purely polygonal
or something like, so you're computing geodesics on simplicial complexes...
actually, I think it might be incredibly easy.
simple algorithm
I check whether the distance remains in the triangle I'm on
if not, then I have to bend to another triangle
in fact, i can probably assign a triangle to the player as the triangle it is "upon"
then I just have to find the mapping that let's one bend around corners
it's probably a smooth rotation a la when I had to deal with sharp corners when constructing 3D models of tubes around arbitrary non-smooth curves
in fact, all I have to do is implement my 3D model system. I've got it!
03:56
ok lol. gl.
@Dair two triangles will always share an edge. Basically, I just have to have someone turn the corner. Know what I mean? The distance can then just be iteratively truncated until the destination is reached. A little inefficient but not so much to actually hurt the game's runtime.
im gonna go ask a question about it to verify my ideas
this is much more trivial to deal with
:p
two triangles can just share a point...
@Dair referring to a 3D model here.
the construction of a 3D model of a parametric equation warrants that sort of form. Not by requirements but rather by the algorithms design. So, I can actually claim that for simplicity.
It will make things easier
(i hope)
Hi
actually what is the temperature of the ocean land interface ? any idea or references?
04:26
@BAYMAX wat...
"ocean land interface"
yes like the boundary between Ocean and land ?@TheGreatDuck
how is that at all relevant here?
I know it is not relevant here! but it is a part of a numerical method problem though
like it appears in a coefficient
04:28
that makes no sense
then go ask on physics
or climate
:p
@Dair let me ask you this, if I take an entire Euclidean plane and fold it along one straight line to make a crease, does the surface still fulfill all of Euclid's five postulates?
I have asked this everywhere in chat in M,P,B,C:)
@TheGreatDuck
then ask an actual question
or use google
or maybe: it's something you're supposed to calculate
Ok, have some Ice-cream :)
....
you're being weird
:p
hi
@Abhishekstudent welcome to math stack exchange chat. How can I be of assistance to you?
Hi @Abhishekstudent this is BAYMAX, simple health care and little Math care companion!
05:09
here is a wuestion
i mean question
ok
im waiting
yes
one second
classify the following function as injective, bijective or surjective if it is defined from R to R
here you go
what is your definition of injective?
05:15
for any
one value of x
there is only one output
as in f(x1)=f(x2)
implies x1=x2
ok
bijective?
both injective and surjective
and by surjective I mean
range = codomain
alrighty
I believe it is not injective
mentally computing the counter example now
you are right
there is no point this function is 0
at least, in the real numbers
05:18
yeah
the bottom term cannot be 0 anywhere either
but we can still factor the top and bottom
It cannot be surjective. Do you see why?
the solution to the top one is $-2 \pm \sqrt{-26}$. The solution to the bottom one is $4 \pm \sqrt{-2}$. We cannot factor.
wait!
05:23
because discriminant of both the quadratics in numerator and denominator is less than o
O
i know why it cannot be surjective
which implies both are always positive
so, they dont cover the -ve range
i can beat it with a weaker argument
05:23
go ahead
there is no real value for which the bottom is 0 or the top is 0. Therefore, the function is defined for all real values. However, there is no value for which the function returns 0. Therefore, the input does not equal the output and so it is not surjective.
Right. It's essentially the same argument, just using only one point (0).
you could also just argue that it is defined for 0 and yet there is no result that returns 0.
since we aren't talking about the size of the range so much as the exact points in the range
05:25
well, my argument is correct too
isnt it?
It absolutely is.
maybe or maybe not
I'd personally need more justification on why it is never negative.
but that's just me.
My argument was that $f(x)$ is never $= 0$, yours was that $f(x)$ is never $\leq 0$.
@TheGreatDuck In this case it's obvious from the discriminant and the sign of each polynomial.
@Fargle I'm not saying it isn't true. I am just not as keen on accepting that as true.
I've done a lot of proofing this spring and so I've become a little more conservative in such things
a counter example to injectiveness can arise by finding where the polynomials on the top and bottom intersect
simple as that
anyways
im gonna head out
(there should be two points where the function equals 1 methinks)
The function actually only hits 1 once.
But it does hit 2 twice.
@Abhishekstudent One way to argue for injectivity would be to show what I just said--that there is an $x$ where $f(x) = 2$, or where $x^2 + 4x +30 = 2(x^2 - 8x + 18)$.
Then just distribute, simplify, and solve for $x$. If you find two different $x$ where this equation is true, you have two $x$ where $f(x) = 2$, and you lose injectivity.
05:35
yeah
 
1 hour later…
06:45
Jesus, abstract algebra is a clever field.
Can we solve this analytically $\frac{dy}{dx} = c_{1} + c_{2}y + c_{3}/y , y(0) = 1$?
@BAYMAX Try separating variables.
so you mean like this one?
$\frac{dy}{c_{1} + c_{2}y + c_{3}/y} = dx$
and then integrating
Right.
both sides
so $x = \int (\frac{1}{c_{1}+c_{2}y + c_{3}/y}) + c$
Now how do we evaluate the integral
?
@Fargle
06:54
I'd recommend multiplying by $y/y$, then completing the square on the denominator.
You'll get $ln$|stuff|.
(Well, some $k\cdot ln$|stuff|.)
Let $p = c_{1}y + c_{2}.y^2 + c_{3}$
so $\int (\frac{y}{c_{1}y + c_{2}.y^2 + c_{3}}) dy$
so $dp = c_{1}dy + 2c_{2}y.dy$
so the integral becomes $\int(\frac{dp - c_{1}dy)}{2.c_{2}p}$
Now how to proceed @Fargle
Like I said, it gets way easier if you complete the square on $p$ first.
Do you mean that I should make $c_{1}y + c_{2}y^2 + c_{3}$ a perfect square?
@Fargle
@BAYMAX Get it into a form $(y + a)^2 + b$.
Or I guess, $(ky + a)^2 + b$ because in this case it's not monic.
Then the integral will basically split into an ln and either an arctan or arcsec.
I don't know if you'll be able to find y in terms of x, though, at least not without a really clever idea, which I don't have.
so here it is
$(c_{1}y + c_{2}y^2 + c_{3}) = (\sqrt{\frac{-c_{1}^2}{4.c_{2}} + \sqrt{c_{2}}.y)^2 + (c_{3} - \frac{c_{1}^2}{4.c_{2}})$
some error in latex
any help in solving that,will be back soon!
07:40
why is latex not displayed properly over here?
@Abhishekstudent Are you on mobile? If not, check the link in the top right (that says LaTeX in chat)
i am on pc alright
yeah
got it
thanks
No problem.
Math is always most fun when it is most easily communicated.
$(c_{1}y + c_{2}y^2 + c_{3}) = (\sqrt{\frac{-c_{1}^2}{4.c_{2}}} + \sqrt{c_{2}}.y)^2 + (c_{3} - \frac{c_{1}^2}{4.c_{2}})$
@Fargle
07:54
Oh goodness.
Hang on, I've actually got to go for a bit, but I'll be back on.
what happens when you a square an inequality?
@Fargle @BAYMAX
Squaring an inequality I think mathematically makes no sense!
@Abhishekstudent
08:02
ok
how to solve this then
which one?
$/sqrtx$$\leq1$
one sec
$\sqrt x $$\leq$1
how to solve this?
$\sqrt{x} \leq 1$
multiply both sides by $\sqrt{x}$ , now as this is a non-negative number ,so there wil be no change in signs in the inequality
that is $\sqrt{x}\sqrt{x} \leq \sqrt{x}$
so $x \leq \sqrt{x}$
08:08
yep
now
next we know $\sqrt{x} \leq 1$
so $x \leq \sqrt{x} \leq 1$
$x \leq 1$
08:09
hmm
k thanks
Np
it seems like we are squaring the inequality
but it is not,right!
08:34
hey @Maxxx this is BAYMAX :)
08:46
baywatch
I'm trying to prove that $c(cA)=A)$, where c is the complement to the set A.
I understand it by drawing it, but after the initial "Let $x∈c(cA)$", I'm having a hard time proving that it equals exactly to A.
is there a way to show latex expressions in chat?
Go to the URL at top right LATEX in chat and save the page as abookmark in your chrome browser!
09:19
0
Q: Solving the Ordinary Differential Equation $\frac{dy}{dx} = c_{1} + c_{2}y + \frac{c_{3}}{y} , y(0) = c , c >0$.

BAYMAXI was trying to solve this ODE $\frac{dy}{dx} = c_{1} + c_{2}y + \frac{c_{3}}{y} , y(0) = c , c >0$. where $c_{1},c_{2},c_{3}$ are three real numbers say $c_{1} < 0,c_{2},c_{3} > 0$. I thought of using separation of variables giving me $x = \int(\frac{y}{c_{1}y+c_{2}y^2+c_{3}})dy + c$. Next I ...

Any help on this question?
09:32
$x$ is the LCM of the numbers in the interval $[1,30]$. Similarly $y$ is the LCM for $[1,35]$. How to find $\frac{y}{x}$?
09:44
ok, so that's why it's weird: While $\epsilon_0=\omega^{\omega^{\omega^⋰}}=\omega [4] \omega =\omega [5] 2$, incrementing the subscript of the epsilon numbers one by one is NOT incrementing the pentation. To see this note the following:

$\epsilon_1=\sup(\epsilon_0,\epsilon_0^{\epsilon_0},\epsilon_0^{\epsilon_0^{\epsilon_0}},...)=\sup(\omega [4] \omega,(\omega [4] \omega)[3]2, (\omega [4] \omega)[3]3,...)=(\omega [4] \omega) [3] \omega \neq \omega [4] (\omega +1)$

Therefore what is happening when going from $\epsilon_0$ to $\epsilon_{\omega}$ is we are exponentiating the previous term $\om
and the reason why it seemed to connect nicely with the previous (insert word) which is tetration is because of the fact that ${}^{(\omega)}\omega={}^{\omega}(\omega)$
sorry typo: Correct version below:
$\epsilon_1=\sup(\epsilon_0,\epsilon_0^{\epsilon_0},\epsilon_0^{\epsilon_0^{\epsilon_0}},...)=\sup(\omega [4] \omega,(\omega [4] \omega)[4]2, (\omega [4] \omega)[4]3,...)=(\omega [4] \omega) [4] \omega \neq \omega [4] (\omega [4] \omega )=\omega [5] 3$

Therefore what is happening when going from $\epsilon_0$ to $\epsilon_{\omega}$ is we are tetrating the previous term $\omega$ times for $\omega$ iterations, which is not a hyperoperation.
hey
any1 here?
$f(z)=e^{iy}$ where $z=x+yi$ is this function constant since its $|f(z)|=1$ ?? what am i missing?
ive read a theorem saying if |f(z)|=c then f=c
10:27
@ManolisLyviakis That theorem is absolutely incorrect.
@Fargle im quoting luivilles theorem more or less
but it seems i made a bad assumption on f to be analytic seems it is not
its weird cause $e^z$ is analytic i thought a similar function would be also
Lioville theorem needs a bounded holomorphic function of the whole of $\Bbb C$
@ManolisLyviakis Yeah, $f$ has to be holomorphic, but $e^{iy}$ isn't holomorphic.
Generally, if you're working with $x$ and $y$ instead of the whole $z$, you don't get holomorphic.
For example, $z^n$ and $e^z$ are holomorphic on all of $\Bbb C$, but something like $f(x+iy) = x + 4yi$ isn't.
yeah my bad on doing such big assumptions
and i can see the reason why its cause when working with a whole z its doenst break the symmetry on cauchy riemman equations. Its hard to get equal partial derivatives with no symmetrical or with a certain pattern on the coeficients
\begin{align}
\sup(\{0|j\in\Bbb{N}\})& =\sup(\{0,0,0,\cdots\})=0\\
0+0+\cdots<1\\
\sup(\{j|j\in\Bbb{N}\})&=\sup(\{0,1,2,\cdots\})=\omega=1+\omega\\
\sup(\{\omega+j|j\in\Bbb{N}\})&=\sup(\{\omega,\omega+1,\omega+2,\cdots\})=\omega 2\\
\sup(\{\omega j|j\in\Bbb{N}\})&=\sup(\{0,\omega,\omega 2,\cdots\})=\omega^2=\omega+\omega^2\\
\sup(\{\omega^j|j\in\Bbb{N}\})&=\sup(\{1,\omega,\omega^2,\cdots\})={}^2\omega=\omega ({}^2\omega)\\
\sup(\{{}^j\omega|j\in\Bbb{N}\})&=\sup(\{1,\omega,\omega^{\omega},\cdots\})=\epsilon_0=\omega^{\epsilon_0}\\
10:48
Anybody knows a place to play the sprouts game by mathematician John Conway ?
(Or we can make a seperate chatroom - like Contact (of Puzzling StackExchange) to play it)
If I remember the game right: How would you play it in a text-based chat?
Isn't it all about drawing curvy lines and stuffs?
Well, we should all agree upon a good secured image upload + instant image editing server, then share a temporary ID and play.
To answer your first question: I have no idea
Actually,it might now be a good time to return to the ordinal collapse function question simpleart gave me many moons ago, because the Veblen stuff still look as arcane as before
10:52
Something like twiddla.
I think the key to the ordinal collapse function is to work out the rule of the supremum function $\Psi (\alpha)$
What's twiddla?
Or something like $MSPaint \rightarrow Imgur \rightarrow Chat \rightarrow MSPaint \rightarrow \cdots$
Basically any secured online image collaboration tool will work.
Hm. There should hopefully be some online service that goes to chat directly…
I mean, some online-based thing to use instead of Paint, so you don't need to go through Imgur.
(For something like the mathematical analogue of this or this )
10:54
Otherwise it feel very inconvenient.
@AkivaWeinberger Yeah. I think there would be many people interested to play.
Something with the flavor of teamviewer.
It's a great idea, but I'll be of limited help, since I feel like you'd want someone who knows how to code
What about a publicly shared google doc ? (Also, I nneed you to create a room)
youtube.com/watch?v=zj9HzJqzMoA Skip to 1:15 there exist some site where we can draw online together
Brilliant. Let's create a new room. (and make me the owner too :P)
(Also for other recreational mathematics games)
Oh, wait, looks paid
Oh, never mind, that's just premium
First test: @AkivaWeinberger or @Fawad :
Join the link.
Anybody created the room ?
11:03
@AlexKChen works
11:21
Hello
is there any room dedicated to Financial calculation ?
:(
I need math and financial aspects
like what's exactly reserve means in financial domain
I created an algorithme to search the premium of a person that will earn a capital duration a period of time
my algorithm based on Newton Raphson method
@AkivaWeinberger Wat r u doin?
math is good :D
I have a question in Math
all people know the rules of derivations
for example to derivate f(x) = 2x ==> f '(x) = 2
I would like to know what does means derivation in th real world
I would translate the derivation to physics
The derivative of distance is velocity, the derivative of velocity is acceleration
Derivative to time, that is
11:33
@AkivaWeinberger @Fawad Done. Come and play:

 Recreational math games

For playing various recreational but mathematical games, e.g S...
any app kind of thing which help me plot $c1 + c2*x + c3/x$
@Krijn okay thanks ^^
having parameters $c1,c2,c3$ which i can vary and check / analyse the graphs
?
yups
11:49
Suppose $p$ is a prime and $n$ is an integer not a multiple of $p$. How would I prove that there is at least one prime in $\{p+nk:k=0,1,2,\dots\}$ not equal to $p$?
Guys, I'm a little bit confused by the way differential equations are solved. Say we have the following:
$$
\theta^2\,d\theta=\sin t\,dt.
$$
I'm guessing this actually meant:
$$
\frac{d\theta}{dt}=\frac{\sin t}{\theta^2}.
$$
Say we consider finite $\Delta t$ and $\Delta\theta$. So we can have the following approximation:
$$
\theta^2\Delta\theta\approx\sin t\Delta t,
$$
hence
$$
\sum_i\theta^2\Delta\theta_i\approx\sum_i\sin t\Delta t_i,
$$
where our $t$ starts at $t_0$ and ends at $t_1$. For each $i$, we can take a $t^*\in[t_1,t_{i+1}]$. However, how about $\theta$? We can't take $\theta(t^*
Assuming it's true, of course
12:03
@ShaVuklia You can consider $\theta$ to be a function of $t$
In fact, in physics, shouldn't everything be a function of $t$?
Well, maybe not
That ODE is separable, thus you can integrate directly since LHS is all in terms of $\theta$ and RHS is in terms of $t$
Regardless, it shouldn't matter if $\theta$ is a function of $t$, if $t$ is a function of $\theta$, or if they're both functions of some common variable; I think it should give you the same answer no matter what.
This is what happens when you take $\lim_{\Delta t_i \to 0}$ bothsides
Well, if they're both functions of some third variable, I suppose $d\theta/dt$ only makes sense if $t$ isn't a constant function of the third variable. But other than that, I think it's fine
Similarly, for the case where $t$ is a function of $\theta$; $~d\theta/dt$ makes no sense if $t$ is a constant function of $\theta$
12:10
21 mins ago, by Akiva Weinberger
Suppose $p$ is a prime and $n$ is an integer not a multiple of $p$. How would I prove that there is at least one prime in $\{p+nk:k=0,1,2,\dots\}$ not equal to $p$?
Apparently this is equivalent to Dirichlet's theorem
It feels like it should be weaker, as Dirichlet says that there are infinitely many primes of that form, but no…
Doesn't that say there are infinitely many such primes
It does, just nontrivially
Call the new prime $p':=p+nk$, and then let $n'$ be a multiple of $n$ greater than $nk$ not a multiple of $p'$.
Yah got it
If you have 1 prime you can repeat that to get another ad infinitum
Right, just with a larger jump size
Wait, derp.
@Akiva yea I get it now
12:15
Yeah, I was being dumb
hi @Semi
I don't need a new jump size
@Akiva we technically have the following:
$$
\sum_i\theta(t)^2\Delta\theta(t_i)\approx\sum_i\sin t\Delta t_i,
$$
I agree, you could just take the same A.P. cut off from $p'$
@ShaVuklia and then you can convert those to Riemann integrals
12:17
yea obviously
@BalarkaSen I was thinking about problem 4, which says that every polynomial has a multiple with prime exponents
The case $f(x)=1+x^n$ is equivalent to Dirichlet, then.
I'd comment on this problem, but I'm on my phone right now
@Akiva Erk
That's some weird problem
I should bookmark them to work on later actually.
Guys, say we have
$$
i\hbar\psi\frac{d\phi}{dt}=-\frac{\hbar^2}{2m}\frac{d^2\psi}{dx^2}\phi+V\psi\phi.
$$
Griffiths says that we can divide by $\psi\phi$. However, how do we know these functions are not zero at certain points? The functions were given as follows, btw:
$$
\Psi(x,t)=\psi(x)\phi(t).
$$
I understand that if $\psi$ or $\phi$ vanishes everywhere, then obviously $\Psi(x,t)=0$. But what happens is for instance $\psi$ vanishes at certain points only? Are we just saying then that our equation only holds for points where $\psi$ and $\phi$ don't vanish?
12:31
Anybody up for a game of sprouts here ?
oh I see now
it's slightly stupid, but in the end the multiply again by $\psi$, which means we actually only divided by $\phi$, but that's ok, because $\phi$ is nonzero anyways
Is there a good chat for discussion vision?
Playing with OpenCV and getting spectacularly poor results :)
13:30
cantor set has lesbegue measure zero, is it also a discrete topological space?
you can try computational science SE @JohanLarsson
Cantor set as a topological space?
Suppose my topology is the usual topology of the reals, is the cantor set discrete?
I suspect it might be because of how the points remaining have lebegue measure zero, thus they should be singletons
but I am not sure how to show that expicitly
The countable product of two point spaces with
the discrete topology is homeomorphic to the Cantor set.
@Secret not only it isn't discrete, it has no isolated points
13:45
So all the points remaining are in intervals of lebegue measure zero?
I always thought only isolated points can have lesbegue measure zero (implied from the proof that countable sets have lesbgue measure zero, where the construction of sequences $\frac{1}{n}$ means any interval that covers each point can be made arbitrarily small)
hi, is the following question answerable?
I meant, is the question provided with complete information? I think I need the number of options per problem/

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