English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Matt Эллен

10:00

"windows? this is a window? Why's it got stickers all over it?"

"No. I think it's some kind of typewriter. Look, we've got all these typewriter keys"

Cerberus

Haha.

Perhaps you are overestimating their computer skills.

Matt Эллен

How so? :)

Cerberus

Well, do you really think they would be able to turn it on?

Or do you think they stumbled upon a computer in a library?

Matt Эллен

Haha :D maybe they've thrown some children off one

Cerberus

I remember the first time my mother was going to "work" on a computer. She sat down, then asked, "now what?".

Matt Эллен

10:09

Awwww, lol

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Haha, is that what they usually do?

@MattЭллен She didn't even consider turning it on.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Not that I've ever seen. But in my mind, yes

@Cerberus maybe "they" should install on-buttons in computer seats

Cerberus

Ah, on-buttons.

I misparsed three times before I got it!

Matt Эллен

ooop! sorry.

Cerberus

But very good idea.

You know, my mother still can't get over the fact that she has to press the Start button to shut down.

user19161

10:12

@MattЭллен Certainly not.

Cerberus

Morning!

I mean, afternoon!

Matt Эллен

huh? @WillHunting

it's morning for GMT @cerb, so it's morning for everyone :D

user19161

@MattЭллен That God's gift is not the same as God is gift.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting oh! well, quite :)

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Right! Of course.

Centre of the world.

user19161

10:13

@Cerberus Do you need to? Isn't there a shut down to click on?

Cerberus

@WillHunting Nope.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus it is better in Win7, there's no start button

user19161

I have to say I am actually getting used to the stupid Unity shell.

Matt Эллен

and only two clicks to shut down

user19161

Perhaps Mark Shuttleworth is a man of great vision after all.

Cerberus

10:14

@MattЭллен Oh God, I know what she's going to say. "Why have they removed the start button? Now what do I do?"

Matt Эллен

1. on the "windows" button,
2. on shut down.

user19161

@MattЭллен What do you mean?

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting they've renamed it to, well, the windows logo

so it's not "start" anymore

user19161

Someone made the observation that Windows 7 is a lot like GNOME shell. More clicks to get things done and useful buttons missing.

Matt Эллен

now that keyboards have Windows keys in them, it's easy to figure out

Cerberus

10:16

@WillHunting Really? What buttons are missing?

user19161

Windows+D=show desktop.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting I would say that there are fewer clicks to get things done, in comparison to XP

I can't think of any buttons I miss

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Like when?

user19161

@Cerberus The Shutdown button! There are workarounds though!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, shutting down for one. application switching is easier too

Cerberus

10:17

@WillHunting Well, I don't have one either. Start > Shutdown.

@MattЭллен Hmm I've been using this program called Vista Switcher for ages.

user19161

For now, I announce that I am sticking to Ubuntu LTS forever.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus does it give you the preview frames?

Cerberus

Yes.

user19161

Note that for now can be used with forever.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus cool

user19161

10:19

It is too frequent to upgrade every 6 months. Once every 2 years for LTS is good.

Matt Эллен

yeah. I'm not looking forward to win8. it's too soon for me to pay for a new OS

I'm not bored of win7, yet!

user19161

Yes we should not use pirated Windows.

Matt Эллен

but I suppose MS feel like they need to compete with the upgrade cycles of the various Linux distros

silly really

user19161

The problem with Debian is that the Iceweasel doesn't work quite as well as pure Firefox and it ships with missing firmware by default. The problem with Mint is that the default update does not work the same as that in Ubuntu or Debian.

user19161

So Ubuntu, you won me back! Yay!

Cerberus

10:22

@MattЭллен Hmm but it only shows previews if the windows are not minimized. Otherwise it's just number, window title, icon.

user19161

@MattЭллен They say three years is their plan now.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Also the run box in 7 actually finds the programme, rather than giving up if it's not in the path

user19161

@MattЭллен Win 8 comes with built-in PDF viewer, software store and can be carried on live USB.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ah OK.

Matt Эллен

Well, 3 years is ok for rich people.

Cerberus

10:24

Well, I only use that for a few things anyway.

(I think my position in the upgrades debate is known.)

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus still, not bad. 7 does do the preview for all windows, even games, I think

user19161

But I must say Ubuntu has contributed much on its own: Ubuntu One, Ask Ubuntu, Unity shell, safe release upgrades, software centre, free CDs in the past, a very long LTS version, fixed release dates.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Oh, that's cool. I suppose it doesn't cost as much memory/CPU if it's native.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus yeah, I don't notice any lag

I'll be saying goodbye to XP for good, soon. my work PC is getting upgraded :D

Cerberus

Aww.

Matt Эллен

10:27

no more waiting 15 minutes for Visual Studio to load!

Cerberus

You don't have programs that you need which won't work (as well) under 7?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, I might have to keep a VM of it, for testing purposes. I'm not sure if we're going to be supporting XP

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Now that sounds like a good reason.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus no, thankfully

at least, I hope not!

Cerberus

Good.

You'll soon find out then, hehe.

Matt Эллен

10:28

:D

the new box is apparently arriving on the 20th

Cerberus

Oh, an entire computer!

That's nice.

Matt Эллен

yeah! I guess I could keep XP, but I do like 7 better

Cerberus

Sure.

If you're not hooked on XP for some reason, and you get 7 for free, why not?

Matt Эллен

It'll be like a late birthday present from work :D

@Cerberus quite!

user19161

@MattЭллен You should tell them to wait till 8.

Cerberus

10:30

Oh, when was your birthday?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus it'll be a week on Sunday

Cerberus

I think 8 will suck.

@MattЭллен Ohh was it last Sunday??

Matt Эллен

I think 8 will be innovative for tablets, but not offer anythig for desktops

@Cerberus no, next!

Cerberus

Oh!

Matt Эллен

my birthday is a week on Sunday

Cerberus

10:31

Ah, got it.

I sort of subconsciously thought you meant January the 20th, and that it was still before that date.

Mornings...

Matt Эллен

I know! I'm not the most articulate this early in the day

Cerberus

Hmm now we must think about presents.

user19161

@Cerberus The usual three.

Matt Эллен

oh dear no! I'll be 31, it's hardly a mile stone :)

Cerberus

@WillHunting Oh?

user19161

10:33

@Cerberus Guess?

Cerberus

We'll try to think of something.

@WillHunting I think I'm missing a reference here!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus up votes :)

user19161

@Cerberus Upvotes.

Cerberus

Heh.

user19161

Jinx.

Matt Эллен

10:34

jinx!

Cerberus

Mayhaps!

Matt Эллен

meta-jinx!

user19161

I am still trying to figure out who gave me 10 upvotes that time, though they were removed automatically.

Matt Эллен

not that I want up vote for my birthday (nice as they are), just that that's what Will means by presents

Cerberus

Noted.

Oh God, it's snowing.

Matt Эллен

10:35

0_O

user19161

@Cerberus Lovely.

Matt Эллен

good luck, demon dog, I hope you're not snowed in!

user19161

@MattЭллен Why is one eye bigger than the other?

Cerberus

The flakes are not very dense (yet), but I see thin layer on the sidewalk.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting it's medical condition. ;p

Cerberus

10:36

@MattЭллен Then I'll have to eat up all the food in the house. Hmm...

I could start just in case?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus the inside of my car was frosted up this morning

Cerberus

@MattЭллен No! That is bad, bad.

user19161

4 more days and I can change my user name, back to myself I guess.

Cerberus

slaps winter in the face

You brute!

Matt Эллен

I was scraping the windscreen thinking "this isn't making much difference..."

@Cerberus so gallant, kind sir

Cerberus

10:38

It was a pleasure.

But the forecast said rain, so I guess snow is better.

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting Or something else! Maybe JLo :D

@Cerberus less wet, that's for sure

user19161

@MattЭллен Though everyone has started calling me Will!

Cerberus

Arg they've changed the weather! Now it's -10 until Tuesday.

@WillHunting Never!

user19161

Maybe I am Will Turner from Pirates of the Caribbean!

Matt Эллен

@WillHunting I was in two minds just now. I almost said Jasper

user19161

10:40

@MattЭллен Aye, the Americans would use of two minds instead of in.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus no! wrap warm. Does Hades keep a fire going?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен He does, but it's too far down.

Matt Эллен

Maybe get him to turn it up a bit?

I mean, he surely doesn't want you to freeze! Who would stop the souls getting out, if you're shivering in the corner?

Cerberus

People never listen.

Matt Эллен

true,true

Cerberus

10:47

I told him this.

Matt Эллен

typical poor worker management

Cerberus

Thank you!

Matt Эллен

he needs to learn to invest in his employees to encourage them to grow within their roles!

Cerberus

I'm considering whether I shall get back to bed and try to sleep, or go do things first and take a late afternoon nap.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. tough choice

Cerberus

10:49

@MattЭллен Argg now the management speak is getting out of hand.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus hehehe, sorry, I got carried away :D

Cerberus

The snow doesn't look very appealing; but I won't have to go far, and I don't feel sleepy.

Matt Эллен

sounds like a late afternoon nap would make more sense

Cerberus

@MattЭллен You're turning into @Aedia, with her "let's consider a committee that is to set up a meeting regarding the formation of a session about...".

@MattЭллен I guess you're right!

I've already cleaned up and sorted out my Documents folder, today (first time since 2003-ish).

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, we need these committees, otherwise how will we know how to think about how to make decisions?

@Cerberus :O although, I don't know when I last organised mine

Cerberus

10:53

@MattЭллен I suppose she and you are right, but...I find all this too decisive. I must ponder the implication of such committees first.

@MattЭллен Yeah, well, the only reason I did it is because of on-line backups.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus best to form a committee to decide a schedule for pondering the implications

Cerberus

I don't want to back up unnecessary files.

@MattЭллен Very good idea! I guess. Or perhaps we should ask Aedia first so that she may set up a draft proposal...

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus yeah! I accidentally backed up a whole bunch of stuff twice because I selected the wrong options

@Cerberus excellent choice.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Whom do you trust your belongings with?

I have used Idrive for a few years now.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I have an external HDD that I give to friend if I'm going on holiday :)

Cerberus

10:57

@MattЭллен Ah, good.

But no on-line back-ups?

One can eke out 12 GB of free space at Idrive.

Matt Эллен

no, nothing like that.

Cerberus

Or 15, actually.

Why not?

Do you not trust 'them'?

Matt Эллен

just never seemed necessary

Cerberus

It's easy and automatic.

Matt Эллен

yeah, I'd be uneasy with all my data exposed to the cloud

Cerberus

10:58

Do you use Dropbox?

Matt Эллен

yes, but I've only photos on that

and they're not even my photos!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен You could put it on a Truecrypt thingie first, so that they could never open it.

Hmm.

Matt Эллен

oh, and recordings of my band

Cerberus

Ah!

Matt Эллен

but that's all backed up on my external HDD

Cerberus

10:59

Have you heard of these programs that let you and a friend swap back-up space on line?

Matt Эллен

and with other people

@Cerberus no. sounds interesting. tell me more!

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Two people install this program and assign space for the other person. Then the program automatically backs up selected folders from one person to the other person's computer on a schedule.

Of course it is encrypted first.

So he won't be able to access your stash.

Matt Эллен

Oh! so similar to dropbox

but with encryption

and no online storage

Cerberus

And unlimited.

Matt Эллен

so nothing like dropbox...

Cerberus

11:02

And you each have separate folders that the other person cannot see.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. I shall see if I can find a partner for such an operation

Cerberus

So you could buy a hard drive for your friend and have him back up 1000 GB permanently (I presume differential back-ups are possible).

Matt Эллен

it's quite a nice idea

Cerberus

If you provide him with the extra space he will need, how could he refuse?

Matt Эллен

quite!

Cerberus

11:04

@MattЭллен Yeah. The only thing is that it is sort of out of your control.

I mean, what if he messes up his hard drive?

I presume you can check whether your files are safe at any given time.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, so's anything that's not on my own box. and even then, what with how windows works

Cerberus

Hmm what do you mean about Windows?

Matt Эллен

well, MS can force updates onto your computer, so there's no telling what they might mess up

Cerberus

Oh, can they?

Matt Эллен

yeah

at least I think so

Cerberus

11:05

How? I have updates turned off.

Hey, did you star me?

Matt Эллен

hmmm. I'm not sure but I think they could if they had to

@Cerberus not I

Cerberus

Or is it some anonymous, ironic star?

Matt Эллен

they probably don't in your case

Cerberus

They can't or they won't?

Matt Эллен

won't

Cerberus

11:07

OK.

I really hate it when some company can do things to my system.

Matt Эллен

aye

Cerberus

Such as when Amazon accidentally deleted a certain e-book from all Kindles all over the world.

Or was it Amazon?

Matt Эллен

oh, they did. on purpose I believe

1984

Cerberus

Yeah!

Scary.

Matt Эллен

indeed

Cerberus

11:09

At least Google is careful with changing things in Gmail or such, unlike Facebook.

Matt Эллен

that's why I stay away from kindle

Cerberus

Wise. But don't other e-book sellers have that same ability?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus haha, yeah FB is totally gungho about changing things willy-nilly

@Cerberus possibly, I still don't have one. I'm looking for one where I'm sure they can't do that

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yeah. I logged in yesterday, and the entire layout had changed again.

I can never find anything.

Matt Эллен

Really? what had changed?

I didn't notice anything

Cerberus

11:11

@MattЭллен Hmm but do those even exist? (I personally don't see the advantage yet, since I can read paper books for free from the library, and I don't want to have to walk around with an expensive, vulnerable, large piece of equipment).

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus The advantage for me is that I like having my text books all together in a lightweight format. I don't know if such a reader exists

Cerberus

This layout is new to me.

(Looking at a friend's page.)

@MattЭллен Hmm understandable. And all your textbooks are available digitally?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus ah, the timeline layout. I've decided to keep mine normal for the time being. timeline doesn't appeal to me

Cerberus

OK.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus probably. I haven't checked. even if it's only half, that would be a great space saving

Cerberus

11:17

I had no idea.

@MattЭллен I suppose that makes sense.

And you don't need only certain pages from those textbooks?

(In which case I'd make photocopies.)

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus I have no particular purpose for them, so their entire contents is important! ;)

Cerberus

Haha, eh...

Matt Эллен

for example I've been dipping into various parts of my neuropsychology books recently. Looking at vision and action, and separately the neurology of writing

although I've only found things about the neurology of reading written text

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Oh! Interesting.

Matt Эллен

which is somewhat frustrating

@Cerberus indeed! although I can't remember it off hand :D

Cerberus

11:23

Hmm that would be quite different.

I suddenly found myself watching an episode of Frasier.

Through some Facebook link.

Matt Эллен

:D

which one?

Cerberus

►

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus i've been looking into it for this question:

24

Q: Does writing something down help memorize it?

This is a question inspired by this recent question on the Chinese Language & Usage website. Someone asked why they needed to learn how to write Chinese characters, since today we mostly use computers or text messages to do so. Several users replied that writing Chinese characters help remem...

Cerberus

Actually I don't know what it is about yet, the episode. I like Frasier, but I don't know the show too well.

Matt Эллен

heh. I don't know if I've seen that one.

it was very popular over here for ages

Cerberus

11:26

@MattЭллен Interesting.

I would say writing does help.

Because you spend time and effort doing it.

@MattЭллен Yeah I love their irony.

And it is about the only American accent that I like.

That of Frasier and Niles, I mean.

Matt Эллен

It's quite upper class American, the accent.

That they enunciate well makes it nice to listen to

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Perhaps that's it, hehe.

Then again, upper-class British or Dutch don't articulate particularly well.

Matt Эллен

Yeah, our toffs are very in-group when it comes to pronunciation.

they don't try to make it easy for the rest of us :D

Cerberus

Toffs, haha.

The drool is dying out here.

The drool that happens at the end of words.

Vestiges remain among the younger generation.

Matt Эллен

drool, as in they drip saliva at the ends of words?

Cerberus

11:38

When you pronounce the syllables after the accented one in a sloppy manner—at least I've heard that called a drool somewhere.

It is supposedly accompanied by drool.

Matt Эллен

I see

Cerberus

If you say "LA-boratory" as "La-fuzzy sound", some saliva may escape, hehe.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus hahaha. Yeah same for ours.

Cerberus

Hmm don't Americans do that at all?

Matt Эллен

maybe

Cerberus

11:46

They should be waking up by now.

Matt Эллен

almost 7am

for them

Cerberus

If they want to get to work by 8.30. I'm assuming the typical American cummute of 60 minutes.

Matt Эллен

(commute)

yeah, I get up at 06:30 so I can get in for 08:00

I mostly make it too!

Cerberus

Oops!

Wow, that's early.

Do you really need to be there at 8, or is it to avoid traffic?

Matt Эллен

yeah, to avoid traffic and to increase the chance I have a parking spot when I get home :)

Cerberus

11:53

Oh God, the Problem.

Matt Эллен

quite. I was thinking of cycling in, but I was worried I'd freeze to death

Cerberus

A reasonable worry.

Can one say that?

Matt Эллен

say what?

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…