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12:20 AM
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2 hours later…
2:19 AM
5 hours later…
6:52 AM
A case of bad breqn ?  the way it looks is  not good, I think the B)^-1 should remain on the top line


K_{N-2}   =-\left(  B^{T}QB+R+B^{T}\left(  A^{T}Q\left[  Q^{-1}-B\Phi
^{-1}B^{T}\right]  QA\right)  B\right)  ^{-1}\left(  B^{T}QA+B^{T}\left(
A^{T}Q\left[  Q^{-1}-B\Phi^{-1}B^{T}\right]  QA\right)  A\right)
@Nasser It's mainly abuse of \left and \right
@Nasser They just do harm, in this particular case.
@egreg but removing the \left and \right, makes it not look good?
@Nasser OTOH, I get different output
K_{N-2}   =-(  B^{T}QB+R+B^{T}(  A^{T}Q[  Q^{-1}-B\Phi
^{-1}B^{T}]  QA)  B)  ^{-1}(  B^{T}QA+B^{T}(
A^{T}Q[  Q^{-1}-B\Phi^{-1}B^{T}]  QA)  A)
@Nasser With your example, I get the same as in the second picture (except for the size of the delimiters).
7:04 AM
I am on windows now, not Linux. MikTex
I can try it on TL on linux to see if it is different.
@Nasser Anyway, you can see quite well what are the limitations of breqn: a human typesetter will know that the break should go after ^{-1}, with the insertion of a multiplication symbol.
@egreg sure. I am sure this is not easy to get right all the time. Still I like breqn and use it all the time to break long equations automatically.
@JosephWright Is that what i think it is? discuzfeed.com/texlatex
You have to tell the package where not to break. For your ugly gigantic formulas spit out by matlab or whatever, it's probably as good as you can get. For my idea of math formulas it isn't.
7:23 AM
@JosephWright another one? we-edit.de/tex/question/…
@Johannes_B Report to the Powers
@JosephWright I haven't heard back from them last time. :-/
7:48 AM
Reported three instances
@JosephWright MikTeX contains LuaTeX 0.95?
Wow, when did that happen?
@Johannes_B Last night I think
@JosephWright first report of hyperref not working :-)
@Johannes_B Yes: @DavidCarlisle is on that
@JosephWright Hans is keeping you busy.
8:12 AM
@JosephWright when I've sorted out pdftexcmds (although I can find no error there, I fetched the file back from ctan and it all seems updated)
@Johannes_B "than slides" rather than "like slides" (which means the opposite:-) you just have time to edit?
@DavidCarlisle Thanks. Changed. Templates drove me crazy.
@AlanMunn where exactly have you seen that it should say 8th edition 2010? I cannot find that in my sources. Also I think those edition numbers are misleading, we the number should be bumped each time something is changed in the manual, it would be massive. I'd rather that people referred to the version number on the title page.
8:29 AM
@Johannes_B Where?
@UlrikeFischer texwelt
8:43 AM
@Johannes_B @DavidCarlisle: my miktex (updated yesterday) hasn't the new hyperref yet. In texlive the example works fine (when I remove the obvious errors as \makeglossaries - why do people never clean up their examples?)
@UlrikeFischer could you try
in miktex? (Karl claims it fails using ctan files, but it works for me...)
@DavidCarlisle Which engine? It works on a new miktex with luatex/pdflatex. But as I just wrote, the oberdiek packages are still old in miktex (eg ifpdf). Should I try with new versions?
@UlrikeFischer Oh don't worry it'll sort itself out, Karl claims to get an internal version mis match error in Heiko's Lua but I don't see it, but if you install stuff by hand (as I did) it doesn't necessarily help determine what some automatic script is installing.. the inter-dependencies in the oberdiek bundle are somewhat more complicated than one might hope:(
9:10 AM
@DavidCarlisle I just run a TL-update (which included oberdiek), attached the texmf-dist to miktex, tried out your example and it worked fine.
@UlrikeFischer Hm OK thanks, so I'll see once the US wakes up whether Karl did that by hand or whether he used the tds.zip file from ctan that I uploaded:-)
@ChristianHupfer why did you delete that longtable center one (OP just asked me to make my comment an answer but just undeleting yours would be easier) tex.stackexchange.com/questions/308909/…
9:38 AM
@egreg: Dilma is suspended for 180 days.
@PauloCereda not by a rope, I hope
@DavidCarlisle Nope. :)
10:33 AM
@PauloCereda What about the issue with the other vote that was declared void?
@egreg To be honest, I am just looking at the headlines. :) The subject is far too complex for a naïve duck. :)
10:56 AM
@PauloCereda I read about the president of the other House having declared void the previous vote.
@egreg Oh he declared void his previous void declaration. We are a joke. :)
@PauloCereda You have the best politicians money can buy.
@egreg We probably paid for the best ones, but got second-hand ones. :)
11:48 AM
Are TeXpad questions on-topic? I thought they were not because it didn't use TeX, but there are lots of references to its using MacTeX.
@cfr what is texpad? It's an editor, whence fine, or do I miss something?
@yo' It is either a Mac OS X/iOS editor or it is a Mac OS X/iOS TeX-alike. I thought it was the latter and did not actually use TeX at all.
@cfr to me it seems it's really just an editor
@yo' texpadapp.com No more off topic than most other editor questions (for e.g. TeXstudio), and there are plenty of those.
@yo' Actually, it seems to be different on iOS and Mac OS X. On OS X, it uses MacTeX, for example. On iOS, not.
@TorbjørnT. I think it is different on iOS.
11:53 AM
@cfr texpad is a tex editor (a bit difficult, it tries to help people by hiding the log-files in a hidden folder. It took me once an hour until we tracked them down)
@DavidCarlisle I thought it's not really useful, but I've undeleted
@UlrikeFischer So does it just use its own install of TL on iOS? (For offline compilation.)
@cfr ask on TeX - LaTeX ;)
@cfr I don't know, I don't have iOS. The documentation says "The local typesetter is built upon a Texpad’s own LaTeX distribution that runs natively on your iPad, iPod or iPhone." and "The underlying LaTeX and BibTeX engines are built upon kerTeX-based TeX distribution".
I am secretly working on a brand new, UTF-16, duck-friendly TeX engine. :)
12:07 PM
@cfr Tricky as pdfTeX is GPL so can't go into the Apple Store
12:18 PM
I have a Cygwin bash running a Java application inside a Windows 10 install inside a virtual box in my Mac.
^^ @DavidCarlisle
12:46 PM
@PauloCereda :-)
@PauloCereda I go as far as gow on my VM :-)
ooh is it worth?
1 hour later…
1:51 PM
@JosephWright just cc'ed you on mail: you couldn't get oberdiek.tds.zip and see what version of pdftexcmds.lua you get could you? It seems like it only works for me:(
@DavidCarlisle I downloaded the tds and see Version: 2016/05/10 v0.21, but this is not the version I have in my TL 16 tree. There it is still Version: 2013/04/28 v0.20-eroux.
@PauloCereda gitter just mailed me to say: cereda/arara I have 100 unread messages have I been missing out on lots of interesting conversations?
Sorry take it back with the TL 16. I haven't updated here. @DavidCarlisle
@UlrikeFischer but you do see the new version on ctan, so it's not just me then. Both Karl and Akira say they see the old (but they can get the new just from the sources) but it's odd (and I pointed them directly to dante to avoid mirror issues) I need to do some more updates but trying to understand this first
@DavidCarlisle Yes, from CTAN I get the new one. But I can't really see which mirror a download use.
2:06 PM
@UlrikeFischer OK thanks
2:20 PM
@UlrikeFischer @JosephWright ah problem solved. I'm an idiot:-)
@DavidCarlisle ???? And what's the solution?
@DavidCarlisle Finally you admit it! :P
@UlrikeFischer apparently zip only adds all the correct files to a zip file if you tell it which files to include
@DavidCarlisle Uh-oh. :)
@DavidCarlisle Blame zip's silly developers
2:35 PM
@egreg I blame you
@DavidCarlisle As usual. Nice hidden feature of colortbl, by the way, that also harms align and cases.
@egreg new one (there was a colortbl/cases question here the other day, I just got them to do the cases in a box register before the table) is this same?
@DavidCarlisle I guess so
@egreg which question do you mean now, I don't see a colortbl one in recent list?
A: unset rowcolor in eqnarray

egregThis seems to work; basically, we nullify the action of \@rowc@lors in the amsmath alignments. Of course, I do nothing to eqnarray that should never be used. \documentclass{article} \usepackage{amsmath} \usepackage[table]{xcolor} \usepackage{etoolbox} \makeatletter \pretocmd\env@cases{\def\@ro...

2:41 PM
@egreg hey \rowcolors is xcolor not me
@DavidCarlisle I blame you nonetheless. The \CT@everypar trick doesn't work with align
@egreg colortbl is a bit unsafe generally, problem was the spec (from Sebastian and Michel while they were writing the latex graphics companion) was that it was supposed to work in all tabular like things so tabular, array package, longtable, supertab etc, so it's inconvenient to set things up at the beginning of the environment so things get set up globally and just hope that other alignment things don't break too much. If you have a better plan feel free to suggest a patch:-)
3:31 PM
@daleif It could very well be my error. But at some point when I wrote my class documentation, I put in a specific reference to the Memoir manual including the page from which I quoted, and ended up with 8th Edition 2010. I only keep a couple of years of TL around on my machines, so I can't find the older version of the manual from which I took the quote originally. It's not a big deal, but I think that it would be helpful to have consistent publication info for citing the manual.
@daleif I used the Edition date, since that's a normal way to cite things, and that's what had a year attached.
1 hour later…
4:42 PM
	pdftitle = {ä, ß, →}
gives unicode with xelatex
@DavidCarlisle This gives the unicode chars with xelatex, but not lualatex, when examined with exiftools.
Reading the documentation, i would have guessed i need option unicode for that.
@egreg @JosephWright Do you get the TeX on OSX mailing list postings? They've stopped for me despite my subscription settings being correct. Also, I posted a message yesterday which I don't thing turned up.
@AlanMunn Not seen messages for a long time
@egreg Ah, you neither? My last message is from Feb 1.
@Johannes_B Apparently, hyperref uses the pdftex driver with LuaTeX
@Johannes_B I'll try later with TL 2016
@egreg It does. Thanks
5:21 PM
etex allow use to do \marks<number>{<something>}
but is there any system (eventually in LaTeX) like \newmark
to be sur the <number> won't be used twotime '
@egreg yes and if you have luatex 0.95 you need the update from this week that adds luatex85 package to the top, or the version on my laptop that has a separate luatex option
@Maïeul yes \newmarks is defined by default (but the etex multiple marks don't work as well as you might wish)
@Johannes_B Or pdfencoding=auto (but its not new that you need it with lualatex).
ho ! @DavidCarlisle thanks, \newmar is not documented in the handbook
but what are the restriction / possible problem ?
@Maïeul handbook? sorry no time now and I'd have to look back through our records but we dont use them
@UlrikeFischer My head messed up. That one was template related ...
5:33 PM
OK David
I will be test for need
and see if it is ok
thanks anyway
@Maïeul It's documented in source2e.pdf but not in the LaTeX2e or etex documentation.
ok, thanks Alan Munn, I was looking on etex
@DavidCarlisle Just updated also the whole oberdiek. Still needs unicode, though
@ChristianHupfer Oh, that looks good.
5:47 PM
@Johannes_B I will write up the recipe as soon as possible
@IrregularUser answer updated
Fixing a package. ^^
@PauloCereda Is this moving the Brazilian way? ;-)
6:02 PM
@ChristianHupfer Nope :)
@PauloCereda Those blokes are real experts of Physics :D
@ChristianHupfer What have the Physicists ever done for us. :)
@PauloCereda invented HTML :D
@ChristianHupfer oooh
Sir Timothy John Berners-Lee OM KBE FRS FREng FRSA FBCS (born 8 June 1955), also known as TimBL, is an English computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web. He made a proposal for an information management system in March 1989, and he implemented the first successful communication between a Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) client and server via the Internet sometime around mid-November of that same year. Berners-Lee is the director of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), which oversees the continued development of the Web. He is also the founder of the World Wide W...
@PauloCereda: Well, he has a degree in Physics and worked at CERN
6:09 PM
@ChristianHupfer :D
@PauloCereda: By the way, I organized a trip to CERN in Geneva, Switzerland at the end of July with my Physics Course... 5 hours bus to Geneva, 3 hours guided tour and other 5 hours back with a (hopefully) non - shaky bus :D
@ChristianHupfer yay, can I be the guide?
@ChristianHupfer Ok, thanks.
@PauloCereda Yes Noooooooooo :D
In your right, something very dangerous! Everybody will probably die.
6:12 PM
@PauloCereda You say always: Ducks have no idea of Physics :-P
@PauloCereda Do you refer to the Strangelets Blackhole Generator at Cern that could swallow up the whole Earth? :D
@ChristianHupfer This institute is inside the University of São Paulo: ipen.br/portal_por/portal/default.php A friend and I were passing by it the other day and he said, you know, there's a nuclear reactor in there! I replied, wait a minute, we all could die at any moment for about 2 years if this thingy explodes and you tell me only now? Then I went for ice cream. :)
@PauloCereda Naughty atoms :-P
@ChristianHupfer Why can you never trust atoms? They make up everything! :)
@PauloCereda Has the same quality like: There were two peanuts walking down der Strasse. On was assaulted one .... ;-)
@ChristianHupfer :D
6:22 PM
Relativistic electrodynamics is fun :-(
@AlanMunn @Maïeul also in particular ltnews22 (january 2015, when it was added)
@ChristianHupfer also don't forget the latex companion (aka CERN's local latex guide)
ok David, thanks,
@DavidCarlisle :-)
@DavidCarlisle :D
@ChristianHupfer you think I'm joking?
@JosephWright ctan's been inconsistent for 4 years so now I have to fix it:-) but I'm driving up M1 in a few minutes so it'll have to wait..
6:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle Understood
@DavidCarlisle No, I know that Michel Goossens works (or worked) at CERN, but I laughed rather at 'guide' because I mentioned 'guided tour'
@DavidCarlisle Parents?
@JosephWright yep
7:09 PM
@egreg Please, Tocci is pronounced similar to French Totchi, right?
Totchi is not french
@Maïeul I know, but it can be pronounced the French way
(I wasn't able to write the tipa thingy, I could have also written Toči)
7:35 PM
@ChristianHupfer hello. If you are around, would you happen to know why your solution does not work when I switched to legal size page please?

http://tex.stackexchange.com/questions/309244/how-to-show-list-of-figures-and-list-of-tables-inside-chapters-only-and-not-also it works very well when I compile lettersize, but once I switched to legal size, your magic code had no effect. I added this line

\usepackage[legalpaper,top=1in,bottom=1.3in, left=1.3in, right=.8in,footskip=0.25in]{geometry}
@yo' Yes, but with a strong č
@ChristianHupfer Please ignore my question above I think I made mistake myself, looking at it now. Thanks.
8:14 PM
Hi guys, I have a very 'general' question, I'm not sure is right for the website as it's very broad. Basically I want to know how to apply specific kerning to a single isolated instance. Is that even possible? I want to 'drag' a dot closer to a letter in just one incidence.
i did some googling for kerning, pdflatex, applying, but couldn't really find anything that answers my question
and I'm never quite sure if my questions really fit the format of stackexchange, so I thought I'd ask here first and if it's a 'good question' to ask, then I'll post it on the forums too :)
@myrtille By 'just one instance' do you mean once only or a particular letter/dot combination generally?
@AlanMunn No, it's really a single instance. Well, it's a bit complicated. The issue is that the package siunitx does not attempt to account for punctuation marks, so when you have a something like \SI{2}{\kilo\gram}. There will be too much room between the g and the . This is what I want to fix
and since it's just happening once in my text, I'm looking for a dirty fix that'll drag the g and the . together, just that one time
tex.stackexchange.com/questions/94992/… This is the first thread I found for this problem and where it basically says to do it manually (but I don't know how)
@myrtille @JosephWright is the person to ask about siunitx, but in the general case you can always add a manual kern: e.g. r\kern-2pt. will put the dot under the r.
ah thanks, I'll try that :)
is there a general manual about kerning in latex one could read? (if one had the time to read it)
@myrtille ? Should be the same as $2\,\mathrm{kg}$.
8:23 PM
@myrtille I see no difference

@myrtille Well that's pretty low level stuff, and \kern itself is a TeX primitive.
i changed the units for simplicity.


(I hope this works)
how do I get it to display the resulting text?
@myrtille Take a screenshot, click the Upload button to add it here.
@myrtille I see no difference in spacing.
@JosephWright That's what I thought. I thought that it used something not-TeX for just that reason, but it seems to sometimes use TeX and sometimes something not-TeX?
urgh, thanks. Tested it in a separate document and it's doing it just fine. Problem must be somewhere else then :/ Sorry
god, thanks. I'm so stupid, found the problem:
\newcommand{\tev}[1]{\SI{#1}{\tera\electronvolt} }
I totally don't know where that extra blank came from.
8:38 PM
@Nasser I was away from keyboard, sorry
@ChristianHupfer it was my error. Your solution works with legal size also. I was mixing things when I copied your code to another file. All is good. Thanks.
@Nasser Well, I would have been quite surprised if there would be a difference concerning paper size, but if all is well this is nice!
latex experts: I found out, after many years of using Latex, that page numbers in pdf come out one off, from what pdf displays in its counter thing. The first page (title) and the second page after that, both have page number 1 inside pdf menu thing. This causes so much problem, when I want to print range of pages in pdf, since there is always one off error. I found out to fix this, I have to do this each time in my latex file

\addtocounter{page}{1} %IMPORTANT, MUST HAVE TO RESET PAGE
Here is screen shot when I do NOT reset the page number in latex
Now I added the line \addtocounter{page}{1}, and this is the result
See the difference? Same document. Without this, it was all off each time I print few pages, because what I think the page number should be, is not what pdf reader things it is.
9:15 PM
@egreg thanks. And, good night, everybody
@Nasser The report class does this when you use titlepage. I never use that class and never recommend it.
@Nasser Notice that the class was conceived several years before PDF was even thought of and when reports were printed with a cardboard cover that had no number.
@egreg but I need to use chapters. So can't use article. book class is too much for what I have. Not sure what else to use. I found the above when I tried to print duplex manual, and kept getting the wrong paper to come.
@Nasser Why do you consider book “too much”? I can see no reason.
@egreg You are correct, I just tried the book class. It does not have this issue with page number one-off in PDF. Ok, Will switch to book class. I just never really used this class before much, but when I try it, it seems to leave too many empty pages between chapter, after title, etc... which I do not like. But may be this is how books supposed to be. Will try it more.
9:33 PM
@Nasser \documentclass[openany]{book}
@egreg wow! the option openany did the trick. now no more empty pages after title and between chapter as before. Thank you. I am switching from report to class after this. much better, also do not have to worry about page numbers.
9:50 PM
@Nasser you must have done something to reset the page number to 1 when I run a report class document I get in the log [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] not two 1's. ah titlepage rather than \maketitle hmm
@DavidCarlisle hum... I did not do anything specific really. I had \documentclass[11pt]{report} and then did \maketitle later on.
There is a way to RESET page numbers inside PDF reader. Here it is: But it is too time consuming to do it each time:
@David: question: does the Queen sing God save the Queen? :)
One selects the pages inside PDF page view, then reset the counter to start from one. Now what pdf reader sees as page number, corresponds to the actual physical page. Much less confusing. But better to do this in latex.
@PauloCereda no
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@DavidCarlisle: the Queen comes to São Paulo to see... the edifício Itália (@egreg)!
10:00 PM
@Nasser I thought you could do that in hyperref but I don't see it now, making the pdf internal number correspond to the page number. You can't in general have the printed number correspond to the physical page count if say frontmatter id i,ii,iii then main pages are 1,2,3 etc
@PauloCereda No, she's tone-deaf.
@egreg ooh :)
Question: If I wanted to make a reference point to a page number instead of a section, how hard would that be? So something like \ref{foo} and it would print the page number foo is on?
@PauloCereda Wait, that is Queen Elizabeth II. Why that a big deal in Brazil? Brazil isn't Commonwealth.
@PauloCereda since they rule by divine right, it would show a lack of faith on her part if she had to ask again to be saved.
@PauloCereda That was under the military regime?
10:05 PM
@Canageek \pageref ?
@Canageek \pageref{foo}
@Canageek I just found this video of her visiting the (at the time) recently built new capital. :)
@egreg so slow
Thanks, was telling someone it was easy, then realized I'm not sure if I've ever done it so thought I should check
@DavidCarlisle Betrayed by the braces
10:05 PM
I was PRETTY sure it was easy, but yeah
@egreg Yes, the second president under military regime.

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