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12:04 AM
@0celouvsky ok, I will try to make the thoughts more precise. Give me a week
 
@Cows why don't you read some analysis
take things slow
I don't think you're prepared for the things you're talking about
 
ok
 
not that analysis would help you with that
but you're talking about poincare duality I think
I'm not sure you understand the details there
(maybe you do)
 
hehe neh I don't understand the details myself lol
I just ran across it today
I am definitely going to have to invest some time in analysis
before anything
 
12:34 AM
hey
 
@Slereah up early?
 
again
Basically I am an undead ghoul by now
 
Current photo of me
 
12:38 AM
@Slereah I recommend you get facial surgery
 
I don't think you can do surgery on a skull
 
Ah, then I recommend face tissue implants
 
1:08 AM
@BernardoMeurer Kendrick has a U2 feature on his new album...
Probably going to be overly political garbage
 
Don't asteroids, comets, meteors, planets, stars and galaxies sometimes move towards the earth?
And if when they do, yet're still producing redshifts (light is coming from sources moving away from the earth) as opposed to blue (from sources moving towards), than doesn't that mean this whole redshift thing is bogus?
how do I answer it?
 
what
 
Hi, everybody.
Who wants to play "Understand the datasheet"?
 
I flagged for mods
 
It is in VLQ queue
 
1:37 AM
1
Q: Integrating without tricks

ShanenThe integral is $\int\frac{\sqrt x -1}{\sqrt x}$. I have asked the opposite question on this site where the denominator would be the numerator and the numerator would be the denominator. I understand how that would work using ln. Is this similar to that. I am trying to do this without using any ...

lol
 
very hard integral
@Slereah what is $\pi_1(\Bbb R^2-\text{two points})$?
the answer is tricky
 
Hm
I'm guessing there's curves around one point
Curves around the other point
Curves around both point, but those can have arbitrary amounts of crossing
not sure how to write it
 
@Slereah so you have the curve $a$ going around one hole
and the curve $b$ going around the other?
those both generate $\Bbb Z$ but you can also mix them
 
yeah
 
like you could have $abab$
or $a^2b$
 
1:45 AM
and I'm guessing that a curve going around both points isn't equivalent to a figure 8 going around both points
Maybe just $\Bbb Z \times \Bbb Z$?
I dunno
 
@Slereah Actually it is...pinch it down between the two points
you get a figure 8
the group is called the "free product" of $\Bbb Z$ with itself, denoted $\Bbb Z*\Bbb Z$
 
what is the free product
 
or: the free group on two generators
@Slereah it's a formal product where elements are like $ab^2ab$
words in $a$ and $b$
and $a$ and $b$ do not commute
it's a yuge group
 
a @yuggib group?
 
yuger
he's not that fat
 
1:58 AM
is there an example of a manifold that isn't made by one of the basic manifolds and simple procedures
A manifold that isn't $\Bbb R^n$, $S^n$, isn't a cartesian product or connected sum of other manifolds, isn't made by removing closed sets or identifications
 
2:12 AM
@Slereah E8
It's so fucked up no one knows what it is
 
I'd ask for a proof but I would probably regret it if there was one
 
All of the higher dimensional Lie groups are pretty mysterious
I don't know what $\mathrm{GL}(2,\Bbb R)$ is
 
Well it's 4D
I doubt it can be that weird
 
@Slereah It is known that the 4-manifolds cannot be classified
 
Non-compact, not simply connected, fundamental group $\Bbb Z$
Hm
It's not known, actually
5-manifolds and up can't
3 and under can
4 is not currently known
 
2:17 AM
10
Q: Why "Classification" of 4 manifolds is NOT possible?

user16750I know classification of 2 manifolds and geometrization for 3 manifolds. Why for dimension great or equal to 4, this task become impossible? edit: Or should I ask "why geometrization won't be possible for 4 or higher dimension?"

 
Hm
what I've read before was that but for 5 manifolds
what is this shenanigan
 
2:28 AM
@Slereah Hörmander Vol. 1 has rigorous $i\epsilon$ stuff
 
Hm, let's see
do I have charamander
"An introduction to complex analysis in several variables"?
 
no.
the analysis of linear partial differential ops
 
which part is it
hey there's a bit on the wavefront set
That's a modern book
 
it's 1983
fairly modern
quite an amazing book tbh
I need to read it
 
how many books do you have to read, currently
 
2:34 AM
Well, currently reading Bleecker and Booss
Then there's Grubb, Chavel, Hörmander (three volumes), Gilkey
Those are the books I need to read immediately
I would like to read Besse, Li, Lieb & Loss
Chow, Lu, & Ni
These ergodic theory books can wait until next semester when I take the class
Also Choquet-Bruhat
@Slereah sound right?
 
Sounds like a fair bit
 
@Slereah I would also like to learn some cosmology
@Slereah Oh and Kosinski because my long term goal is to understand the Poincare conjecture
 
Cosmology sounds like a thing where you need a lot of experimental stuff
 
@Slereah I was planning on reading Weinberg's cosmo book
 
Is there a proof that the copernician principle makes sense
 
2:45 AM
which one is that?
 
If the stress energy tensor is homogeneous on large scales, does it imp'y the metric is
 
clearly not
Schwarzschild
> 0.455 kJ
Why not just 455J?
 
Well schw. Is asymptotically flat
Good enough
But they never seem to really motivate FRW that well
 
why not?
you just want it to be isotropic
 
Yeah but
Proof?
 
2:49 AM
what they don't motivate is why $\pi_1(\Sigma)=1$
they implicitly assume it
 
They don't assume the topology
 
uh, yeah they do
 
$T^3$ is a valid cosmology
But y'know
Obviously the universe isn't homogeneous
So what is the proof that we can approximate the metric so
 
@BernardoMeurer She wants me to pay for the ticket with labor
@Slereah the fact that it seems to work
 
Plz
 
2:55 AM
what?
 
How does one even write the statement that it is homogeneous on large scales
for a sufficiently large ball of diameter $r$, $$\int_{B^1_r} T dx = \int_{B^2_r} T dx + \mathcal O(r^{-1})$$
maybe?
 
@Slereah The isometry group is transitive on spatial slices
 
or something
but it's obviously not
 
well...it's approximately so
 
yeah, but there is math to deal with approximation
 
2:58 AM
there is or is there?
 
I vaguely recall something discussing this in a book, but I forget which
 
3:11 AM
You know who wrote about that topic?
 
duffield?
 
My previous GR friend, Bela Valek
 
previous GR friend?
 
(he too wrote a book)
I have no idea where he found that bit of trivia though
 
3:26 AM
if u want the book
though beware
he was kind of your opposite
All about coordinates
and explicit calculations
 
who??
what is this?
 
Are you getting jealous that I had another GR friend
 
No
he uses $\gamma$ for $G$
 
also he writes products explicitely
slightly odd
 
do you think I am a better friend?
 
3:30 AM
Well you're not talking about catholicism all the time
That's a pretty big bonus
 
...what?
 
He was pretty big into catholicism
He grew up in the soviet union so he seems to have gone way into catholicism as a reaction
Well, not soviet union proper, just Hungary
0
Q: Does the average homogeneity of the universe imply the average validity of the FRW metric

SlereahOne of the big assumption of cosmology is the isotropic and homogeneous character of the matter distribution in the universe (since homogeneity implies isotropy I'll concentrate on the latter). Obviously this assumption is wrong, as any local experiment can determine. This only works on the assu...

plz halp
 
I'm trying to understand relative homology
can't help
 
Cosmology was a lie all along
 
it's physics
what physics is correct?
mechanics of a single particle
 
3:39 AM
electromagnetism
 
@Slereah I doubt people take into account self-interactions to the fullest extent
 
it's doable, though
I mean the full treatment came out like in 2008
but it's possible
 
@BalarkaSen What the heck does a preferred generator of $H^n(M,M-\{p\})$ have to do with Jacobians and stuff
@Slereah The metric, being Lorentzian, does not give a notion of radius.
 
@0celouvsky I'm talking about the spacelike hypersurface
Global hyperbolicity all the way baby
 
> An exercise
or its solution may be needed for later exercises but not for the main text.
good guy Dold
 
3:47 AM
I don't think HE even has exercizes
that's why it's great
 
jesus christ, $$\bigcup_{p\in M}H^n(M,M-\{p\})$$
orientation sheaf
I'm done
I hate manifolds
 
@0celouvsky It's a choice of an orientation at $p$.
 
@BalarkaSen No shit, but why
 
Think of a generator of that as coming from the singular chain given by a map $\Delta^n \to M$ which sends the origin (a marked point inside the simplex) to $p$.
The two generators are the orientation-preserving and reversing maps from the simplex.
 
yeah, but why relative homology?
 
3:52 AM
'Cause that's where such a chain lives?
$(M, M - p)$ means you don't care about anything which goes outside $p$.
The boundary of the simplex lives in $M - p$.
 
yeah but it would make sense that you have to orient "the area around $p$" as well
how does one talk about a consistent orientation in an open set with these homology groups?
 
Good question. If $B$ is a ball in a chart containing $p, q$ then there are isomorphisms $H_n(M, M - B) \to H_n(M, M - p)$ and $H_n(M, M - B) \to H_n(M, M - q)$.
If you want consistent orientation for all pairs $p, q$ in $B$, you just require the choice of generator remains the same under those maps.
(Choice of generator means choice of $\pm 1$ under a fixed isomorphism to $\Bbb Z$)
 
does hatcher talk about this?
 
Ya. Chapter 3.3
 
good to know
on the list of things to learn
@BalarkaSen do you know this notion of a difference of bundles from K-theory?
 
3:59 AM
Vaguely. I have forgotten what that is.
Direct sum of E with orthogonal complement of F?
 
@BalarkaSen One mirrors the construction of $\Bbb Z$ from $\Bbb N$ but instead with $\mathrm{Vect}(X)$ and $\oplus$
 
Oh, Grothendieck completion. I remember several distinct notions of K-theory; one with that, another upto stable isomorphism, etc
Not sure how stuff are related.
 
I was just wondering if you have a feeling for what it's spposed to be
I still don't understand negative numbers so I don't hope to understand negative bundles :P
 
It's a formal construction... vector bundles (of non-specified rank) form a monoid under direct sum.
So you just formally add inverses.
I think the geometric meaning is in what I said. Upto stable isomorphism, the vector bundles over a fixed base does form a group.
 
Stable iso?
 
4:10 AM
$E, F$ are stably isomorphic if $E \oplus \Bbb R^k \cong F \oplus \Bbb R^k$.
 
I see
I have two exams tomorrow so I'd better head to bed
cheerio
 
gonna have to watch that movie
@0celouvsky Bye.
 
 
2 hours later…
6:11 AM
@Kaumudi.H: I read the FBAWTFT screenplay. Good fun, but the trouble with films is that they're basically just a short story. They don't have the depth of a novel. I'm about to jump into my car and drive 200 miles, so I won't be around until later today.
 
user228700
6:23 AM
@JohnRennie You finished it! :-o Yes, that's true but yes, very good fun :-) Oh, you're gone but I hope you have a nice drive!
 
8:17 AM
although I kind of like this question and this kid, but this question seems to me opinion-based
3
Q: The importance of the Feynman Path Integral

TreFoxFor our middle school "Final Exhibition Paper" we had to choose a historical figure from a list to write a paper on, and I chose Richard Feynman. One of the requirements of the paper is to describe his major achievements in detail, which means describing the Feynman Path Integral. In the last fe...

 
 
2 hours later…
10:03 AM
I don't think so
There's a subjective aspect, but there are surely physical insights about why the path integral is so celebrated
 
Well, it's a bit of an odd question, but not subjective. I mean, if the path integral didn't encode the full quantum theory then we wouldn't use it. So, in the end, I think the question isn't really asking for some metaphysical "why the path integral", but more for a argument (I dare not say "proof") that the path integral acfually does contain all that information
 
Why don't you dare say proof?
 
Because a proof would require a rigorous definition of the path integral to begin with. I guess you could give one for the ordinary QM case (and it's probably in Glimm/Jaffe), where it is well-defined via the Wiener measure.
 
heheheh
wiener
 
Ah ok, yes, in QM I think it's proven
 
10:13 AM
Eeeeeh
it's proven for some class of potentials
 
Oh right, I didn't realize that.
 
@innisfree I wouldn't be surprised if there are situations where you can't obtain "all" information from the path integral. I'm not sure I've seen a QM path integral that includes spin degrees of freedom, for instance
 
I think it's in what's his name
the brick book
 
You wouldn't be surprised!? That'd be shocking, wouldn't it, if e.g., the Schrodinger equation were more fundamental than the path integral.
 
Kleinert
 
10:34 AM
@innisfree It would be...interesting :)
 
Physical Review, vol. 176, n°5
"A path integral for spin" by Lawrence Schulman
 
@ACuriousMind remember this?
Dec 9 '16 at 16:25, by Emilio Pisanty
$$\mathbf r = \sqrt{\frac{4\pi}{3}} r \sum_{q=-1}^{1} Y_{1q}(\hat{\mathbf r}) \hat{\mathbf e}_q^*$$
I now find myself in need of that reference again, cannot remember where I got it, and I managed to not put it on the record last go-round
 
Ah, yes, I remember me not knowing anything about that ;)
@EmilioPisanty That's...unfortunate
 
apparently the basic idea is that you do some path integrals on $SO(3)$ or something
 
 
1 hour later…
11:55 AM
@ACuriousMind it's possible.
It's in Shankar, but I don't remember any more than that
 
0
Q: How many up and down votes can result in this score? (18)

HelenToday I posted an answer, which I see having a reputation of 18 so far. Also, I see that it has +1 votes. What combination of votes can result in these numbers? (For example, I imagine that two up and two down would give a reputation of 18 but zero votes. Three up and two down would give +1 vot...

 
12:18 PM
@physicsmeta why is this important?
 
12:47 PM
if you have scenario A)a flat square or flat circular object, and it moves in a straight line, towardss an object e.g. a ball. vs B)A flat square or flat circular object, moves in a straight line towards an object e.g. a ball (so same so far), but also, the flat object is spinning in the Y axis too, and the centre of the spinning flat object hits the ball. So the ball still goes straight. Will the ball go faster or slower or same speed, in A, or B?
 
user228700
@JohnR: Eyy, you're back! Good drive? Oh no, you're gone ._.
 
also is my question ok for the main site, or better on the main site? Note I don't have a background in physics beyond a bit of high school.
 
1:04 PM
Given state $| \psi \rangle = | \uparrow \rangle$ which spin eignstate of spin operator $\hat{S}_z = \frac{\hbar}{2} \hat{\sigma}_{z}$ viewed in the Bloch sphere, if you want to rotate the state by $\frac{\pi}{2}$ around the $x$ axis, as I understand you apply operator $\hat{U} = e^{-\frac{\pi}{2}\hat{\sigma}_x}$, would you obtain $$\hat{U}| \uparrow \rangle = e^{-\frac{\pi}{2}\hat{\sigma}_x}| \uparrow \rangle = \frac{1}{\sqrt{2}}| \uparrow \rangle + \frac{i}{\sqrt{2}}| \downarrow \rangle?$$
 
@JohnDoe your notation didn't come out right?
i'll ask on the main site
 
@barlop What do you mean? You can't see the tex properly?
 
Jim
it looks like fine notation to me
@JohnDoe I'm a tad rusty on this; it's been a few years. But shouldn't a $\frac{\pi}{2}$ rotation around the $x$ axis result in $\frac{1}{\sqrt2}(|\uparrow\rangle+|\downarrow\rangle)$?
at least, if $|\uparrow\rangle$ is an eigenstate of the z-spin operator
 
@Jim Yeah it is but the way I'm seeing it is that it a rotation around the x axis by $\frac{\pi}{2}$ results in the state lying along the y axis.
 
Jim
@JohnDoe right. That makes perfect sense. But to me, a state aligned with $y$ would be one in which all knowledge of $z$ is lost. To me that means equally up and down, not sure whether the $i$ would interfere with that. Like I said, I'm a bit rusty
and let's face it, there's cylindrical symmetry here. A rotation around $x$ should make a $z$ eigenstate act the same under $\hat S_z$ as a $y$ rotation
 
1:20 PM
@Jim Yeah I see your point but I think the important point is that the modulus squared still gives $\frac{1}{2}$ up and $\frac{1}{2}$ down and that the state is distinguished from the $x$ spin eigenstate this way.
 
Jim
I'm pretty sure I just need to brush up on my Pauli matrices. Otherwise your form looks perfect
 
@Jim Thanks for checking.
 
Sorry to butt in, but,
in Teenage Territory on Stack Overflow Chat, 5 mins ago, by Simply Beautiful Art
@everyone would you guys like to participate in a coding contest to see who can code the largest number on a theoretical computer with infinite resources and a max character limit?
@Fawad fancy seeing you here lol
 
@ACuriousMind hey, hope all is well with you. This time I'm properly writing to you in chat :) let me know if you find the time later to look into this: physics.stackexchange.com/questions/326132/…
 
1:35 PM
@Kenshin you there ?
 
@JohnDoe I see things like pastebin.com/raw/RWpaYVP8
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt boost isn't allowed right? :P
 
@Yashas I'm not sure, what is boost?
 
@barlop i think the prob might be from your side...
 
@SimplyBeautifulArt boost::multiprecision
It is in gmp.hpp IIRC
 
1:38 PM
@Yashas may we continue this chat in my realm? (Check my profile page)
For those interested, please use any of these languages: repl.it/languages
 
1:53 PM
0
Q: mathjax not working for me in chat

barlopI've been in the chat "h-bar" physics stackexchange chat, and somebody wrote $\frac{1}{2}$ and it comes up for me like those literal characters and not as $\frac{1}{2}$ Any idea why / how I can enable mathjax in chat? The guy that posted it said he can see it and thought it might be an iss...

 
@Kenshin I think the site it not working properly
 
2:12 PM
@Slereah are you alive?
 
How do I justify to someone who quotes person X saying "When we hear that term light-year, we need to realize it is not a measure of time but a measure of distance, telling us how far away something is. Distant stars and galaxies might be millions of light-years away, but that doesn't mean that it took millions of years for the light to get here, it just means it is really far away!"
Oh, people giving this link as proof lol
 
amazing
I will read this and debate people
the ultimate troll >:)
they want me to buy a book
no thanks
 
So hard to concentrate on work in a cold weather
 
How can it be cold on a desert island?
 
Sydney is entering winter now
It does not help that while I can work in 38 C fine with jacket on for 1-3 hrs, I got sick very quickly when the temperature drops to around 18 C
 
2:25 PM
18C is just below room temp
get a long sleeve shirt
 
..
now I don't even know what I can reply
 
Wtf
Do they know about Doppler
 
They are looking for variable fuundamental constants?
 
@Jamie They don't even know Newton's law of motion. When I give some meaningful explanation of something, they throw some random bullshit at me and make me unanswerable.
Two days later: "See, the round earth people cannot even answer."
 
stop allowing yourself to get trolled
 
2:29 PM
I feel so helpless
 
failing that, no need to post everything in the chat
 
@0celouvsky I don't think they are trolling; they make youtube videos of 1 hour length with random stuff.
Why would a troller spend hours making hours of troll videos?
 
My second point stands
@Yashas Boredom
@Yashas Be nice
 
"What if the universe is a paradox and ultimately WE are the ones that caused the big bang which caused everything else to come forth??? " I think that is a troll.
 
There are also other groups in other unis working on this, but so far, the variations are too small to draw good conclusions
Therefore that block of text they threw at you is not bullshit. whether the flat earthers actually understood it is another question
 
2:39 PM
@JohnDoe apparently I should install an extension.. to get the formulae to show in chat.. By the way i've posted my question on teh main site and you're welcome to post any answer or comment
 
Although technically speaking, if they don't understand it, then they are bullshitting since bullshitters don't care about the truth value of whatever they are quoting as long it serves them well
 
I am also fighting with few people who claim all the governments of the world are using chemtrails as chemical bombs to reduce population.
I hope I'm not being trolled.
 
O, the contrail conspiracy camp. I don't have any interest of arguing with them
2
Q: How are beliefs restricted by an objective reality?

SecretConsider the following belief A human can survive if they don't drink water for 1000 days We knew from biology that this is impossible as there are no known records of any living human who can survive for the period stated without water. However, there are also beliefs that are unreal/fals...

The comments in this question taught me that, the world is sufficiently objective enough that should someone held onto a wrong belief too long, they die
this is why I don't need to argue with them, cause if they turned out to be too wrong, the world will kill them automatically
 
@Secret You wrote "We knew from biology that this is impossible as there are no known records of any living human" <-- that is not a logical statement
also food contains water, some food contains more water than others. A most extreme case would be a water melon
 
Hmm, I am not sure how to make that more accurate, cause it is a known result that human can only survive without water for 7 days, I recall
 
2:54 PM
if it's just based on a lack of written records then that's not good evidence
 
Hmm ok, Any suggestion to make a stronger example than that?
 
Well, there's a lack of written record of what time King James went to the toilet on his 20th birthday, if he did at all. That doesn't mean we know it's impossible.
There's a lack of evidence that King James flew to mars, but that's not the only reason why we believe it's extremely unlikely.
Also you should talk in terms of things being likely and unlikely. Not Knowing vs not knowing..
except perhaps in the case of contradictions, for example.. I auppose a belief we know to be false would be that there are married bachelors.
So that's a negative that can be disproven because if it were true it'd be a logical contradiction.
I don't know exactly why biologists would say a human can't survive 1000 days without water.
I have heard that you can't survive 4 days.. but that's just something i've heard from non-experts who might've heard it from experts. But to what extent those experts have tested it is not clear.
Also it's not clear what you mean by "an objective reality"
e.g. do you think we are in an objective reality and what does that mean anyway.
we know you can have contradictions are some things are true and some things aren't true so that's just reality, no need to say "an objective reality".
 
An objective reality is one which does not depends on different perspectives, that is, there are entities that exists and is independent on how they are described, whether via science, religion or other methods
Put it in a simple way, everyone and everything agrees on some properties of said entities, regardless of what (insert word) they have
@barlop (after some googling and google scholaring) I am surprised that there are no journal articles that talk about this topic
 
3:20 PM
I think everybody agrees that reality has objective elements and there's no need to state "objective reality" when you mean reality.. If you mean objective parts of reality that's still ambiguous.. Also by the way, even if in every generation some humans attempted to go without water for 1000 days, and failed , it still wouldn't mean it was impossible. It'd just mean humans hadn't found a way yet.
a biological argument to back it up would make it stronger.. still be wary of saying impossible.. or knowing just based on some records.
 
3:37 PM
Anyway, I have added your married bachelor example in. It, however is not the type of false belief that will kill you when you believe in it. I am not sure if there are any examples of such false beliefs given now we look at the issue of "impossibility of something" very carefully
 
4:12 PM
Hello
 
Hello.
@0celouvsky yes,he did.
 
4:29 PM
@Fawad aww
what did you do?
 
4:45 PM
whoa, is this physics or philosophy?
 
The h bar is a superposition of many topics. Depending on what time you measure the h bar wavefunction, you will get different topic eigenstates
 

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