English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-11-16 (page 3 of 4)

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9:00 PM

That they would be prepared to hand out flyers at a zoo for that!

And that they would have time for that, with kids and all!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus well, yes, that is quite surprising. But then Mr. Shiny and New has time for kids, his wife, a job, EL&U and Lego!

user19161

@MattЭллен Probably not you cos I checked that day I think.

user19161

I actually suspected Jeff himself might have done it, hehe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kit, Canadians think Americans put up a lot of flags because Americans put up a lot of flags. Maybe only in comparison to Canadians, who never put up flags, but let's just say that a house with a Canadian flag is a rarity and a house with more than one is non-existent.

of course not ALL americans put up flags. But it FEELS that way, sometimes.

user19161

I WILL TYPE LIKE @MRS

Matt Эллен

9:04 PM

@JasperLoy well, I checked the ones I could and I didn't vote on them. Good questions or answers, though. :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Is there a problem with caps for emphasis? Some rule somewhere?

user19161

@MattЭллен That's why this is a mystery.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That wasn't the joke though. The joke was that we couldn't remember what country we lived in, so that's why we did it.

Americans do have a lot of flags.

Canadians have a lot of hockey.

@MattЭллен But he is God.

Just a matter of what we decorate with.

user19161

9:06 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Eh, nope. But you can use all and feels for instance.

And so is Kit.

Me? What?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy yeah but that's more typing. And I use italics for actions in this chat room. waves hand

You have time to work and raise children and entertain guests and be here!

user19161

@Cerberus No. Alain is God, remember? You declared him so a few months ago. It's in the transcript.

Matt Эллен

9:07 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I hereby decree that only italics are allowed to be used to indicate emphasis. This is in effect pre and post hoc. *

*unless you want to ignore it

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ Well, no self-respecting Canadian overlooks an opportunity to make fun of Americans if they can get away with it. :)

@MattЭллен WHAT?

@JasperLoy Oh, well, yes; but I am polytheistic.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Naturally.

user19161

@Cerberus I am not polyamorous.

9:08 PM

@Cerberus Oh damn! Children! I knew I forgot something.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ What can I say? someone needs to keep order around here!

@MattЭллен Shouldn't that be ante hoc?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus maybe, I was just guessing

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, it should be ANTE HOC

Matt Эллен

:O

9:09 PM

Ad hoc.

Matt Эллен

heathen!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, dear!

What have you done!

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ perhaps that would be better :D only apply rules when you feel like it

user19161

Jefromi, Houston, TX

132 5

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 antioc?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:10 PM

@MattЭллен Is that where the Grail is?

user19161

This 1 yr old user just left a comment on meta even though I've never seen him around!

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 it is where the holy hand grenade came from

@JasperLoy Better flog him.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Ah yes. Good for smiting thine enemies, oh LORD.

user19161

It's interesting how Mr. Shiny is pinged as a @Mrs.

Matt Эллен

9:13 PM

@Kitḫ I can't believe I only just noticed you breaking the rule. Some judge/jury/executioner I am!

No caps allowed at all?

Matt Эллен

you can use caps, just not for emphasis

user19161

@MattЭллен unless you are in the typewriter era

What if I want to emphasise the first letter of my sentence, so that it is plain to see that I am starting a new one?

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy ante hoc, so they're all in trouble!

9:14 PM

im knackered tonight. gonna go to bed!

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus then call it something else, like ... a punctuation rule.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Sleep well.

user19161

@Jez Goodnight!

Matt Эллен

nightoh, @Jez

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 You too!

user19161

9:16 PM

Then Reg says "Stop monitoring my sleep".

Later, peeps!

@MattЭллен Hmm... but I see no punctuation? No stops. Just a capital.

Night Jez!

user19161

@Cerberus or a city

You're not going too, Kit?

user19161

@Cerberus Probably heading home.

9:18 PM

Hmm.

user19161

@Cerberus I'm still here. Woof!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Me too, for now. I have Chinese class tonight.

Which ironically means I work later.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I like Chinese.

user19161

I hate Chinese.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus space is punctuation, but can you see it? The act of capitalisation is an act of punctuation. It's barely syntax, certainly not semantic, at the start of a sentence.

9:19 PM

I prefer any other Asian cuisine.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

in War Metal Tyrant, Oct 12 at 12:00, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

I like big butts, they only come up to your knees, yet they're always friendly, and they're ready to please.

user19161

I hate Chinese restaurant food too.

@MattЭллен I'm not sure. Is spacing punctuation?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus yes

user19161

@Cerberus Punctuation is not well-defined. For example, you can bundle capitalisation with it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:20 PM

@MattЭллен I'm not sure. Depends on how you define punctuation.

Matt Эллен

Matt earns the badge __undue authority__

It could indeed be argued that spaces are punctuation, because they punctuate the flow of speech. Though I am as yet undecided myself.

user19161

But most punctuation guides treat spacing and capitalisation as well.

Certainly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus spaces don't punctuate speech.

9:21 PM

No?

Why not?

Matt Эллен

they punctuate it if you leave them in

most people don't speak with spaces

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Speech doesn't have punctuation. Writing has punctuation.

Matt Эллен

James T. Kirk, on the other hand...

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Well, perhaps; but it is ultimately based on puncturing speech with pauses.

Of course modern punctuation is only partly based on speech pauses any more.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Obviously you've never been on Xbox Live, or World of Warcraft.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:24 PM

@Cerberus but the spaces in written writing do not really represent spoken pauses. We put spaces to separate words. Speakers can add pauses or speak slowly or more quickly but it's not really the same thing at all.

@RegDwightѬſ道 actually no, I haven't.

Are you saying that because I claim that writing has punctuation, when in your experience it doesn't? :)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Well, let me tell you that people there use the n-word for punctuation all the time.

Matt Эллен

lol

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I didn't say it was a one-to-one relation.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 where is there?

But arguably half of our stops correspond to pauses.

user19161

9:25 PM

@Cerberus one-on-one or one-to-one?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JasperLoy XBL, WoW, other unholy places.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 No gaming for me.

user19161

One-on-one sounds very holy.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus But it's only really loosely related. In writing there are rules for how you space out words. There are no rules for how you indicate speaking speed or pauses in writing.

Matt Эллен

pauses are indicated by commas and fullstops

user19161

9:27 PM

Larry Trask is of the school that says commas are distinct from pauses.

user19161

No need for perfect correspondence.

Matt Эллен

well, then commas are pointless for him

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен SOME pauses are, sometimes.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I was just saying punctuation was originally based on pauses and still corresponds to pauses to some degree.

user19161

@MattЭллен They matter but are just different.

Matt Эллен

9:28 PM

meh

user19161

@Cerberus Yes, the key word here is some.

There is probably also some relation between spaces and smaller pauses.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus but the SPACES are not really part of that.

Matt Эллен

they indicate a place where your thought has to change, which gives you pause.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

uhoh

* the spaces

user19161

9:28 PM

It's OK.

Yikes!

Matt Эллен

:D

user19161

And OK should be typed OK and not ok. OK is OK but ok is not OK.

Matt Эллен

it's OK, I just thought you were shouting

Well, we normally pause between words sooner than within them, I should think?

user19161

9:29 PM

It originated as OK and then became okay.

Matt Эллен

like, maybe you have tourettes or something

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Abso-frigging-lutely!

user19161

Similarly DJ became deejay.

@RegDwightѬſ道 sticks out tongues

user19161

And diesel was actually Diesel.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:30 PM

@JasperLoy and then deejane.

Matt Эллен

and then dojo

and now they're all kung fu fighting

user19161

And bikini was an island.

Matt Эллен

actually an atoll

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Do we pause between words? I'm not really sure. Depends on how we are speaking. Sometimes we might pause between syllables.

Matt Эллен

not that I know what an atoll is!

9:31 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 The relation is probably even weaker than with commas.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I am dominating the dojo!

user19161

I dunno much about an atom either.

user19161

I dunno what dojo is, but I know dodo bird.

user19161

The dodo (Raphus cucullatus) was a flightless bird endemic to the Indian Ocean island of Mauritius. Related to pigeons and doves, it stood about a meter (3.3 feet) tall, weighing about , living on fruit, and nesting on the ground. The dodo has been extinct since the mid-to-late 17th century. It is commonly used as the archetype of an extinct species because its extinction occurred during recorded human history and was directly attributable to human activity. The phrase "" means undoubtedly and unquestionably dead, while the phrase "" means to become extinct or obsolete, to fall...

Imagine you ware shouting a sentence across a lake.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:32 PM

@Cerberus Yeah, I might pause between each syllable, depending on the words.

YOU. WOULD. DO. IT. LIKE. THIS.

user19161

I see Jimmy Wales's lovely face every year in Nov and Dec.

BUT. YOU. WOULD. PRONOUNCE. MOST. WORDS. WHOLE. EVEN. WHEN THEY. ARE. LONGER.

user19161

Last year there was this pretty girl besides Jimmy too. Wonder who it will be this year.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus maybe.

9:34 PM

Well, I'm arguing for the sake of argument.

hello everyone

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

maybe you should turn this into a blog post

It doesn't really matter. I was trying to bureaucratically destroy Matt's Rule from the inside.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

for our blog

Hi!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:35 PM

HELLO BILLY MAYS HERE

Heh.

Jesus, what did we feed the owl again?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Troll.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus whyIoughta shakes fist

user19161

@JSBᾶngs hi mr portabello

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Don't feed the owl the troll.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:36 PM

I think he's been nibbling on the ABS plastic again

Not those red and yellow pills we used to give to grandma before she went gaga at age 55?

ABS?

Matt Эллен

@RegDwightѬſ道 don't feed the owl the troll what?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it's what LEGO is made of

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Antiblockiersystem.

@MattЭллен formal apology

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:36 PM

Antiblockiersystem

Das Antiblockiersystem (ABS), in der StVZO „Automatischer Blockierverhinderer“ (ABV) genannt, ist ein vorwiegend in Kraftfahrzeugen, aber auch in Eisenbahnen und Flugzeugfahrwerken verwendetes technisches System zur Verbesserung der Fahrsicherheit und zur Minderung von Verschleiß an den Laufflächen der Räder. Es wirkt bei starkem Bremsen einem möglichen Blockieren der Räder durch Verminderung des Bremsdrucks entgegen. Hierdurch ermöglicht ABS beim Bremsen von Kraftfahrzeugen und Flugzeugen eine bessere Lenkbarkeit und Spurtreue. Außerdem kann das System über die Regelung des Radschlupfs d...

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's what I immediately thought of too!

I didn't even know it stood for anti-blokkeersysteem.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't speak that gibberish.

this room is extremely confusing right now, and i'm one of the regulars here

kudos to everyone

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MattЭллен No tritransitivity in this chat.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Nah, it's clearly the PC.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:37 PM

@JSBᾶngs this room is extremely regular, and I'm one of the confusing here.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ahh that is yummy indeed!

@JSBᾶngs Reg is onto something. Or, rather, on something.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus formal acceptance

He licked his car's ABS.

@MattЭллен Woohoo!

Yay!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ische 'abe gar keine Auto, signorina!

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 anti-lock braking system, I believe

9:38 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 Passes bottle of anti-freeze.

Or whatever they call anti-vries these days.

@Cerberus well that, at least, seems to be pretty regular

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs I suppose it is! He keeps missing the mouse, it seems.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Anti-vlies?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен :) I gathered

Matt Эллен

9:39 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 he's no Anthony Stewart Head

@RegDwightѬſ道 Flies is not proper Dutch.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Vliesstoff (auch kurz Vlies) ist ein textiles Flächengebilde aus einzelnen Fasern. Im Gegensatz dazu werden Gewebe, Gestricke und Gewirke aus Garnen hergestellt und Membranen aus Folien. In einigen Publikationen wird der aus Wolle hergestellte Filz zu den Vliesstoffen gezählt. In der ungültigen Norm DIN 61210 wurde noch genau zwischen den jeweils speziellen Begriffen für verschiedene Arten von vliesstoffähnlichen Produkten unterschieden. Die Vliesstoff-Industrie ist jedoch ein relativ junger Industriebereich, während das Filzhandwerk schon einige Jahrhunderte besteht. Somit haben sich au...

@Cerberus typo

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I didn't think you actually typed stuff anymore. I figured you more for a copy-and-paste kinda guy.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Also, we've long established that a) nothing is proper Dutch except ananas, and b) even ananas ain't proper Dutch cause Dutch doesn't exist.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Umm I think that's what we call fleece in Dutch.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:41 PM

@Cerberus Anglicisms!!!!

But both DE and NL (poor Matt) have fleece and vliesstof/nonwoven each!

@RegDwightѬſ道 I know.

@Cerberus but naturally the germans, unwilling to call anything by a mere monosyllable, must call it "fleece-stuff"

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

phew!

But the stuff is so unfashionable it doesn't even matter what people call it. You just don't wear it.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hey you know that I can wait another minute :P

9:42 PM

@JSBᾶngs Yeah that's cute, isn't it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightѬſ道 yeah I was just thinking that :)

Actually I was wondering if I'd be able to un-quote it, it was more of an experiment than a protest against your edit

Matt Эллен

Get back here you hooligans! Stealing my language!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs Noöne calls it that. It's just Flies.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs in Chinese, it would be fleece-[child/thing/noun-suffix]

@RegDwightѬſ道 That is lovely, but why the huge cups? Not very Italian!

user19161

9:43 PM

0

Q: key thob and key fob

I've been receiving emails at work inquiring about registering our key fobs. This is slightly disturbing to me as I've always called it a key thob. An internet search for thob tells me I really mean fob, but if I force it to search for thob instead, it finds plenty of results (1.1 million for tho...

user19161

too local

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus I suppose that must be the reason why the campaign has been taken off the air.

That must be it, surely.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Don't call me Surely.

@RegDwightѬſ道 it's flies? you can't even distinguish between textiles and tiny flying insects?

9:44 PM

@Cerberus tries to hide fleece scarf

It is otherwise perfect.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs Not me. Ze Dschömans.

@aediaλ Oh, no! looks the other way

user19161

@Cerberus huge cups? LOL

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Also, flies are Fliegen, as you well know.

9:45 PM

@JasperLoy They are!

@RegDwightѬſ道 *vliegen

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And then there's always fließ.

And Fleiß.

Matt, say something about Reg's caps! It's not fair!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And Fleisch.

Fleiß = industry/diligence?

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus whu? he's not using them for emphasis

RegDwight Ѭſ道

9:46 PM

@Cerberus Industry???

user19161

@MattЭллен who

@MattЭллен But they freak me out!

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 industry=diligence

> n. manufacturing, trade; group of companies which produce a particular product; diligence, perseverance, tendency to work hard

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ah, that industry.

Yeah, that industry.

user19161

9:46 PM

@Cerberus too late

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 too late

user19161

I win both rounds.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ohne Fleiß kein Preis!

But wait.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy you misread my whu? it's an interjection indicating confusion.

9:47 PM

no, no. clearly vliesstoff is fleece-stuff, flies is flies, and fließ is fleas. it couldn't be any simpler

Isn't Fließ just fleece?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I thought I had a handle on this room until I blinked for a second and now I'm lost. LOST!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

user image

Never blink in the face of ELU or your fate is sealed!

Matt Эллен

I always look away from the screen before blinking

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:48 PM

speaking of Lost, I had a dream

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs Sure it could. Way simpler, in fact.

Aug 4 at 19:18, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ananas ananas Ananas ananas ananas ananas Ananas ananas.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, pray tell.

Ah, Fließ is from fließen, I see.

Matt Эллен

of course!

And Fluß. Or is it Fluss?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:49 PM

I dreamt that Rand, from Wheel of time, was depressed and surrounded by Darkfriends who were adopting children. But Hurley, from LOST, was in a hardware store trying to find supplies so that he could fulfill the prophecy and become the Dough-boy, and lead the Sand-People from Tattooine in battle against the Dark One.

No, Fluß.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus fließ is the imperative of fließen, to flow.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

For some reason the prophecy involved spears and duct-tape.

@RegDwightѬſ道 But with a capital it is something that flows, right?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Fluß is obviously etymologically related.

9:50 PM

Dictionary says conveyor belt.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Dictionary sez wrong.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 your dreams are far superior to mine

No!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh! Gotta go AFK for some time.

Laters

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Sounds complicated but I don't watch LOST.

9:50 PM

finally. things might settle down here now

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JSBᾶngs well, this was one of my more interesting dreams.

@JasperLoy Well, Hurley was the fat one.

Matt Эллен

cya @RegDwight

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

actually on the show he was a star wars fan.

user19161

I always have dreams of flying without wings, literally. I fly for about half an hour passing all kinds of people and places and then I wake up.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's funny because my dreams don't normally involve recognizable characters, nor do they mix universes like that.

9:52 PM

BRB

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 oh man, the copyright suits you'll be in for!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy I rarely do that. But sometimes I realize I am dreaming and then I command myself to fly.

user19161

Dreams are just random associations which should not be taken seriously to mean anything.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен what's funny is that my story is not that much more random that some of the stuff in Lost or Star Wars.

Matt Эллен

indeed!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:53 PM

@JasperLoy That's a very un-Jasper-y statement.

user19161

Similarly ngrams should not be taken too seriously too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I expected something more mystical from you

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Though one's dreams as in one's aspirations should be taken seriously, to add. That is mysticism for you!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy But isn't there something representational about your physical dreams and your goals? Maybe you dream of flying as a metaphor for something in your life!

(not that I usually ascribe meaning to dreams)

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I think there might be a biological explanation for the sensation of flying when you are sleeping.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:55 PM

@JasperLoy Sure, it's the same as all your other dream sensations.

Matt Эллен

it's been fun, but I must rest. Good Night!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I think my Wheel of Lost Star Wars dream is trying to tell me to get working on my next book.

user19161

I answered the key thob question but converted it into a comment when I remembered Mr. Shiny's meta post!

user19161

@MattЭллен Night!

user19161

So many people are writing books here. Maybe I should try to start one too.

user19161

9:57 PM

Or maybe just a blog.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy yay!

Well, I should go too. I have some things to do before my class. bye everyone.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Bye!

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