English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

12:01

"A reasonable worry"? yes, that's a normal thing to say

I guess the elision of That is is typical in English converation

Cerberus

Hmm yes.

Same in Dutch.

Hmm while we were chatting about 1–2 cm of snow has fallen.

Hmm my tenses look odd.

Matt Эллен

looks alright to me

@Cerberus golly. Are you going to go out in it?

Cerberus

Hmm perhaps it's just the morning, then.

Matt Эллен

still getting used to it? :D

Cerberus

@MattЭллен I will have to wade through to the library eventually.

@MattЭллен It's just such an alien concept.

Like a square circle. It oughtn't exist.

Matt Эллен

12:08

I like the morning when there's sun. Dark mornings are not pleasant

@Cerberus so brave!

@Cerberus I suppose it would be more normal to say "While we were talking about 1-2cm of snow fell"

where's Robusto's chart?

by the looks of it, both work for your situation

Cerberus

12:24

@MattЭллен That does make a difference!

@MattЭллен Yeah...first I was just going to say "1–2cm of snow has fallen" to express that the result is what matters.

Robusto

@MattЭллен True. Also in conversation.

Matt Эллен

mistakes? me? nuver

Robusto

@Cerberus This is fine. You're putting the chatting in the past but noticing just now that it's been snowing and that an amount of snow has fallen. You could even say "has been falling."

Cerberus

@Robusto Hmm yes, that was probably how my mind worked.

"Has been falling" is probably a bit more modern, isn't it?

Robusto

Not really. Is the snow still falling?

Cerberus

12:36

Barely.

It has almost stopped.

I don't know: sometimes the continuous sounds a bit "newer" where both aspects are possible.

Robusto

Barely means yes.

Cerberus

Perhaps not in this case.

Matt Эллен

"Do you want to give me all your money?"
"Barely"

I see what you mean

Cerberus

@Robusto I can barely see it, but I think the occasional flake is still thrown at us by Zeus.

Now, see, I would almost say "is still being thrown", but I rejected that as "modern" subconsciously.

Robusto

@Cerberus We've had a nearly snowless winter so far.

Cerberus

12:39

@Robusto We've barely had any snow either/too!

Robusto

@Cerberus That is both wrong and perverse.

Cerberus

Call me what you will.

Robusto

I didn't call you anything. My characterization was of your statement, not you.

Cerberus

I was taught not to use the continuous where it is not really required.

I know, I was kidding.

Robusto

@Cerberus OK, now that is retarded.

@Cerberus But now that I think of it, you are both wrong and perverse as well.

Cerberus

12:41

I know.

Robusto

BTW, why don't you lay down some suppressing fire against The Purple Empire?

Cerberus

Why not indeed.

I was watching Frasier and noted how his accent is quite good.

Robusto

@Cerberus His accent sounds affected to many Americans, probably most. Kelsey Grammer is a terrific actor, though.

Cerberus

I guess that is what I prefer.

Turns I out don't have a problem with the rhotic r at all.

Robusto

That's a load off.

Cerberus

12:51

I know.

Kitḫ

Morning.

Matt Эллен

Hi!

Cerberus

Hi!

Wow, I saw an old-school Opollo/Pummie deck.

Lost to it too.

Kitḫ

Oh right! The war!

Cerberus

I wasn't much help.

4 v. 6.

Robusto

12:54

@Cerberus I remember when that was new-school.

Cerberus

I know!

Opollo, at least.

I think Pummies have always been there.

At least they were by the time the faction started facing decent opponents.

Which was—I don't know.

Matt Эллен

just after Napoleon invaded?

Kitḫ

I remember Napoleon. Cute little fellow.

Matt Эллен

U dihent!

Kitḫ

But very French if you know what I mean.

Matt Эллен

12:59

OMG, but what about Josephine?

Kitḫ

No, I did not actually have sexual relations with him.

Robusto

Matt Эллен

oh

Robusto

@Kitḫ This is the Napoleon you remember.

Kitḫ

Josie liked the rough stuff.

user19161

12:59

-5

Q: Does "God's gift" mean "God is gift"?

What is the difference between God's gift and God is gift? It seems the latter is awkward.

user19161

GR

Kitḫ

So I indulged her.

Matt Эллен

:D

Kitḫ

@Robusto Huh. Taller than I remember.

Cerberus

Haha.

Kitḫ

13:04

Now you'd think a leader like Napoleon would be all into the BDSM shit, but he was actually kind of a wuss.

Robusto

But he did have a Napoleon complex. He thought he was Napoleon.

Matt Эллен

all mouth, no trousers, eh?

Kitḫ

You can tell because he invaded Russia in the winter.

user19161

@robusto I saw your chat login problem. Did you try this? Log in to ELU, go to english.stackexchange.com/users/chat-stackexchange-login, and login from there without having to key in anything.

Kitḫ

OK, to be fair, it wasn't winter.

Cerberus

13:05

He was too late anyway.

Kitḫ

But what kind of idiot invades Russia? Seriously.

Robusto

@Kitḫ It was winter in the sense that it was summer.

Cerberus

He might have been successful if he had started in spring, and if he had actually had a plan after taking Moscow.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus He was too distracted by my relations with Josie.

Cerberus

In a good way, I presume?

Matt Эллен

13:08

"What? Yes, yes, invade Russia. Can't you see I'm busy?"

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Exactly.

@Cerberus Not like you'd think. I mean, here I am, hanging out with his wife while he's away for months...

Matt Эллен

Enjoy your war! toodles

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Oh, during the campaign.

@MattЭллен I'm sure it actually went like that.

Politics.

Robusto

@WillHunting Voila. Thanks, @will.

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Bye!

Robusto

13:11

Enter that as the answer and I will accept it.

Cerberus

Oh, he's gone!

cries

user19161

@Cerberus No crying in chat!

user19161

@MattЭллен I just had noodles.

user19161

@Kitḫ I used to like a Josie too. She was the most beautiful girl I have ever seen.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus There, there.

I'm sure he'll come back.

Cerberus

13:18

pouts

Robusto

Pouting French cows say moue.

user19161

It's so strange. One of my friend's girlfriend slept with another friend of mine.

Robusto

@WillHunting You misspelled "not surprising."

Kitḫ

@Reg I will level up imminently. Should I wait, or spend it on this war?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ Wait another 40 minutes if you can. Then we'll decide if we will snipe or kick off an active war.

Kitḫ

13:30

OK. Will do.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

In other news, why is this still open?

-1

Q: Is jargon proper English?

Examples: Database Performant Hyperlink Are these correct usages of English, or not, and why?

jargon portmanteau-words

Robusto

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's utter nonsense. Just look at the tags. (>_<)

Robusto

My picture? I think you mean udder nonsense.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You are very funny today.

Kitḫ

13:34

Agh!

Forgot about very important visitor in 30 minutes!

Gotta go. Later!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Wrong tense. "In 30 minutes" refers to the future, so you must use the future tense.

"I will forget about very important visitor in 30 minutes!"

Repeat after me.

Cerberus

@Robusto Are those French cows, or just dissatisfied Americans?

Robusto

@Cerberus They're speaking French, can't you see?

Cerberus

@Robusto They might be speaking English.

Robusto

Check the accent.

Cerberus

13:39

But I'm glad we agree on the distinguishing characteristics.

@Robusto It's hard to hear.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto There's no accent, only a period.

That line under U is not an accent.

Cerberus

Perhaps it is modern, "fun" Twitteresque spelling?

Robusto

Well, there are some trees in the background. That is an accent grove.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And so you hear me accent groan.

Cerberus

moans

Matt Эллен

13:54

Parked my car. Phew!

Robusto

New question for ELU: Is "Parked my car" grammatical? How about "Phew!"

Matt Эллен

600 up votes for you!

Robusto

Answer: "Phew is definitely grammatical, as in 'Many are called, but phew are chosen.'"

Matt Эллен

views are mostly in your favour, there is some conflict over puns as answers. +10 -5

Robusto

Many are called but views are chosen.

Or, as the French cows say, "Manet is called, but plus c'est la même chose."

RegDwight Ѭſ道

14:01

@Robusto "Phew" is a portmanteau, and thus a jargonic tense.

And we all know that tenses are grammatical.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 Not a pair of prosdokians?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

No, not a pair. Seven.

Bah, boring Friday meeting. BRB

Robusto

Oh, seven. Then we're talking about Kardashians.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Congrats!!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus thanks :) it was only moderately stressful

duplicated:

1

Q: 24 hour time. How to say it?

Which words can be used to say time in 24 hour format? If, for instance, for 4:00 one might say "four o'clock", is it also correct to say "sixteen o'clock" for 16:00? Is it different for a casual conversation and for a presentation of some kind? It is also probably different for US and UK, and ma...

time

Robusto

14:04

Where's the original?

Matt Эллен

5

Q: How should one say times aloud in 24-hour notation?

A couple years ago, I switched all my personal clocks 24-hour notation. I live in the US, and 24-hour time is used very, very rarely. So, I haven't been able to listen to anyone say times aloud. Here's my question: What is the proper way to say a time aloud in 24-hour notation? "Fifteen o'clock...

speech time

Cerberus

Voted.

Matt Эллен

I say 16 o'clock

but then I dislike it when people say 16 hundred hours, to mean 16 o'clock

@Cerberus yay!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

Q: What are some expressions that can be used to wish the wedding couple?

To wish the wedding couple we can use the expressions like, Happy Wedding Day! Congratulation! Best Wishes! What is the best way to wish the wedding couple? Add your own expression to the list!.

expressions formality list-request valediction

Writers or close.

Matt Эллен

should have vote not constructive, dash it all

Kitḫ

14:23

I AM SO AWESOME!!!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Weren't you supposed to be forgetting a customer right now?

Cerberus

@Kitḫ You've had sexual relations with your VIP?

Kitḫ

I already met with him.

@Cerberus By the time I was done with him, he was so dazzled, he might have gone straight.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ Then you may go level up, soldier.

Cerberus

Whereas beforehand...?

Kitḫ

14:27

Oh! Ahahahaha! I'll tell you in a moment.

Cerberus

Hmminteresting...

(Is it weird to wear double socks?)

Kitḫ

@Cerberus No.

Cerberus

Good.

Kitḫ

So the VIP was a state rep who is responsible for being impressed with us so he will vote to give us money.

Cerberus

Oh!

Kitḫ

14:30

The big boss introduced him to me before he introduced him to my project lead.

giggle

Cerberus

You work for a school-like organization, right?

@Kitḫ Haha the ultimate triumph!

Kitḫ

So I heard him saying "The project is Kit's baby, but B was the one who came up with the idea." Or something like that. When he was introducing the project lead.

LOLFCOPTER

Cerberus

Making it sound like you did all the work.

Which you probably did.

Kitḫ

And that I am the brilliant one.

Mahnax

Very nice.

Kitḫ

14:32

Who came up with the flexible design that will allow us to expand the system to include all sorts of data.

Cerberus

Yay!

Kitḫ

Yay! And the rep was impressed with me first, so the project lead is just going to look like a hanger on.

Cerberus

Did the boss point to the screen to thank Mrs H. and Matt for debugging and the rest of us for moral support?

Mahnax

Shh, we're behind-the-scenes helpers.

Kitḫ

Uh. No. I had to hide them.

Cerberus

14:33

Hehe.

Next time I'll post an html chat bomb that plays a funny sound.

Kitḫ

I actually closed you out.

Mahnax

0

A: What is the noun for 'self-evident' or 'obvious'?

Answer to your question: Super

How......?

Cerberus

Aww.

Mahnax

I need to downvote two answers so as to achieve reputation that is evenly divisible by 10.

School, bye!

Kitḫ

I just heard the big boss deflect the project lead. Apparently, he's not so politically smooth as he'd like us to think.

Hmm. The rep suggested a coffee date to the project lead. I wonder if he mentioned that he invited me to come down and testify for the legislature?

0

Q: Future tense in conditional clauses

All the textbooks I have ever come across during the course of my studying English emphasize that future tense should not be used in conditional clauses. For example, If it rains in the evening, we will not go for a walk. (if it will rain in the evening...) We decided to go for a walk i...

grammar future-tense conditional tenses

Can somebody please do something about this? I am sure it is a dupe, but I can't find it.

And I am busy resting on my laurel.

Robusto

15:02

@Kit: People don't realize what a bad effect on morale it is to have team leads try to grab all the credit.

31

A: How does one become a leader in a team of programmers?

The best team leaders I've seen have all been dynamite programmers. But they've all had several other qualities, which are harder to define: wisdom, good judgment, good people skills (friendly and pleasant but not a pushover), dedication, commitment, and — most important of all — knowing how to g...

Read my 2nd paragraph there, about the glory hounds.

Kitḫ

...Are you saying I'm a glory hound?

user19161

@Mahnax Be careful, I see signs that you are becoming a lunatic!

Kitḫ

There's nothing luniacal about wanting pretty numbers!

user19161

@Kitḫ Not a glory hound but a shiny fox!

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Hah, you're testifying, even though he is the "lead"?

Robusto

15:15

@Kitḫ No. I thought your point was that the team lead was getting undeserved credit.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Well, he invited me. The big boss might decide to send the project lead instead.

@Robusto Oh I see. You were agreeing with me.

Cerberus

Huh, but if it is you who has been invited...

Kitḫ

Is it too early for lunch? I am hungry.

Robusto

@Kitḫ Odd as that sounds, but yes.

Cerberus

I got my favourite bread and my favourite pea soup.

user19161

15:18

@Kitḫ You may have brunch now.

Cerberus

I'm a happy man.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Well, I can't just pop down to the state house and present stuff.

Cerberus

Hmm.

user19161

@Cerberus Very good.

Cerberus

Yeah!

Matt Эллен

15:19

great news @Kit :D

Kitḫ

Thanks!

Cerberus

Hey, if it isn't Otto!

Kitḫ

Oh, and he mentioned that he had read and appreciated my recent op-ed! Right in front of my big boss!

Cerberus

Although I doubt whether Otto is cognate to Otavio.

@Kitḫ Haha wow! Your publicity campaign was aptly timed.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Why not?

Cerberus

15:20

I suspect Otto is Germanic.

Otavio is Latin: octavus = something like "eighth".

Kitḫ

Well, yeah, but both are eight-ish things right?

Otavio Macedo

@Cerberus that's right

Cerberus

> Otto is a given name of Germanic origin meaning wealthy.

Kitḫ

scratches head

Cerberus

@OtavioMacedo nods

Robusto

15:22

I wonder if Otto is related to Otho, linguistically speaking.

Cerberus

No doubt.

Oh, wait.

user19161

There is also ortho in orthogonal.

Cerberus

You mean Etruscan Otho.

Kitḫ

But...but...there is some counting somewhere with "otto" as "eight" right?

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Italian.

Kitḫ

15:24

Well, then what's wrong with calling Octavio "Otto"?

Is it because you are inverting him?

user19161

Or you can call him Octo.

user19161

Note that Octavius is the evil guy in Spiderman.

Robusto

@Cerberus Not sure. The emperor who was defeated by Vitellius is who I mean.

He ruled Rome for, like, three months.

Kitḫ

@WillHunting Otto Octavius, actually. And technically, he's not the bad guy.

Otavio Macedo

@WillHunting yes, because he's an octopus!

heheh

Matt Эллен

15:25

guess the map:

oh wait, it has its name on it

Kitḫ

Evil Federated Empire of Europe!

Cerberus

@Robusto Yes, I believe that is an Etruscan name. But Otho was often an alternative spelling of Otto in later times.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ ding!

Kitḫ

Wahoo!

user19161

0

Q: What English words have two consecutive v's in them?

What English words have two consecutive v's in them? For example, savvy.

spelling

Cerberus

15:27

@Kitḫ If he doesn't mind...but the Italian word is not a name.

user19161

Not constructive question.

Matt Эллен

aye, Jasper

user19161

But I shan't downvote him since he looks so cute.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Hah I know that one, and I'm not surprised at your outlook. There are maps for other countries too.

MetaEd

0

Q: The first and most well-known example is/are the reserves in the United States

Should the verb be is or are? I would say 'are', but a colleague says 'is'.

grammar verbs grammatical-number

This is a duplicate question.

Matt Эллен

15:29

@Cerberus really :D I only just saw it on FB

It's quite funny

Robusto

@Cerberus: Also, I'm wondering if our words cloth and luck are related to Clotho and Lachesis, two of the Greek fates (the first being the "spinner" and the second being the drawer of lots). It seems plausible, but I may be creating my own folk etymology here.

Matt Эллен

I especially like how Finland is just mobiles. I'm surprised Sweden isn't furniture

Kitḫ

I love Sweden.

Maybe I should learn Swedish.

Cerberus

@Robusto You may be right!

Robusto

France should have received the trashy pop music award.

Matt Эллен

15:31

@kit do you read Scandinavia and the World?

Kitḫ

Aha! I found the calculation error!

user19161

@MattЭллен I do not like Ericsson phones but I love Ikea furniture.

Cerberus

Green lanchanô = to acquire by luck, aorist lach-!

Matt Эллен

yay!

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Ah, no.

Matt Эллен

15:31

@Kitḫ satwcomic.com

Kitḫ

Now for some taco salad, then repairing it.

Matt Эллен

quite funny

Cerberus

As to cloth, Germanic should kled-/kleid-, which doesn't remind me of any Greek word.

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен Oh right! Yes, you have posted some here before, right?

Robusto

@Reg: I have a level-up coming. Think I should focus on Serenity, or is that a non-starter?

user19161

15:32

I think Ikea should be the only furniture shop in the world. It rules.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ I think Mahnax has. I might have though

Kitḫ

Must...have...taco...salad...b...r...b...

Matt Эллен

cya!

user19161

And the Swedish meatballs at Ikea are delicious too.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto We might or might not have a chance, but we have no other choice than try and fight them cuz there's nothing left to do in the next five hours.

Robusto

15:33

k

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Or should I say, the next 3½ hours. Cuz then we can reevaluate and go on regen for the next war.

Gah, just noticed Lauren's edit here: english.stackexchange.com/posts/8545/revisions

Bad Lauren, bad.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I will handle that.

user19161

Re-editing now.

user19161

Oh you have done it already.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 Well, if I wait too long I don't get the full benefit of the level-up. But whatever.

user19161

15:37

But I will re-edit to make title and body shorter.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto I'm not sure I'm following.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 My bars fill up if I wait. Ergo, I don't get that big rush of staminae's and energae's when I level.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yes, but I did not say you should wait, quite the opposite.

In fact I myself am spending on Serenity right now, little as I have.

Cerberus

@Rob: The etymology of cloth is uncertain beyond the Proto-Germanic root, and that of Clotho is unknown.

Robusto

OK. Your clarification threw me off a little. I'm focusing on building an app in my spare time here.

Cerberus

15:44

So they are probably not related.

MetaEd

General reference:

1

Q: Someone who walks on a tightrope

Is there a single word or concise phrase for someone who walks on a tightrope?

single-word-requests

Matt Эллен

lol

Cerberus

It's usually the other way around.

Matt Эллен

single-word-requests Someone who walks

at least they got the tag right

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Johnny!

Red Label.

Matt Эллен

15:46

tightrope Johnny

user19161

@MattЭллен At least or at last?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Lest you last at least...

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting all of them, all the time

MetaEd

I love getting to quote one of my favorite books:

user19161

4

Q: Why are these questions about percentages closed?

I came across two very similar questions that were closed as "not a real question": Another word for "fraction" that fits in conversation like "percent"? Term for measuring in fractions of 1 They seem perfectly valid to me, and nico's answer is correct. The word they are ...

discussion close-reasons closed-questions

MetaEd

15:47

Mistress Masham's Repose

Damn. What's the trick to posting a link here that won't get massacred by the parser?

user19161

There is an interesting discussion on that meta question now which you may wish to participate.

MetaEd

Half the time my links get broken in the middle.

Matt Эллен

@MetaEd [link text](url)

user19161

@MetaEd Use a link shortener.

user19161

But I've never used one and I still don't quite understand how they work.

MetaEd

15:49

@Matt I swear the markdown doesn't always work. But this time it did.

Cerberus

@MetaEd You can use backticks to mark it as code: then at least people can copy-paste.

Matt Эллен

@MetaEd hmmm, next time it fails, you should log a bug

MetaEd

A link shortener creates a browser redirect from a third-party site to the original link.

Cerberus

Or simply drag the link up, if they have a nice browser.

MetaEd

Great book, anyway.

user19161

15:51

@MetaEd QED.

MetaEd

Quoted here:

3

A: Etymology of "crossgrained" (perverse, untractable)

The primary definition from the same source explains the metaphorical use as shown in the secondary. "Having the grain or fibers run diagonally, or more or less transversely and irregularly, so as to interfere with splitting or planing." "If the stuff proves crossgrained, . . . then ...

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

Q: What's your first impression of "in front of the TV"?

If you saw the phrase in front of the TV, what kind of impression will you get? To me, I will suppose someone is watching TV. But if so, how do you express the meaning that someone is just in front of the TV (talking about the position)?

meaning

The edits have invalidated all comments and answers. Great job folks.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 This is an important distinction that scholars will debate for centuries.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I liked the last edit where the strikeout was removed. I agree that there is no need to type things like strikeouts or "edit:" unless really necessary.

user19161

The worst kind of question is the one which changes meaning after OP edits it a million times until all the answers look stupid.

Robusto

15:58

@WillHunting — I like to call out an edit when it adds important information or references information that wasn't available at the time of the first posting.

user19161

What is A? A is X. After edit, question becomes What is B?

user19161

Then people see the answer A is X and say WTF!

Matt Эллен

What is Will Hunting?

user19161

@MattЭллен It is the search for willpower.

Cerberus

1

Q: Future tense in conditional clauses

All the textbooks I have ever come across during the course of my studying English emphasize that future tense should not be used in conditional clauses. For example, If it rains in the evening, we will not go for a walk. (if it will rain in the evening...) We decided to go for a walk i...

grammar future-tense conditional tenses

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…