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12:33 AM
@YeZ And again, today =O
 
 
4 hours later…
YeZ
4:24 AM
@IsaacMoses An interesting question - do you have a ko'ach for kelalos on your birthday?
 
@YeZ I sure hope not.
 
4:43 AM
@Scimonster I got a comment from you a half an hour ago. It's early by you, isn't it? Something like 6am, no?
 
YeZ
5:03 AM
@Shokhet It's late by us. TZT
 
@YeZ TZT
 
YeZ
@IsaacMoses Blessings and goodness upon you! G'nite!
2
 
@YeZ Amein! Vechein lemar!
 
5:17 AM
@Shokhet Yeah. I got up for the early minyan. I'm allowed, right? ;)
 
@Scimonster Yes, you are, but that implies that the age you have in your profile is false -- NO teenagers do that :P
 
@Shokhet I actually wasn't the only one. :P
It's my preferred minyan. All the others are Sfardi.
 
@Scimonster I'm impressed. You Israelis are tough stuff.
 
This one at least is "Ashkenaz oriented". (nusach Sfard, which is pretty close to Ashkenaz)
 
There's no nusach Ashkenaz minyan where you live????
 
5:21 AM
@Shokhet On Shabbat, there's sometimes one, depending on who the chazzan is. But that's a very new minyan.
But generally, no.
Not really outside of Anglo-town.
 
Wow.
@Scimonster I guess that means that I know where you don't live :P
(pretending to know where groups of Jews live, in Israel)
 
@Shokhet Yup. :P
@Shokhet There are lots of Anglos in Yerushalayim, the center, and the Gush.
All those big cities i like to avoid. :P
 
@Scimonster And Ramat Beit Shemesh -- I have a bunch of friends who moved there.
 
@Shokhet Right, there too.
 
@Scimonster I don't know all that much about big cities in Israel, but I prefer smaller cities, certainly.
 
5:26 AM
@Shokhet Well, big cities in the States still dwarf Israeli cities.
Can you fit Tel Aviv + suburbs inside New York?
 
@Scimonster Also true.
@Scimonster I don't know. NYC has over 8 million people
Oh.
 
@Shokhet Israel has < 8 mil total.
So, yeah.
 
4 mins ago, by Shokhet
Oh.
 
@Shokhet No i didn't, but tanks for fixing it. ;)
 
@Scimonster np. You saw where the link went?
.....I felt kinda bad doing it; the warning to "avoid trivial, one-letter edits" is still ringing in my mind :P
 
@Shokhet I didn't, but now that i do, it's quite ironic. :P
How did you find that anyways? (the old revision)
 
@Scimonster I was trawling through recent MSE activity. Your answer was the most recent activity on that question, before my edit and answer.
 
@Shokhet I meant the old one that you linked to, here on MY.
 
5:51 AM
@Scimonster I searched "shokhet" by Dan F.
There were only three of those, so it wasn't hard to find....my name, misspelled as it is, hasn't been mentioned so many times on MY
Anyway, it's late -- I have to go to sleep. TZT, @Scimonster! :)
(Enjoy the rest of your day! ;)
 
@Shokhet TZT
 
 
7 hours later…
1:04 PM
 
1:52 PM
@TRiG I think making the emoticon do double-duty as the closing parenthesis works. The emoticon is a sort of three-character punctuation mark, and it tends to be there to seal the parenthetical statement with a bit of mood, so why not treat it as a specialized closing parenthesis?
 
2:10 PM
@IsaacMoses @TRiG Exactly.
@Scimonster I closed the parentheses!! :P
@IsaacMoses @Scimonster @NoachmiFrankfurt I noticed you all reviewed this edit; it was something that I had asked for help with, earlier. I think it looks cool.
 
@Shokhet Nice. Seems like a lot of work.
 
@IsaacMoses If I understand what he's saying to do, it doesn't seem so hard. I just haven't installed Gimp on this computer yet....
 
3:09 PM
@Shokhet Ah, now i see.
 
3:44 PM
> enter image description here
 
4:23 PM
@TRiG Yeah, who bothers with that, anyway?
 
@Shokhet People who want their posts to be friendly to visually impaired readers
 
@IsaacMoses Ah. I didn't (but likely should have) realized that that was a good use case for that space. I was under the impression that most people ignored that spot, from those posts of others that I've edited, but you're likely right. Especially since I know that there are blind Yodeyans.
As usual.
 
4:38 PM
@Shokhet most people still don't know why that matters. But now one more person does, yay.
 
@MonicaCellio Should we make a local copy of
7
Q: What's the point in adding alt-text to an image?

PureferretWhen you add an image to a post via the helper bar, you get this: ![enter image description here][1] [1]: http://i.stack.imgur.com/ve8n0.png What purpose does the enter image description here text serve? I've not noticed anyway of seeing this text, except if I view the page source for the post.

?
 
@IsaacMoses edit approved ;-)
 
@Shokhet Thanks! I'm reading the article I linked to now. It's good stuff.
@Shokhet The vote you just cast was unnecessary on such a frivolous post. 8^P Thanks, though.
 
@IsaacMoses I'm reading it now also. "Describe the information, not the picture" is not what most people think the text should be, but it does make a lot of sense. The purpose of the alt text isn't so that I can figure out which picture is which when looking at code, it's so that people who can't see the picture get the same information; which I just realized (thanks to you and @MonicaCellio) is an issue. This is something I'll need to remember.
@IsaacMoses Good guess :)
 
4:55 PM
@Shokhet Yup. That point was the most valuable one I found in the article, too.
 
@TRiG Thanks for bringing this to my attention, @TRiG. I'll try to be more careful in the future.
 
@Shokhet Are you going to do the honors for your Jastrow excerpt?
 
@IsaacMoses I'm not sure if that picture classes as "decorative" -- all the necessary information is really outside of that box. If you'd like to, you could.
Do you think it's necessary, here?
 
@Shokhet I was thinking about the "decorative" case in the SE context, and it seemed to me that almost always, SE posts should not contain decorative images. If there's nothing useful in the image, why is it there?
 
@IsaacMoses To show that Jastrow says what I claimed he did, I guess. But if you can't see the image, describing the information content doesn't do much more than repeat my first sentence, doesn't it?
My answer would then say
> Jastrow supports Yishai's answer, that "סנהדרין" derives from the Greek συνέδριον:
twice, no?
 
5:02 PM
@IsaacMoses I don't think we need to duplicate it, but I wonder if there's someplace where we should be linking it. (The markdown help isn't mod-edible, so not there.)
 
@MonicaCellio Ideally, in the image-upload box
 
@MonicaCellio Should there be an MSE to put that link into the mardown help? .....this is really important information, that no one knows about.
 
@Shokhet @MonicaCellio The current markdown help says "The word in square brackets is the alt text, which gets displayed if the browser can't show the image. Be sure to include meaningful alt text for screen-reading software." which isn't bad.
 
@IsaacMoses Ah. I didn't recall seeing that, which may be because I didn't read that help page :]
 
... the fact that the easiest (and probably most oft-used) way to add an image doesn't request alt-text until the image-adding mission is accomplished (so "why bother") is probably a bigger deal.
 
5:06 PM
@Shokhet maybe, though now that I've taken a look I don't know how visible it would be. People have to click "?", then "advanced help", then find "images", then click "show more", then notice the link in the text there (if we put it there). How do we make it more prominent than that?
@IsaacMoses oh. Yes, that's pretty reasonable.
@IsaacMoses yeah. Thanks for linking to that MSE post.
 
@MonicaCellio Now bountied.
 
@MonicaCellio Perhaps a MSE post that says "POST ALT-TEXT TO IMAGES OR ELSE!!!" :)
I dunno.
 
@MonicaCellio I suspect (but have no evidence) that most images get added via GUI, not via raw entry of markdown text. If I had to do it raw, I'd be looking at the help.
@Shokhet It's a shame that that online Jastrow doesn't support deep-linking.
 
@IsaacMoses You mean, linking directly to a page? ....yeah, I know.
(remember, I don't know code!! :P)
 
@Shokhet I added "Screen capture of the relevant entry in the Jastrow dictionary." Your goal in adding the image is to provide ready evidence for your citation. Saying that it's there provides some of that evidence.
 
5:16 PM
@IsaacMoses Okay, fair enough.
 
@IsaacMoses probably true. I enter them via the GUI (and I'm a "type the XML/HTML/markdown directly" person!) and the first thing I do after is replace that text. It does come in already selected, IIRC, but apparently that's not enough of a prod for some.
 
@MonicaCellio Whatever is easiest, right? ....I also type most of my markdown directly, but enter images through GUI, 'cuz that's much easier.
 
Equivalent stats for MY to those in this post , which said in April '11 that 29% of SO posts with images had user-entered alt text: 127 with "enter ...", 5 with "alt text", 7 with no alt text, out of 297 posts with images. So, 53% of MY posts with images have user-entered alt text.
Running the queries against SO takes too long now. For User Experience, who oughta know better: 6356, 189, 116, 12271 -> 46%
 
@IsaacMoses 53% is a lot better than 29%, though it could still be better.
 
6:19 PM
I'm thinking of doing up a request for community help on Meta to replace every instance of default alt-texts on MY. It's tractable, since we're relatively small and, I think, relatively image-free. Any objections?
@Shokhet @MonicaCellio ^^
 
6:31 PM
@IsaacMoses sounds good to me. Thanks.
@Shokhet I use the GUI because it handles the upload for me (and gets the URL). :-)
 
@MonicaCellio It's a handy GUI, alright.
 
6:43 PM
@DoubleAA, pace as in with all due respect to. — Yishai 2 mins ago
@Yishai Learn something new every day.
 
 
2 hours later…
8:15 PM
@IsaacMoses Sounds like a good idea; do you have a query for posts with images that don't have an alt text? ....also, I suggest that part of the Meta plan include doing this slowly, and not all at once, for the purpose of the front page
 
@Shokhet Forthcoming; yes; Is that a huge problem?
 
15
Q: Call to action: fill in image descriptions

Matt E. ЭлленWe had a request a couple of years ago to replace "enter image decription here" with some sort of generic text. I think this is a bad idea, as it doesn't add anything. Shog's comment on the proposal essentially articulates how I feel: I would rather it changed to something like, "Author hates...

 
@Scimonster Nice. Thanks.
 
YeZ
9:01 PM
Is this on topic? — YeZ 3 mins ago
 
1
Q: Let's make Mi Yodeya more friendly to people and machines that can't see images: alt text fix

Isaac MosesBackground Today in the chatroom, we were discussing the practice of adding meaningful alt text to images on the web. Alt text is displayed when the image cannot be displayed and is therefore especially important for visually impaired readers who use a screen-reading device to tell them what's o...

 
@IsaacMoses I don't understand what the problem would be.... is confused
 
@Shokhet Is the front page effect a huge problem?
 
Nov 17 '14 at 20:37, by Monica Cellio
@YeZ I was initially doing them a few at a time to reduce the effect of bumps, but then a mod told me to just do the rest in one batch.
 
9:13 PM
@IsaacMoses I don't know. I seem to recall discussions in chat about retagging efforts, that urged users to not edit so many at the same time. I don't actually know if it's really a problem.
@Scimonster But that wasn't an MY mod, was it?
 
@Shokhet No. Just mentioning.
 
@Scimonster Okay.
@IsaacMoses If you don't think it's a problem, then fine. Whoever's active in chat that doesn't yet have the Copy Editor badge; go for it! ;--)
 
@Shokhet I would, but i happen to be tired.
Maybe tomorrow, if there's any time.
Probably not; the house is a mess. :(
 
@Scimonster Erev Shabbat Shalom!
 
@Scimonster We have plenty of posts; there surely will be many left over for you :)
I gotta go. TZT, all!
 
9:17 PM
TZT.
Wow, when @Shokhet says he has to go, he means it. :P When i say it, it means at some point in the next x amount of time i should probably get off.
 
YeZ
@Shokhet If I understood what that really meant, I'd consider doing a couple.
 
@Mods, given the underwhelming participation in the Weekly Tanach challenge and the greater likelihood of this new project actually going somewhere, I request removing from the former and putting it on the latter.
 
YeZ
9:43 PM
I am me'od confused. I just edited a post that I was linked to from the list, and now I can't find that post on the list.
 
@YeZ which one?
 
YeZ
never mind I was being silly.
@IsaacMoses I edited an answer, then tried to find it on the list from the question ID.
 
@YeZ Y"K. Thanks for pitching in!
 
@Shokhet that was from a different site. I've sometimes given the advice in here to try to limit bulk edits to 5-10 at a time. My main concern is that newly-asked questions should get a chance to be seen before being pushed off the front page by an unfortunately-timed update to 50 questions.
That's more likely to happen with retaggings than with edits that require more thought, so I'd say don't worry about specific numbers and just keep an eye on the front page. If you see the churn pushing a lot of new stuff off, hold off for a little longer. Does that work?
@YeZ thanks for helping, and @IsaacMoses thanks for compiling the lists and writing it up for meta!
 
@MonicaCellio Feel free to edit guidance along these lines into the call to action
 
YeZ
9:50 PM
@MonicaCellio I don't have the patience to do more than 2 or 3 at a time. But I supposed if 10 people did 2 or 3 at a time would still be a bit of a flood.
 
@YeZ Halevai :)
 
YeZ
peace out y'all
 
@YeZ to you, out, peace
Mermaids - Mi Yodeya? is about to go Notable, and it's not yet 24 hours old.
 
10:09 PM
Achieved. ^^^
Every once in a while, we should post another "Judaism + crazy creatures" question.
3
"Would tribbles be kosher?"
"Could we make kosher gelatin from Plesiosaur bones?"
"If we find life on Mars, will it be kosher to eat?"
Now I'm picturing a cartoon of a guy in stereotypical cartoon-Hasidic garb in a fantasy world chasing a pack of monsters, faeries, etc., with a fork and knife.
3
 
@YeZ yeah I think we'll be fine. I don't see a need to edit guidance into the meta post.
@IsaacMoses :-)
 
@IsaacMoses on a different subject entirely, you might be interested in this question on Community Building about transferring ownership/control of communities (and any pitfalls therein): communitybuilding.stackexchange.com/q/1009/83
@IsaacMoses done.
 
10:50 PM
@MonicaCellio Thanks!
@MonicaCellio Yup; relevant to our migration to SE 2.0. I think we covered (eventually) most of the relevant steps there
 
@IsaacMoses I figured I'd point it out in case you have anything to add.
 
11:35 PM
@Shokhet @IsaacMoses Do we know who has been filling them in?
 
11:58 PM
@MonicaCellio thanks. I'll think about it. Way to recruit across the SE network :)
@DoubleAA you mean until today or today?
 

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