The Bridge - 2015-02-03 (page 5 of 8)

« first day (1664 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (3377 days later) »

5:00 PM

@fredley Sure, herbal supplements don't work. Still not actually containing what they advertise is a little worrying.

@Yuuki You'd be surprised what contains wheat...

You'd basically be letting a foreign power open up right in the middle of your country.

@Frank Well you may think that but you can't take my corporate dystopia away from me!

Kevin van der Velden

(Yes, the shaking is an actual part of the proposed method of homeopathy, that is how the water is supposedly "activated")

Or gluten related products

5:00 PM

0

Q: Help on making money faster on TERA

I'm having a really hard time to get some money for myself. I've used to do ALL dungeons and I used to get around 2-3k a day. But since the last update, I have focused on getting the latest PVP gear. As you may know, battlegrounds give little money: ~45g per victory + ~40g for the daily quest. ...

@fredley Your way leads to cyberpunk!

Kevin van der Velden

@Yuuki Oh the joys of no regulation

Surprise: unless you're actually celiac, you're probably not actually gluten intolerant

As John Oliver put it: "If 1 out of 3 milk jugs didn't contain milk, you'd be little more suspicious of drinking some of that white mystery liquid."

But in this case, it's more like 4 out 5 milk jugs don't contain milk.

@fredley celiac is pretty fuct though

5:01 PM

I just went to buy Darkest Dungeons on Steam, and something awful called "Quest of Dungeons" popped up

@MattGiltaji Yeah it's not great, I know somebody who is.

That is a pretty bad game name

And 2 out of those 4 milk jugs may contain something that will kill you if you have a certain condition.

@Sterno The more I see the better Darkest Dungeon looks.

@Yuuki malk

5:02 PM

@Sterno Also, I'm surprised this isn't an energy-based Android RPG.

@Yuuki In that quantity, if you are celiac, they might, at worst, cause you diarrhoea.

@StrixVaria Exactly. Maybe work the word "Heroes" in there too somewhere

> Of the four retailers, Wal-Mart was the worst offender: None of its six supplements that were tested was found to contain purely the ingredient advertised.

Can anyone suggest an Android RPG that is neither a gigantic grind-fest nor that rate-limits you with an energy mechanic?

IT IS 3 MINUTES PAST RELEASE. LET ME BUY YOUR GAME SO I CAN NOT-PLAY IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE

5:03 PM

@StrixVaria InflationRPG?

@Sterno no starbait

@fredley I played that for a little while. It was...ok I guess.

@fredley That's the epitome of grinding.

@StrixVaria My thoughts exactly

Adventure Bar Story? Maybe?

5:04 PM

@Frank What's that awesome space one?

Haven't played it a lot, but it's free.

Don't think it's free, I'll look it up

@fredley ...Er? Awesome space one?

@Frank Says it's $1.18.

@Frank Galaxy on Fire 2

5:05 PM

It looks decent, though.

@StrixVaria Bwuh? There was a free one, I thought.

GOF2 was awesome

@Frank Oh there is a free version.

I was wondering

Well I'll try that out. $1.18 isn't much, so if I do like it I can get the full version or something.

I'm very, very, very skeptical of paying any money for an Android app without trying it first.

5:06 PM

Since when is "too broad" the same as "too much effort to come up with an answer"?

@scenia Example?

-2

Q: What is the average stat change after Pokemon Evolution?

There's a pokemon I think should evolve, so I'm making my own fake one, and I'm doing everything about it, like base stats and move pool and all. So what I want to know is how much does each base stat change after a pokemon evolves. For example, Bulbasaur has base stats of 45 49 49 65 65 45. I...

The minimal answer would be so short it wouldn't even reach the character limit...

I agree; I don't see that question as being too broad.

An extensive one elaborating all the possibilities, sorting out odd cases and everything, would end up taking up like 20 lines.

I won't speak for the close-voters, but sometimes people search to find reasons to close questions that seem off topic. This one is asking for information that isn't really terribly useful in any game context, which some people don't like.

5:08 PM

Good point

I think averaging a bunch of numbers isn't too broad, personally.

As a devoted scientist, I like that kind of question, though :P

It probably takes quite some effort since you'd need to calculate all those differences after filtering out the actual evolutions

While just wanting the average stat changes is all well and good, the intent of question (which hasn't been edited out) changes the scope of the question.

How the information is going to be used doesn't make the information off-topic

@Sterno Agreed

5:11 PM

It does if we want to answer the question as asked.

This is what drives me nuts when people complain questions should have more context. Sometimes you add the context and then they're all "Oh, you want it for THAT reason? Well, off-topic then!"

You're off-topic.

True

Accurate

Totally agree, the motivation for the question has nothing to do with its scope

5:12 PM

@StrixVaria Given the large number of pokemon, and how mny are added every few years, I disagree.

And so's urmom.

@Wipqozn the question is about the average though

The answer might be short, but the work required to give an answer is too large, and difficult to maintain.

@scenia Of every single stat.

even when new pokemon are added, their influence is probably negligible and the answer, even if technically outdated, would not lose any value.

Nintendo also changes the base stats of pokemon in some generations as well.

5:15 PM

not only because they usually add around 100 to currently over 700, but also because it's rather safe to assume they have their internal formula themselves

If they change the stats of 5 out of 700 pokemon, the effect on the average is pretty small

@scenia that's a fair point, but tbh the future updates isn't even my main problem.

I think the question requires too much work right now, given the large number of pokemon.

Monty Oum of Rooster Teeth died yesterday.

to be honest, I'd calculate that answer and it would probably take me 10-30 minutes if I had all the base stats in an easy to read format

Too much work is a close reason?

It falls under too broad.

5:17 PM

@JasonBerkan my point exactly, I don't think it should be

Too Broad is a measure of how much work is required.

As I understand it, too broad is a measure of how much text will be below the question

@Wipqozn not really

urmom is way too broad

4

@scenia which is a measure of how much work there is

5:18 PM

An actual answer to that question would be...kinda useless.

if a well-answered question would need someone looking at it to scroll down for 2 minutes to read everything, then it's too broad

Too broad prevents endless answers (where everyone can chime in with their own) or a single answer that would be fifteen pages long.

@Wipqozn It's a measure, but that doesn't mean that "too broad" and "too much work" are equivalent

(because the question isn't specific enough)

That said, though, if he wants to narrow down the stat changes to just a couple specific pokemon, that would be more useful, to me.

5:19 PM

@Wipqozn that's not actually true. While too broad implies too much work, the reverse case is not true

@Frank "Not useful" is what downvotes are for, not close votes

I'm willing to concede I might be wrong about this specific question, but the amount of work required is part of what too broad is about. That's why the length of answer is included. If it's going to take you a few hours to make an answer, it's too broad.

I didn't close under "too broad". If the asker removes the part about creating his own Pokemon evolution, I'd be up for answering it.

The difference radically changes what my answer would be.

I don't think he actually wants one set of values which shows the average stat changes across all evolutions.

Well, you know my stance on this

5:20 PM

I think he wants the stat changes for every single evolution.

he clearly asks for the average

@Frank He does want the average

@Wipqozn Okay, so what counts?

Anyways, I'm not going to balk if the question is reopened.

Every evolution?

5:21 PM

@Frank Yes

I'm always amazed at the different ways things are interpreted.

@JasonBerkan Yes

True

@Wipqozn There are a lot of good answers on this site that are very long

This is from the original reasoning for too broad: "I often feel a question needs to be closed because it's too broad to be answered, and it would need many more details to winnow it down to being possible to answer."

5:21 PM

@murgatroid99 Yes, I've posted many.

My best answers take more than an hour to write.

My highest voted answers take 3 seconds

tbh I actually can't argue about this anymore. I really need to focus more on work.

I can certainly understand the reasonsing for re-opening the question, though.

1

Q: How does Seduction mechanism work in Crusader Kings:2 (Way of Life DLC)? Why nobody seduces me?

Hi so I just downloaded WoL DLC of Crusader Kings 2. I started playing as a female character with attractive trait. Nobody seduced me even though all my neighbours had seduction focus. Then I tried starting again with Ironman mode on and then seduction events started occuring. It has happened eve...

crusader-kings-2

I've written answers that took me hours to complete, yet ended up being 2-liners

as well as your points about the work required, although I think you guys are misunderstanding me some

The more I think about it the more I think my interperation might be a bit off.

since I'm thinking of specific examples which took a lot of work, but I wouldn't classify as too broad

nd by a lot of work, I mean a few hours

5:24 PM

I think it's like apples and fruits. All apples are fruits, but many fruits are not apples. Replace apples with "too broad" and fruits with "loads of work required" and you have what I mean.

"too broad" is for questions that would require a lot of different answers, or a single long answer that combines those different answers

@murgatroid99 Yes, I think you're right.

this one has a very short answer, but requires tons of work to find it.

Like "How do I get all of the achievements in game X?"

@scenia Your analogy is losing a lot of meaning.

That said, I don't care enough if it gets reopened, but I still think it's too broad.

5:25 PM

@Frank do you think so? it actually works pretty well, I just tried replacing the terms.

add a few "questions" and it's totally clear:
All too broad questions are questions with loads of work required, but many questions with loads of work required are not too broad questions.

@scenia Everybody knows that some categories are more specific than others. That doesn't explain why the distinction you're making is valid

@scenia Not necessarily.

Not even that they require a lot of work, necessarily

The analogy wasn't meant to explain why I'm making that distinction, it was meant to clarify the distinction I'mmaking

It's still not a good analogy. I think there's probably quite a few questions where the effort to answer wouldn't be that high, but the question is so vague as to make any answers utterly useless.

5:30 PM

Basically my point is that in my opinion, too broad measures how far down a reader would have to scroll to read all the good answers. If there's just one, but it's insanely long, or there are lots of them, then you have to scroll down a lot. It also requires a great deal of work to make those answers, not necessarily by a single person, but a great deal of total work by the community.

@scenia That's...not how too broad works.

Every answer has to answer the question. Completely, and fully.

Isn't it the idea behind it? To provide concise answers?

It's fine if there are multiple ways to do the same thing, so long as each answer does so, all on its own.

Well, reality shows us that's not always the case

Having a ton of answers isn't at all relevant to a question being too broad or not.

5:32 PM

especially when a question is too broad

@Frank Actually, that's exactly what the "too broad" close reason says

Indeed

> There are either too many possible answers, or good answers would be too long for this format.

@murgatroid99 ...Huh.

My take on it has always been that so long as each answer clearly answers the question.

Which is why strategy questions excel here.

That's not exactly the same as partial answers, but it can mean that there's too much of a variety of possible complete answers

5:34 PM

There are multiple ways to accomplish a goal, and so long as each one does so, those are actually really good questions.

Too broad deals with imprecise questions.

Where an answer has to guess at what is meant, or enumerate all possibilities of what was meant.

@JasonBerkan That's what Unclear is for.

There's some overlap.

I think we have an exception if there are actually many viable strategies

I don't think Too Broad overlaps Unclear in the manner you're using; that means they're both one and the same.

5:36 PM

which is often not the case

It's not really an exception as much as just an understanding that there's some point where your strategy question is not specific enough

a question such as "How do I win in StarCraft", which would indeed have many possible answers as many strategies lead to victory, is clearly too broad.

"How do I complete this game?" is too broad. "What do I do next?" is unclear

0

Q: How much damage can a shield/block that belongs to Ganondorf take?

In all Super Smash Bros Titles, players can block. When they block, the player gets a bubble (shield) around them that absorbs damage and even reflects some attacks. But, if a player holds it for too long, or takes too much damage, the shield will pop and they will be stunned for a considerable a...

super-smash-bros-4

I think you misunderstand me. Too broad is when the question is obvious, but it isn't specific enough to answer in this format.

If it is made more precise, it can be reopened.

user15026

5:37 PM

Woo, still feeling kinda gross and sick but made it to work today.

@JasonBerkan And yet, an argument can still be used for Unclear for that same question.

I've actually seen that used fairly often.

I have a hard time thinking of a question with more than 2 or 3 viable strategies as answers that isn't obviously too broad

@scenia Precisely.

But it is not unclear. We all know how to win at StarCraft.

@scenia Tell that to our numerous Starcraft questions which still get new answers all the time.

@Frank does it really matter if there is overlap between close reasons? As long as questions that should be closed are, and questions that should be open are, it should be fine

5:39 PM

Maybe that's because of the games I'm playing, but even "How do I win as Protoss against Terran?" is probably too broad

@murgatroid99 It does when the overlap is 100%, as the current argument is. Especially when we all play the pedanticist and complain when others use the wrong close reason.

@Frank Nobody except you is saying that the overlap is 100%

@murgatroid99 And yet, no one is clarifying how it's not.

...

@Frank You're the only one arguing that Unclear applies in these cases

5:41 PM

Well, unclear means it's not obvious when an answer is not answering the question

@murgatroid99 And it does.

And I've seen it used for these cases.

@Frank no, it doesn't

If it doesn't, we need to clarify why it doesn't.

Unclear is misused in many cases imo

I have yet to see anything that shows it shouldn't be.

5:42 PM

while too broad means questions that are obviously answering the question are either too long or too numerous

@Unionhawk That could be said of every single close reason.

indeed

@Frank that doesn't make those usages correct

@murgatroid99 And so we should clarify that.

What is correct?

Is closing questions with a crash dump as Unclear correct?

@Frank it's what the close reason says

5:43 PM

How about using it as Too Broad?

but the question we started with was "does 'too broad' include 'too much work to come up with an answer', even if that answer would be quite short and concise?"

@murgatroid99 And I'm saying people can interpret that differently.

Just pointing at words and saying, "That's how to use it" is a bit of a crappy argument.

@Frank Just pointing at people who clearly aren't following that and saying "That's how to actually use it" is worse

There is no clear and defined interpretation.

@murgatroid99 I'm not pointing at something and saying it's correct.

so coming back to that question, does too broad apply to the internal/invisible work behind answers or does it apply to the visible length and number of good answers only?

5:45 PM

I'm pointing at actual use cases of these close votes.

Take the "How do I win Starcraft 2" example. We know what that is asking. It's totally clear what the asker wants. No clarification is needed. However, there are too many strategies, and too many possible answers for this format. The question needs to be more specific to be acceptable.

Too broad should not take into account how much work the answer would require.

But if the answer requires a lot of work, don't be surprised when you don't get one.

@JasonBerkan That's what I think

@Unionhawk this, exactly

@Unionhawk And look at the unclear text: "Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need."

You're going to tell me that doesn't fit?

5:46 PM

@Frank Yes.

Because we could answer that question. It'd be useless, but we could answer it.

@Frank we know exactly what they need. We're just not going to give it to them

"You destroy all the buildings of all your enemies"

A question being difficult to answer is not a reason to close it. Why are we even arguing that it is?

Blame @Wipqozn.

5:47 PM

@Sterno We're not. Keep up, @Sternold!

@JasonBerkan I do too.

however, if I wasn't too busy with work I woudl have stopped by now anyways.

because it has been closed for that reason

IT's too terrible of a question to waste this much time on.

DARKEST DUNGEONS STILL NOT ON SALE

In the end, this is a moot point until someone starts yelling that we're misusing close votes. Which, in my experience, has happened.

5:49 PM

Oh, that question was reopened 15 minutes ago.

@Sterno Its been less than 8 hours since @DwarfSlice was talking about that

user15026

@wipqozn I hear you are getting even more snow on Thursday, my work is trying to get me to work overtime to make up for the Halifax peiplepeople

@Frank Even if it fits, too broad is more appropriate:

"Please add details to narrow the answer set or to isolate an issue that can be answered in a few paragraphs."

@Powerlord I was supposed to release at 9am PST. Apparently they're having some issues with Valve.

steamcommunity.com/app/262060/discussions/0/611696927933728674

@AshleyNunn But netrunner

I blame @AshleyNunn

Also @Frank.

@Frank should be getting all this snow

user15026

5:51 PM

Hey I got 20 cm yesterday I am good for now

9

Good story. Maybe NSFW due to you laughing

Okay, we can all breathe a sigh of relief. I managed to throw my money at them.

user15026

Thanks for the stars guys, I feel loved. That's not going to make me have to explain anything to @worldengineer or anything. ;)

0

Q: What is the lowest precentage KO possible?

What is the lowest precentage knock out possible? I dont mean just removing a stock, but getting the red critical line across the screen and not giving the enemy time to try and recover. Don't include counters becuase they tend to be too situational.

super-smash-bros-4

@murgatroid99 well that kinda makes me look like an idiot :/

thanks for letting us know though^^

5:54 PM

Sneak peak at the Angry Birds movie

@AshleyNunn Well now that you've pinged him...

Let's just pin that for good measure.

@AshleyNunn Yeah, well I got 28 cm.

UGH, PHP I HATE YOU SO MUCH SOMETIMES

php.net/manual/en/function.curl-exec.php

> Returns TRUE on success or FALSE on failure. However, if the CURLOPT_RETURNTRANSFER option is set, it will return the result on success, FALSE on failure.

why isn't that the default?

@Wipqozn its php

5:57 PM

Friends don't let friends PHP.

2

@MattGiltaji I don't hate PHP as much as the rest of the internet, but it does have a lot of stupid desing decisions

you don't even need to return TRUE

@Wipqozn there is a reason the rest of the internet hates php so much

You can just check if you got back FALSE if that's all you want

PHP WHY

@Wipqozn No one cares about your php problems. We just want to know how many cm you got yesterday.

@Wipqozn PHP is the worst programming language ever invented

eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design

5:59 PM

@Wipqozn Because obviously you're more likely to want the result printed out instead of returned in a fashion that you could use it programmatically. No one programs in PHP, they just do terrible things.

@Sterno Not as many as @AshleyNunn.

« first day (1664 days earlier) ← previous day next day → last day (3377 days later) »

Transcript for

Feb '153

The Bridge

General Arqade Chat. We tried to leave once, but the door lock...

--gaming jin-fanclub lazers murder -politics -stars

join this room
about this room

00:00

06:00

12:00

18:00

all times are UTC

site design / logo © 2024 Stack Exchange Inc; legal

mobile