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@Burgi ewwww
i thought it was interesting
@Bob Still not sold on arm ;p
@Burgi ok, let me actually watch it then
the idea is eww
@JourneymanGeek I tried them out. They're not bad :P
12:14 AM
but maybeit's good... lets see!
@JourneymanGeek The old ARM servers were shit (think ~2011 phone)
@Bob its 'stupid' but I'm worried about needing to compile software half the time
But the new ones are nice... think 2016 phone? :P
not that I do it much
@JourneymanGeek Eh, almost all software in debian (and therefore ubuntu) repos have ARM packages
12:16 AM
@Bob and a good chunk of my current stack is python...
aaaaaah he's basing his testing on how long a file copy takes?
Welllll if you wanted to know throughput...
still I bet the overall reliability of this setup is worse than a single portable HDD
@djsmiley2k Cringe. Looks like he is using an older version of OS X too... interesting.
@SimonSheehan The video is a few years old IIRC
@SimonSheehan hmmm, don't care about that, just use proper testing to test. :/
2015 @MichaelFrank
12:19 AM
Hmmm... I swear it was older than that. shrug
@MichaelFrank Says 2015, looks like OS X 10.6 or so to me.
Assuming he's on USB 2 then as well...
@SimonSheehan The comments suggest he is using 2.0
(Mind you I sorta just skimmed through it)
yup, usb 2.0
he says that too.
12:20 AM
I don't hate the concept and it's a neat test, just wish it was done a bit nicer and on more relevant hardware :(
instead, use them as bcache or whatever
and that'd make lots of sense
oh hey it's what I wanted to do with a video in chrome
least it'll hopefully come to chrome too now
12:40 AM
hum de dum
So, turns out tomorrow is the last day for filling our Brazilian IRS papers online.
I have some questions, but fear not, they have a really simple 279 page FAQ.
Oh, and you don't fill the forms on a web site. No, that would be sily. You use a Java app.
@djsmiley2k if some will come to chrome it's awesome when it's done
12:57 AM
ours is "Ok, your employer reported this income. You have any other income? Good. Done."
We get a paycheck-like detailed form from our employer detailing how much we earned during the year and how much was already discounted by the government.
So we fill a lot of details and depending on some, we might get some money back.
I'll get $120 back in maybe six months... Yay I'm rich.
@ThatBrazilianGuy my government is all about the big datas.
Would a post about this something we need/wanted pinned? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/295285/…
@BenN we bought TIA
@JourneymanGeek It's featured, so it should show up network-wide on the sites soon
1:08 AM
lol. Was thinking chat
Right; people will probably see it on-site anyway
> (...) up to 20 minutes shortly after midnight (...) Users that are affected will see a warning banner.
So no? ;p
I think it's fine.
There's no word yet on whether it affects chat, which is usually very separate from Q&A
I think we're fine
1:09 AM
Prolly not
oh, more for people going "EVERYTHING IS DOWWWWWWN"
Ah, if that looks like it's about to happen, we can pin on/around the actual event
There's a tenuous, very soft whirring noise in my room that's driving me crazy.
It's not out of the window, it's not in the living room, it's not my computer (phew!)
You need to unplug the high-pitched hum generator
@JourneymanGeek Even if you pin it, tell everyone you know, and their dogs - people will still come running and panicking ;)
1:13 AM
@BenN No, it's not a high-pitched hum, it's a low pitched whirring...
@JourneymanGeek I lurk from time to time ;) Life has changed a lot over the years! Figured I'd start hanging out here a bit more again :)
Welcome back :)
Thanks! I've missed this place
Ooh, a new old face! :P
1:15 AM
An old new face, even
If it was a high-pitched hum, and I had a geeky wife, I'd start looking for an annoyatron ;P
> In The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Douglas Adams mentions an extremely dull planet, inhabited by a bunch of depressed humans and a certain breed of animals with sharp teeth which communicate with the humans by biting them very hard in the thighs. This is strikingly similar to UNIX, in which the kernel communicates with processes by sending paralyzing or deadly signals to them. Processes may intercept some of the signals, and try to adapt to the situation, but most of them don't.
1:27 AM
@Bob there's a reasonable chance @SimonSheehan might have been here before I was ;p
not quite ;) there has always been a dog loose in the chat since I got here. It's nice to see some of the same faces 5 years later!
Just got out of work.
@bwDraco Oh, did you get that job you're applying to back then?
1:45 AM
No, still doing sports photography.
Oh, I see.
Do you display your photography work anywhere?
@bwDraco Sports is the most fun photography and video by far! I love when I get to do it
I have it.
Come to think of it, I think it's been dormant for the last couple years.
fascinating :P
and yes, "Real Iron" was significantly more powerful, for many years, than commodity "desktops" from IBM and clones
my first ca. 1991 PC had 4 MB of RAM, and the upgrade only had 8, while that server had 16 in 1986... extremely high-end
that server is the 1986 equivalent of a quad Xeon E7 box with 192GB of RAM today
I just watched that yesterday
@allquixotic it was
and made differently
2:32 AM
Here's a question. If many separate data lines could produce a lot of throughput (see: PCI-e and its many lanes, for a modern example), why are so many modern buses not "parallel" anymore? E.g. we moved from Parallel ATA to Serial ATA and it's way faster. SAS is a 1-wire bus. Many other modern connectors are 5 or 10 pins and several are used for low-bandwidth control data, power, or grounding, leaving 1 or 2 true data pins.
RISC (in the form of ARM) might become widespread again in servers in the next few years, but right now, virtually every server has a Xeon processor in it.
Are we so good at high throughput (e.g. high clock rate) transmissions on either side of the line that we just don't (usually) need tons of different lines anymore, except in the case of the extreme high-end of throughput like PCIe?
@allquixotic Because they use packet-based communication. Packets are sent along each lane, and the recipient reconstructs the data.
A: Serial communication vs Parallel Communication

bwDracoParallel communication is subject to clock skew, while serial communication is not. A packet-based communication protocol allows multiple serial channels to operate in parallel without being adversely affected by clock skew. Parallel communication is difficult to implement at very high speeds b...

@allquixotic One word: crosstalk
2:46 AM
@Bob I guess they manage to deal with crosstalk pretty well with PCIe x16 slots, with the pins being in fairly close proximity
that's "16 channels in parallel", but with the added complexity of controller-side data reordering a la TCP ... didn't know that til today :P
Well, now you know :-)
> The bonded serial bus architecture was chosen over the traditional parallel bus due to inherent limitations of the latter, including half-duplex operation, excess signal count, and inherently lower bandwidth due to timing skew. Timing skew results from separate electrical signals within a parallel interface traveling through conductors of different lengths, on potentially different printed circuit board (PCB) layers, and at possibly different signal velocities. Despite being transmitted simultaneously as a single word, signals on a parallel interface have different travel duration and arr
@bwDraco some good bed time reading right there for tonight...
3:02 AM
Clock skew's your #1 problem when you're sending so many bits over a parallel connection. Hence bonded serial links with packetized transmission.
@bwDraco technically arn't most modern x86es risc-like internally?
@JourneymanGeek Yeah. I've been taught that at least some x86 processors resemble MIPS internally. The ISA is an abstraction layer more than anything else.
More or less. Also Randal runs a mac?
@allquixotic PCIe is also shorter distance
I believe DRAM is one of the last high-bandwidth devices to use parallel communication.
3:35 AM
@Bob and VERY carefully controllable trace lengths and seperations
4:18 AM
@allquixotic Dedbox Classic now has 42 in stock :P
4:45 AM
@JourneymanGeek Now I need to figure out what to do with the extra 4m of LEDs :P
(plus the other 5m that's currently being shipped... whoops)
@Bob post em to me
what are they, ws8108 ?
5:04 AM
@djsmiley2k looks like it... 5050 rgb strip with the leds attached in lots of 3
ws2812 I think
wait no
I thought the WS series was serial
so 6 connectors rather than 8
nod, sounds right to me
5:29 AM
yea, these are probably just dumb LEDs
Good morning, could someone help me figure out what just happened? I edited my answer to a question in order to get it accepted. While that was happening (apparently after I submitted the edit?) the question was moved by @JourneymanGeek and now my answer is deleted and I can't restore it because the post is being migrated? Question: superuser.com/questions/1203852/move-general-to-another-channel/…
@Seth you can handle it on the other side. Its off topic here and was migrated to webapps, where its on topic
Q: Move #general to another channel

glauxI've set up a slack organization for a small team. In the beginning we had only a single project we were working on, so we just used the #general channel for the primary communication. Now the team has grown bigger, and we have three separate projects. So the #general channel has been renamed ...

@JourneymanGeek the thing that confuses me is while I was testing one of the rainbox modes the second strip further down the cable took like 0.5-1s longer to respond to colour changes
which implies there's some sort of signalling involved, but idk
So answers for moved questions get deleted? That's the only thing I'm confused about.
@Seth apparently so
5:38 AM
Kind of strange but someone probably thought more about this than me. ^^
I'm poking around on meta for the reasoning
@Bob it's serial...
oh wait
the actual cable?
ok that's a bit odd :/
it's no different from having another led...
5:57 AM
I'm pretty sure its not serial
@djsmiley2k I have two 0.5m strips linked with a cable
(more like hacked together with literal poE :P)
I didn't think it was serial until that weirdness happened
6:14 AM
@Bob and that's a PWM, not a serial controller ;p
and there's 4 connectors not 3
and... there's literally nothing that smells like a serial/individuallly addressable LED
@JourneymanGeek PWM doesn't explain one strip lagging behind the other...
Serial might, but ....
Nothing I've seen from what showed me looks like serial ._.
I know, it looks like dumb LEDs
6:31 AM
1 hour later…
7:44 AM
I just discovered you can get all your deleted posts visible on sites with deleted:1. I donno how I did not know this before ;p
@JourneymanGeek ...as a mod.
Wait. As a non-mod too.
On SU, I don't really care about my deleted posts that much
on MSE, there's a lot of amusing stuff floating around
Oh, I know you can read your own deleted posts a while
lol, I don't even remember this answer superuser.com/questions/439773/…
being able to find it is handy
7:49 AM
oh god even the non-regex one I did the other answer for is pretty poor
oh lol I remember this one superuser.com/questions/414673/…
10k stuff
hm... I'm not entirely sure why this one was deleted actually superuser.com/questions/856806/…
@Burgi I think that works under 10k too
@Bob whole question seems to be
@JourneymanGeek Yea. Not entirely sure why.
It looks on-topic...
@Bob beats me
its not a very well written question tho
tho the fact the user's deleted seems fishy
That was about 4 years ago. Transient bug ;p
8:04 AM
@JourneymanGeek is this your pre-ascension to dog godhood?
@Burgi Regular user then, yup
No mod menu, and its the older 10K queue
oh, and chat right up on top where it belongs
8:44 AM
Lol. We did a few of those.
9:28 AM
@Seth @Seth @JourneymanGeek That's weird. This question was migrated yesterday and my answer went with it ... webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/105628/…
@DavidPostill that's how it works
the answer on SU gets deleted, the answer goes with the question to webapps
@JourneymanGeek Ah. I misunderstood @seth's complaint. I thought he meant the answer never made it to the other side.
What confused me is I didn't realise the answers on our side gets deleted
@JourneymanGeek I suspect that needs 10K
I can throw you a properly lulzy meta question then
9:39 AM
Hey, I have created a virtual machine out of my physical WIndows 10 machine and am trying to set it up under Ubuntu using VMWare but I am not able to install the proper VMWare tools and the keyboard input is not recognised at all from the gues Windows machine.
I have just a few minutes ago tried downloading the latest VMWare build from the official site and still it does not make a difference
The "Install VMWare Tools" option under the Virtual Machine menu is greyed out as well
My host machine is running on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS
Can someone here help me out with this?
@shyam chat isn't really the place for questions like this
You should go post a question on the main site in detail.
Should I post a question then?
I'll do that
Thank you :)
@shyam that said, making a VM out of a phsyical machine might be tricky licencewise. Which has nothing to do with your issues
Jup, that the answer on SU was deleted and shows up as a deleted question for me (as if I had deleted it myself) was what really confused me about the move. Especially since my update of the answer and the move occurred within the same minute.
@Seth terrible timing, but how was I to know you were editing ;p
I'd have given you the extra minute or so then kicked it over
9:54 AM
The edit actually went through. My first reaction was "did someone just now really delete my answer and moved the question afterwards?". Always assume the worst! But I did learn something new about how stuff is handled so everything is fluffy. :D
oh crap
I NEARLY accidentally deleted my only login method
@JourneymanGeek ^
Well I deleted my legacy SE login testing something, and that deleted my google login. My last login was LJ, and I deleted my LJ account a few weeks ago....
LJ as in Live Journal? That still exists? That feels like internet stone age.
sorry ... typing isn't my strong part.. Anyway set it to strobe and have a party!
@Seth it kinda did
but they basically pissed me off with their new TOS, and I haven't used my account in years so I nuked it
Well it isn't really even a TOS. I got asked to accept a TOS "that wasn't legally binding" but said the russian one was, and referred to a russian law...
I'm not accepting a TOS I CANNOT READ
10:03 AM
Biggest software myth? "I read the EULA" while installing software. Best installer I had was one that mentioned you just read X pages in 4 seconds so you must be a really, really fast reader. But yes, I get what you mean.
@Seth I usually do
Oh, and from what I heard, the law in question is against folks who're LGBT
and I count quite a few of those as my friends.
So, meh.
@JourneymanGeek That is the funny part, I had zero problems so far with the licensing bits. Everything seems to work with the help of the on-screen keyboard
Don't know when they'll start bringing up the infamous Activate Windows popup though
ah then, definately a question for the main site.
Yeah, that's what concerns me, but different problem ;p
Yeha pretty meh but there's still so much talk about that stuff at all is just astonishing.
10:07 AM
@Seth more that ... I don't see a point in propping up their user numbers and its an account that's clearly meaningless since a good chunk of the people I know there left anyway
I've started to read those TOS and EULAs as well but still its pretty alien if you tell someone you do. Back when I was younger I wouldn't have been able to make any sense of what's written in them. By now I still can't make any sense of some of the stuff but at least most of it.
I miss school for a day, and every damn thing goes to hell
I have a slight law background
from management and cyber forensics majors
so I often know what the hell they're on about, even if it still bored me to death.
@Rahul2001 Sounds like the usual. You decide to just be a bit late to one lecture ... and it's time for information about the stuff you need to write this semester.
Sounds like a fun background, at least the second part. But yes, it's nice to have idea what they're on about. Especially if you have a choice.
10:11 AM
@Seth Heh, that's nothing. Today for some reason my friends went and showed a crappily-made movie to the director. The director got pissed, kicked 5 of the best people out of the computer club, shut two social campaigns down.
Social campaigns etc. are unusual at schools here and usually have high prestige and are lead by some kind of visionary teacher. So that would be unlikely around here.
@Seth Heh, our director is half mad. Totally batshit crazy.
Sometime slapping over TCP/IP would really be a great feature.
Q: Performance of for-each loop

Abhijeet AshriI have 2 scenarios of a Java code. A simple for-each looping over like 1000 records. A nested for-each loop, where the outer loop loops over 1000 records and the inner... Well let's say it varies (sometimes it has no record or has like 4-5 records). How could the performance be increased ? E...

@JourneymanGeek uh. can you read French? cause you have an Online server... :P
tres tres tres un peux. ma francaise is malodour....
(I can read a little french. At least its a latin script, and online.net have have a english TOS
10:24 AM
@Seth Closed. Off-topic :)
TY. That edit he made was so~ helpful.
@JourneymanGeek the French one is canonical :P
@Seth :)
10:41 AM
Are you the @Seth from the Iguana forums?
I might or might not be ... well no idea what Iguana forums you're talking about. So probably not. Sorry. :)
@Seth, are you the war lizard from the war lizard gaming forums?
@jokerdino ಠ_ಠ
Nope. It's unlikely that we've encountered each other before as it has been some time since I was active on a classic BB and I didn't know about that meme until seconds ago. Though I do frequent reddit.
wasn't seth the baddie in command and conquer?
10:50 AM
Seth is a moderator in Ask Ubuntu.
The name might also refer to (in no particular order): A character from a that angel movie I always forget the name of, a ghoul in the Fallout universe, a reference to an Egyptian god, a biblical figure, a character from "From Dusk till Dawn", a municipality in Germany. In C&C there indeed was a NOD member by that name (after as they had Kain that's no surprise).
what kind of angle?
do you mean "angel"?
I wonder if I will ever get rid of that typo. Yes, angel. The movie I meant is City of Angels.
11:03 AM
prolly never
@Seth What typo? ;p
It was acute typo.
I guess it happens because "Angel" in German would be "Fishing Pole" and it just kind of feels wrong to write that if you're talking about divine beings. Math just feels so much more divine! (Bad excuse)
@jokerdino are you sure we arn't just being obtuse?
@JourneymanGeek cc @jokerdino No, cos he's just going off at a tangent.
11:14 AM
I don't commit such a sin.
flagged for punning
plagged for funning
@Burgi You don't seem like the kind to strike a chord quickly.
i don't get that one
@jokerdino I really don't see the point of that
@Burgi a chord == accord?
11:22 AM
as in music?
@Burgi Did you fail maths in school? ;p
A chord of a circle is a straight line segment whose endpoints both lie on the circle. A secant line, or just secant, is the infinite line extension of a chord. More generally, a chord is a line segment joining two points on any curve, for instance an ellipse. A chord that passes through a circle's center point is the circle's diameter. Every diameter is a chord, but not every chord is a diameter. The word chord is from the Latin chorda meaning bowstring. == Chords of a circle == Among properties of chords of a circle are the following: Chords are equidistant from the center if and only if their...
@DavidPostill heh. I don't remember that one
Granted math is hard. Lets chase squirrels.
@DavidPostill we didn't cover that in GCSE maths
@Burgi There you go then. It was covered in O level maths ;p
11:40 AM
oh snap
there's a chance chat may be affected by the test-failure
Chat is a good question, we'll discuss. Docs, Jobs, Story: yes, readonly - they're all in the Stack Overflow and Careers databases. — Nick Craver ♦ 1 hour ago
when is the test happening?
why don't they do it on monday instead?
its a national holiday across most of the western world
@Burgi Because all the devops are on holiday?
this might be an excuse to get an IRC server up for a bit ;)
@DavidPostill rubbish! ;)
This question has a spam answer: superuser.com/questions/611507/…
infernet is horrible otherwise i would have linked to the answer
(signal quality)
11:57 AM
@Ramhound not any more.
This: http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_xa-7950.php
And this: http://www.gsmarena.com/sony_xperia_x-7948.php
12:23 PM
@bwDraco s/billions/4 billion/, s/Firefox/Chrome, s/Gecko/Blink/, s/Flash/HTML5 Video/, s/dozens of/60/ :P
@allquixotic so essentially everything?
@JourneymanGeek yep
12:38 PM
Well, Firefox is essentially a niche browser these days.
lol. That's a bit of a sweeping statement.
Bob wouldn't like that :P
lol I forgot what's niche again.
Bob's reaction to Firefox being marginalized
It has less than 15% usage share, and likely less than 10%.
12:42 PM
Every browser has < 15% except chrome :)
@DavidPostill well. Mobile Safari :D
funny how Safari is noticeably better than the third most popular; all dem iPhones
@allquixotic Not according to statcounter :)
(I guarantee you less than 1% of Safari's share is due to Macs)
because who the hell runs Safari on a Mac when there's Chrome on Mac
@allquixotic The same kind of people who run IE or FF when there is Chrome on Windows? ;p
(all iOS browsers appear as Safari due to the WebKit restriction; see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers)
12:44 PM
@DavidPostill yeah. Dumb people (in the case of IE/Edge, not FF)
I'm glad you ninja'd that :)
@DavidPostill oi
@JourneymanGeek wat?
I run FF ;p
France likes Firefox
so what's that east Asian country that likes IE? ... Japan?
12:47 PM
what's yellow?
@JourneymanGeek Yeah, I was just about to slap @allquixotic, for calling you, @Bob and I dumb :)
UC Browser
that actually almost makes sense
@allquixotic That's 2 years out of date :)
Greenland's a bunch of Mac users
12:48 PM
Mar 16 at 2:17, by bwDraco
Firefox was the last major browser to adopt a multiprocess model.
Mar 3 at 1:44, by bwDraco
@JourneymanGeek The problem is that the most obvious alternative to Chrome, Firefox, is quite poor by today's standards and is really only of interest to power users.
weird how Opera owns most of Africa
that's just weird
@bwDraco Works for me ;p
and I have it set up for my workflow
Sep 17 '16 at 4:36, by bwDraco
This is why people are not using Firefox any more. Not only is it slower than the competition, it's an outright battery hog compared to Edge or even Chrome (which made substantial strides over the last several months).
on a desktop mostly....
(see context)
12:50 PM
meh, I'm not using FF because it takes more effort to search; I'm so used to the pattern of Ctrl+T, start typing, hit enter.... FF (last I checked) makes you CLICK in the field before you can start searching
@allquixotic I wonder if its old phones and opera mobile...
and I prefer google's sync over FF Sync
that would make a ton of sense
@DavidPostill and me :/
Jan 19 at 3:34, by bwDraco
I'm concerned about Firefox performing poorly in battery life tests. They have not improved meaningfully. Edge provides the best battery life; Chrome is a close second with their recent improvements.
12:52 PM
@allquixotic Desktop? No need to click.
Wait, I only have the omni bar.
@allquixotic I have FF setup to have an omnibar
Jan 19 at 3:35, by bwDraco
Given the increasingly mobile user base, Firefox's high CPU usage is going to hurt their market share as Microsoft continues to promote their browser's superior battery life.
and with a layout I probably will have to hack into vivaldi at some point
the fact that an omnibar isn't the default for Firefox still bugs me
@allquixotic because opera used to have turbo which was great, and I guess it just stayed.
12:53 PM
(cause darnit. Why can I not just have one bar with everything on it...)
Look, lots of us like Firefox but this is really getting me concerned.
Who started this browser war?
@jokerdino @allquixotic
31 mins ago, by allquixotic
@bwDraco s/billions/4 billion/, s/Firefox/Chrome, s/Gecko/Blink/, s/Flash/HTML5 Video/, s/dozens of/60/ :P
12:55 PM
@DavidPostill I didn't start the browser war; Netscape and MSFT did
@allquixotic Oh all right then :)
@allquixotic The first web browser was invented in 1990 by Sir Tim Berners-Lee. Berners-Lee is the director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), which oversees the Web's continued development, and is also the founder of the World Wide Web Foundation. His browser was called WorldWideWeb and later renamed Nexus
!! s/viv//
aldi? ;p
12:57 PM
The first commonly available web browser with a graphical user interface was Erwise. The development of Erwise was initiated by Robert Cailliau.

In 1993, browser software was further innovated by Marc Andreessen with the release of Mosaic, "the world's first popular browser",[6] which made the World Wide Web system easy to use and more accessible to the average person.
Netscape came later :)
you can still run mosaic on a modern linux box.
@DavidPostill IIRC IE actually has some mosaic lineage
lineage, yes, but no more code based on it
maybe a few internal API definitions (but not their implementation) at most
And what about Lynx?
As of 2017, it is the oldest web browser currently in general use and development, having started in 1992.
Lynx is practically useless; no JS
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