The Nineteenth Byte

2:26 PM

@El'endiaStarman I gotta say as a past chatroom owner (not on SE) I'd have just banned everyone who frustrated me before stepping down. Hope you're not too stressed out. Remember PPCG is just supposed to be a fun escape and not a full time job. Thanks for the data explorer :]

Kritixi Lithos

He left for good?!

Poke

/me shrugs

Downgoat

2:45 PM

Did we ever go though with esolangs.SE porpoiseal?

TuxCopter

> porpoiseal

Matthew Roh

I dont know

> porpoiseal

Anonymous

Community challenge issued: let's get answers in every language available on TIO on the Hello World, primality test, truth machine, and FizzBuzz challenges.

9

Business Cat

7

Programming Languages and Language Design

Proposed Q&A site for programmers interested in the design of practical, esoteric, and golfing programming language, as well as those who understand and use esolangs.

Closed before being launched.

Downgoat

Ah, thanks

Matthew Roh

2:50 PM

Should I make a KOTH "Massive arena battle" challenge? I'm interested in KOTH challenges but I dont know what to do.

For example, All the submitted scripts fight in a big circular arena

trichoplax

KotHs are a lot of work to set up, although less so than they used to be because people have been working on frameworks to help with that. You could start by describing the idea in the sandbox to get it well specified and make sure it's feasible.

Poke

@Mego Like just adding a TIO to each of the answers if it doesn't have one?

Zgarb

@MatthewRoh You could use the KoTHComm framework, if you can figure out how it works.

And if you know Java.

Matthew Roh

I do. A bit.

Anyways I think it would be better if the post was a community wiki.

Anonymous

@Poke Yes, and adding new answers in languages that are on TIO but don't already have answers

Poke

2:59 PM

@Mego Sounds like a neat idea. Have a star

AdmBorkBork

I'm not sure that I wanna test my sanity by attempting to program a primality test in Half-Broken Car in Heavy Traffic ... :-/

Business Cat

I don't even know how to do a primality test in brainfuck

Anonymous

@BusinessCat Very carefully

Matthew Roh

@BusinessCat you don't. There's not even basic division stuff.

Business Cat

But it's Turing complete

So you can do it

Oh, of course Dennis did it in 62 bytes

Matthew Roh

3:07 PM

kek

The language worst for golfing

Whitespace

I mean, If one masters whitespace, We can say he mastered all langs

TuxCopter

No

If someone masters Half-broken car in heavy traffic he won the universe though

Matthew Roh

If someone masters brainfuck, his brain is already fucked

Gabriel Benamy

brainfuck isn't all that difficult to do things in. it's difficult to do things effectively in, but once you understand what's happening, it's pretty simple.

Matthew Roh

I know. But mastering is hard af.

Downgoat

@MatthewRoh nah, it's pretty easy copy & pasting from Dennis' BF answers ;P

New Sandboxed Posts

3:28 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The many names of Túrin Tolkien's character Túrin had a multiple personality disorder and consequently needed to change name on a regular basis to be called by something fitting its current mood. He has been known as Turambar, Mormegil, Gorthol, Adanedhel, Dagnir Glaurunga, the Wildman of the Wo...

Nathan Merrill

@MatthewRoh If you do use the KoTHComm framework, I'm more than happy to support your efforts

I'm rather interested in how people use it

Gabriel Benamy

3:55 PM

i love setup calls where nothing goes right :)

Wheat Wizard

Does anyone know if there is a way to execute some code n times in stack cats? I have a available stacks for garbage.

Pavel

4:08 PM

Wait, what happened with El'Endia? Did I miss something?

DJMcMayhem

He got sick of moderating noisy people who didn't learn

Rainbolt

I thought that suspensions slowly increased in duration

Meaning that if someone didn't learn, eventually they would just be gone for very long periods of time

Pavel

They do, but it resets after some time.

Anonymous

@Rainbolt The berating he received after every suspension probably had something to do with it, too

AdmBorkBork

@Mego That's the part that I feel bad about. People didn't seem to learn.

Pavel

4:18 PM

I feel bad now ;-;

Rainbolt

Oh okay, I see the transcript now, and I understand what happened. @El'endiaStarman got the wrong idea. I am not "for noise". There are three options available to us here, and I'll spell them out so that I am no longer miscategorized:
1. Moderate noise loudly. Nag a lot.
2. Moderate noise quietly. Nag when it gets bad.
3. Don't moderate noise.
Number 2 is my position, and I'm sorry that @El'endiaStarman got the wrong idea.

Yesterday I made a comment and got labelled "metanoise". Today I'm labelled "for noise". You see the problem here?

Business Cat

I totally agree

Pavel

We've been pretty good at number 2. Noise rarely goes above a few messages.

AdmBorkBork

To me, it feels like the mods and ROs were seemingly afraid of stepping on people's toes. Too much worry about "community consensus" (as if that's really a thing). You were elected by community consensus or appointed thereof. Take that responsibility and work it.

8

Doorknob

@Rainbolt Three options... if only it were that simple.

Rainbolt

4:22 PM

I realize I am oversimplifying, and that noise levels fall on a scale, but I think you get the idea

Business Cat

IMO, the only stuff that's noise is excessive emotes/emojis/weird unicode characters, or unintelligible/nonsensical posts for the sake of it

Idle chatter isn't noise

trichoplax

I think part of the problem is that when done well, 2 is invisible, so only the occasional discussion where silent kicking wasn't sufficient is seen, which makes it look like 1.

Business Cat

And sometimes I get the sense the RO's think it is

Pavel

So... does this mean we'll need another RO election?

mınxomaτ

Whatever happened to Megos suggestion of adding more ROs?

DJMcMayhem

4:27 PM

Well regardless of if you wanted more RO's before, we could definitely use some now that elendia has resigned

Anonymous

@AdmBorkBork I agree. It always felt like there wasn't enough enforcement of the policies.

Anonymous

13 hours ago, by Mego

@feersum I'm tired, too. I wish we as a community could just agree on some very basic standards of acceptable social behavior. I believe the standards I outlined here are suitable for this room. But even if my proposal isn't the one we go with, I just want the issue to be settled, so we can go back to chatting without hourly debates on what is and isn't acceptable here.

Anonymous

13 hours ago, by Mego

I posted that proposal 2 weeks ago. Since then, it's gotten decent support (+11/-3), and no other solutions have been proposed (the other two answers, both by xnor, identify the current problems rather than propose a solution). There's even stronger support (+18/-4) for my proposal of electing more room owners. I think that's enough support on both of them to move forward with them. It's up to the mods and current ROs now to implement them.

mınxomaτ

So?

Anonymous

It's now at +12/-2

Anonymous

4:29 PM

I brought it up last night. Unfortunately, there's nothing we can do. It's up to the mods and ROs to run the election, add the new ROs, and implement the policy.

mınxomaτ

> It's up to the mods and ROs to run the election

I don't see why. The implementation is.

Pavel

If we do get an RO election, I nominate Mego.

Anonymous

@mınxomaτ It feels strange to me for someone to run the election who isn't capable of actually adding the elected users as ROs.

mınxomaτ

Why? It's a community election. This doesn't exclude feedback by the mods.

Anonymous

I dunno. Maybe I'm just being weird.

mınxomaτ

4:32 PM

E.g. Write an election post and wait a few days for crucial improvements via edits. Then go through.

Anonymous

I'd like the election to be run like mod elections - nominations, then picking a certain number of candidates, then voting for top 3 choices. Unfortunately, it's not really feasible to do that on meta.

trichoplax

@AdmBorkBork Kicks and suspensions are not generally visible to the community unless they go searching for evidence, so most of the actions we take are unnoticed. This is how it should be, so no one else has to be disturbed by it. There are still grey areas which leads to the community discussing whether something should be acceptable, but this doesn't mean no action is being taken meanwhile.

Pavel

Predictive @NewMainPosts: Do we need a tips post for every language?

Nathan Merrill

every language that people are interested in golfing in

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Running the Grand Hotel Introduction Some of you may have heard of Hilbert's Grand Hotel. The manager there has lost his list of where the guests are staying but he still has the order in which they checked in. Each guest can not stay in a room with a room number less than their value and if ...

muddyfish

4:34 PM

We should be aware that this is one of the most friendly places on the internet and be glad that the worst that we're getting is discussion on how to moderate noise. (I'm not trying to belittle the problem, it's just that there could be much bigger ones)

8

Pavel

Actually, dupe: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/52042/…

muddyfish

I for one am only here because of the generally friendly attitude our community has

Nathan Merrill

@DJMcMayhem man, that hammer seems unjustified on tips :P

DJMcMayhem

@muddyfish I'd absolutely agree. Come here for the code-golf, stay here for the people

AdmBorkBork

@trichoplax If that is indeed the case (and I'm obviously not a mod or RO, so I can't say for sure, but I'll believe you), my point still stands. What's the escalation point? Where does the kick for an hour turn into a kick for 10 days?

DJMcMayhem

4:38 PM

@NathanMerrill What can I say? It's a multi purpose tool. :P

Anonymous

@DJMcMayhem When all you have is a hammer...

Nathan Merrill

lol

muddyfish

@Mego #HighRepProblems

AdmBorkBork

@trichoplax Or, alternatively, what sort of communication exists between mods/ROs regarding kicks/suspensions? If someone is a (continuous) problem, and every mod/RO is acting independently with their own escalation plan, then that problematic person is around a lot longer than should be.

Business Cat

If in a language you could cast from a boolean to a char, what would you expect to happen?

Nevermind how unnecessary that may be...

New Main Posts

4:42 PM

0

Q: Tips for Golfing in TI-Basic (83, 84)

What tips and tricks do people know for golfing in TI-Basic? TI-Basic is a programming language built into many Texas Instruments graphing calculators. For this question, I am mainly referring to the variants on the TI-73 and TI-84 calculators. My tips: Try to use Ans as a temporary variable...

AdmBorkBork

@BusinessCat I would want it to go to ASCII 48 / 49

mınxomaτ

0/255

Anonymous

So, I'm going with 4 room owner positions for the election. Are there any objections to that?

Pavel

@BusinessCat NUL/0

Business Cat

How many are there now?

Anonymous

4:44 PM

@BusinessCat Technically 10. However, CJY is gone, Elendia stepped down, and Alex is rarely around. So really, 7.

Pavel

I would have gone with 3, but 4 is fine.

mınxomaτ

^

Anonymous

Why 3?

Anonymous

I'm fine with 3, but I'm curious why that specific number

Pavel

I guess I just like 10. It's a nice round number.

4 is fine

Nathan Merrill

4:47 PM

but 11 is prime

trichoplax

@AdmBorkBork Kicks within a single day scale from 1 minute to 5 minutes to 30 minutes, and exclude a user from just this room. Suspensions exclude a user from the entire SE chat network, and last for 30 minutes if automatic (sufficiently many users flagged). For moderator applied suspensions, the usual pattern is 7 days, then 30 days, then a year, although individual mods can choose any length they deem appropriate.

AdmBorkBork

We should elect π new ROs, to cover vacation time.

Business Cat

@Pavel Did you mean ASCII 0 and 48?

Nathan Merrill

@trichoplax El'endia mentioned that "trichoplax had an idea that could be an interesting experiment and it would allow a more general "topic" while enabling a greater degree of control over the environment."

I'm curious what that is, if that rings any bells

trichoplax

@AdmBorkBork That's a good point. As it happens, there is excellent communication between the mods and room owners so persistent disruptive behaviour is identified as such.

@NathanMerrill I'd seen your room invite, but I've been working through responses in order. I'll drop in now.

Nathan Merrill

4:51 PM

its fine :)

Anonymous

Alright who downvoted the nomination post ಠ_ಠ

Kritixi Lithos

@Mego What do we do with the answers once we get them?

New Meta Posts

5:07 PM

1

Q: New TNB Room Owners: Nominations Phase

It was decided by community consensus that we need more room owners for The Nineteenth Byte. The process for choosing the new room owners will be as follows: For one week (lasting until UTC midnight on January 28th), nominations will be accepted on this meta post. The votes on the nominations h...

discussion chat moderation

8

Gabriel Benamy

third time's the charm? @new sandbox posts please post my new idea soon

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Minimum exchange of bills code-golfcombinatorics You're at the supermarket, buying groceries for the week. At the end, the cashier rings up your cart and declares that your total cost is exactly $76. You reach into your wallet, and find a $50, four $20s, and a $1, for a total of six bills. W...

Gabriel Benamy

whoa...

ETHproductions

LOL

Kritixi Lithos

Myth Busted: GabrielBenamy is NewSandboxedPosts

I was thinking about nominating myself, but I don't want to be corrupted by the power of being an RO (look at what happened to Frodo, he went mad and crazy under the Ring's influence)

Gabriel Benamy

5:15 PM

any feedback would be appreciated ^^

ETHproductions

I can't get any Dash program working on TIO Nexus...

Kritixi Lithos

Do you want someone else to take on your role of being NewSandboxedPosts?

Gabriel Benamy

never

Nathan Merrill

@GabrielBenamy I'm pretty sure that its a duplicate

searching

ETHproductions

It reminds me of the "number of ways to create a certain amount given coin denominations" challenge, though it's probably not a dupe of that

This one

muddyfish

5:21 PM

@NewMetaPosts can we get this pinned and possibly featured?

Gabriel Benamy

I think it's sufficiently different, as it's also asking for subtraction, and a minimum covering

ETHproductions

Yeah, I haven't really inspected your challenge yet. That's just the first thing it reminded me of

ais523

I'd say it's related but not a duplicate

Gabriel Benamy

but is it a good challenge?

ais523

I'm not sure if it's the sort of challenge I'd try myself, but it seems interesting enough

Anonymous

5:31 PM

@muddyfish Featured probably won't happen while the Best Of competition is going on, since I think we can only have two featured meta questions at a time. Pinned would be nice.

Pavel

@BusinessCat yes.

Either ASCII 48 or 49 is probably good.

ais523

as far as I know, @NewMetaPosts isn't a room owner, so we'd need someone else to do the pinning

also, given that it's mostly a chat-internal thing, pinning it to chat makes more sense than pinning it to the site

Pavel

Should nomination posts be community wikis?

Anonymous

@Doorknob @MartinEnder @Dennis @trichoplax Could one of you pin the nomination post?

Anonymous

@Pavel What purpose would that serve?

Pavel

5:36 PM

I want to write up a nomination for someone, but I don't want to put in the effort of writing up "A short blurb about why the user is a good choice for becoming a room owner"

New Main Posts

3

Q: Write an Incident tokeniser

Background Incident is a fairly unusual programming language, in that its list of tokens is not predetermined, but rather inferred from the input. As such, tokenising an Incident program can be fairly difficult, especially if you want to do so efficiently. This task is about doing that yourself....

code-golf string parsing restricted-complexity

ais523

@Mego presumably to handle the situation in which a good user is given a bad nomination by a third party

Transcript for