The Nineteenth Byte - 2016-01-28 (page 5 of 7)

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5:00 PM

@flawr It was a joint decision by the moderators, not just my opinion. Also, the chat message in which this was mentioned got 14 stars, so I assume at least a couple other people agreed. :)

It's not that we don't understand the frustration, it's just that asking why someone downvoted if they haven't already explained is no more constructive than downvoting without saying anything.

@Mego I actually have been noticing a lot of things that use CP437

Subtitles seem to be encoded in CP437, my printer seems to use CP437....

@LuisMendo As soon as I get back to my computer.

0

Q: Windows batch polyglot/hybrids challenge with any language possible

/* I hope such question is suitable for here*/ As the batch scripts are pretty limited, hybrid files that embed a code from another language into a batch file are used a lot lately. Though usually there are some requirements for a good hybrid script: The embedded code should be usable as-it-...

code-challenge polyglot

Lol. We got a little rock that has "Thou shalt never include a permission grant with the object being granted." engraved in it at work.

@quartata Order screens use CP437...

5:06 PM

@Rainbolt haha

Our team had a vote on whether we would include sql permission grants with the object or with the role. We voted like four times and kept forgetting what the outcome was.

  o      .-------.  .- finished
 -|-|>===| [032] | \_ O__
 / \     '-------'

@NewMainPosts no objective winning criteria

Oh boy it's time to play "guess where the segfault is since dmd doesn't seem to give debugging symbols"

Do you know D?

@Ampora now you got me addicted to brilliant. Nice going. :P

@quartata I cancel my order.

5:13 PM

@quartata I wish you kept your old avatar...

That one is a bit weird.

user image

4

They're quartatering

Yeah, but the pink/cyan is a bit much.

@AlexA. No they aren't

@quartata "Quartatering" is a synonym for "fencing."

Ah.

5:16 PM

lol

you just got out-verbal-sparred.

user image

This is the real fencing.

@LuisMendo Pulled.

in The Bridge, 29 secs ago, by Nate Kerkhofs

I'm so tired of not knowing what game to play that I'm installing Visual Studio to write me an app that checks my game folder for executables then chooses one at random for me to play (but not autostarting though)

user image

You made me waste 30 seconds of my life

@Rainbolt You need Alex's Unabridged Dictionary, 3rd Edition.

5:19 PM

@AlexA. Triggering...

Only $999.99 plus shipping and handling

Didn't notice you were speaking to quartata, so I actually clicked on the "Did you mean" and then looked through wikipedia's disambiguation

alex-unabriged-dictionary

sigh

> julia> 8^(1/4)*sqrt(8)*2^(3/4)
> 8.000000000000002

@Rainbolt I cannot be blamed for your falling into the Wikipedia trap.

@RikerW And?

5:20 PM

Rounding errors.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartatering

@AlexA. made me waste 30 seconds of my life

@RikerW That's what epsilon is for

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@RikerW most languages have them

@quartata epsilon?

@RikerW That's expected, since sqrt and / both return floats.

5:21 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ That doesn't make it anymore fun...

@RikerW Machine precision

BTW how to get nth root of number in julia?

ie root(4,2)?

@RikerW Raise to 1/n

^

lol sorry.

5:22 PM

@RikerW Works in PowerShell on my machine ...

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> [math]::Pow(8,.25)*[math]::Sqrt(8)*[math]::Pow(2,.75)
8

@Dennis Wow, that was quick! Thanks a lot!

Welp, powershell just owned julia. :(

@TimmyD It shouldn't

Why does that work?

Any suggestions for improvement are welcome

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Code words Introduction Pareidolia: From Ancient Greek; παρα ‎(para, “concurrent, alongside”) + εἴδωλον ‎(eídōlon, “image”). The tendency to interpret a vague stimulus as something known to the observer, such as interpreting marks on Mars as canals, seeing shapes in clouds, or hearing hidden me...

@quartata Microsoft Magic®

5:24 PM

more like one-digit precision

Python: (8**(1/4))*(8**(1/2))*(2**(3/4))==1?

@quartata PowerShell probably does what Dyalog APL does. If a result is within some specified tolerance of an integer, it will return the integer rather than a float.

Where did I screw up?

Which Python, 2 or 3?

@AlexA. That seems far too thoughtful of Microsoft though.

5:25 PM

XD

Fair point

@AlexA. 2

@quartata Thus why I use apple...

1/4 is integer division

^

ohhhh

I suck at logical reasoning today. :(

lol

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

5:26 PM

> >>> (8**(1/4.))*(8**(1/2.))*(2**(3/4.))
> 7.999999999999999

Other side of the table...

Nope, it's a Double

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> ([math]::Pow(8,.25)*[math]::Sqrt(8)*[math]::Pow(2,.75)).GetType()

IsPublic IsSerial Name                                     BaseType
-------- -------- ----                                     --------
True     True     Double                                   System.ValueType

I don't know

Voodoo

MAGIC

Obviously, .NET math is superior :p

Obviously, .NET math is wrong :p

Does PowerShell distinguish between integers and doubles?

Or is it one of those languages where everything is a double?

5:29 PM

^

> (8^(1/4))*(8^(1/2))*(2^(3/4))
[1] 8

R FTW

Numerical data types include int, long, decimal, single, double

> (8.**(0.25))*(8.**(0.5))*(2.**(0.75));;
val it : float = 8.0

That's F#, so I guess sometimes .NET works?

Or maybe it's rounded differently

@TimmyD Only int and long. Also float, which is presumably double.

@Roujo Looks like it's doing the same thing as PowerShell. So it must be some facet of .NET math.

5:31 PM

Decimal is a package of Python.

@zyabin101 There's a difference between float and double

@AlexA. Okay, I like R better than perl.

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> $a=[math]::Pow(8,.25);$b=[math]::Sqrt(8);$c=[math]::Pow(2,.75);'a='+$a;'b='+$b;'c='+$c;'ans='+$a*$b*$c
a=1.68179283050743
b=2.82842712474619
c=1.68179283050743
ans=8

@RikerW Good

How to get?

5:31 PM

@AlexA. Ah, I thought it was PS that ended up with 7.9999... in the first place

Haskell> (8**(1/4))*(8**(1/2))*(2**(3/4))
7.999999999999999

even haskell failed me

@zyabin101 I was listing numerical data types in PowerShell

@KevinW. That means you have a sane language

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Code words code-golf number word Introduction Pareidolia: From Ancient Greek; παρα ‎(para, “concurrent, alongside”) + εἴδωλον ‎(eídōlon, “image”). The tendency to interpret a vague stimulus as something known to the observer, such as interpreting marks on Mars as canals, seeing shapes in cloud...

@quartata Or a language that likes to round within a tolerance, like Dyalog APL and apparently R.

5:32 PM

@AlexA. No I don't think that's sane

> (8^(1/4))*(8^(1/2))*(2^(3/4)) == 8
[1] FALSE

It must just display as 8

@AlexA. That's really not sane

> (8.**(0.25))*(8.**(0.5))*(2.**(0.75)) == 8.;;

  (8.**(0.25))*(8.**(0.5))*(2.**(0.75)) == 8.;;
  -----------------------------------------^^

stdin(4,42): error FS0001: The type 'float' does not support the operator '=='

@quartata All numbers are doubles in R unless they have a trailing L.

That's pretty nice, actually =P

Wait. There's no == in F#. >_>
> (8.**(0.25))*(8.**(0.5))*(2.**(0.75)) = 8.;;
val it : bool = false
That's... better, I guess?

5:36 PM

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> ([math]::Pow(8,.25)*[math]::Sqrt(8)*[math]::Pow(2,.75))-eq8
False

Huh. Math in .NET is weird

Oh, wait, I bet I know what this is

I'm not able to make it show any non-0 digit after the period, and yet it tells me that it's not equal to 8.0 =P

3 mins ago, by TimmyD

Huh. Math in .NET is weird

Apparently so

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing> "{0:R}"-f ([math]::Pow(8,.25)*[math]::Sqrt(8)*[math]::Pow(2,.75))
7.9999999999999991

4. * 2. = 8.checks out as true, however, so it's not necessarily just a matter of .NET somehow recognizing that it's the exact same number - as in 8. = 8.

msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dwhawy9k.aspx#RFormatString

5:41 PM

Apparently, floating point math is weird.

Huh. I have this:
> printfn "%.30f" <| (8.**(0.25))*(8.**(0.5))*(2.**(0.75));;
8.000000000000000000000000000000

> When a Single or Double value is formatted using this specifier, it is first tested using the general format, with 15 digits of precision for a Double and 7 digits of precision for a Single. If the value is successfully parsed back to the same numeric value, it is formatted using the general format specifier. If the value is not successfully parsed back to the same numeric value, it is formatted using 17 digits of precision for a Double and 9 digits of precision for a Single.

Mystery solved.

> (8.**(0.25))*(8.**(0.5))*(2.**(0.75)) |> fun d -> d.ToString("R");;
val it : string = "7.9999999999999991"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@flawr No reptilian numbers under 123*10^5, unless my code is wrong

@TimmyD Awesome, didn't know about this one. Thanks! =D

5:44 PM

Yes, floating point math is weird!

@zyabin101 It makes perfect sense the moment one stops trying to think about it

No, what's weird is PowerShell dynamically converting int to double instead of long on overflow ...

do we have an identity matrix challenge

Jan 14 at 21:01, by TimmyD

PS C:\Tools\Scripts\golfing>  $n=720;7..15|%{$n*=$_;"$_! -> $($n.GetType().Name)"}
7! -> Int32
8! -> Int32
9! -> Int32
10! -> Int32
11! -> Int32
12! -> Int32
13! -> Double
14! -> Double
15! -> Double

@Seadrus You mean to construct one?

5:54 PM

@TimmyD did you just do a keyboard mash to gen that script?

@AlexA. construct / display one

Hm, not sure.

i didnt see one

@Seadrus No, he golfed that script as small as he can, Leftvote.

@zyabin101 but theres spcaes

user image

@Seadrus You made a typo.

5:55 PM

@DigitalTrauma haunts me ^^

@zyabin101 u kno wat it means

@Seadrus You made a typo. Again.

@Seadrus Sets $n to 720 (i.e., 6!). Then we loop over range 7..15 and each iteration multiply $n by that number ... then, output string "$_! ->" is just a string literal and we concatenate that with the datatype of $n for that iteration.

@zyabin101 i sincerely dont give a dam.

@Seadrus You made 2 typos.

@TimmyD so.. factorial

@zyabin101 its typoes.

5:57 PM

@Seadrus It's not typii? ;)

@Seadrus So, typo is typoe? You made a typoe.

hello coding whizzes

@zyabin101 hero → heroes, AFAIK

@Lembik 'morning ^^

I am having trouble getting my head about how to code up the following.

(I'm saying AFAIK because I'm not a native English speaker, btw, not as a form of sass =/)

5:59 PM

I have an m by n matrix M and I want to compute sum P(Mx = y)^2 over all possible y's where the x \in {-1,1}^n.

@Roujo He didn't specify what is the time of day.

I feel this should be easy but it is making my head hurt.. anyone help please :)

@Roujo Your English is very good. :) (And you're correct about hero -> heroes, though that rule doesn't always apply. English is dumb.)

What's your native language?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

> English is dumb.

Fact

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:00 PM

^^ please star this if you agree

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ what's wrong with English?

The rules are odd

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

It's inconstant

you mean spelling rules?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

All the rules.

6:00 PM

^

what other rules are we talking about?

← Star this if you agree that English is dumb.

Grammar, pronunciation, ...

no! :)

^^^ This doesn't have my star.

6:01 PM

@AlexA. French, which has its own claim to the "complicated for no good reason" title =P

Haha fair

I studied French a bit in university. It's a nice language.

That it is. Just... a tad complicated at times. =P

In English, if the word ends in o and you want to make it plural, if it's consonant-then-o you add an es unless you don't.

7

> unless you don't

3

That's English for you

Like, hero goes to heroes but zero goes to zeros

6:03 PM

I've seen zeroes, but I think zeros is the American English spelling.

Can any speakers of British English confirm?

I used to tutor students who had some issues with the language. I'd often end up in situations like the o → oes thing: "I really don't know why it's like that... I just remember that it is, and here's how I remember the exceptions: ..."

what is binary-matrix?

A matrix consisting only of elements in {0,1}

@AlexA. I use and see zeroes, yes

@AlexA. cool

6:04 PM

48

Q: What is the plural form of "zero"?

I tried looking on Google, but there are some fairly contradictory results. I thought I'd ask you guys so we could get an authoritative answer on the subject!

nouns grammatical-number orthography numbers vowels

Huh.

Huh indeed

@TimmyD So, zeroed is zerod? You zerod out your typo count by making a typo!

Funnily enough, I use grey and not gray, although I consider both as colors and not colours =P

@Roujo Ditto. I also distinguish between a live-action theatre and a movie theater

Although by now I've looked at color and colours enough that I feel like they're not even actual words anymore

6:08 PM

@zyabin101 Zerod just looks weird

Like some comic book villain

@Roujo That happened to me recently with the word "noise."

Ah, Canada. The land of mixed languages and mixed units. It's like we don't really know what we want =P

3

> Kneel before Zerod!

math versus maths is fun

and sport versus sports

I can never remember the difference between prison and jail

"Maths" and "sport" make me crazy.

6:09 PM

I've watch enough Numberphile that math/maths doesn't bother me anymore.

@AlexA. but you don't say mathematic do you?

Prison is state/federal, jail is local (e.g., county or city)

@Lembik No

But why would you truncate "mathematics" to "math" and then append the trailing "s"? That makes no sense. If you're truncating it to begin with, why not just commit to truncating it? :P

@TimmyD thanks!

@AlexA. :)

for me sports is like saying there is rices for lunch :)

In French, there's the whole "is mathématique masculine or feminine" thing in addition to that

6:12 PM

is sports singular or plural to start with?

Some people say "la mathématique", although it does sound old-ish

@Lembik Both

Well

well that's odd :)

No

Most people say "les mathématiques", masuline and plural

6:12 PM

It depends how you're using it

Baseball is a sport. But you'd say you play sports even if you only play baseball.

Or play a sport.

So I guess sport is singular and sports is plural.

@Roujo I usually do les mathématiques

do you say there is sports on TV now?

How wrong am I on a scale of 1 to 10

and.. I have a python question if anyone here still cares about coding :)

@Lembik You'd say "are," even if you're referring to a single one.

@Lembik This is The Nineteenth Byte, nobody cares about coding. :P

6:14 PM

oh so there is no collective noun?

I... don't know. O_O

if I have a list how do I make a set of pairs which are (item, count) for it?

I feel collections might do this magically

somehow

Count as in the number of times that item occurs in the list?

(this is a python question)

@quartata 1 wrong, I'd say - that's the usual way of saying it nowadays =)

6:15 PM

@Roujo Ah good

My grandfather was a math teacher, however, and he stuck to the other way

I guess it's from following the same pattern as "la chimie", "la physique" and all

@Lembik [(item, x.count(item)) for item in x]

I think

no

[(item, x.count(item)) for item in set(x)]

That should work

hi

any of you know how to hack a website?

like, one set up for us to hack it :P

???

2

Q: Construct the Identity Matrix

The challenge is very simple. Given an integer input n, output the n x n identity matrix. The identity matrix is one that has 1s spanning from the top left down to the bottom right. You will write a program or a function, and will return or output the identity matrix you constructed. Your output ...

code-golf math binary-matrix

6:21 PM

@AGZuniverse One does not simply hack a website.

nope, but one has to when it is a CTF competition

@AGZuniverse You can try here, I guess? captf.com/practice-ctf

Or did you mean setting up a site for a CTF you'd be hosting?

well I am already in such a competition

Oh, so you're looking for a CTF tutorial?

one the final challenges is to hack a website they set up

nope

I was hoping if one of you could help me solve the CTF challenge :)

6:23 PM

Ah, you're looking for help on a specific challenge, got it =P

yeah

If anyone wants to take a look, 103.10.24.99:5006

@Seadrus y u no ban builtins

the description just says "We think this site is secure. Do you?"

oh well it's too late

0

A: Construct the Identity Matrix

Octave, 10 bytes @(n)eye(n) Defines an anonymous function that takes a number n and returns the identity matrix.

well shit

6:25 PM

@quartata ouch =P

@quartata The same answer can be listed as MATLAB.

Guess I get to learn MATL now

Thanks @CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@LuisMendo Why doesn't this work: matl.tryitonline.net/#code=aXk&input=Mw&args=

y is eye, right?

@flawr You know MATL, right?

@AlexA. People who did not agree did not even have the opportunity to express their disagreement with one click=)

@quartata A little bit=)

Do you know matlab/octave?

@flawr Yeah.

I'm trying to translate my Octave answer.

1

A: Construct the Identity Matrix

Octave, 10 bytes @(n)eye(n) Defines an anonymous function that takes a number n and returns the identity matrix. A "bonus" version that can do non-square ones (14 bytes): @(m,n)eye(m,n)

But iy doesn't seem to work.

It doesn't output anything.

Does implicit printing not work for matrices?

It should

6:34 PM

Is it just a bug with the online interpreter then?

I couldn't get the offline interpreter working :P

eye() is Xy.

Ohhhh

Thanks.

The chart confused me a bit :P

And you can throw away the i as there is an implicit input.

Oh, is that a new feature?

It's been there for quite a while I think=)

6:36 PM

Hm.

One of my suggestiosn=)

@flawr It works!

I really like where Luis is going with MATL. It'll be awesome to see it in action on a really hard math challenge

It's not as golfy as CJam but it doesn't need to be

Yeah he's doing an awesome job!

Did you see my comment regarding @(n)eye(n) and @eye?

Yeah

@flawr Thanks, I knew there was a way to do it like that but I always forget :P — quartata 12 secs ago

whoa for the first time in quite a while I'm getting some rep

small loan of a million upvotes pls

6:41 PM

What interest?

trump% compound interest

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Why?

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Because your Jolf answer forced me to use MATL

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata You were going to use Jolf? o_O

No

But you were going to outgolf me otherwise

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:44 PM

Oh, lol.

It's okay, @Dennis will be here soon to outgolf us all.

Unless Jelly has an identity matrix built-in he can't.

Lemme check the atoms md

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

quick take a look at the source code

It doesn't.

Phew

@AlexA. What are be talking about?

6:45 PM

@AlexA. My point is that stars (as well as votes) are not independent, the same way as sheep do not choose where to run independently=)

feature-request downstarring

@Dennis You missed an easy challenge

7

Q: Construct the Identity Matrix

The challenge is very simple. Given an integer input n, output the n x n identity matrix. The identity matrix is one that has 1s spanning from the top left down to the bottom right. You will write a program or a function, and will return or output the identity matrix you constructed. Your output ...

code-golf math binary-matrix linear-algebra

I'm startled we haven't had it before

Oh! Crap, Jelly doesn't have an identity matrix built-in...

Luckily MATL does.

3

I'm very good at remembering which language has what built-in

@quartata eye is Zy (maybe I changed that at some point. Was it yin the past?)

@LuisMendo It's currently Xy

I got confused reading the docs and misread the chart

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:49 PM

@quartata True or false: Jolf has a bell-number builtin

@quartata Oops. Sorry. Yes, I meant that :-D

That's what I get for using a terrible PDF viewer

You can skip i. It's implicit

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yes it does

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

How about bernoulli numbers?

6:50 PM

Hmmm

@flawr A few days after you came up with the idea, if I recall correctly :-D

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Seadrus is taking unary input okay?

I don't think it does have it.

@quartata If you have the off-line compiler, you can use matl -h eye to search

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Good! One last one: catalan numbers.

6:51 PM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Yes it does have it.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yeah thats fine

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Alright, I believe you.

But you implemented it two days after the catalan number challenge

2sad4u

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

... scary memory.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yay

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

6:52 PM

I feers the @quart er

@AlexA. The best argument for "maths" that I've heard is this -- "Does doctors shorten to doc or docs?"

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Seadrus cool

@TimmyD That's a nice one, yeah.

This code is unacceptably long. — flawr 1 min ago

Very funny.

I had to mention it, there are solutions that are shorter than Jelly.

6:55 PM

Oh 4 bytes is so couple of hours ago

2

We're looking for 1 byte solutions now

@AlexA. did you seriously edit my post to fix capitalization?

@flawr :-D

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata Maybe @ThomasKwa can find a machine code that works for the task

@Seadrus No that was me.

It was bothering me.

Alex added tags.

@quartata @-- hey wheres the weird-eyed dude

6:58 PM

@Seadrus Editing others' posts to amend minor imperfections is common practice on SE and very much encouraged.

@Dennis really? some guy practically hurled shit at me for correcting his use of the word "literally"

@Doorknob When does it start? "Today"? Who has confirmed the times yet? Everyone?

That sounds like a crazy guy. Ask him if he uses LISP too.

@Seadrus Shit hurling is not at all encouraged. Do you have a link?

@Dennis no the post was deleted

@quartata it actually was a LISP answer

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