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12:00 AM
clumsy answer @Mithrandir but at least I hope it explains while your question feels awkward
Q: When is Journey to the River Sea set?

Rand al'ThorEva Ibbotson's Journey to the River Sea is a novel set mainly in the Amazon region of Brazil. It's clearly set quite some time before its publication date of 2001, what with a "governess" being a major character; but it must also be set after the 1880s, given the existence of Little Lord Fauntler...

@VicAche Mithrandir or Emrakul?
getting random at this time of the day
No, I'm the random one.
Random as in you just ask for random dates from random books :P?
1 hour later…
1:29 AM
Q: Please include precise citations in your posts

ShokhetIf you quote or paraphrase a work of literature or other in a post here, please include a precise citation that allows others to find the passage in situ. I've noticed many posts on this site that have not done that, and it's starting to annoy me. Questions probably benefit from citations more t...

@Randal'Thor, are you planning on accepting literature.stackexchange.com/a/2148/481? ...I think @VicAche nailed it.
2:13 AM
would a self-answer documenting the meaning of "head full of zombie" be okay?
It's available on wikipedia, but the citations aren't great (imo)
and the bbc citation link is borked for me
2:36 AM
That seems... more idiomatic than literary, so it'd only be on topic within a very specific context of why it's asked.
9 hours later…
11:42 AM
@Standback so that' why everyone calls him that!
11:56 AM
@Shokhet Yes, but I'll leave it open for a bit longer just in case.
12:50 PM
Q: Why is Gatsby great?

Serg Z.Jay Gatsby in famous Fitzgerald's novel is no doubt smart, talented, brave. But he only pursues his own egoistic desires, quite delusional in his love affairs, does not hesitate to destroy a family, does not create anything, does not make others happy. So why is he great?

1:03 PM
@Bookworm Similar to:
Q: Why is Pechorin a hero of our time?

GallifreyanIn Mikhail Lermontov's A Hero of Our Time (Герой нашего времени), the main hero is Grigory Pechorin, a cynical noble army man, an example of superfluous Byronic hero. The title of the novel has to refer to Pechorin himself - but why? What traits make Pechorin a "hero"? Or is it a negative descr...

1:15 PM
@Bookworm After some research I've found out who suggested the title, and that the author himself always felt it was a bad choice and even said the poor title affected the book's sales.
But I'm not sure if that would really make a good answer ...
Possibly like this? — Mithrandir ♦ 13 mins ago
Without seeing what you wrote here.
1:31 PM
@Randal'Thor Why not? If it explains the word "great" in the title (friend suggested it), then why isn't that an answer?
...it's not in the terms of "why is Gatsby great?" -- you're saying he isn't really, but that may be an XY problem
@Shokhet I feel that a really good answer would explain or at least speculate as to why the friend suggested it. And without having read the book, I can't really do that.
Although it might work better if you explain it in terms of "why is Gatsby great -- A: he isn't really"
@Randal'Thor Fair enough
My answer would be more along the lines of "he isn't really great, and the title isn't very good ... because the author said so". Ideally I should have more to go on than authorial intent.
I want to make this an answer, but I just can't see how to do it :-/
That might work as a comment though; give potential answerers some material to work with, and give the OP some extra info
1 hour later…
2:34 PM
Q: Literary Devices in Ode to a Nightingale?

AirdishWhat are the literary devices used in Ode to a Nightingale by John Keats, and to what effect? (I know this may be a little subjective but it would be great to see different interpretations of the same techniques)

3:00 PM
Q: Nicanor Parra line: "Nothing important is learned from books. (I read this in a book.)" [paraphrase]

DukeZhouThis is one of Parra's "anti-poems" but I can't recall the exact wording, or which book it appeared in, and can't seem to find it online. Q: What is the actual Parra poem? Ideally the answer will feature the Spanish text.

3:25 PM
Congrats @Hamlet on the second Taxonomist badge!
3:41 PM
@BESW meaning in the song "down under" by men at work
4:38 PM
I'm really sorry, but I can't understand why people would upvote this answer. If I try really hard, I can understand agreeing with the conclusion "oral literature should be off-topic on this site". But this answer argues for the conclusion on the basis of completely inaccurate information, and lacks even a basic understanding of what oral literature is or how it works. If you believe that oral literature is off-topic, fine, but at least take the time to understand what oral literature is, and at least find an argument for your views that isn't grounded in complete misinformation. — Hamlet ♦ 13 hours ago
YES. This.
5:27 PM
@Hamlet do need an English to French translator for academic terms
5:53 PM
@Hamlet also could use your input on how to direct-quote sociology articles on a Q&A website
(For the record and as irony is so difficult to perceive on the internet, those requests are not ironic)
6:07 PM
@Hamlet (final one I guess) lastly, while I understand your point, it's important to try and get knowledge that is easily accessible in academia to those that did not access this. My answer was an attempt to do so, and I'm more than ready to understand why it's not good as is and improve it, but let's try and keep this spirit. Two many inline quotations of long, hard to read texts may not be the right solution?
Hey, @DVK-on-Ahch-To, the Strugatsky estate have released all of their works to open access! In hideous .doc and .txt formats, but still.
6:36 PM
Q: Is there a list of book sales (or numerical rank) by author online?

B. Clay ShannonI often find that an author's lesser-known works are among my favorites; some examples are Steinbeck's "Tortilla Flat" and "The Wayward Bus", Jack London's "The Road," and Twain's "The American Claimant" (not to mention Grisham's "A Painted House"). Is there an online site that would show, filte...

@Bookworm Do we have a better tag for this?
@Randal'Thor I created a resource request tag for it. I am not sure if that will be what it ends up being, but it is a heck of a lot better than what was there.
6:56 PM
@Randal'Thor @Mithrandir Nevermind, I am just going to roll back to edit one. It seems dangerous to have a tag devoted to off-topic questions. It would give people the wrong ideas.
@MatrimCauthon Are resource requests off-topic?
They're not the same as recommendations. I thought we'd had one or two resource-request questions which did OK.
Sounds like a thing for Meta
Ah I see I came just in time for another meta debate :P
7:12 PM
@MatrimCauthon I was about to ask you about your revisions to that post. The current tagging on that question is very messy :/
FTR I VTC'ed as "Unclear," because I didn't understand if he wanted a list for just those authors (and maybe just those books), or a general request. ...I think the general request for a ranking of book sales would be fine
As asked (and tagged!), I thought it was unclear
7:28 PM
@Randal'Thor [product-recommendation] works on some sites, but IINM most SE sites reject those
Speaking of things that work on some sites but not others, I'd like a very informal sample of the opinion of the Lit.SE community on [list] questions. I've already predicted your response, but I wonder if I'm wrong.
Not every device, I actually suggest a big-list tag for this and perhaps making this a community wiki question so as to incorporate everyone's analysis equally. — Airdish 4 hours ago
List questions don't work well on most Stack Exchange sites. If you want to make Lit another exception, you can ask about it on Meta, but I doubt the community will agree with you. — Shokhet 5 mins ago
@MatrimCauthon exactly. I removed that tag earlier this week...
...I don't care about [list] enough to ask on Meta, but I wonder what will happen if Airdish does
@Shokhet I say ban them...
Quick question, I'm experiencing an issue with 'protect' option on Puzzling. It's not appearing for anyone anywhere. Does anyone have the privilege here?
@Mithrandir There's no reason to make a separate ban for something that's already off topic :p
...I was wondering if anyone would take the Math option
...I guess not
@BeastlyGerbil There's a separate chat for that...
7:41 PM
@BeastlyGerbil question? Or chat?
@BeastlyGerbil I have all the rep privileges here ... hang on, let me check ...
@BeastlyGerbil Unless I misunderstood, you're looking to protect a question on Puzzling.SE?
no, he's not
@Shokhet no I think there might be a site wide bug
7:42 PM
@Shokhet he's syaing that he can't protect anything on puzzling
and than he's wondering if anybody on lit can
My apologies, then @BeastlyGerbil
Apology accepted :)
@Riker Ah. Okay
@BeastlyGerbil Nope, not working here either.
Post a bug report on main meta?
Already have
7:42 PM
Q: Protect privelege has disappeared

Beastly GerbilOn Puzzling, I noticed first that there wasn't an option to protect my own questions. I brought this up in chat, and other high-rep users replied that it has disappeared for them too. Not sure if this is just Puzzling, or site wide, but I have just under 16k rep and have had the privilege a whil...

Oh, I just found one with the option
I can protect by clicking on the mod option
@BeastlyGerbil which one?
@Mithrandir so can I on veg.se
@Randal'Thor Are you sure your question was eligible? meta.stackexchange.com/questions/292762/…
7:45 PM
Looks like the rules changed somewhat recently
@Mithrandir Yeah, protection works differently for mods.
Hmm, seems to have been rule change...
hm, I can unprotect things on codegolf
I can unprotect, but not protect
7:46 PM
Most odd.
Looks like I ninja'ed your edit by about 6 seconds, @Randal'Thor :P meta.stackexchange.com/posts/292762/revisions
@Shokhet Heh :-)
@Randal'Thor Did you edit the title? Cuz I didn't, and it shows in the edit summary (and the title hasn't changed)
i did
@Shokhet No. I started editing it and then didn't after all.
7:50 PM
Got it.
I never understood DVs on a question that wasn't a low quality post. Have they tried the bug, and found it to be ? It's not like a question, where a DV could/should signify a difference of opinion
meh, its meta so I don't particularly care
True enough
I'm just curious what it means, though. What was the DV'er trying to say?
Most odd.
8:08 PM
Say, I wanted to ask a question about a short story by Neil Gaiman
feel free?
How do I tag it? Do I add the name of the book it was collected in? What is our latest consensus on ?
Just tag it author and °I think. Not 100% sure
8:10 PM
So we shouldn't have tags for books that are collections of short stories by the same author?
To Meta!
Q: Should we be tagging questions with the names of specific books?

Beastly GerbilI can't help but notice that already, we have a lot of tags. I've gone through them and seen quite a few tags with a specific name of a book, with maybe 1 or 2 posts on it. I'm thinking that okay, there are a few pieces of literature that a lot of questions have been asked about, but if we cont...

@BeastlyGerbil I never quite got to agree with the answer there
Besides, that is not how we've been doing things so far. All the questions I've seen had an author and a work tag.
I guess people just didn't care about that meta, and judging how no one raised objections I guess no one minds having individual work tags
I think my post was more about series than individual books
@BeastlyGerbil that is not how it looks like, and that is definitely not what @Standback defends
8:17 PM
Yeah I don't think a conclusion was ever reached
Maybe we shouldn't have a tag for each work in a series, but other books do deserve a tag. And if people don't want to follow a billion work tags - just don't follow them. I follow only the author tags, and it works fine for me. Tag overflow is not something we should be concerned with, as long as we are consistent and don't create very generic tags
Q: A proposal for [poetry] and [short-stories]

Rand al'ThorWe've had a couple of discussions about these tags already: Is [poetry] too broad / how should we use the tag? How should we use [short-stories]? Consensus in both cases was to keep the tags, but much of the reason boiled down to "it's not bad enough to get rid of", and nobody really addresse...

Just floating an idea for a reading challenge; why not something similar to SFF's upcoming Ladies' Night? ...I don't know if the Bechdel test is applied to books, but the Lit.SE equivalent would probably be just "by a female author." Thoughts?
@Shokhet Too broad?
Bit broad
Ninja'd :P
8:27 PM
Also we don't have a tag for that, so the questions would have to be monitored manually
I mean, the current proposal for reading challenges is do something about the site's diversity problem....
Maybe a future proposal could ask for challenges within that sector? ....the request for proposals is itself very broad atm
@Shokhet Exactly. There's plenty of mainstream western literature written by female authors.
If we had a "Ladies' Night" topic challenge, we could just get inundated by questions about Jane Eyre and Wuthering Heights and Pride and Prejudice.
Fair enough
But what about asking for not-as-well-known works by women? Like I said before, the current proposal is very broad
"Ladies Month: Choose a topic challenge!"
Yeah, something like that.
@Shokhet Well, let's see how it goes. With only one challenge per month, it's going to be a long time before we run out of ideas and start getting creative with new twists.
8:37 PM
Edited my answer. I think it's too late to change anything now that we've been tagging questions with titles, unless we're feeling masochistic.
@Randal'Thor Fair enough
Good night everyone!
Night @Gallifreyan!
Gnite :)
@Gallifreyan night!
8:46 PM
night @Gallifreyan
Poor @Gallifreyan is gonna come back here in the morning with like 50 "good night" pings :P
@Gallifreyan night! And another ping :P
@Shokhet That's why I always say goodnight a few minutes before I actually leave, so I can dismiss all the ping notifications and not have to wake up to them.
@Randal'Thor That's smart
Whenever I say I am going to bed I always somehow come back...
This site is addictive.
8:59 PM
The anticipation when you open your computer in the morning hoping for big rep changes and not too many pings kills me
@BeastlyGerbil Well, I'm apparently the #22 most pinged user on the SE network over the last year, so I'm kinda used to waking up to pingfests.
he :P where did you get that stat from?
And plus you are active on a ton of sites
The most notifications I have had at once is 22.
After Saturday a couple weeks ago.
With the CW business...
The second most was last week?, with 14.
@Mithrandir Of course you get a lot of pings when you randomly don't clear them for 25 hours straight :P
@BeastlyGerbil It's a secret ;-)
9:07 PM
bah :P
And third place goes to when I disappeared from SE for 6 months. I had a rep change of over 300 and 13 notifications...
@Mithrandir 56 when something malfunctioned and didn't clear my chat pings, even though I replied to them
but short of that my max is like 19
why did you have so many pings?
Bugs don't count :P
@Mithrandir That's insect discrimination!
@Riker 4 were from the CW business.
The others were general answers, comments, and pings from around the network.
9:10 PM
@BeastlyGerbil Yeah, but I was still pretty shocked by that statistic. Given the people who churn out dozens of answers every day on SO, and the people who mod half a dozen different sites, and the people who actually get paid to hang out on SE ...
There were a few pings from Smokey, too.
@Mithrandir ah
@Riker mobile
But I think I just did
@Mithrandir I did.
9:14 PM
I was trying to
And then it was unpinned
Why remove the [Hogwarts] tag, @Randal'Thor? This seems like a Hogwarts question to me — Mithrandir 2 mins ago
I just got a Nice Answer badge? Woo.
This ad seems to imply that we don't have any answers :
...and I'm rambling.
@Mithrandir Likely because any Hogwarts question will be a Harry Potter question, if I had to guess
(But I don't spend a lot of time on SFF, so I don't know all the nuances of their tagging system)
@Ash sub tags exist. That Hogwarts tag has been around for a while.
Oh, then I have no idea :) Like I said, I don't know all their tag nuances :)
Because if it's a tag that's used, that feels like a good spot to put it
9:18 PM
Nobody knows all the tagging nuances :P
@Mithrandir Hmm. I think of the tag as being about the physical structure of Hogwarts, rather than the lessons and organisation of the school, but I could be wrong.
@Ash You lucky, lucky person :-)
laughs I come from Arqade, if things get more than just the game title tag, it's a rare day :P
What about [time-turner] questions, @Randal'Thor? :P
Although if you start talking about tags on SFF, prepare for doomsday.
People there are sick of tag discussions
9:25 PM
Why are we having this discussion in Lit chat anyway?
@Mithrandir Mith's fault
@Randal'Thor because I'm too lazy to head over to Mos
Mobile has its downsides
(not saying you have to move there, but here's a handy dandy link)
also mobile chat lets you go to the favorites tab then rejoin all in the hamburger menu
bloops over
9:28 PM
(don't know why it's stuck in there or exclusively on the favorites page)
@Riker finally got around to reading the le Guin short story you posted a while ago
that was not what I expected :D
oh cool
did you like it?
@MartinEnder yeah, kinda dark but pretty nice
yeah that was really good
she's one of my favorite authors
I don't know. I read the first Earthsea book a couple of years ago and just really couldn't get into it.
I liked the worldbuilding, but I just really couldn't get into her writing style for some reason.
9:33 PM
hm, I understand what you mean
it was too, I don't know... fairy-tale like for my taste
actually, I think I also remember that I didn't like the character development either. it just didn't seem very believable, which added to the fairy-tale feeling.
I think I'll bug @Shokhet to go edit this...
@Mithrandir Hey, that's CW for a reason ;-)
What do you want added?
My most recent question and most recent answer ;)
Which are those?
Maus and...?
9:39 PM
A: Why are there so many references to Moneylenders and Jews in 19th century fiction?

MithrandirAt the time, there were many Jewish bankers/moneylenders, so moneylenders were probably often portrayed as Jews. For a very long time, the Jews have been associated with banking and money. There are a few reasons, such as that there were a lot of Jewish bankers after the 11th century. In The Enc...

I don't even know if I've read any Le Guin. I should really fix that.
(Not that I need to add to my 475 item TBR list, but you know.)
@Mithrandir Okay, sure.
Thanks :)
9:44 PM
You were trying to hide? Well, so much for that ;-)
@VicAche just quote these sources like you would quote from any other source
Heading off to class soon. See ya!
@VicAche no where in my comments did I ask for "inline quotations of long, hard to read texts." I didn't even ask for quotations.
@Shokhet bye!
9:48 PM
@VicAche One of the problems with your answer is that you were making claims but not explaining where those claims came from. You made progress towards fixing that with the note you added at the beginning of your answer.

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