The Nineteenth Byte

Lembik

8:00 PM

although in reality the whole idea of dynamic typing is a disaster

it's essentially impossible to write python code of any size in a team

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1

A: A flat guessing game

APL, 77 73 - 210 = -137 {P←?⍺ {P←1+⍺|¯1+P+(?D)⌽D↑⍵×¯1 1[?2] C+←1 P≢G←⎕:0⊣⎕←0.5*⍨+/2*⍨P-G C}⍣≢C←0} Ok.

Dennis is almost outgolfed!

Lembik

(I am aware one or two people seemed to have managed it..some people can do anything :) )

Anonymous

@Lembik Guido has masters in math and cs

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Blender was written in Python. o_o

Anonymous

Guido van Rossum

Guido van Rossum (born 31 January 1956) is a Dutch computer programmer who is best known as the author of the Python programming language. In the Python community, Van Rossum is known as a "Benevolent Dictator For Life" (BDFL), meaning that he continues to oversee the Python development process, making decisions where necessary. He was employed by Google from 2005 until 7 December 2012, where he spent half his time developing the Python language. In January 2013, Van Rossum started working for Dropbox. == BiographyEdit == Van Rossum was born and grew up in the Netherlands, where he receiv...

VoteToClose

8:01 PM

\o/

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman I would be really interested to hear how they did it. Because preventing simple typos in a large project when you have dynamic types is a serious pain

El'endia Starman

Compare: 9 9 ... One has a strikethrough, the other doesn't.

Lembik

@Mego do you know where from?

Anonymous

@Lembik Click the link and you will be enlightened

El'endia Starman

@Lembik [shrug] I dunno how they did it.

Lembik

8:03 PM

@El'endiaStarman I personally know start up firms that started in python but gave up when they had 4 people working on the same code base and couldn't bear finding the coding bugs

they switched to scala I think

@Mego thanks

El'endia Starman

Use meaningful names!

Anonymous

^

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman that's not the problem! The problem is that you declare it again later and the system doesn't tell you, for example

El'endia Starman

hmm

Anonymous

@Lembik Use more namespaces

Lembik

8:04 PM

there is a reason type checking was invented :)

Anonymous

import this

Lembik

not just to annoy us

El'endia Starman

Y'know, I really like dynamic typing because I don't have to specify what type every single variable is.

Lembik

I wonder if blender do that

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^^

El'endia Starman

8:05 PM

probably

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman right.. it's really nice for small individual projects

but doesn't scale

I only code in python because it's eaaaaasy.... but the code is just for me

Anonymous

I really like dynamic typing because sometimes I want something to act like a string and an int, and I don't want to have to create a new class that derives from both.

El'endia Starman

At that point, yeah, you're better off using modules (Mego's namespaces).

Anonymous

Modules, functions, and classes

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Actually they're Tim Peters's namespaces

Anonymous

8:06 PM

Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

Lembik

but you can see the problem.. one coder uses a variables as an int and another as a float

and no error occurs

El'endia Starman

I typically shy away from using the same variable name inside and outside of functions because that just makes it more confusing.

Anonymous

Yes

Anonymous

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck

Lembik

how was that relevant ? :)

Anonymous

8:07 PM

If you receive something that walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you should not be surprised when it acts like a duck

El'endia Starman

@Lembik Communication and if type(var) == <type>... :P

Anonymous

@Lembik Python's dynamic typing is referred to as "duck typing"

Lembik

for me static typing is a discipline that is annoying and is necessary for anything serious that needs to be done professionaly

@Mego ah yes :)

Anonymous

I worked for a year in a company that used AlphaBASIC for legacy code

Lembik

nice!

Anonymous

8:08 PM

AlphaBASIC has only global variables

Seadrus

180 message ;-;

Lembik

I never like to do anything professionally so I use python

:)

@Mego so you are used to it :)

El'endia Starman

@Mego Oh gosh.

Anonymous

AlphaBASIC has static typing, but only for dynamically-created variables

Anonymous

For static variables, there is no strict typing

Anonymous

8:10 PM

Stuff is either a string or a numeric, and good luck figuring out which

El'endia Starman

By the way, @Lembik, Blitz 2D/3D is worse. Every variable is assumed to be an integer unless you say otherwise.

Anonymous

(oh, and you can assign a string to a numeric and be just fine)

Lembik

@El'endiaStarman :)

Anonymous

alphamicro.com/dss10/07300a05.pdf

El'endia Starman

So many times I've been frustrated only to find out that what I wanted to be a string "" was 0 instead...

Anonymous

8:10 PM

I recommend reading through that if you want to see a poorly-designed language

VoteToClose

duck?

El'endia Starman

ducks

Better safe than sorry...

TimmyD

@Mego I find it interesting that the multi-hole golf question you linked as an example of a non-dupe actually has you arguing that it is just a multi-dupe...

Anonymous

@TimmyD I did argue that, but the consensus clearly was that it wasn't

VoteToClose

Oh, duck. Duck duckity duck.

TimmyD

8:22 PM

@Mego But the reason that it wasn't, was because of the additional restriction on re-using characters. I don't see a similar restriction in your proposed challenge.

Anonymous

@TimmyD You mean other than the restriction that the same language must be used for all 9?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

bye may be back later

VoteToClose

Bye!

Side note: I just realized that I'm 50 rep from 1000. :D

quartata

What did I miss?

I see some Perl bashing

grr

Why does everyone here hate Perl so much

TimmyD

@Mego Right, because answers from the other questions are already competitive in your question, with little modification. Without knowing X language, I could take those three answers and be 1/3rd done with your challenge, which seems not-so-good.

VoteToClose

8:29 PM

I have no opinion on the matter.

quartata

Removed it just when I was about to read it

TimmyD

Oct 28 at 16:15, by Dennis

@AlexA. That's not valid Perl. This is:

quartata

:(

Guess I'll never know

VoteToClose

WOAH!

quartata

@TimmyD Oh I see.

VoteToClose

8:29 PM

I suddenly got, like 35 rep. o-o Who spam voted me?

Doorknob

@VoteToClose halp I'm drowning in pings

Anonymous

@TimmyD I will probably change the anagram one, at least. I was tired and running out of ideas when I got that far, and have some better ones now.

VoteToClose

@Doorknob What?

quartata

I see Dennis appreciates well-written Perl

That makes me feel better. You aren't all Perl haters.

VoteToClose

@Doorknob I have no idea what you're talking about.

@Doorknob At all.

Doorknob

8:31 PM

@VoteToClose the message that was a reply to, and the several after

also ಠ_ಠ

VoteToClose

Heh.

Sorry. @Doorknob

;)

Quartata wants his extremely starred "I'm an idiot" post on the star list.

Beta Decay

Yeah @Doorknob, VTC is sorry

So how many pings @Doorknob? ;)

Doorknob

@VoteToClose so why doesn't he edit it?

VoteToClose

Idk.

@Doorknob He wanted you to do it.

Doorknob

@BetaDecay if you don't stop I'll make your account live up to the second part of its username :P

2

VoteToClose

8:33 PM

I think.

Beta Decay

@Doorknob shriek

@Doorknob I thought mods weren't allowed to threaten

@Doorknob But @AlexA. threatens me too...

Doorknob

I see 9 pings onscreen, and I'm on mobile O.o

s/9/10/

VoteToClose

@Doorknob 11

Beta Decay

@Doorknob 12

VoteToClose

If we do too much, it'll end up off screen for @Doorknob.

Anonymous

8:38 PM

@Doorknob No stop, he only has 1 arm and 1 leg left! Have some mercy!

Doorknob

@Mego 'tis but a scratch

VoteToClose

Doorknob

"I'm invincible!"

Beta Decay

I find it surprising that Monty Python is popular in America

SuperJedi224

Hey guys

El'endia Starman

8:41 PM

@BetaDecay Surprising? Why?

Beta Decay

@El'endiaStarman I dunno.. It seems like it's very dry British humour

El'endia Starman

(For what it's worth, I seem to be one of the few that doesn't like it.)

ahh

SuperJedi224

Generating a BigRational that reasonably approximates the square root of another BigRational- any suggested approaches?

Anonymous

@SuperJedi224 Babylonian method?

El'endia Starman

^

Anonymous

8:47 PM

Or do bisection with a tolerance

flawr

Approximation via taylor polynomials?

VoteToClose

> Or do a c-section with no tolerance.

I always read things weird.

flawr

> how about a dissection

SuperJedi224

> The Taylor series of √(1 + x) about x = 0 converges for |x| ≤ 1

flawr

But you can develop the taylor series at any other point.

Anonymous

8:49 PM

I would not recommend Taylor series approximation for the square root function

Beta Decay

√1 + x = 1 + x doesn't it?

Anonymous

@BetaDecay sqrt(1+x)

Beta Decay

Oh, you've changed it :P

flawr

Which results in an accordingly greater or lesser convergence radius

@Mego Why not?

VoteToClose

> Or do a dissection with no form of blade tolerance.

Anonymous

8:50 PM

@flawr Because there are far better methods

VoteToClose

Eh. Doesn't sound right.

flawr

@Mego Nobody said anything about the quality of the methods=)

@SuperJedi224 Continued fractions.

Anonymous

With the Taylor series, the larger your n, the further away it is from the nearest perfect square, so it's more likely to be outside of the radius of convergence

Anonymous

And since d/dx sqrt(x) is a function of sqrt(x), you need your point to be a perfect square

Alex A.

@BrainSteel Once upon a time that would have been a safe assumption. ;)

flawr

8:53 PM

But if the argument gets greater, the approximation is converging faster as the derivatives become smaller.

Dennis

@quartata No clue. The challenge got a few downvotes after the OP suddenly changed its rules, but those changes were reverted and at least I removed my downvote. The OP even suggested some edits to re-revise the scoring of the answers.

flawr

Let's agree that we will not use an approximation via trigonometric polynomials=)

VoteToClose

It was a well received challenge.

flawr

@SuperJedi224 Again regarding continued fractions: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

VoteToClose

+18 upvotes total.

flawr

8:56 PM

@SuperJedi224 I also recommend reading the corresponding chapter in An introdcution to the theory of numbers by Hardy and Wright.

Dennis

@VoteToClose Overall, yes. Maybe it's easier to take 3 downvotes personal than 18 upvotes...

VoteToClose

shrug My first challenge attempt got 5 down votes. Mainly because I didn't know how to use the site.

flawr

@SuperJedi224 The important part starts about at p137 archive.org/stream/…

VoteToClose

El'endia Starman

@VoteToClose Was this the first SE site you participated in?

VoteToClose

9:01 PM

...well, it's where I got the site bonus from.

El'endia Starman

ahh, okay

flawr

@VoteToClose Why did your rep fall so much shortly after? 0.o

VoteToClose

I put up a bounty like an idiot. :D

El'endia Starman

I was wondering that too.

ahh, lolz

Anonymous

El'endia Starman

9:02 PM

Aaand there's the reverse. :P

Anonymous

:P

El'endia Starman

Mine looks very different.

flawr

I still wonder why we cannot exchange rep to money.

El'endia Starman

@flawr Do you want to destroy the system?

flawr

I mean, there ust be a reason why it is called StockExchange?

VoteToClose

9:03 PM

This is my entire rep history.

El'endia Starman

@VoteToClose Oct 30...I have great pity for you.

VoteToClose

I actually mortarboarded - I was downvoted post-mortarboard.

Anonymous

Life is good

El'endia Starman

haha, nice

VoteToClose

9:05 PM

There we go.

El'endia Starman

@flawr ...I'm honestly not sure if you're making a joke or not.

VoteToClose

Anonymous

I've gotten Nice Question on all 3 of my questions :D

flawr

I mean, I'd even accept a 1$ = 1rep exchange rate.

Or how about 1rep = 1bitcoin?

Anonymous

@flawr I would accept the hell out of that

Anonymous

9:07 PM

Man Dennis would be ballin

4

El'endia Starman

@flawr More so for this.

flawr

Hm I think I should be more active on stockoverflow then.

VoteToClose

@Mego Same. :D

Beta Decay

The "etc" is what I'm worried about. — Peter Taylor 19 mins ago

@PeterTaylor What about if I limited it to Windows, Linux and OSX?

Anonymous

@BetaDecay I'd say limit it to just a Linux executable

Anonymous

9:09 PM

That way there's consistency in the outputs

Anonymous

And since Linux is free and easy to run in a VM, "I don't run that" isn't a valid excuse

Beta Decay

Oh okay

VoteToClose

@SuperJedi224 Thanks, m8. :D

SuperJedi224

Okay, I'm back.

Anonymous

Hi back

SuperJedi224

9:19 PM

@VoteToClose What exactly are you thanking me for?

El'endia Starman

@Mego Ah, you must have children. :P

VoteToClose

Fixing my post. :D

Anonymous

@El'endiaStarman Only cats

Doorknob

@trichoplax and @MartinBüttner have been appointed as protem mods on Computer Graphics, congrats!

El'endia Starman

Wow, congrats @trichoplax and @MartinBüttner!

SuperJedi224

9:26 PM

Congratulations.

Anonymous

Congrats noobs

VoteToClose

Heh. Has anyone seen where I marked my location?

Anonymous

@VoteToClose ???

VoteToClose

In the profile thingydooda.

Anonymous

> thingydooda

2

Anonymous

9:27 PM

Clever

SuperJedi224

I really need a new axe, but I left my entire supply of iron and cobble back at the house and I'd rather not bother with a wooden one.

VoteToClose

wooden-axes-are-for-pansies

El'endia Starman

@SuperJedi224 Where are you that you can't just mine some rock? :P

SuperJedi224

In the middle of a desert

VoteToClose

Anonymous

9:28 PM

@El'endiaStarman He might not have a pick

El'endia Starman

Dig down.

Anonymous

Dig straight down

VoteToClose

In a 1x1.

SuperJedi224

@Mego No.

VoteToClose

Go towards the sound of bubbles - they're friendly. :D

Anonymous

9:29 PM

@Mego Yes.

2

SuperJedi224

I guess I'm heading back anyway, I just met a villager priest and I have some rotten flesh to sell him. At home.

VoteToClose

to-ping-oneself-is-to-be-alone :c @VoteToClose

Anonymous

Just wait around for a zombie

Beta Decay

Wait, what does protem mean? @Doorknob

flawr

What are pansies?

SuperJedi224

9:30 PM

@BetaDecay pro tempore

Anonymous

Flowers

Beta Decay

@SuperJedi224 What does that mean?

Doorknob

@BetaDecay ^^^

SuperJedi224

Roughly, "for the time being"

VoteToClose

@flawr It's typically used as a derogatory word, like scaredy-cat, but I'm making fun of it for my purposes.

El'endia Starman

9:31 PM

Appointed by StackExchange temporarily.

Until elections.

Doorknob

It means temporary. Moderators are elected during beta pro tempore, and then real elections happen after graduation.

why is everyone fast

Beta Decay

@Doorknob You've been a protem mod for ages though

Haven't you?

Doorknob

@BetaDecay It means "temporary" as in "not forever."

flawr

@El'endiaStarman *StockExchange FTFY

Doorknob

Elected mods never get un-elected (unless they step down or SE has to fire them, which is extremely rare)

Protem mods lose their diamonds at the end of the beta period

VoteToClose

9:32 PM

> Why is everyone on speed 1m ago Doorknob

Beta Decay

Ahh that makes sense

El'endia Starman

@Doorknob Most get them back in the election.

flawr

How about the contra-tempore mods?

VoteToClose

Alright. I'm going to bed now.

SuperJedi224

I just found a really deep hole in the middle of the desert.

El'endia Starman

9:33 PM

It's only 4:30ish!

(I kid, I know it's nighttime wherever you are.)

flawr

@SuperJedi224 Where the f*** are you?

SuperJedi224

Playing minecraft.

Also, EST.

PhiNotPi

> the middle of the desert

Beta Decay

Hotel California

flawr

Such a lovely place.

SuperJedi224

9:36 PM

Darn creepers.

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^ always and forever

flawr

I don't get what's going on.

Doorknob

^

quartata

Hello

SuperJedi224

gathers 255 rotten flesh from a chest

I wonder how many of these I'll actually be able to sell

El'endia Starman

9:39 PM

@flawr Minecraft.

SuperJedi224

Hi, @quartata

El'endia Starman

Creepers go boom, you get rotten flesh from zombies (and can sell them), and the world is a very, very large flat world with a variety of biomes, including deserts.

quartata

@Doorknob Because it wouldn't be polite and I don't want to get banned

Doorknob

hey @quartata, /dev/null/nethack has started :P

quartata

Maybe if it wasn't my message

@Doorknob Yeah I know

Doorknob

9:41 PM

@quartata go ahead

quartata

I haven't been keeping up with it really

Who even made weshouldblamedoorknob.tk anyways

3

To whoever made it: Yes yes I would read the source code. I'm doing fine.

5

SuperJedi224

Just found a desert temple burried in the sand.

Waterflame - New Dawn (HD)

►

ಠ_ಠ

@quartata But why would you read the source code?

quartata

9:50 PM

@ಠ_ಠ Because I was interesting in seeing how it was done.

I forgot <marquee> was a thing

flawr

@ಠ_ಠ Why wouldn't he? ಠ_ಠ

El'endia Starman

@quartata Same. :P

I was a little confused to see no Javascript, then I noticed the <marquee>s.

Doorknob

I'm surprised it's not wrapped in <blink> tags too

flawr

Haha, marquee was about the first thing I discoverd when getting into HTML.

El'endia Starman

It's a good beginner thing.

......that's about all it's good for.

ಠ_ಠ

9:51 PM

@Doorknob Blink tags do not work anymore in most browsers.

Doorknob

@El'endiaStarman no it's not ಠ_ಠ

ಠ_ಠ

In contrast to marquee.

Doorknob

@ಠ_ಠ this is very fortunate

@ಠ_ಠ (this is not)

quartata

I have my suspicions as to who made this

TimmyD

w3.org/wiki/HTML/Elements/marquee

ಠ_ಠ

9:52 PM

@quartata DO YOU?

quartata

Their name begins with ಠ and ends with _ಠ

TimmyD

ಠquartata_ಠ

Martin Büttner

@Doorknob Thank you (cc @El'endiaStarman @SuperJedi224) :)

ಠ_ಠ

Hm you mean ಠAlexA._ ಠ ?

quartata

Oh and their name is 3 characters long.

flawr

9:52 PM

^

ಠ_ಠ

@quartata I know who: _ಠಠ

Doorknob

@quartata /me invents encoding that contains the characters ಠAl, exA, and ._ಠ

quartata

...in UTF-16!

Doorknob

Ok, I'll call my encoding UTF-16!

completely separate from UTF-16

TimmyD

ಠUTF-16_ಠ

quartata

9:54 PM

And UTF-8 for that matter. Chars not bytes.

Now you have to make two character encodings.

SuperJedi224

Surprisingly, he was willing to buy nearly my entire supply.

Only gave me 7 emeralds though.

feersum

UTF-16 factorial

?

That would explain how there are so many characters.

SuperJedi224

I just sold 200+ rotten flesh to a villager cleric.

Doorknob

@feersum UTF-20922789888000

ಠ_ಠ

^

quartata

9:55 PM

@Doorknob UTF-ಠ_ಠ

3

feersum

That would be useful to have.

ಠ_ಠ

Hmm, then I should start working.

feersum

To apply to someone who writes a code-golf question scored in characters.

quartata

ಠ_ಠ can be encoded in 1 byte.

Doorknob

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ too

ಠ_ಠ

9:56 PM

You know I always wanted to have colours encoded in UTF-ಠ_ಠ

quartata

@Doorknob yass

ಠ_ಠ

As well as animations.

El'endia Starman

@SuperJedi224 GIMME THOSE EMERALDS!

goes super-El'endia

ಠ_ಠ

Basically each character will be a mini-movie

No more need for gifs.

SuperJedi224

@El'endiaStarman The problem with that is that I'm currently playing my local survival save

El'endia Starman

9:57 PM

(I'm making a reference to Sonic the Hedgehog.)

SuperJedi224

Why is it that the closest village to actually have a priest is so darn far from my house?

El'endia Starman

You chose...poorly.

ಠ_ಠ

Choosers can't be beggars.

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