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6 hours later…
11:01 AM
Is time ordering in QFT related to the time function in GR
How fancy does a time function have to be to allow a time ordering
 
I love Cosmas Zachos and his tag edits :3
 
11:23 AM
Who is Zach Cosmos
 
Someone contributing more to the site than you :V
In all seriousness, he's doing good work with his tag edits.
 
I'm tryin' mate
But 1) I mostly like answering GR questions 2) I don't like answering basic questions 3) I'm too lazy to answer questions that require a long answer
It's a hard life
 
11:43 AM
It is.
 
12:06 PM
Heyyyyyy
Hhhh
 
hey
 
12:21 PM
Conclusion: Too many vague things that might not be measurable
typo: "Masure" should be "measure"
 
http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.116.120404

To be checked later (coherance distillation)
 
 
2 hours later…
1:55 PM
Can anyone help me with relativity?
 
ask your question and see what happens
 
OK. I'm 10 ly from Earth "facing" Earth (x axis oriented at Earth), looking at Earth 10 years ago. This is {10, -10} as a x,t vector. When a spaceship passes me at 0.8c, we synchronize clocks. For that spaeceship, Earth is 6ly away and it's seeing light from 6 years ago, in other words {6, -6}. However, the only Lorentz transform that converts {10,-10} to {6,-6} is for v = -8/17, not v = 0.8
 
2:32 PM
@Slereah A quadratic form is a polynomial in the vector components, and polynomials are continuous.
 
well then why even ask
 
@Slereah Now to prove a few other things
(a) $v_n\to v$ implies the components of $v_n$ converge to those of $v$
(b) multivariable polynomials are continuous
@Slereah For (a), give $V$ the metric $d(v,w)=\max \lvert v^i-w^i\rvert$.
Then the components will converge in this metric, and hence in all metrics.
 
3:05 PM
@WillO I summon thee to chat (that doesn't work, does it?)
 
@barrycarter Only if he's been in the room (or posted in the room? one of those) in the past two days
 
Oh, and he's not. Oh well, I sent him a comment asking him to come here.
 
and even then, all you can do is notify someone, not actually summon them.
@barrycarter Sure, that works.
 
Well, I meant summon as in "request", not summon as in force :)
 
Yeah, I figured, just a little joke :-P
 
3:09 PM
Ah!
I unsummon thee @DavidZ
Unsummoning must be a 7th level spell
 
Mods probably have immunity or something
 
/me casts Great Unsummoning.
 
^^that was my thought
 
/me casts Change Room to Use IRC Actions
 
well, I need to take off for the moment anyway
see you later
 
3:12 PM
Delayed effect!
/me casts Eventual Great Unsummoning
 
Wowsers, I meant to contain it to this room.
If people start leaving the planet, I'll become really worried.
 
@0celo7 I tried ordering but it says all I can do is pre-order it
 
@FenderLesPaul Damn, does it say when it will ship?
 
End of April
 
3:20 PM
Blargh
@FenderLesPaul Thanks for trying
 
Yeah sorry dude
:(
 
Hopefully the librarian will update our Springer sub and I can get it myself by then
why would they even put a book on preorder when it's clearly done
 
3:39 PM
Can I force a comments discussion into chat before it gets long enough for the "automatically move this discussion to chat" link?
 
3:59 PM
3
Q: The dimension of the energy-momentum tensor and the Einstein-Hilbert action

Alexander CskaI have been thinking recently what will happen if one uses the energy momentum tensor of the Dirac field as a source in the Einstein Field equations. It is well known that in this case $$ T_{\mu\nu}=i\overline{\psi}\gamma^{\mu}\partial^{\nu}\psi $$ What fallows however causes my confusion. T...

 
OP is convinced he/she made the Einstein-Hilbert action renormalizable somehow
I've been trying to explain he/she cannot use on-shell equations to simplify the Lagrangian, but he/she remains skeptic
could any of you pass by and tell them I'm right (if I am) or tell me I'm wrong (if I'm not) please?
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform Dang, $\ddddot x$
Wonder what the limit is!
$\dddddot x$
 
@0celo7 $\overset{......................................}{x}$
 
oo
That's cheating!
The dots appear to the slightly different than the \dot ones.
 
4:06 PM
$:\overset{....}{\underset{....}{x}}:$
 
@AccidentalFourierTransform ...well done.
 
@barrycarter you can't make an automatic migration, but what you can do is create a chat room, comment to ask the other participant(s) to join you in that chat room, and then stop responding in the comments. (People often forget that last part)
2
 
4:24 PM
Does anyone which one is bigger for an airplane? lift or drag coefficient? I guessed lift coefficient is bigger but in laboratory our numbers say drag coefficient is bigger
 
puu.sh/o4FBH/30db0a52cd.png anyone able to translate this in english? I read it as $F^n$ is equal to the set where the list of $x_f$ which is equivalent to $(x_1,...x_n)$ is an element of F. I don't get the rest of it though.
OH my monitor sucks I read that as $x_f$ when it's $x_j$ nvm i'm good
 
@Obliv so that people don't have to click the link: $$F^n = \{(x_1,\ldots,x_n):x_j\in F\text{ for }j=1,\ldots,n\}$$
 
4:42 PM
@DavidZ Thanks. Is there a way to magically give it the name that would otherwise be assigned?
 
Magically, no, but you can manually give it that name. I think the template is just "Discussion between [username1] and [username2]" and the description is "Imported from a comment discussion on [link]"
If you ask me, the default name isn't particularly great, and you can probably come up with a better one.
 
@DavidZ Rumble in the Relativity Room
 
That works
 
Oh boy
A timaeus answer I can actually upvote
 
And actually, you can also ask people to bring the discussion to this room, if it's not especially important to you to have a separate room for the discussion.
 
4:47 PM
Yes, I tried that, but they apparently prefer to just add comments.
 
Yeah, that's what tends to happen when you (or I) ask people to move a discussion to chat. A lot of times, they keep going in the comments. But refusing to respond in the comments is remarkably effective ;-) They just wind up talking to themselves and it looks a little silly after a while.
 
But it doesn't satisfy my bloodlust to protect the honor of physics.
 
But the worst part is that he's "slightly wrong" to the point he can confuse people, not blatantly wrong (like that other guy) where I feel free to ignore him.
 
The other thing you can do is flag (one or a few of) the comments as obsolete. Any time there's a comment asking to take a discussion to chat, it renders all other comments in that discussion obsolete, so we'll generally delete them and leave only the link to the chat room.
 
4:52 PM
Plus, this is SE. It is sacred ground.
Although I think we're down to a linguistic point in the particular discussion.
 
0
Q: Why are homework questions not given proper answers and they don't have much value here?

aymus bondI think you all are still correct but some of us have some personal problems due to which we come to sites like this. I think we should be treated well.

 
@PhysicsMeta Go dmckee, go!
 
I disagree. People should be "treated well" even if we choose not to answer their questions.
 
Well, yes, but one must be clear on what "treated well" means.
 
I never took the site tour when I joined this site. Should I have?
 
4:58 PM
I suspect the poster of that question thinks of good treatment as getting their questions answered.
3
@barrycarter it's probably stuff you know by now. Just the basics. You don't really need to. (But you never know, you might learn something, and there's a badge for it too I believe)
 
I'm actually frustrated that we don't answer homework questions or at least close them with: here's a link to some homework helper site resources. Or even migrate the question to math.SE or another site which DOES accept homework questions.
 
Maybe I need to switch to decaf or something. I thought I was being diplomatic.
 
Oh, I'm sure you were, relative to what you could have said.
 
And I really did erase several versions that we're too tough.
 
Oh crap, I confused David Z and dmckee.
 
5:00 PM
lol :-P
 
The OP mentioned "personal problems" which I thought was funny.
 
puu.sh/o4Hv2/7a15a64999.png Sorry for linking a puush again but it's not just tex this time. What does he mean by defining the sum of an element of $F^n$ and 0? How can you define such an elementary operation o_o and why does 0 have to be a list?
 
@barrycarter Well... the thing is, we really really don't want to be a homework help site. We want to ensure that when students are seeking the quickest path between them and the answers to their homework questions, that path does not lead through this site. So in some ways, we go out of our way not to be helpful to people who come here looking for that kind of help.
@Obliv oh you can do that with MathJax ;-)
 
@DavidZ OK, we disagree on the definition of "homework help site". To me, that means guiding the student to the correct answer, making him do most of the work.
@Obliv So, F^n is the product of a set (field) F n times?
 
@barrycarter No. We don't disagree on that. Or at least I don't.
 
5:04 PM
yes I think so@barrycarter
 
@dmckee Oh, I was referring to @DavidZ comment 'when students are seeking the quickest path between them and the answers to their homework questions, that path does not lead through this site'.
 
I just don't want to do that here. Once you admit that kind of question is inevitably becomes the bulk of the business of the site. Just look at Mathematics.
 
@barrycarter there are different degrees of homework help one can offer
In any case I'm on a call, I have to bow out for now
 
@dmckee HEY! I LOVE THAT SITE!
@dmckee Consider migrating 'math-y' questions to math.SE then?
 
@barrycarter actually I think it's just defined as a field of n dimensions. I don't know if thats the same thing lol
 
5:05 PM
@Obliv Well, so a typical element will look like {1,2,3,4}, right? if n= 4?
 
@barrycarter I loathe it. This is clearly a disagreement about goals. I suppose you could take it up on meta again. It's been a while since we went around on that issue.
 
@barrycarter yes
 
@dmckee I think moving the questions to math.SE would be good for both sites.
 
Has anyone ever heard "goldston" for Goldstone boson?
 
@Obliv So, {1,2,3,4} + 0 = .... not meaningful. Your 0 has to {0,0,0,0}
 
5:06 PM
@barrycarter We do that at least some of the time. If the question has been reduced to math. But they don't want questions in physics terms.
 
@barrycarter Sounds a bit like using Math as a toilet bowl for unsavory questions.
 
@barrycarter OHH right since in this case x isn't just the x axis it's the list of ${x_1,...,x_n}$ right?
 
@Danu New one to me, but I can see why someone would think it was clever.
 
@dmckee Well, all physics is math anyway...
 
@dmckee Cosmas Zachos just told me that it's the standard terminology.
I think he must be wrong.
 
5:07 PM
@HDE226868 No, just the homework questions, not all unsavory questions.
@Obliv Correct, it's a multidimensional space.
 
@Danu I've never studies the subject closely so he could be right.
 
@barrycarter I know. But those tend to be some of the worst.
 
One man's garbage is another man's treasure.
@HDE226868 Maybe I'll look through some of the closed questions before posting on meta. If I had the power, I'd shepherd the questions myself.
 
@barrycarter: I've been thinking about your acceleration problem ...
 
@JohnRennie Oh, good, thank you.
@Hypnosifl Greetings.
 
5:11 PM
Suppose the twins synchronise their clocks when they meet i.e. about 12.5 years (on Earth) after the distant twin starts accelerating.
Then you can work backwards from this point
 
@JohnRennie You know, I suggested in an earlier message that changing t=0 to something other than whatever I set it to in the problem would help. You're saying setting t=0 to 2022.5 would help?
 
Well if you take the zero as the meeting point then in the Earth frame the twin sets off at about -12.5 years.
 
@JohnRennie OK, but one twin remains 10ly from Earth at all times. The only place they can sync is 10ly away, no?
 
In the twin frame we know the twin's clock must show about -7.5 years when they start accelerating
 
Or are you saying they synch when one twin lands on Earth, and they are in the same ref frame?
Oh wait, sorry.
My mistake.
Yes, got it. OK.
 
5:15 PM
@barrycarter - Hi--so on the broader conceptual point, would you agree that all statements about what distant events were simultaneous with a particular clock-reading in my past are just so much "bookkeeping", depending on what coordinate system I choose to use, with no frame-independent physical reality?
 
@Hypnosifl Did you read @WillO's latest comment? I think we're down to a linguistic issue here, but an important one.
@JohnRennie OK, so the accel twin left -12.5 years ago in Earth's frame?
 
To a first approximation we can ignore the effect of the acceleration on the twin's clock because the acceleration period is so short (1 sec vs several years).
 
@JohnRennie Right... but don't you mean -10 years ago? He was 10 light years away when he acceled (in Earth frame).
 
10 light years divided by 0.8c is 12.5 years - in the Earth frame the twin takes 12.5 years to reach Earth.
 
@JohnRennie Woops, sorry.
 
5:17 PM
So in the twin's frame when they reach 0.8c their clock shows -7.5 years
 
@JohnRennie OK, right. Travel twin was 10 ly away at t = -12.5 ?
In travel twin's frame, he is now 6 ly from Earth, and 7.5 years away from arriving?
In other words, his clock jumps forward 5 years?
 
So in the twins frame, when they reach 0.8c the Earth time is 4.5 years
 
@barrycarter - I did, I think he was making pretty much the same point, assuming by "Fargo is to my right, and always has been" he meant "Fargo is in the direction I currently call right, and always has been" rather than "Fargo has always been in the direction I called right at the time". Might have been clearer if it was stated in terms of coordinates, like "Fargo is at a greater x-coordinate than my own current x-coordinate, and always has been".
("always has been" in the coordinate system I'm currently using, that is)
 
When the twin is stationary they are in the same inertial frame as the Earth, so they and the earth can compare clocks using any one of the clock synchroniastion schemes
 
@JohnRennie OK, I think you lost me there. If you ... crap, I have to go. I think your point is that choosing a different t=0 means we never have to go into unoccupied reference frames.
@Hypnosifl I take issue with your last statement... that's where I believe the confusion is.
 
5:20 PM
@JohnDuffield hello
 
OK, catch you tomorrow - I'll try to draw up a diagram explaining my argument
 
@barrycarter Why do you take issue with it? Say that in the x-y coordinate system I am currently using, Fargo is at x=100, y=0, and I started at x=0, y=0, drove along the x-axis for 50 miles to x=50, y=0, then turned and started traveling along the y-axis, so I am now at x=50, y=10. Is it not true that in the coordinate system I am currently using, "Fargo is at a greater x-coordinate than my own x-coordinate, and always has been"?
That would be true even if on the first stage of the journey, I had been using a different coordinate system where I started at x=0,y=0 while Fargo was at x=0,y=100 in that coordinate system, and in this coordinate system I was moving along the y-axis. The point is that the statement in quotes above doesn't refer to this older coordinate system, so it's irrelevant to evaluating its correctness.
 
Anyone who is familiar with Mathematics know if they would like physics.stackexchange.com/questions/247167/… ?
 
@0celo7
Did you not fuck up in your Gauss lemma proof
$p$ is a point of the manifold but you write $\exp_q p$
or at least a confusing notation
Oh wait
It's the inverse map
nvm
 
@Slereah I actually proved a corollary of the gauss lemma
I proved that geodesics are orthogonal to balls
the traditional "gauss lemma" in riem geo is the $\langle \exp_* v,\exp_* w\rangle=\langle v,w\rangle$ one
or something like that
 
5:36 PM
I might have linked this before but if anyone is bored
and wants to see an absolutely deranged physicist give a talk in front of a bunch of famous physicists:
always makes me laugh
 
what part is crazy though
I watched it and I didn't think it was bad
 
quite literally the whole thing
dude it's so cringeworthy
they ask him legitimate questions and he's just like "fuck you I don't care blah blah blah information is lost"
 
where
 
for example 1:17:30
when Bousso starts talking about mining high angular momentum modes from the radiation
 
@0celo7 Are $v$ and $w$ arbitrary
 
5:41 PM
@Slereah Off the top of my head, I don't know.
And I'm not going to get out Jost or some other book to check
 
sorry I meant
1:13:39 when Lenny starts talking and
 
what is he talkin about a 4:10
 
1:10:05
is when Bousso starts talking
 
>Lenny
 
so there are some people who argue that black hole horizons don't form
 
5:44 PM
You mean Susskind?
 
and that a planck time before the horizon normally forms, a remnant forms instead
and Unruh is arguing that in order for such a remnant to form a planck time before you would need a force of ridiculously high orders of magnitude
@0celo7 well every time I meet him he tells me to call him Lenny
so I got used to it :p
 
why do you keep meeting him?
 
talks he gave at Cornell, conferences we're both at
I admire him a lot he has a crazy good intuition for physics
he can avoid all kinds of horrible calculations and just give very simple intuitive arguments that lead to important conclusions
 
intuition
Right now I'm trying to rigorously prove that the set of timelike vectors is an open submanifold with two connected components
 
My favorite paper of his is his fast scrambling black holes paper
 
5:49 PM
I have no need for intuition
I have proved openness
 
Now for two connected components...
 
Easily one of the most fun and cool papers I've read
 
@Slereah should I just write down the rest of the Gauss lemma proof
 
You are your own man
Do it if you wish to
 
5:52 PM
Nah, it's not really useful in GR
I proved the corollary directly
@Slereah what is the "Axiomatization" post
 
Oh I wanted to do a thing where I just list like
An axiom system for GR
Hopefully I will do it at some point
Currently more doing the compact spacetime thing
 
dude, I'm going to have to rewrite that
you need to format better
 
Hmmm, why did a post that was last edited last November show up in the reopen queue as "This question was edited after it was closed. Should it be reopened?"
@DavidZ @dmckee ^any ideas?
 
@ACuriousMind Is the proof of "quadratic forms are continuous" just "second order polynomials are continuous"
because the quadratic form is a second order polynomial in the components
 
@ACuriousMind Nothing leaps to mind. Gotta link? I could look in the moderator timeline.
 
5:57 PM
@dmckee Here's the link to the review
 
0
Q: Where do I begin in order to study relativity?

Mriganka ParasarI am in high school now and I want to get the basic idea of what relativity. Can anyone suggest me a book or website for it? I am also curious about the mathematics behind it. Is it possible for me to understand relativity in mathematical terms while still in high school? (Let's assume I know eve...

 
It recieved a re-open vote just 2 hours ago.
 
@Slereah This is where the list of books comes into play
 
That was the first re-open vote since the edit.
 
@dmckee Yeah, but the review shouldn't show "This question was edited after it was closed." if a non-review reopen vote and not the edit pushed it into the queue, should it?
 
6:02 PM
@0celo7 But you need commentary for the Physics question, not just a list.
@ACuriousMind Don't know. Seems misleading. I suppose you could ask on the mother meta.
 
@dmckee currently writing that part!
do I have to have commentary for every book
or just a few
 
@0celo7 I'm not an expert on the book policy because I don't like it much, but I think you are expected to explain why each book fits. Perhaps grouping them would be acceptable.
 
@ACuriousMind don't look at me, I don't understand the queues
 
@ACuriousMind do you have a hint for me on this?
 
@Bass Yes. The e is the coupling constant of the Yang-Mills theory, the q is the representation label.
 
6:17 PM
@ACuriousMind So is that a general property of gauge theories, that the fermions transform in a specific rep, whereas the gauge bosons transform independently of the fermion rep?
 
I needed a book from my shelf for something @Slereah
What was I doing
 
Proof for Gauss lemma?
 
@Bass Yes, the transformation of the gauge field does not depend on the matter fields at all (there needn't even be matter fields, a pure Yang-Mills theory makes perfect sense).
 
Oh, the proof that arcwise connected implies connected
Although that should be easy.
image of connected set or something is connected
 
Why do we only have two GR people here
Let's get more
I want more questions answered
 
6:20 PM
@ACuriousMind Does the standard model contain fermions that are in different representations of $U(1)$?
 
@Slereah most people thing QFT is interesting for some reason
it's not even defined ffs
 
I mean, is it like, "the electron is $q=3$ and the down quark is $q=1$"?
 
@Bass Yes
 
There's like 3 different kinds of fermions
 
@ACuriousMind Wow. Cool, thx!
 
6:21 PM
Wait no
 
@Slereah You know I should make a post on just Lorentzian vector space and light cones
 
6
 
Pretty sure there's more than two GR people
 
The 6 weak doublets
 
but they only care about actual GR
:)
 
6:21 PM
@FenderLesPaul watch your mouth boy
 
This is the GRest GR
 
@FenderLesPaul I only know you and JohnRennie, seems to add up ;P
Well, there's JerrySchirmer, I guess
 
@ACuriousMind hey
 
Prahar Mitra
 
I'd count Chris
 
6:22 PM
does he even know any GR @Danu
 
although Prahar never comes on chat
:(
 
I think think any of those people know why $\ll$ is transitive
 
which sucks because there's a billion questions I want to ask him
 
As far as I'm concerned, there are no GR people
 
maybe a million
 
6:23 PM
isn't scalar multiplication commutative? $a$ is a scalar and $h$ is a vector. $ah = ha$? or is that not the definition of commutativity lol
 
None of the "GR people" you named can answer basic GR questions :V
 
Or they don't care hehe
 
@FenderLesPaul I have him tagged as "QFT person" in my mind somehow (I only know his SE account, nothing else)
 
@ACuriousMind I guess he's right at the interface of both
 
Also Alfred Centauri
 
6:24 PM
@Obliv Writing $ha$ doesn't make any sense at all.
 
his advisor is Andy Strominger and his papers usually involve a lot of GR
so jealous
 
@Acuriousmind Can you write it in a way that does make sense I don't get why it doesn't
 
what is the threshold for "GR person"
 
@Obliv What operation is it supposed to denote? $\text{scalar}\cdot\text{vector}$ is defined to be scalar multiplication, but $\text{vector}\cdot\text{scalar}$ is not usually defined at all.
 
@0celo7 it's just a feeling
its more than a feeeeling
I think you're dreaaamiiing
sorry
 
6:26 PM
@Acuriousmind You can't write it both ways? Why is that?
@Acuriousmind how would you try to verify commutativity then?
 
I wouldn't, because scalar multiplication is not "commutative".
 
@Obliv you haven't told us what $ha$ is
can you please tell us what that is
 
@0celo7 it's a vector multiplied by a scalar
 
@Obliv that's $ah$
 
@0celo7 it's a scalar multiplied by a vector then
 
6:29 PM
@Obliv the vector space axioms say nothing about that though
 
@0celo7 why not?
 
what?
 
@0celo7 it sounds like the same thing
@0celo7 to me at least
 
"why not" is not the correct question for an axiom
 
@0celo7 actually no it doesn't. I see why it's not defined now
@0celo7 Sounds like in CS where you can't cast double to an int but u can cast int to a double (or something along those lines)
 
6:31 PM
@Obliv here is how you can define it though
expand $h$ in a basis like $h^iE_i$.
Then $ha$ is the vector with components $h^ia$.
 
@0celo7 I don't understand that notation, sorry :[
 
It would be commutative in that case
@Obliv do you know what a basis is
 
@0celo7 nope
 
uhhhh
go read a book on linear algebra?
Shankar's QM book explains all of that pretty well
 
@0celo7 my question comes from the book i'm reading lol. Reading axler
 
nice meme
 
@Obliv axler explains what a basis is
 
@0celo7 Yeah i'm only in the beginning where he describes vector spaces (I kind of already know what they are but he formalizes them)
 
a basis is a minimally spanning set
oh I used einstein notation, whoops
I should have written $h=\sum_{i=1}^nh^i E_i$.
Then $ha:=\sum_{i=1}^n(h^ia)E_i$
But that's a weird and useless definition.
 
ok well i'll keep reading then
 
6:37 PM
@ACuriousMind @Danu where did the $e_i$ or $E_i$ notation for bases come from
 
Love
it came from love
 
@ACuriousMind I did!
1 min ago, by 0celo7
@ACuriousMind @Danu where did the $e_i$ or $E_i$ notation for bases come from
 
Yay my flight comes in 3 hours
 
> @Danu
 
6:38 PM
wait 4 hours
:(
 
@FenderLesPaul Where are you going this time?
 
California!
 
Nice! To UCSB?
 
Berkeley first and then UCSB
free spring break in Cali basically haha
 
Ask on HSM
 
6:44 PM
I'm jealous of all my friends who have already found their niches in schools or just have a powerful gut feeling about a school
so I'm hoping I get that feeling at Berkeley or UCSB
so I can just make an easy decision
 
6:55 PM
@FenderLesPaul You don't get to bitch about your situation :P
I will have none of that
;)
 
mod tyranny!
 
heyyy
 
Ah, he's awake
Hi ACM
 
What is "he's awake" supposed to mean? :D I was travelling today
 

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