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7:18 PM
I was trying to figure out how someone new had 128k rep, but it turns out that chat can show rep on other sites too
Yeah, chat is an aggregate
@LliwTelracs If you're referring to this, it's not the same challenge as what was posted to main.
@AdmBorkBork It appears he deleted his other challenge from the sandbox but I think it was ais523 who said it didn't seem interesting when it was in sandbox
It appears that the posted challenge was changed into the fortress chess but he posted the original challenge anyway
There's this one (ability to view deleted posts required), but that's even further from what got posted. It also as the comment from ais as you recall.
@LliwTelracs Yes, that's accurate. Thanks for clarifying that.
7:42 PM
Am I the only one who read the new featured Meta.SE post as "Can a machine be taught to post spam automatically?"?
Q: Number of string permutations that are palindromes

Andrei MihailescuInput A string consisting of small english letters. Task Determine the number of permutations of the original string that are a palindrome; Given that the string has up to 100 digits the result must be %666013. Example Input:cababaa Output: 3 Possible perumtations: aabcbaa abacaba baacaab

I think code-golf should be default/assumed
Never mind, Martin had closed it already and now it's been edited
Q: Python with alternative keywords

Riker A while ago, a user on Programming Puzzles and Code Golf had an idea: How about a language where all of the core commands are PPCG usernames? -- Helka Homba A list was made of username/(keyword|builtin function) pairs, but nobody really wanted to actually make the code, so it kinda went o...

@DJMcMayhem, @muddyfish, @HelkaHomba ^
that went well.
7:46 PM
@Riker I'm really torn now. I don't know if +1 for awesome and PPCG, or -1 for CR. :/
You forgot me ;_;
jk, I really don't care
@DJMcMayhem lol
@ETHproductions I didn't know you did anything sorry
@ETHproductions There's still room for you. What do you want?
@Riker you're not actually using the to_exec variable
oh shit that's an old version
deleting 1 sec need to fix
7:49 PM
PSA: If you want to be added to The People's Python there are still assignments available! Ping me with your name and which of these builtins you'd like and I'll get you added to the list.
@DJMcMayhem Can I be exec? :)
(Someone star please? Not official site business, so I won't pin)
Thanks four of you. :)
@DJMcMayhem I can be a bit complex at times
There's nothing that would really go well as ETHproductions on that list, but then again, very few of the existing ones make sense :P
> "xnor":"or",
Not misleading at all
7:53 PM
That ... would be more confusing than logical
but why not :D
but it's never been going for clarity, so...
@DJMcMayhem *6
@DJMcMayhem also when you can, can I have edit-status? :3
@DJMcMayhem I wish to be float. I've always wanted to float around
"asciionly":"ascii", "zyabin":"bin", "bkul":"bool", "chris":"chr" are the only other ones I've found that even remotely make sense
7:54 PM
Should we change "buttner":"assert" to "ender":"assert"?
Oh, and "lynn":"len"
we used to have alex:false but that was mean so now it's martin:false
@muddyfish prolly
"katenkyo":"continue" is pretty close
it actually makes a bit more sense also
@Riker Sure. I'll add you right now since I can't really make these edits as people ping me, haha
7:55 PM
lol I'll try to
@Riker Illuminati confirmed
Q: Fizz Buzz Lightyear

osuka_In the wake of the many (two?) FizzBuzz-related challenges posted recently on PPCG, I've been tempted to come up with my own. Behold... Fizz Buzz Lightyear Write a program or function that takes an integer n and prints out FizzBuzz for any number divisible by 15, Fizz for any number divisible b...

woot htanks @DJMcMayhem
got it
Should I add @muddyfish?
up to him but I'd say sure
7:56 PM
@DJMcMayhem I'm already in there as sum: some muddy fish
I meant as a collaborator
@DJMcMayhem sure
I'm not sure how that works but it's a thing
@ATaco making "taco":"float"?
or ataco
I can't find you. GH link?
7:57 PM
@ATaco lowercase only
ataco, then.
normally I would just post to the online Pyke interpreter but it's died because my developer program ran out :(
Now I've actually got to pay for a server/use another one
@JanDvorak should I put you as "jandvorak"?
or do you want 2 builtins, 1 for each name?
7:59 PM
Can I be "honnza"?
i.e. complex is "jan" and something else is "dvorak"
@ETHproductions: I just updated my answer (this one), because I just fit the program on a 5x5x5 cube. If you have any suggestions (improvements to the code or explanation), please let me know.
@JanDvorak sure?
Maybe eth could be one thing and productions something else? property is pretty close
@BusinessCat you also: just plain "businesscat" for "exec"?
@ETHproductions sure, what for eth?
8:00 PM
@Luke .........what O_O
Yes sure
@BusinessCat kk
That's amazing, you've cut it more than in half and by two cube sizes
I can ask dennis to add it to TIO
8:00 PM
@ETHproductions productions should clearly alias to del. We wouldn't want the keywords to make sense, would we?
@DLosc I'm glad my country doesn't have a president :D
(would probably be quite ridiculous)
@Dennis but that's already nathan :P
@ETHproductions Ah, nevermind then.
8:01 PM
Can I have a keyword too?
@ETHproductions Is this what you get if you divide than by zero?
@ETHproductions so what for "eth"?
How about str? I love type coercion
@Dennis Could you fix my typo? builtin's --> builtins >_<
8:03 PM
perhaps jan should be oct? Because ... months.
I'd like frozenset
@ETHproductions Frozenset, ridiculous name so I choose this
@JanDvorak haha, perfect
8:04 PM
@ETHproductions sure
Wait, I already have a built-in
I guess I should fill in dec and hex as well then
@Luke okay
This thing has existed for so long I forgot about it
8:04 PM
and luke just picked frozenset
I'm sorry
What on earth is a frozenset? I should learn more Python
@DJMcMayhem What typo?
It's a set
But it's frozen
@ETHproductions it's useless
8:06 PM
@ETHproductions Frozen sets are immutable, so they can be dictionary keys or member of other sets.
@Dennis Nevermind me
Wait, I'm an idiot
Why on earth would you want a set to be a dictionary key?
Why not?
@Dennis Hmm... can regular sets not be either of those then, I'm guessing? Otherwise it would be a completely useless type
@ETHproductions I still cannot see any use case for wanting to use them in the first place. They have exactly the same lookup times as regular sets
8:08 PM
@ETHproductions Neither sets or lists. Dictionary keys and sets can only have elements of hashable types for easy comparisons.
You don't have any builtin for sleep
@KritixiLithos sleep isn't a keyword
@ETHproductions: Cubix feature request: command to let IP go through the cube. See here for an illustration (if the IP would come across such a command on one A, it'd jump to the other A, and likewise for all other characters).
@DJMcMayhem "poke" seems like a fun keyword. i don't mind which one but i think it'd be fun if it sorta made sense
Ah, I thought you were going to do functions as well
8:10 PM
it's still not one, you need to import it
@Dennis I suppose that's better than JS, where dict[new Set("abc")] === dict[new Set()]
@DJMcMayhem Could I get __import__ -> wheat
I got that
@ETHproductions that's because you're doing it wrong
@WheatWizard want anything for wizard?
8:11 PM
@JanDvorak shh, the type coercion is supposed to be a secret
@Poke dir kinda makes sense.
@Riker I think there's enough people that want one it would be best to keep it to one each
Except for the people that have already claimed a bunch I guess?
@Dennis dir sounds good to me. thanks for the suggestion. <-- @DJMcMayhem
8:14 PM
@Luke Hmm... so it'd be one character that sends the IP to the corresponding spot on the opposite face, or a "teleport" instruction with sending and receiving ends?
I actually meant the former, but the latter would be really nice as well
through the center, or along an orthogonal?
@Poke kk
@Luke you can save 10 bytes by using some fancy control flow to get rid of the extra /: ethproductions.github.io/cubix/…
That sure is some fancy control flow ;-). Thanks!
8:17 PM
PSA to all TIO users: I rewrote the entire API and it just went live. Best case scenario, you shouldn't notice any changes. Please report anything out of the ordinary in talk.tryitonline.net.
About the minimal TC charset challenge: Is I/O required, or can we just assume input/output can be given in some other way (e.g. on the stack before/after execution, in a specificied variable, etc.)?
I see no reason why our code golf defaults should apply to a code challenge.
@ETHproductions the only I/O you require for Turing completeness is no input, and output signalled via entering an infinite loop versus not entering an infinite loop
(note that being able to enter an infinite loop is required, not just an easy way to signal output; it's normally considered that if you have no way to exit, you can do something else to signal having halted, though)
@ais523 Ohhhh... that makes a lot of sense, thanks
I learned esoteric programming from Esolang, Turing-completeness is much more relevant there than it is here
so feel free to ask if you have questions on how it works
8:31 PM
Hmm, what else is required to make it TC? I can't imagine that the only requirement is being able to loop infinitely or not loop infinitely
@ETHproductions It cannot be computable by a Turing machine when it loops infiinitely and doesn't
Hmm, apparently C isn't TC because it's incapable of computing anything infinite by definition...
@ETHproductions No real-world implementation of any language is Turing complete.
@ETHproductions the mathematical definition is along the lines of "given any computable program whose only I/O is in whether it halts or not, you can translate that program into the language and it'll halt or not accordingly"
8:36 PM
@muddyfish fixed
@Dennis agreed, but a language itself can be Turing-complete, and many real-world languages are; it's just that the implementation can only be an approximation
(this is part of the reason why Esolang doesn't define languages by their implementation, but by their specification)
look, SE makes me move my mouse in order to link a chat reply; however, I don't normally use my mouse while typing, so it stays in the same place
I don't mind at all
just thought it was funny, I've done the same thing in the past
@ais523 @ETHproductions My point is that, as long as we don't let the real world interfere with our thought exercises, C is Turing complete.
8:38 PM
my comment will move the messages, so that the mouse is now over the chat reply location for a different comment, and so if I bump the touchpad while I type, it'll end up pinging a random person
@Dennis it isn't, except possibly via the file API; the culprit is that the existence of sizeof makes it impossible to allocate unbounded amounts of heap memory or non-register stack memory, and register stack memory can only be used in the reverse order it's allocated, which isn't enough for Turing-completeness
@Dennis But the point is that C is designed to only have finite-sized data. Other languages can use as much memory as they want, so long as there's memory available
Q: Is C actually Turing-complete?

TLWI was trying to explain to someone that C is Turing-complete, and realized that I don't actually know if it is, indeed, technically Turing-complete. (C as in the abstract semantics, not as in an actual implementation.) The "obvious" answer (roughly: it can address an arbitrary amount of memory,...

it's possible to define the file API in such a way that it doesn't defy the C standard and allows for Turing-completeness, but such an implementation would be very weird (it would violate POSIX, for example)
oh wow, the accepted answer makes almost exactly the same points I did, as well
@ais523 Which language is Turing complete then?
I think Python is, fairly simply
8:42 PM
But Python is written in C...
most higher-level languages are, in the senes of "distant from the hardware"
Any language that can store unbounded amounts of data is fully TC, I believe (unbounded except by the machine it's running on, anyway)
@Dennis not necessarily, it has multiple implementations; and Turing-completeness is based on the specification, not the implementation
no implementation can be Turing-complete due to the known physical limits on the amount of data it's possible to store in a given volume
@ETHproductions that's not true either, it's relatively easy to construct counterexamples
one of my favourite is a BF derviative in which moving left on the tape erases the cell you were on
Speaking of Turing completeness I was going to implement an esolang that's Turing completeness is dependent on an unsolved problem in mathematics (probably Sophie-Germain primes) and was looking for some suggestions
it has unbounded storage, and is more powerful than a finite-state machine, but there are plenty of things it can't do
8:44 PM
Any language that can store unbounded amounts of data and can still operate on any of it, then?
@WheatWizard something like that almost happened accidentally recently, in my five-char Brachylog; that was dependent on the number of repunit primes that exist, but it turned out 3 is enough
And still fulfills the halt/not halt requirement
you could do something similar where 3 isn't enough, I guess?
I was going to make it so that every time it needs to allocate new space it first finds a Sophie-Germain Prime. This way if the SG primes are unbounded it is TC but otherwise it has finite memory.
@ETHproductions so a quick "mental checklist" for Turing-completeness, which is not 100% reliable but is at least 95% reliable, is unbounded storage + a control flow construct at a similar level of power to while + some way to work around any restrictions on command sequencing that the language might have
8:46 PM
My method is just implement BF
@WheatWizard I mean, that works, but I prefer to make my esolangs' gimmicks more firmly baked into the language
Yeah I might give it some more thought
@ATaco that does prove it, although it's often harder than it needs to be; there are many simpler languages than BF
I was considering implementing SKI combinator calculus in JS, but then I read more about it and realized that JS's control flow doesn't allow for those type of calculations
Q: Blink the CAPS LOCK

zeppelinMost computer keyboards feature a small integrated LED light, indicating the current input mode, as controlled with the CAPS LOCK button. Your task is to blink it: Turn it on; Wait for 0.5 (+/-0.1) seconds; Turn it off again. Video footage of the LED blinking is highly appreciated ! Rule...

8:48 PM
cyclic tag is normally easiest if you have a very limited system to work with; Minsky machines are another common option
I like Minsky Machines
Thats how I proved Miniflak.
@NewMainPosts I call applescript answer
i accidentally made Threead Turing Complete in one thread, which made me a sad taco
oh wow, now I wonder if the cheating answer a) would be considered malicious code, and b) would be shorter than the direct answers
and if I have a virtual machine available to test it in
might make for a different challenge, I guess? or maybe a duplicate
I think BF could be implemented in Cubix using 0()q#t, plus a few control chars
@ais523 Which answer?
8:50 PM
I haven't posted it yet
BTW, I discovered today that JSF*** isn't the only 6-char JS charset. You can replace the ! with any of <=> and it would still work
Without negation it's not TC
The only purpose of ! is to create true/false, which can be done with any of <, ==, >
We discovered a while ago that it isn't possible to do everything with []()+
@TuxCopter Type coercion, mainly. []+[] == "", +[] == 0, ![] == false, ![]+[] == "false" and so on
Then you can build up strings, e.g. (![]+[])[+[]]+([![]]+[][[]])[+!+[]+[+[]]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[]]+(![]+[])[!+[]+!+[‌​]] for "fill", get the constructor of a function (which is the Function function), and use that to eval whatever code you want
Yes, but how to negate with <, > or ==?
You don't have to negate, the only purpose of ! is to achieve the true and false literals
It's almost possible without !:
Q: JSF**k with only 5 symbols?

Jens RendersThis is not a challenge but a question, I figured it was on topic because of Non-challenge questions that are related to solving programming puzzles or a particular type of challenge are also on topic. Now on to the question: Is it possible to write any JavaScript code with only 5 letters?...

8:58 PM
+++[]<+[] would be 1<0
[]==[] gets false, []+[]==[] gets true
As loony as that sounds :P
@LliwTelracs Isn't 1 +[[]]?
@TuxCopter can't remember my js****
You can get 1 with ++[+[]][+[]] (that is, ++[0][0])
Oh wait nvm I forgot about ++
9:01 PM
@ETHproductions turns out it's invalid, so I posted it as a comment instead
@ais523 Oh, OK. At first I couldn't tell if you were talking about the TC challenge or that one
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Wheat WizardImplement a Language of Unknown Computability Status Determining whether a Language is Turing Complete is a difficult task to begin with, but lets kick it up a notch. Your task is to devise and implement a language whose Turing Completeness relies on a major unsolved problem in Mathematics. Ru...

9:18 PM
@Downgoat Have you seen this?!
"Beep bleet"
@mınxomaτ 10/10
would ride goatmobile again
9:34 PM
@DJMcMayhem everything from this post onwards except for the New Sandboxed Posts post, I think
@mınxomaτ DMV always fails me when I show up wih one of these :(
@ais523 And the goatmobile
Dang that's a lot
There's a little bit left over, but it isn't really off-topic so I don't think it would be too bad to leave it
9:43 PM
My smart alarm clock is working, it now has an MPD server!!
oh damn dudes
I quaffed from a fountain and got a wish
wrong channel ;-)
CMC: Output 10 lat/long pairs where each one is on land in a different nation. (golf)
best options would be as close to the UK as possible
because 0° 0° is there
@DJMcMayhem VoteToClose -> delattr
9:55 PM
Maybe. But any evenly spaced set in one cardinal direction would be handy
@DJMcMayhem Aw why did you make Martin false instead of Alex A.?
because it was originally him
@VoteToClose added you
Iirc Alex specifically requested not False
ah k
9:59 PM
@VoteToClose I didn't. I happen to own the repo right now, but I haven't really done anything >_<
@HelkaHomba do independent territories count
i.e. puerto rico, isle of man, etc.
@Riker thanks for progressing that thing with the tokenizer btw :)
:D np
really it was muddyfish's help that got it finished
@Riker nah, peurto rico would count as US
10:02 PM
And disputed zones...Idk
number one: sao tome, 0° and 6.5°
right next to the equator
Gabon, 0° and 9.8°
5,6 in nigeria
5,10 in cameroon
somebody else can do the rest
I wanted code
@HelkaHomba does hardcoding work?
That's OK
and can each number be printed on it's own line? (i.e. "5°\n10°\n" is one pair, the next two lines are the next pair)
10:09 PM
Yeah, output in convenient, reasonable way
@HelkaHomba This should be Mauritania, Western Sahara, Mali, Algeria, Niger, Libya, Sudan, Egypt, Yemen, and Saudi Arabia. tio.run/nexus/…
what's the output format?
is that 2 pairs per line?
Mine is 2 locations per line, separated by a comma
ah kk
10:14 PM
@DJMcMayhem can I be exec in The People's Python?
already taken iirc
I checked the document of unclaimed keywords
yeah, sorry I forgot to remove it from that list :s
business cat got it earlier today
sorry @Pavel
yeah :/
10:16 PM
Can I be a module instead of a builtin?
@Riker ^
I want to by sys.
10:34 PM
@Pavel uh sure?
added you
11:02 PM
@HelkaHomba as the person who created this project, how do you feel about adding people's names as modules?
@Riker can we add leftgoat and rightgoat too? :3
Are __init__ and __name__ and such open?
Or maybe even chathuahua
@Pavel idk I think usernames should be assigned to keywords that go with their name unlike FS to Downgoat or something
Question: Should GitGoat have ability to clone repo and edit file and all?
So, /(user|jimmy)23013/ can be __name__?
@Downgoat Do iPhones even have a filesystem that you can access?
no iOS runs on 100% RAM and never actually turns off
11:10 PM
I know there's a filesystem, but can you access it directly?
If not, cloning a github repo probably wouldn't be too useful.
I do see being able to edit a file directly from the app being a useful, however.
@Pavel oh sorry thought you were asking if iOS had an FS
You can
you just can't access root (system) files
Ok, then yeah, probably useful, especially if you can use them with existing interpreters.
Oh interesting idea
@Dennis is this bad news for TIO client
@Pavel init isn't a builtin or a keyword
its an overloadable method
@Downgoat Your client wasn't using the latest version anyway, but some legacy code I'm keeping around. I'd like to remove that soon though.
11:20 PM
does new version still use binary API I need to decipher?
It's still binary, but it's more straightforward.
@Maltysen I know, but I think it would be interesting to write __wat__ instead.
@Downgoat Actually, if you apply the proper labels to your textareas, you can probably use my code.
11:34 PM
This is why php makes me sad.
11:46 PM
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

PhaezeCaps Lock Morse Code Inspired by Blink the CAPS LOCK Input will be a string that contains only characters that can be represented in morse code. Convert the input string to morse code and then output it using either the Caps Lock, Num Lock or Scroll Lock indicators on the keyboard Thoughts on...

@Pavel +1 for using RES
That's not my screenshot though, I found it on reddit.

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