The h Bar

Anonymous

5:00 AM

I need to go now!

user228700

@blue Right, but I didn't think you'd understood that most people who don't think about Science in their everyday lives who do think critically about other fields have been discouraged to do so by teachers and friends who didn't care.

user228700

And I hope you're able to be open-minded about this rather than deeming everybody who doesn't think about Science as being "lesser" than those who do.

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H Morning. I didn't want to interrupt - it looked like a good argument :-)

user228700

@JohnRennie :-) I think it's over now that blue's gone.

user228700

If you look in the starboard, you'll see that vzn would like for me to do an AMA but I can't think of 5 people who'd be interested in that. vzn himself and blue seem to be interested. What about you? Would you be interested in something like that?

John Rennie

5:12 AM

I would guess tht your main contribution would be a perspective on what it was like for students preparing for the JEE, and that topic is not universally loved by the chat members :-)

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H I don't really buy the fact that a bad teacher can make you dispassionate about a subject. That is a convenient excuse that many people use to hide their laziness. Personally I never ever had any good Science teacher. They were pathetic. That didn't make me lose interest in Science.

user228700

@blue Are you aware of the idea of passion?

Anonymous

Yes.

user228700

Many people aren't passionate about Science.

user228700

We are passionate about Science, which is why we didn't lose interest even though we've had terrible teachers.

Anonymous

5:16 AM

@Kaumudi.H No. I think people who disregard science, as "lesser" than those who do not. Not the people who don't do Science in daily lives.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H You can't be passionate about literature and hate science at the same time. Never seen such a person.

Anonymous

Any famous examples in mind?

user228700

Gosh, not hate!

user228700

You can be passionate about literature and not think about Science as much. I don't know what you mean by "disregard" but from what you've been saying, I feel you think that having a neutral feeling toward it counts exactly as blatant dismissal, which is not how I feel about it.

user228700

@blue Following your line of reasoning, one could say that those not interested in literature also don't have a "great" perception of life and an example for this would be your friend Yashas.

Anonymous

5:20 AM

@Kaumudi.H Not thinking about Science when you don't need to is okay. But not thinking about it even though you have it in your course and you are studying it, is not okay. That indicates your lack of passion for literature too.

user228700

@blue Course? Oh geez, have we been speaking of students in high school?!

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Nope. Perception can be garnered from various aspects of life even if you don't study science or literature. But when you have to study science and literature, then not thinking about them and mugging up shows that you don't have a great perception.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Do only high schoolers have to study science/literature?

user228700

Ah, I see that you have been speaking of those who have Science in their course, not of those who are no longer students!

Anonymous

Yes. Sorta. Isn't that what we were talking about?

user228700

5:24 AM

No; that part wasn't clear to me. I thought you were speaking about the general public, which includes quite a lot of "non-students".

Anonymous

We began with students mugging up formulae the day before exam :-P

user228700

@blue I understand what you're trying to say; I don't believe all this about perceptions and whatnot but I agree those who think critically about literature will at least try to do the same for Science. However, I stand by my original point, which is that they might be discouraged to do so and will give up simply because they don't care.

user228700

Now you seem to think that this makes them lesser and having that opinion has nothing to do with what we've been discussing so far.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H I don't know what you mean by "discouraged"

Anonymous

Are they beaten up if they study science ?

user228700

5:28 AM

No. Most of these people don't have an inherent affinity for Science so they find it harder to learn than subjects that they're truly passionate about.

Anonymous

I really wonder if people are born with an affinity towards a subject(s).

user228700

I have seen that the pretentiousness of teachers & friends has made many of my friends to feel humiliated, which has lead to them giving up on the subject.

user228700

@blue That's another debate altogether but I'm laboring under the assumption that yes, some people are inclined toward some subjects more than others.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H I disgree with that. I don't agree that a teacher/friend can make you give up on a subject.

user228700

@blue Perhaps you haven't experienced this yourself.

user228700

5:33 AM

I've understood all the points you're making and have decided that I'm not going to be able to change your opinion about this simply because you haven't met the sort of people I have.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Maybe. I had terrible teachers all along upto high school though.

user228700

But I urge you to please be more open-minded; it would seem, from everything you've told me so far, that you hold extremely prejudiced thoughts on all this.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Same to you :-)

Anonymous

Each side thinks that they are more open minded

user228700

That's arguable.

user228700

5:38 AM

I, for one, don't believe that some people are lesser than others simply because of the way that they think.

user228700

...and believing that is a way of being narrow-minded (af). In any case, I urge you to read this if you wish, to challenge your opinion about the same.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H By lesser I mean, I don't find them interesting people or people who can huge contributions to the world. They simply lack the attitude.

user228700

Right.

Anonymous

@Kaumudi.H Too long. Will read later.

user228700

@blue I used to think along the same lines but I have grown out of that because of the experiences I have had and I can assure you that the quality of my life has greatly improved because of the same.

user228700

5:42 AM

And that reddit thread has been a valuable resource.

Anonymous

Okay, I will read it.

Anonymous

Gimme a day or two

user228700

Anyhoo, I've enjoyed having this debate :-)

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H it's got to be better than revision :-)

user228700

It's almost noon and I haven't even had breakfast yet so I'm off!

user228700

5:44 AM

@JohnRennie -_- When did u turn into my mum?

John Rennie

It's a privilege all old people have :-)

user228700

Ah, so you're old! :-P

DanielSank

@Kaumudi.H How do you separate how someone thinks from how they act? It's an interesting question, I think.

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H Some mornings it feels that way!

DanielSank

@blue How can you possibly know how other people are affected by e.g. teachers?

user228700

5:46 AM

@DanielSank Indeed, it is, but dude, I'm starving and have lots of revision to do so I hope we can get back to this after my exams! :-P

user228700

@JohnRennie :-)

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H You run along and get some lunch now young Kaumudi, and be sure to wear a pullover if it's cold.

user228700

@JohnRennie Are you trying to get me to call you "grandpa"? x'D

John Rennie

:-)

I'm now at my Mum's house and there's food everywhere!

How am I going to resist eating myself to death?!

Anonymous

6:10 AM

@DanielSank Do you have any evidence of students giving up simply as they had bad teachers? I don't have. In most of such cases I found that the students themselves were lazy in other aspects of life too and used that as an excuse . (Completely my experience...)

user228700

6:53 AM

@JohnRennie Don't do any resisting, then :-)

user228700

@JohnRennie Why is there so much food?! Did she make lots of stuff anticipating your arrival?

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H The problem is that I like my weight to be around 55kg. At that weight I feel most energetic, and all my trousers fit! But if I spend a week at my Mum's eating everything in sight then I'll add several kg by the time I get home.

user228700

Ah, OK :-) Why don't u do some additional exercise to balance it out, then?

John Rennie

Then I've got to spend month eting healthily (ugh! :-) to shed the extra weight. I find it's better to exercise a but of restraint and not put on the weight in the first place.

It's harder to lose weight with exercise than most people think. Unless you go in for long distance running exercise doesn't burn that many calories.

user228700

@JohnRennie That's true. And u also don't have ur cycle with you, I presume...

user228700

6:57 AM

Hmm, then yes, the best way would be to do as much resisting as possible! :-)

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H She's my Mum! She's spent the last 56 years (and counting) convinced that I'm not eating properly :-)

user228700

@JohnRennie :-)

Balarka Sen

@0celouvsky Sure that's it.

John Rennie

@Kaumudi.H I've thought about buying a cheap bicycle to keep at my Mum's house, but there's nowhere to keep it.

user228700

@JohnRennie No attic or basement?

John Rennie

7:00 AM

No basement. There is an attic, but you need to go up a ladder to reach it and carrying a bicycle up the ladder is a non-starter.

I keep my bicycle in the garage, but my Mum's house doesn't have a garage.

user228700

Oh, that's a bummer :-/ Can u keep it somewhere in your room or something? Hang it on a wall, perhaps!

John Rennie

No. I have looked into it but it's a non-starter.

user228700

Damn :-/

John Rennie

But that's OK. It just means I have to eat normally, even though that's hard :-)

Did you think any more about your cycle ride up the coast?

user228700

:-) Yes, I guess.

user228700

7:04 AM

@JohnRennie Oh yes, I did! I even spoke to my father about it.

user228700

My mother was convinced that I wouldn't be able to make it, that she'd never allow it, etc.

user228700

But my father told me that it could be a fun trip but that I'd have to make it a two/three-day journey and rest at hotels on the way, which is to say that omg he'd allow me to do that! :-o

John Rennie

I'm with your Dad on this one. Unless you're a cycling fiend I suspect you'll find it harder than you think.

user228700

Yes, but I'm willing to stop at hotels as long as my dad allows me to!

user228700

But he advised me not to do it on my own, since several parts of the journey are on a mostly isolated high-way adjacent to the beach.

John Rennie

7:07 AM

Maybe when everyone is back from college for the summer you could see if anyone else is interested in going.

Given what I've read recently I think I would be a bit concerned if my daughter attempted the trip on her own ...

user228700

@JohnRennie I...don't have very many friends. Having "broken up" with my best friend leaves me with only one other person who might be interested to make that journey with me but her parents wouldn't allow it in her wildest dreams.

John Rennie

Put it on the back burner for now then.

user228700

I have no other choice, yes :-( But my dad did suggest something else!

John Rennie

When I was your age I had a crazy plan to canoe across the Aegean Sea, but I never found anyone mad enough to come with me.

user228700

Were u eventually able to find someone who was? :-P

John Rennie

7:12 AM

No. Anyway it would probably be unwise. I got as far as consulting the appropriate navigational charts and there are some dangerous currents in the Aegean. Doing it in a canoe would be physically very taxing.

user228700

Ah, OK...

John Rennie

Shame though :-)

user228700

We have a house BTW, on the outskirts of the city, near all the IT firms; it's a developing neighborhood. It's about 70 Kms from my home and my dad suggested cycling up to there on my own, going for a swim(I love swimming) in the pool there perhaps, resting for a bit and then driving back.

Balarka Sen

You can't just plan to go along on a trip! There are people outside! People are scary.

user228700

The only problem is that the house...is, well, it's an apartment; one among 500 or so and we've rent it out to someone else so I can't go to my house itself :-/

user228700

7:16 AM

@BalarkaSen :-P The people of Chennai are OK

Balarka Sen

People are ok nowhere

John Rennie

@BalarkaSen K's Dad will have a pretty good idea what the risks in Chennai are.

user228700

Oi, I too have a pretty good idea of that!

John Rennie

@BalarkaSen To a degree you're not safe anywhere. It's a matter of deciding what risks are small enough to be neglected.

user228700

I have lived in this city for 17 years and 10 months!

user228700

7:21 AM

And he for close to 20 years.

John Rennie

Speaking as an ex-18 year old, I don't think my judgement was that great when I was 18. This doesn't necessarily mean that all 18 year olds tend to unerestimate risk of course :-)

user228700

Hmph.

John Rennie

My niece gives me the stare of death on these occasions. Fortunately that doesn't work through the Internet.

Balarka Sen

@JohnRennie Sure, I wasn't really showing any constructive concern about actually scary people. I was just making a silly misanthropic comment.

user228700

I understand your point though; it's literally true that the judgement of teenagers (but this applies to 15 and 16 y.os!) is terrible compared to "adults" whose brains have developed further in this regard.

Balarka Sen

7:25 AM

"Besides, one afternoon I did step into the street; If I returned before night, I did so because of the fear that the faces of the common people inspired in me, faces as discolored and flat as the palm of one's hand. The sun had already set, but the helpless crying of a child and the rude supplications of the faithful told me I had been recognized."

[Borges, "House of Asterion"]

DanielSank

7:49 AM

@blue I mostly gave up on solid state physics because my Prof was bad.

Anonymous

@DanielSank Do you hate solid state physics or think it is useless compared to other fields of physics that you've learnt? I suppose not. It is natural to choose to study a different subject because a better professor teaches it. But suppose it was compulsory to study solid state physics and you neglected studying it giving "my teacher is bad" as a reason, that would just show your laziness.

Anonymous

In short, schools and colleges teaches one what to study. "How to study?" That can be learnt only by oneself. And if a person knows how to study/read literature properly, they will sooner or later figure out a way how to study other subjects, like science too (even if they have a terrible teacher).

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