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12:04 AM
@PhiNotPi, @TheBestOne: Ruby inspection, yes
Do we have MathJax in chat? Let's find out: $\frac{1}{2}$
Nope
Also, in case anyone cares: I finally broke 2,000 rep! Woot.
 
12:28 AM
@PhiNotPi: HELLO
 
hi
 
How's it going?
 
good
 
Cool
 
Cooler
 
12:30 AM
Coolest
 
I'm trying to find golf questions that are easily answered by Element, because I want to increase brand recognition.
 
Coolestest
 
n->println("Cool" * "est"^n)
 
The Best One
 
@PhiNotPi: Try Calvin's newest!
 
12:32 AM
Cool`_'[est`]
^ Element
The abundance of '`" characters can make it look weird sometimes.
 
Only if by "weird" you mean "intriguing."
 
@randomra Ahaha nice - I actually considered an answer using p, but actually using the input as mirrors is a great idea :P
 
Absolute zero
^ You can't get cooler than that
 
You can't get colder than that.
 
Or cooler.
 
12:48 AM
@PhiNotPi: You're a Perl fellow, right?
 
Kinda
That's what I wrote the Element interpreter in.
 
Would you be interested in contributing to the Perl submission to Calvin's language showcase challenge? It's a community wiki with 10 votes. I did the first 6 then realized I don't know enough Perl to keep it interesting. :/
 
1:04 AM
I added an Element answer, looking at Perl.
 
+1 to your Element answer
 
I have a question - I answered a question that was considered 'bad', and I'm getting downvotes for it. Should I keep my answer, or delete it?
 
Do you feel it's a bad answer?
 
@ASCIIThenANSI It's entirely up to you.
 
^What he said
 
1:15 AM
Personally, I think the guy was just looking for help (it was a question on beginner tips.) But even though the question is closed, I still get downvotes on my answer. Why?
 
Closed doesn't mean people can't vote on it. I can't really speak for why people are downvoting your answer though.
 
I'm not sure either. I gave a clear guide on some references he could use, which was exactly what he wanted.
 
@ASCIIThenANSI Because it should of been a comment in my opinion.
 
I agree with TheBestOne that it probably should have been a comment. (And indeed, it would be a helpful comment.)
 
Should I repost as a comment then?
 
1:20 AM
Sure
 
Up to you. Your answer may or may not continue to get downvoted (or upvoted--anything's possible) if you leave it there.
Actually don't bother
The info has been covered in other comments
 
@xnor D: damn
 
I did a length 10 snippet for Perl.
 
@PhiNotPi: Looks great!
@PhiNotPi: How old were you when you started programming?
 
1:36 AM
@Sp3000 is there a way to shorten the expression "1+\d%sots"%"d"[:n]?
 
@AlexA. I don't know. Early in middle school probably.
Maybe late elementary school.
 
WOW. What language did you start with?
 
Perl
Blame my dad.
 
Oh believe me, I do. I hold such a grudge against your father.
@Doorknob: Hello!
 
@AlexA. Hello!
 
1:39 AM
@Doorknob Would you like to tell us how you started programming?
 
(removed)
 
Sure. I started in, uh, 5th grade, I think. I found this huge Java book at the local bookstore and really wanted it for some reason. So my parents got it for me and I read the whole thing multiple times.
... I was a strange child :D
 
More like badass child. Wow.
 
@xnor Alternative 68 byte I see, nice. Can't think of anything on the spot though, but nice use of \\d -> \d
 
Anyway, Stack Overflow was actually a great resource and helped a ton (which is also how I happened to stumble upon PPCG as well).
 
1:42 AM
Should we bring back the interrobang‽
 
...what is that?
 
A question mark and exclamation point combined.
 
Where did it come from? Was it previously present, phased out, and now you're bringing it back?
 
⸘Es fantástico, no‽
 
分かりません
 
1:45 AM
So where would this be used? Just in programs, or for somewhere else?
 
@xnor If we do a bit of shuffling, we can get lambda n:"$$\\varphi=1+"+"\cfrac1{1+"*n+"\dd"[:n+2]+"ots"+"}"*n+"$$" - now the question is is there a better way of writing "\dd"[:n+2]? :P
 
In place of "?!". For example: "You did what‽"
 
@Sp3000: Is the escape necessary for v?
 
Yes, \v is ASCII 11 :/
 
@Doorknob: Can you teach me this black magic?
@Sp3000: Bummer.
 
1:47 AM
alt numbercode
 
@Doorknob Oh, I was thinking of the hashbang (#!). :|
 
£
wtf
 
@Sp3000 I'm not seeing one.
 
¡™£¢∞§¶•ªº–≠
 
@AlexA. Black magic‽ It's hardly black magic!
 
1:48 AM
I don't see anything. I pressed alt and then a number code.
 
ugh I reversed it again. compose key fail :P
 
What's the keycode?
 
and operator precedence prevents "ots"+"}"*n+"$$" from being "ots%s$$"%"}"*n
 
I'm holding Option (Mac's alt) and pressing everything.
 
Yeah, that was a problem last time too, damn :/
 
1:48 AM
I'm just typing it with the compose key.
 
Sometimes I wish % had higher precedence
 
compose + ! + ? → ‽
 
What is compose?
 
A linux thing :(
A compose key, whether already existent on the computer keyboard or designated to an existent key, is a modifier key used to input a number of characters that are not part of the official keyboard. Upon its use, it signals to the software to interpret the following keystrokes (usually two) as a combination to produce an alternate character. For example, striking Compose, followed by ~, and then n will produce the character ñ; striking Compose, followed by O, and then C will produce the copyright symbol ©. == Key details == The compose key's behavior differs from typical modifier key behavior (such...
 
A wonderful key that lets you combine stuff like t and m to get ™ and ' and a to get á and ! and ! to get ¡ and so on.
 
1:50 AM
Sigh.
 
You can make arrows (- > = →), music notes (# q = ♩, # e = ♪, etc.), math symbols (8 8 = ∞), so many things
 
On Mac I can make a bunch of random crap by holding Option and pressing everything.
 
Is there any way to simulate one?
 
@ASCIIThenANSI 1. remove inferior operating system 2. install Linux-based OS 3. ??? 4. PROFIT!
:P
 
|:[
 
1:51 AM
@xnor If only \\ didn't need so much escaping, lambda n:"$$\\varphi=1+\\"+"cfrac1{1+\\"*n+"d"[:n]+"dots"+"}"*n+"$$" is another 68
 
Oh. Never mind, it's in my options menu.
 
I have an Apple logo.  Gee, thanks Apple.
 
heh, that shows up as a generic "character not found" on my machine (a box with "F8FF" in it, which is its unicode codepoint I guess)
 
Well clearly yours is the inferior operating system! :P
 
It simply refuses to display symbols of the opposition. :P
 
1:54 AM
Not as inferior as Windows (which I use for sentimental reasons).
 
@TheBestOne: Please tell me you run Windows 95.
 
8.1
 
Heh, Windows 95 is TheBestOne to use for sentimental reasons.
Except you probably weren't alive in 1995.
 
I have an idea on Sandbox, would it be OK if I shared it here?
 
@ASCIIThenANSI: You're welcome to, but if it's already on the sandbox, you could just post a URL to it.
 
2:01 AM
@AlexA. It is on the sandbox already, I was wondering if I could share it here (and it wouldn't be flagged for spam or something.)
 
@Sp3000 Whoa, you cut a char
 
Yeah, the string formatting itself doesn't save chars, but it let me do \%
 
ah, clever
wait, which char does it avoid escaping?
 
The \\ which would otherwise be at the end of a string
 
i see
 
2:06 AM
@ASCIIThenANSI: I don't think you have to worry about it being flagged as spam unless you start telling us about how we could save money with Geico or something.
 
@Sp3000 My ><> answer rather chat-worthy than answer-worthy, right?
 
You can post it for fun if you want :)
 
@AlexA. Haha, thanks.
 
If you link to fishlanguage.com people can see it work and they might be more interested
 
@Sp3000 Why didn't I know about this????
Is it added to golftips? It should.
 
2:10 AM
@randomra Here
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ASCIIThenANSIA New Kind of KOTH - Work with other bots This is just an idea, let me know if it won't pan out well. The year is 2015 (plus or minus a few thousand years). All the PPGC challenges have collapsed, with the wave of code-troll ambushes. All that remains are the bots, executing their small challeng...

What do you think?
 
I'll put it in the OP of the tips page
Oh, right I forgot. p doesn't work on that interpreter yet.
 
so did Fongoid do the site?
@Sp3000 seems to work
 
That was what I was trying to ask, but I can't tell in all honesty based on the response
Oh I see what happened, p only works if the cell already exists in the program
 
@MariaTidalTug: If I recall, you changed your display name for April Fool's Day and are unable to change it back for 30 days. Is that true or did I dream that?
 
2:14 AM
But something like !\";"11p! doesn't work unless you put in an extra newline to start a second row
 
@ASCIIThenANSI: I think it's interesting at first glance. Haven't given it deep consideration yet
 
@AlexA. I'm basically just looking to see if there's anything I left out. It feels ready, but without feedback I can't tell.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ASCIIThenANSIEvery number is interesting - Redux Credit to randomra for original challenge. We know that every number is interesting, and because we are PPCG programmers, we will write a program that tells us what's interesting (because that's our thing!) You should write a program or function which: - t...

 
@ASCIIThenANSI Might be good to link to the original post by randomra so people can see the original too
 
2:39 AM
I want to create an online interpreter for Element. What's the best way to do that?
 
Step 1: make an online interpreter. Step 2: find hosting. Step 3: finished
 
How does Aditsu do it?
 
Ask him!
 
I need to figure out how web development, in general, works.
 
I'd like to know as well. I told my sister's boyfriend I'd make a browser-based application for his business for $10.
 
2:44 AM
heroku.com is free (for very basic apps)
 
I used Heroku after seeing issacg do it with Pyth. Took a day or two of learning things
 
@PhiNotPi Elements looks very nice! Especially for a non-forked own language.
 
Heroku looks cool.
 
Hmm, there is no connect-the-dots ascii-art challenge yet? That should change! :)
 
I've been procrastinating on all sorts of crap so I'll talk to you all later. Have a good evening! (Or day, in the case of @Sp3000)
 
2:49 AM
Heh night - I'm sure there's more people in my timezone though :P
 
@randomra Thanks!
 
3:08 AM
@AlexA. @AlexA. thats right
 
Am I the only one befuddled by how @MariaTidalTug and @NinjaBearMonkey have brand new names?
 
Waitwaitwait, ninja bear monkey? Who's that?
 
Was hsl
 
Who is Maria Tidal Tug?
I saw that name pop up one day out of the blue.
 
Was DigitalTrauma
 
3:17 AM
Okay
 
Its in his(her?) about page
 
@Calvin'sHobbies MariaTidalTug thought he can change it right back after 1st of April :P
 
@MariaTidalTug I could change it back for you, if you really really want. :P
Changing it back on a different site and then copying to all network profiles should also do the trick.
 
I think I heard the trick of creating a new account on a site and then pushing the change
Not sure if it works, though
 
3:41 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies it was supposed to be a 1-day change for april 1 ;-)
@Doorknob No worries - not a big deal
 
4:22 AM
1
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

randomraBrainf*** to tinyBF converter code-golfbrainfuckconversion You don't need to know these languages to participate. Every necessary info is in this question. You should write a program or function which given a brainfuck (BF) code as input outputs its tinyBF equivalent. BF has 8 instructions ch...

Any notes before posting?
 
 
3 hours later…
7:14 AM
I was thinking of a snake KOTH, somewhat like this, but where bots can see each other.
Here is a very rough draft of the rules:
Snake pit


one - to - one battles

start length = 3

end of battle if:

A.length > 7 && A.length >= B.length * 2
OR
You crash into other snake or wall


Everybody starts at left / right wall

Starting player random

Tournament:
every bot vs every other bot
bots take turns

Actions
bot has 30 seconds to decide move
If no action bot loses
bot posts action to controller which makes it public to everyone

items:
Apple - dropped randomly if another apple is eaten. Makes the snake eating it gain one segment
Thoughts?
 
7:26 AM
really weird :
0
A: Generate MathJax for the Golden Ratio Continued Fraction

OptimizerCJam, 51 bytes "$$\varphi=1+\\""cfrac1{1+\\"ri:R*"ddots"R!>'}R*'$_ Code explanation: "$$\varphi=1+\\" "This is a static string"; "cfrac1{1+\\"ri:R* "Repeat this string input number times"; "ddots"R!> "If input is 0, remove 1st characters, else not"; '}R...

edit to see how the explanation code block is marked up.
 
grc
8:15 AM
@Optimizer that is weird
seems to be caused by the dollar signs
also, MathJax has broken the search page
 
Oh god the Perl
@user2428118 Have you looked at this challenge?
 
grc
Perl and PHP are the worst - it must be the dollar signs
 
8:43 AM
Now that it's 2009, let's see how long it takes for Go to show up :D
 
 
2 hours later…
10:30 AM
why is the pyth mathjax answer deleted ?
 
Maybe because it doesn't work for 0?
 
oh
<phew>
 
Having said that, sub-50 should still be pretty doable in Pyth :P ... I think
 
I was trying to use the same approach as mine, I think I have 49 .. Let me see
 
Here's 50: s("$$\\varphi=1+"*Q"\cfrac1{1+"\\>"ddots"!Q*Q\}"$$
 
10:47 AM
49 is possible
no idea if shorter is possible
 
You can't "\v" in Pyth
 
11:03 AM
@Sp3000 ah .. damn
@Sp3000 then I am not sure how sub 50 is possible
 
shrugs
 
 
2 hours later…
12:41 PM
@Optimizer what are those double backslashes doing in the explanation of codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/48605/18144
 
@Runer112 ummm .. . commenting ?
 
12:56 PM
0
Q: General programming questions close message is disingenuous

orlpThere have been multiple times now that I've wanted to close a question as off-topic, but refrained from doing so due to the message associated with it: General programming questions are off-topic here, but can be asked on Stack Overflow. A prime example of this is this recently closed ques...

 
 
3 hours later…
3:44 PM
I know it's Wednesday and all, but this chat room is just sad today :(
 
:(
 
4:02 PM
:) :) :)
Is there a category/name for languages that can solve any problem in the same O() as a decent language? (I assume all decent languages can solve any problem in the same O().)
 
4:49 PM
I believe all languages able to solve the same set of problem-space problems, should be able to do so using the minimum complexity, in some way or another...
At least time-wise
 
@rcrmn What if I define a language just like Python, but where executing the nth command takes an additional n! seconds of idle time?
 
5:03 PM
That's possible. So I guess one candidate term is "sane languages" ;)
 
A lot of algorithms' O() are determined by data structures.
For example, binary search is O(l) on a linked list.
 
Sure, but you don't have to use the language's builtin methods. As long as you have very basic data structures, you can make the others from that.
I mean, if your entire language is based on nothing but linked lists, then you may be on to something. But that comes back to "sane" IMO.
 
A Turing machine doesn't have random access memory.
The whole data structure of a Turing Machine is a "linked list".
 
I never said a bare Turing machine was a sane language ;)
 
You can implement java with a Turing machine :)
 
5:09 PM
Insanity can emulate sanity, just ask half my family :D
 
Should 'sane languages' implement quantum operations? They do provide a speedup.
 
To be honest, I don't know enough about quantum computing to give an informed opinion.
 
I was only half serious too. :P
 
@Geobits there are used languages which can't do random access arrays (I think prolog is almost like that, as there is a very hacky way)
 
I get that there are exceptions. While working without random access long-term would probably drive me crazy, I think you guys are taking my "sane" suggestion a bit too seriously.
I don't think there is a term that means exactly what you want, though (or at least I've never heard of it).
You could use something like "complexity-equivalent", but that's just ugly.
 
5:17 PM
weird, as it seems an important (and clear?) property
we need PeterTaylor :)
 
I think the basic data structures are linked lists and arrays.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:26 PM
asymptotically-optimal?
 
6:57 PM
@Calvin'sHobbies The sandbox controller is stuck on this ^
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

randomraBijective N -> Z x Z function or Generate a pair of integers from a non-negative one code-golf math numbers function? You should write a program or function which takes a non-negative integer N as input and outputs or returns two integers (negative, zero or positive) X and Y. The implemeted ...

 
@Zgarb MathJax has some loading time while the text keep jumping so I plan to use it only if the text greatly benefits from it.
 
Right, that's also annoying if it happens too often.
 
 
1 hour later…
8:12 PM
@TheNumberOne I'm having that problem too. I have to assume it is SE's problem because the sandbox fiddle runs fine and it even works when I edit the question and try running it there. Not sure what's going on.
 
8:35 PM
Hey, I have a question. The user 'Community' (who is a bot) owns the community wiki questions. I know these get up/downvoted, but how come it only has 1 reputation?
Is this just a function of the script that runs it?
 
special case
community is not a bot
 
So it just ignores any reputation changes for Community?
 
yes
 
OK. Thanks.
 
8:41 PM
0
Q: Stack Snippets messing with JS?

Calvin's HobbiesI've noticed that my Red vs. Blue Sandbox controller snippet here has stopped working (at least in Chrome). This is incredibly strange because the JSFiddle that is exactly identical is working fine. More importantly, if you go to the edit mode for the meta question, the snippet works fine when y...

 
 
2 hours later…
10:23 PM
I someone aware of a 2D esolang on a hexgrid? (just asking because I just found a language called Hexagrid, but it's not on a hexgrid :(...)
 
i don't know of one, but one on a Penrose tiling would be a real pain :D
 
that would be beautiful though
 
a periodic (uniform) tiling might be a simpler step first
1D -> 2D -> hexa -> complex periodic -> Penrose
I will definitely think about mechanic which could be interesting
 
I wonder if you can form a Turing complete language in which each program is simply a certain "starting" cell in a Penrose tiling
 
in a brute-force way definitely
although thats almost the same as taking the position of the cell as a problem
disregarding the whole tiling
 
10:35 PM
well yeah I don't mean that you'd be able to find that right cell, but just whether you can encode programs simply in the local adjacency information at any point in the tiling
 
do you happen to know the answer to this:
"Is there a category/name for languages that can solve any problem in the same O() as a decent language? (I assume all decent languages can solve any problem in the same O().)"
 
@MartinBüttner I suppose if the tiles could be numbered (spiraling outwards?) you could associate the tile with the Unary program whose length is its number.
I think that's right at least
You might have to worry about rotational symmetry
 
10:51 PM
@TheNumberOne: You changed your name!
Do you no longer consider yourself the best one? :P
 
Every tile would be capable of 1 (maybe more) instruction based on it's surrounding with common instructions bidden to common properties (like 5 neighbor). The code would be a binary list meaning whether I run the next tile. (Operators could make the IP jump.)
 
Oh. Yeah. Too many sites already have TheBestOne claimed.
 
@TheNumberOne In my zoomed chat you are TheNumb
2
 
Haha
 
:) In mine it's TheNumberOn
 
10:52 PM
In mine you're TheNumberO
So 0, I guess?
 
Nothing wrong with 0. You know Zero the Hero, right?
 
11:09 PM
Nope
 
Hmm, P3 tiling is the well known one but P1 has 5 tiles instead of 2 which could help a lot in defining properties
 
@AlexA. What a horrible story.
 
Hahaha
 
I almost couldn't finish it.
 
11:23 PM
I remember Zero the Hero from elementary school. I haven't really looked at the link I sent.
@TheNumberOne: Have you always been homeschooled?
 
Not for the first 4 grades.
I think I enjoyed watching number videos like that in first grade.
 
What prompted the change, if you don't mind me asking? Did you not like public or private elementary school?
 
They wouldn't let me skip fourth grade in addition to third grade when I was already the youngest in my class.
 
So you skipped third grade?
 
11:37 PM
But you couldn't skip fourth? So you went from second to fourth grade but you had wanted to go from second to fifth?
 
yep
I actually did an online curriculum for a while until they started throttling me too.
 
I couldn't even imagine going from second to fifth grade. That's a lot of material that you would be skipping. Though I suppose if you wanted to skip then that means you already knew it.
What do you mean throttling you?
 
I finished the entire a curriculum for 6th, 7th or 8th (I can't remember which) grade 3 months before the school year was over. They wouldn't give me the next grade's curriculum to work on for the next 3 months.
They did let me skip Pre-Algebra. That was pretty nice.
 
Wow, were you interested in every subject or did you rather take it as an achievement/competition?
 
You finished the entire middle school curriculum during elementary school??
Are you going to MIT next year?
 
11:45 PM
I assume there wasn't much pressure from outside when you were many years ahead.
 
@randomra Mostly math. I'm about average for everything else.
 
Check your profile, damn, you are young. :)
 
@AlexA. No, that's not my college of choice. My college of choice won't allow anyone in under the age of 17.
 
Which college?
 
BYU-I
 
11:48 PM
Oh, Bringham Young in Utah?
Or however you spell it
 
That's BYU
 
Then what's BYU-I?
 
BYU-I is in Idaho
 
Is it another branch of BYU?
 
yes.
 
11:49 PM
What appeals to you about Idaho over Utah?
 
The population, or the lack of it.
 
@MartinBüttner If you want to code in Penrose (Pencode?) you will get dizzy quickly :/
 
@randomra: Are you young and wise beyond your years as well?
 
@AlexA. BYU stands for Brigham Young University ;)
 
@TheNumberOne: Yeah, I had an extraneous "n" in there.
 
11:53 PM
I'm over 20. Beyond my years? (Non-native speaker too.)
 
Mid twenties here. "Wise beyond one's years" is an expression meaning that you're smarter/wiser than the average person of your age.
What's your native language?
@TheNumberOne: What appeals to you about Brigham Young over other universities?
 
I'm LDS
 
What's LDS?
 
sorry, got to go. I'll answer later.
 
Okay. Talk to you later!
 
11:58 PM
Then I understood it just seemed weird. :) I didn't get much smarter since I left high-school IMO but that's just my opinion. I'm Hungarian.
 

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