English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

user19161

12:07 AM

OK fans may upvote now since it is past 0000 GMT.

Matt Эллен

11:17 AM

Good morning

z7sg Ѫ

Hi

Matt Эллен

Hello @z7sg :)

z7sg Ѫ

DO you know if there's a museum of eggcorns somewhere?

I've found another one for the collection

Matt Эллен

I do not.

what is it?!

z7sg Ѫ

Saw someone write "the shit will hit the van"

Matt Эллен

11:19 AM

LOL

maybe they had an elaborate trap set up

z7sg Ѫ

Eggcorn

In linguistics, an eggcorn is an idiosyncratic substitution of a word or phrase for a word or words that sound similar or identical in the speaker's dialect. The new phrase introduces a meaning that is different from the original, but plausible in the same context, such as "old-timers' disease" for "Alzheimer's disease". This is as opposed to a malapropism, where the substitution creates a nonsensical phrase. Classical malapropisms generally derive their comic effect from the fault of the user, while eggcorns are errors that exhibit creativity or logic. Eggcorns often involve replacing an u...

Matt Эллен

Ah I see. I remember nohat posting about them

z7sg Ѫ

@MattЭллен i asked if it was a riot van, they said no, a camper

Matt Эллен

:D

z7sg Ѫ

eggcorns.lascribe.net

eggcorn db

Matt Эллен

11:22 AM

nice

z7sg Ѫ

are you going to the geek night?

Matt Эллен

I shall be there.

I'm looking forward to it, not having gone to the last one.

@z7sgѪ Will you be attending?

z7sg Ѫ

yeah i will probably go to

it

Matt Эллен

I'm looking forward to hearing about building Babbage's machine :)

hahaha - I like the ilk -> elk eggcorn :D

"Sarah Palin and her elk"

I wonder what she calls it

z7sg Ѫ

shaggy

they do have elk in alaska though yeah?

Matt Эллен

11:33 AM

I don't know if they get that far north. Probably though. They have them in Canadia

Hi, @JasperLoy :)

user19161

@MattЭллен Boo! I might even get 10k by the end of Nov instead of Dec!

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy It's a definite possiblity

I'm aiming for early/mid 2013

user19161

@MattЭллен possibility

user19161

@MattЭллен The world might end in 2012, not a bad thing for me actually.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy I hope so

@JasperLoy I am certain that it won't

By 2013 I hope to have a good grasp of the community, so I should be worthy of the 10K tools

user19161

11:39 AM

@MattЭллен I think you already have. Seriously I think they should do away with the 15k and 20k privileges and just end at 10k. It's hard enough to get 10k.

user19161

I answered 34 questions in two weeks, whoo!

Matt Эллен

Good work!

user19161

But seriously what's the fuss about the copyright issues? Nobody's making money out of it at the expense of someone else.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy Yeah, although I think it gets easier to earn rep once you hit 10K - people up vote you old answers from months ago. Just look as Kosmonaut's rep! He's not answered in ages.

user19161

I think that guy probably did not even think about copyright issues at all, just trying to write a script as an exercise in programming maybe.

user19161

11:43 AM

@MattЭллен Actually rep is deceiving. Usually trivial answers get the most rep and complicated answers the least.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy I think the problem is that if we let it slid once then it's easier to let it slide in the future, and people want to protect their rights

user19161

Single word requests attract plenty of attention and these usually earn the most rep.

z7sg Ѫ

it's pretty easy to get rep on this xchange

it's a lot harder on SO

at least now all the dumb questions have been asked

user19161

I'm here mainly to enjoy myself.

z7sg Ѫ

it actually discourages me from engaging over there

user19161

11:45 AM

The questions can be quite fun to answer.

Matt Эллен

@z7sgѪ True. I asked a question but did not get a single up vote on it (on SO). I thought it was a decent question. I was pleased with the answer, so that balances things out.

z7sg Ѫ

i'm here to avoid work

3

user19161

The bookstore just told me my copy of The Blue Book of Grammar and Punctuation has arrived so I will pick it up tmr.

Matt Эллен

@z7sgѪ Yeh - I've been thinking about going back and answering things, but I get more +ve reinforcement here

user19161

I'm glad I don't have to pay for extra shipment by getting from Amazon.

z7sg Ѫ

11:47 AM

@MattЭллен i've answered a question on there, put some effort in, got a grateful comment saying "thanks so much this has solved my problem!" but not a single upvote and the guy never marked it correct

Matt Эллен

@z7sgѪ aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh! so frustrating

user19161

@z7sgѪ Some don't know how SE works.

user19161

And sometimes an answer is accepted but not upvoted by the OP, weird.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy unregistered users cannot upvote

user19161

Of course there are lots of weird people here, like me.

Matt Эллен

11:48 AM

so maybe that is the case

z7sg Ѫ

@MattЭллен on some of the sites there are some old hands, probably insecure people, who attack noobs.

user19161

@MattЭллен But they can accept? I dunno.

z7sg Ѫ

it's annoying cos there are quite a few high rep users on there who just answer loads of questions badly

and think that rep means shit. it means nothing.

@JasperLoy they just don't know how it works.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy yep, they can accept, comment on answers to their question, comment on their question, edit their question and answer their question. they can't vote

user19161

I think I've heard this special version of Flying without wings 200 times already. For those who missed it...

user19161

11:51 AM

►

user19161

It has an extra guy singing and extra high notes.

Matt Эллен

@z7sgѪ Yeah - I often see people with more rep than me and I'm beginning to wonder if rep on SO is as valuable as it used to be.

z7sg Ѫ

@MattЭллен it doesn't mean much. there are a lot of smart people and there are also a lot of Thursagens

Matt Эллен

:D yeah

user19161

And Thursagans.

z7sg Ѫ

11:53 AM

omg don't ;)

user19161

Initially I thought it was the same account, I didn't see the different vowel.

Matt Эллен

I think that (at the moment) English.se's high rep users are quality, smart people.

once I'm at 10K, who knows?

user19161

Why do people always choose CDMA in wheel of fortune?

user19161

And it has been Vanna White and Pat Sajack for like my whole life!

Matt Эллен

cognitive bias?

user19161

11:55 AM

Which is cool.

user19161

I wonder if there is some study to show they are the most common letters in that game context.

user19161

I love it when they choose CDMA and no extra letter shows up!

Matt Эллен

perhaps! It'd be interesting to see, from a game theory perspective

user19161

Actually that last round is a bit like the single word requests here!

Matt Эллен

:D

this looks interesting: meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/2156/…

who will win?

I hope it's us!

Kitḫ

12:46 PM

@MattЭллен I liked the discussion on Math.SE. That's pretty much how I feel.

Matt Эллен

12:58 PM

@Kitḫ that's a shame. I think that trying to apply the game mechanic, that drives the SE system, at a higher (as in, applies to the site rather than the individuals), more obvious level is a good idea. Calling the sites "research oriented" is just marketing speak. It's not important. Encouraging current users to ask more (and ideally better) questions is a positive move. The site is already a competition about answers, so adding to that wouldn't work.

I often need impetus to ask a question here :)

also hello @Kit :)

Kitḫ

Hello!

Jez

1 hour ago, by z7sg Ѫ

i'm here to avoid work

Kitḫ

I think the methodology is crap.

Jez

i'm here coz i aint got no work ;-)

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ how do you mean?

@Jez how are you enjoying redundancy?

Jez

1:00 PM

it's ok

Kitḫ

> To move on to the next round, the average number of questions each site asks per day during the round must exceed that site’s current average. Whichever site exceeds their average by more questions wins the round.

So they are going to check the average, which makes it fairer for smaller sites...

...but the winner is based on volume.

That's crap.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ that's a fair point. I think something based on a "good question" ratio would be better.

Kitḫ

Not to mention that it should be a percentage growth.

Otherwise, why bother to use averages?

Matt Эллен

aye, that would make sense

Kitḫ

> To determine who would face off in the first round, we seeded the sites according to past activity.

So brand new sites are paired with slow sites.

That's also not fair.

Matt Эллен

1:03 PM

because?

it seems ok to me.

Kitḫ

History is paired with Math.

Matt Эллен

if the site is poor in activity and is beaten by a new comer, that makes sense

Kitḫ

There is more low-hanging fruit with new sites.

user19161

@MattЭллен newcomer

Kitḫ

Not to mention that the whole thing smacks of "which SE sites are we going to shut down?"

user19161

1:05 PM

@Kitḫ The subjects which require most and least memory.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ right, but if the question volume increases substantially, the low hanging fruit will disappear pretty quickly.

@Kitḫ possible, but I don't see it.

user19161

@Jez The work ain't got no Jez.

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен But not before the older site gets bumped.

Matt Эллен

unless some of the sites in the competition have already been criticised for lacking enthusiasm

Kitḫ

Like us?

user19161

1:07 PM

I predict EL&U will have the greatest longevity.

user19161

sips tea

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ Really? I think Jeff criticised us for lacking quality, but he is only one voice. Plus no one can criticise us for lacking enthusiasm!

I'm pretty sure Joel is on our side

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен One very important voice who could simply kill the site.

Matt Эллен

silently

user19161

I mean if you look at the other chat rooms, they ain't got no life in them.

Kitḫ

1:08 PM

We are pretty awesome.

user19161

We are great at gossip and skiving.

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ yes he could, but he knows that a large portion of our users are also highly participative in other stacks and SO. he'd be cutting off his arm to spite his jacket.

Kitḫ

I think he is the kind of person who would do that.

Matt Эллен

:D

maybe so

@JasperLoy +1 you speak the truth!

user19161

@MattЭллен You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.

user19161

1:43 PM

@matt How was lunch? I changed back to wolf avatar. Woof!

Matt Эллен

:D so you have. I needed to refresh.

user19161

I used GIMP colorify to convert to black and white, just one step, really simple.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy Lunch was alright. how was dinner?

user19161

@MattЭллен OK. I had a double cheeseburger gotten with some free vouchers.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy mmmm! free lunch

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1:49 PM

Good morning all

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Buongiorno! being pretentious

Matt Эллен

hullo @MrShinyandNew :)

Kitḫ

Morning @MrShiny!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So I was reading about storing/sorting lego on bricks.se and there was a link to an old lugnet post (news.lugnet.com/storage/?n=707) which TOTALLY describes me. I'm at step 17.

Kitḫ

2:05 PM

That's funny.

Matt Эллен

Good work! A whole room full of Lego?

user19161

0

Q: What's the difference between a 'response' and a 'reply'?

As far as I understand, 'replies' are a subset of 'responses': A reply is a response in words or writing. However, Responses can take many different forms, e.g. when a country 'responds in force' to some perceived aggression. Is this correct? What is the difference?

differences

user19161

I tried to think of the similarities and differences for this one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MattЭллен Well, technically most of my lego is in long-term storage until my kids are older. But I have started filling up flat surfaces (bookshelves, window sills, etc) with models on display.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy well, the number and arrangement of letters...

response is a more general term

like "conditioned response"

reply is a type of response

user19161

2:09 PM

@MattЭллен These differences questions can be quite subtle. Perhaps I should not close them so readily. Well I looked them up and gave a brief answer. It seems that both can mean both.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jasper: do you have citations on the usage of those words? To me, they are synonymous

Kitḫ

I disagree that both mean both.

They overlap but are not synonymous.

Matt Эллен

stimulus response compatibility can never be stimulus reply compatibilty

Kitḫ

Right.

Jump on it, @Matt!

user19161

Right, but in principle the word can be replaced and it would sound awkward.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:11 PM

@MattЭллен Ah, right.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy no, in my above example it would be wrong

Kitḫ

Right. It would sound awkward because it is wrong.

Matt Эллен

:D

user19161

@MattЭллен Maybe take a look at my links and see what you think.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy Will do!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:12 PM

@JasperLoy your links for for verbs and the Q is for nouns

user19161

There are always a million and one exceptions to everything. It's just whether we can come up with them or not.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ya, but the noun and verb mean the same thing, if you know what I mean. I linked to the verb as there is more explanation there.

Kitḫ

Except that "respond" is a verb and "response" is a noun.

user19161

@Kitḫ Yes indeed, as mentioned above.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy but as Kit mentioned, there are uses of respond/response where you cannot put in reply/reply

If you jiggled your mouse and the cursor did not move, you wouldn't say "The computer is not replying"

so Matt, are you going to answer it?

or you, Kit?

Kitḫ

2:16 PM

Not it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

or Jasper, will you fix your answer? Because I think it's not quite accurate

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Come to think of it, yes I would not, but I would say it is acceptable. Now let me think...

Kitḫ

It is not acceptable. It is wrong.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy It is understandable but no native speaker would say it. So, on the wrongness scale it's not completely wrong, but mostly wrong.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I agree with you. I am no pineapple either. It's just that as you know I always stretch my imagination a lot.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

2:20 PM

@JasperLoy Sure, but this site is about English language and usage, not imaginary english language and possible-ussage-that-would-be-understood-even-if-your-listeners-look-at-you-askance :)

So is anyone fixing that question? Going once, twice....

Matt Эллен

@MrShinyandNew安宇 yes

I am doing that

user19161

You guys should reply if you want. I will continue to think about this.

user19161

@matt I would say my answer which is merely comparing the definitions listed is incomplete but not wrong. I mean, all answers are incomplete. But if I said there that something that is wrong is right then it would be wrong.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy aye, according to your definitions, response and reply are synonymous

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy Your answer is misleading in that it suggests that there is no real difference between the words. In fact, there is a difference, in that there are cases where you cannot use reply.

user19161

2:27 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm, I think I will delete it first then, hehe.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy want some downvotes, so you can get the peer-pressure badge? :)

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I've gotten it from the most interesting answer here, do you know about it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy no

user19161

5

Q: What is funny in this paraprosdokian?

I was reading the wiki page about paraprosdokians when I come across this sentence. One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas, I don't know. What is funny about it?

meaning figures-of-speech humor

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So, anyone here heard of "sleep talking man"? sleeptalkinman.blogspot.com/2011/11/nov-15-2011.html

user19161

2:30 PM

A paraprosdokian is funny because the second part causes the reader to reinterpret the first part.

Reading shot an elephant in my pyjamas initially would suggest that the author shot a real elephant while he was wearing pyjamas. However on reading the second part how he got in my pyjamas, one sees that the elephant was meant to be inside the pyjamas, in which case shot an elephant in my pyjamas could mean ejaculated (a large amount of) semen inside my pyjamas, since the elephant is a large animal. I don't know then refers to the fact that when he arose from sleep in the morning, he had no …

user19161

That is my deleted answer.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I can see why the downvotes.

user19161

I think I'll leave the reply response answer there first. Feel free to downvote.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Again a stretch of the imagination.

Matt Эллен

phew

0

A: What's the difference between a 'response' and a 'reply'?

I would say that a reply is a type of response. But that not all responses are replies. For example someone can have a response to a stimulus, such as a pin pick on their skin, which might be a reply James pricked Carol with a pin. Carol slapped James, in reply. The slap is also a response...

hope it's suitable/makes sense

I really must do some work!

user19161

2:37 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hilarious.

user19161

@MattЭллен Good! I will vote tmr. As usual I run out of votes by GMT 0100 cos I use all of them at GMT 0000.

Matt Эллен

3:08 PM

Yay! rep capped!

Kitḫ

@MattЭллен peck Nice!

Matt Эллен

@Kitḫ This is what I can achieve if I answer questions here instead of do programming ... ;)

Kitḫ

Hooray! No programming!

Oh shit! I should be programming!

Matt Эллен

:D quite!

oh! I think I can score 30 more from upvotes. I got 2 accepts, today.

Kitḫ

Looks like you are right.

Matt Эллен

3:19 PM

:O

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

3:46 PM

Cheese, or Font? cheeseorfont.com

Matt Эллен

I see! Tricksy

Matt Эллен

4:45 PM

I see they've cancelled the competition.

toodles!

Jez

OK guys, you're good at forms of words in English.

How can I 'gently' let a recruiter know that I don't want to work for this company: jemmac.com

On the basis that I think I'd really dislike working with most of them based on their 'our people' page?

I don't usually turn companies down on gut instinct, but I have a REALLY strong gut instinct here.

Any suggestions?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I'd just say something vague like "I don't think that company would be a good fit for me"

Jez

yeah i could try that but they'll probably ask for clarification; "why?"

to be honest they have a good reason for doing so; they don't want to send jobs to me i'll be uninterested in

but i get the feeling that they'll think i'm unreasonable if I tell them one of the criteria is "mustn't have staff bios that I think are bloody idiotic and/or offensive"

darn, wish more people were here with suggestions...

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…