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1:26 PM
yeah I wish it had launche dat or after gencon
that was my expectation as well
Hello people
I'm curious, somebody just told me bounded accuracy is PC only and this makes for monsters with high To Hit and AC that are almost impossible to win against, unless you mindslave some other monsters to fight pokémon battles. Is this false?
@Zachiel yes.
sort of
yes you are in the right chat
so one of the mosnters we just looke dat, the old red dragon
1:29 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith XD
ac is 22
so no magic weapons means that everyone but a ranged fighter is missing50 %
even with a +2 magic weapon the to-hit is still only like 60% accurate
On the reach issue, I don't see what the hairsplitting is about. Reach is an attribute. Nominally it based on size but can something different like wielding a weapon with reach.
@RSconley its the wording on the reach property vs. reach as described for creatures
reach property says your reach increases by 5 WHEN you make an attack
creature wording says its default 5
so if you arent actively attacking
your reach is the default
reach could have said, "Your reach is now 5ft further/10feet" and this issue wouldnt exist, its how they chose to word it that leads me to argue that threatening reach is only 5ft unless you are a monster with a 10 foot reach
@Zachiel taking the Ancient Red Dragon, we have a monster with a str stat of +10 and a to-hit of +17..that seems to indicate a proficiency of +7 instead of the normal +6...but it has 28 HD so it's reasonable to assume thats it's equivalent PC level
(the tarrasque's to-hit is 19, with a +10 str, again, looking at a +9 prof bonus, it's CR 30, and has 33 HD)
The rules also say the dungeon master to use his common sense. If D&D was a software program then yes the wording is poor. But since there are human beings running the game it obvious that you are wielding a knife black on a long pole that you can react, attack or touch anybody within its reach
1:35 PM
@rsconley undefined
I disagree
attacking is likewise "undefined"
@RSConley how so?
its actually defined as an on your turn action
there is no section that specifics a term attacking
no that is an Attack ACTION not attacking
that is defined
attacking != Attack
you can disagree with me about how this is parsed in the future submit your own answer or just let it go if its clear Im not going to edit my answer to your liking
1:38 PM
@RSConley making an attack pg 73 of basic
@RSConley Im tired of hearing this argument, your playstyle does not dictate how my playstyle should go forward, If I want to parse the rules for the most defensible interpretation that is my choice
especially since I will be a GM for my local game shop for organized play events
It matters
historically threatening reach has been a feat buy in previous D&D editions, as much as 5e is supposed to be new and easy there are many situations where understanding previous D&D conventions and design intent has helped me figure out what they were trying to say in the rules
Yeah but you missing the point that the ultimate back that the D&D is about playing characters in a pretend world. So unless it stated that the laws of reality are changed, like for magic, reality is the ultimate criteria. It not a eurogame where the heart of the game is a nifty set of mechanics. The mechanics are a tool to judge the effects of what the players want to do.
err ultimate fallback
You have a weapon in hand that can reach out and touch anywhere in a 10 ft radius
@RSconley except D&D is not pure simulation
Ive tweeted Mike Mearls
Given the pattern of his ruling I say he will more like give a similar ruling to what I said
we'll see, we'll also see if eratta comes out
1:45 PM
Well my advice is to start using common sense in the case of ambiguous ruling. 5e is not being designed like 4e where the heart of the system is the game mechanics.
rolls eyes
Q: Are balanced groups important in D&D 5e?

FridayIn my 4e campaign the group (4 players) often ran into trouble in combat if they didn't have one person was in each role of Striker, Defender, Controller & Leader (especially for published adventures). I don't see those roles anywhere mentioned in the new 5e PHB. How important is group diversity...

@RSConley common sense is not a good standard...it's too finicky to be of use
OK tell me what is actually happening if I was actually there looking at combat when a goblins that within 10 ft of a guy with polearm?
@RSConley why is that important?
what do the mechanics say should happen? it's a game not a simulation
1:47 PM
Because that the point of D&D and all of tabletop roleplaying
It tabletop roleplaying not a wargame
(why should there be an expectation that I know what would happen in the situation you describe?)
Otherwise we might as well break out Metagaming Melee and Wizard and have at it
Because that the point, you are playing a character in an imagined setting.
> Buddy, you're dealing with a swarm of giant enemy crabs that will choke slam your ass into the pavement
> Who are individually CR 1/8th
> And who each have more HP than the party combined
> Each one deals as much damage as a PC, plus a condition on hit
> They also have pretty great AC, and are sneaky
> This is one of the weakest enemies in the book
Again, true?
right, but with a game as codified as D&D already is. Why should there be an expectation that players understand combat mechanics beyond what's codified?
thank you Zachiel
1:51 PM
Well granted if you want a super detailed simulation of say hand to hand martial arts then yeah it helps to have real world knowledge. But that not what we are talking about here. We talking about standing with a long pole in our hands a situation that 90% of human beings on the planet can comprehend
@JoshuaAslanSmith ?
your quote
was beneficial from my point of view
Which is, if I'm not too curious?
@Zachiel lol... to evaluate the statements individually there:
that were talking about a game/setting where people rain down meteors, bring people back from the dead with magic, and do battle with fantastical creatures and that looking for verisimilitude is a pointless endeavor. that we should read the rules and use them at their most distillate form apart from GM rulings/rule zero to make sure expectations are leveled.
1:54 PM
1. sure, great.
2. not really, L1 fighter has 12, they have 13
3. No. just no. 1d6+1 isn't comparable to PC damage, also their to-hit is +3, PCs usually start at +5
4. yeah, that's pretty great AC, AC is independent of level and dependent on stats and armor only.
5. no. there are CR 0 enemies.
@waxeagle I asked him about low level monsters, since we were talking about old dragons and tarrasque
@Zachiel yeah, you've got to take the whole monster into account. That thing is a bit stronger than a goblin (hp wise), but doesn't attack as well, and it's racial powers are weaker (which is why goblins are CR.25 vs CR.125)
half a dozen goblins are a pretty serious threat to L1 PCs.
half a dozen of these crabs (if they get a surprise round), would be pretty threatening
(to L1s)
they wouldn't hit enough to be a real threat though.
L1s are beautiful fragile snowflakes
cragmaw cave, is like, oh you had expectations of PC competency?
if the Goblins surprise in the ambush, there is a possible TPK (provided you have <5 PCs)
im almost certain had I not fudged the number of goblins down (I basically used the numbers you used and then looked back and saw that there shouldve been at least 2 more goblins in that cave) that the Party wouldve been wiped
wizard was stupidly hanging onto spells
for what?
you have cantrips
1:58 PM
Even with the fantastical elements you have to use verisimilitude or reality at some point because you can never write a set of rules that can cover all the possibilities of playing characters in a imagined setting. At some point you will need to make a ruling not covered by the rules. And unless you other specified it, to be fair that ruling has to be based on reality.
dude also took a goblin shortbow
@RSconely or rather I could rule based on the rules....
look this obvious something were our logic loops will never meet
agree to disagree?
Did not just say that you WILL run into things not covered by the rules.
in the future just write an answer that puts your point of view forward, upvotes will decide
Well for that question somebody already had the answer I would have put up.
2:00 PM
Id rather make a ruling applied toward holistic interaction with existing rules than "what makes sense" as you would put it
then just upvote that answer and move on
on the tin 5e said it would support all players and playstyles so you do your thing and Ill do mine
I never disagreed with that but doesn't mean I don't have an opinion.
2:26 PM
bone Devil added to monster damage doc
I wonder way you and gmnoob has issues editing the doc
my doc I should say
mayeb I shoulve given share and edit rights to the folder not the excel sheet
@JoshuaAslanSmith mostly my issue was I couldn't copy/paste back to it. from gdocs
I could edit web, but I had to click a button to do so
were you editing in the broswer or in office?
ah yeah enable editing
@JoshuaAslanSmith browser, I don't have excel on my box at home
3:00 PM
@RSConley I'm not sure I buy that 8 fighters can take 4 wizards
Dice does actually work in here, yes?
@GraceNote yeah, all rooms associated with rpg.se
Okay. Good.
I'll cite how the drawing will go once we hit the allotted time, which is in two hours.
3:03 PM
dice dice baby...
3:59 PM
@waxeagle nope they won't survive an open field charge against evocation mages. With the fighters coming in from all directions maybe. But combat in tabletop campaigns are more varied than just stand up fights.
@RSConley certainly. And I'd argue the party of wizards is better prepared for that than 8 fighters
@waxeagle my experience is that it winds up to be highly situational. Are we talking about in the middle of a grassy plain, stone room. Or in a tumbled down quarry, or in the alleys of a city state. Wizards are amazing with magic but it is limited in quantity. Rogue types and fighter types can keep going all day doing what they do.
If campaigns is in essence is a series of room fights with an assortment of creatures built with balanced encounter rules it going to influence the party's make up.
The players will optimize for that situation. If the campaign is more of exploring, living, and setting different things will come into play.
4:26 PM
wizards have way more utility in addition to damage, if spells per day is the defining resource for a wizard than hit die is it for martial characters and they seem to run out about the same time
Regarding reach and attacks of opportunity...in the 5e D&D Basic Rules (not the 5e PHB), a PC wielding a 10 ft spear gets an immediate AoO if an opponent who is 10' away moves out of reach: either moving farther away to 15' or closer to 5', where a lateral move on a grid counts as "farther away". However, an opponent who moves from 15' to 10' away from said PC does not provoke an AoO since the opponent is not moving out of reach but moving into reach. Is my interpretation correct?
@RobertF no
AoO only trigger on leaving reach
the two possible interpretations we've seen are that you get it from moving 5' to 10' or 10' to 15'
for what its worth mearls responded to my tweet saying yes that reach weapons threaten up to 10 feet
4:36 PM
and I'm honestly not sure which I buy
@JoshuaAslanSmith good to know
that should probably be attached to the top answer
i need to edit my answer
Reach weapons threaten both in squares 5' and 10' away from the wielder, or just at 10'?
@RobertF both
if you played 4e think of it as a 2 square deep aura
btw, you two up for tomorrow night?
4:38 PM
k, I need to see if I can get ahold of gruber
Ok got it - so moving from 10' to 5' is not leaving reach according to RAW, so doesn't provoke AoO.
@RobertF exactly
@JoshuaAslanSmith can you get in touch with Ken?
Let me see about tomorrow night - will get back with you
@RobertF kk
4:42 PM
Does the polearm feat in the PHB allow an AoO when moving from 10' to 5', or does it only work for moving from 15' to 10'?
only 15->10
its really of dubious value though
since moves can be broken up, interrupting/stopping a move (its described as interrupting a move) is not super helpful unless you have some kind of feat or magic item that would let you prone (still not as usefull since only 10 feet reduction)
@JoshuaAslanSmith it doesn't actually stop it, just happens before the move continues
Ah, so if a unit of soldiers armed with long spears, all possessing the polearm feat, assumed a two-ranked phalanx formation with the rear rank's spear extending past the front rank, attackers could be twice skewered by AoOs when moving 15' to 10' away from the front rank, and again moving 10' to 5' from the front rank (where they run into the rear rank's spear).
@RobertF yes
4:47 PM
right thats what im saying
which is cool in your head
but how many reach weapon fighters are you gonna have in a party?
I think there's a feat or manuever that stops on an AoO
@JoshuaAslanSmith probably 0
@JoshuaAslanSmith - That depends - I suppose in a campaign involving a field battle with massed formations, players or their enemies could adopt phalanx formations. So I wonder if characters can squish together even closer than 5' into a close formation to permit even more long spear AoOs?
so restrictions against magic users is what you are saying
Alright, the heroes are in tight formation.. Bring forth that dark mage we got whose fulla nothing but AOEs...
@MadMAxJr yep
4:55 PM
The dark mage has one chance to hit us...then he's shish-kebobbed
@RobertF he's a mile away
A mile away, what's he throwing at us?
@RobertF meteor swarm
take 40d6 damage, save for half
(y'alland your buddies over there, and over there, and over there)
Ok, my fighter skillfully parries the meteor with the tip of his spear.
angry forum post to nerf magic
4:58 PM
Wait are we talking a big meteor, or little rocks and pebbles from space?
@RobertF numerous blazing pebbles it looks like
4 instances of 40' radii
it's the multi-fire tactical nuke of 5e
it is a 1/day thing...but...
... but if you know the time traveling sphinx the mage can keep going forward in time for a nap & then return to the battle a minute later to cast another meteor storm.
well yeah...as @magician noted, at will reliable time travel breaks everything
Actually, don't know if the sphinx's time travel powers can operate with pinpoint accuracy down to the minute.
@RobertF that's certainly left to the DM's discretion
I would not allow it to be reliable in some way...probably on the part of the sphinx who would know full and well how dangerous a power it could be
5:05 PM
Roger - potentially could break the game if we get all Dr. Who on monsters.
"I alter the course of history so this monster was never born.... as a free action."
@RobertF actually, Doctor Who is a great example of how unreliable time travel should be
@GraceNote showtime?
Yes, lol
Welcome, all who've come, to the Roleplaying Games Stack Exchange Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition Player's Handbook Contest Raffle Drawing Scheduled Chat Event!
@JoshuaAslanSmith - Is that alive feed for the raffle drawing?
@RobertF nah, the drawing will be done right here with dice!
Oh, got it - was wondering why everyone's wearing hats. :)
I'll be making two drawings today, using the chat's dice feature. From July 15th until the end of August 18th, all questions asked were tallied up by those that were upvoted, and each question asked has produced one ticket for that individual. In total, 98 tickets were earned.
This is the drawing table I'll be using - I'll be rolling 2d10 to represent a 1d100, read from left to right as a full number. 100 is both being 10, 1-9 are the first roll being 10 but the second roll not being 10.
Since there are precisely 98 tickets, if I roll a 99 or a 100, I'll just reroll.
So, we all ready for this?
A roll table. How very appropriate.
5:12 PM
Let's rock and roll!
Alright, let us delay no longer!
That's a 5, so that's rampion.
lol nice
And now the roll for who will be destroyed in order to maintain balance...
5:13 PM
Congratulations to rampion for winning a copy of the Player's Handbook! An email will shortly follow to retrieve details.
Thanks for the community contest. Good to see stuff like this happening.
The next up is the Bonus Raffle! Prior to the July 15th release date, we gave three of our users here an advance copy of the Starter Kit. They received tickets for posting upvoted questions between their receiving the box, to the July 15th release date.
@RobertF with mearls tweet the remaining clarification is what happens when the target moves within the threatened area. I been playing it as anything beyond a one step move draws opportunity attacks. Even I consider a house rule on my part not RAW. Right now it reads per the PHB and Basic Rules (page 71) that you are free to move WITHIN the threatened area. Although when you will need to be careful when moving around threatened area.
In total, Joshua Aslan Smith earned 3 tickets while Oblivious Sage earned 2 tickets. For this roll, I'll be using 1d10. From 1-6, it's Joshua. From 7-10, it's Oblivious Sage.
Drum roll...
5:15 PM
That's a 1, so congratulations to Joshua Aslan Smith for also winning a copy of the PHB!
@GraceNote Thanks for all your help on meta with all of this
@JoshuaAslanSmith congrats!
5:16 PM
minimum damage ftw
Yay congratulations
So PHB is the loot drop, but how much XP do you gain out of this?
@RSConley yeah, per RAW moving w/in reach no matter how much does not provoke (and that makes sense, since as of right now relative position does not matter).
@MadMAxJr n
yep what wax said
The next raffle will be drawn on September 30th. This time I'll be making the drop table in advance so that I can draw on release date.
5:17 PM
makes sense since flaking doesnt matter
@GraceNote Thanks for your help!
@RSConley - roger, thanks
I haven't yet figured whether or not we'll include the tickets from the first round into the second round, as was asked in the meta question - I'll make a call on that sometime early September based on how the question buildup is looking by that point.
Now that there's product out there, should see more questions.
And wonder if the Monster Manual will include the dreaded Tarrasqueicorn, now with singing and dancing.
Q: What guidelines exist for players creating characters for organized play?

Joshua Aslan SmithWith Hoard of the Dragon Queen releasing as the first part of the Tyranny of the Dragons storyline I was wondering what guidelines and rules exist for players looking to create and run characters for organized play.

5:23 PM
@waxeagle thats a softball for you or anyone else to answer
I'll be vanishing for now and prepping some forms and such to get prizes to our winners.
@GraceNote Have a good day.
@GraceNote thanks again.
@waxeagle did you order of hoard of the dragon queen come with any faction related stuff?
@JoshuaAslanSmith not that I saw on a quick flip through (nothing of the nature of the store GM stuff)
yeah thats what I thought
gonna have to get invovled
5:31 PM
I kind of hope they make a...factions pack or something available
Bummer :( 11 tickets wasn't enough. Oh well. I had a good shot :)
so many users with single questions
@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah, solid numbers overall. 98 questions in one tag in about a month
(hitting up gf9 to see if they have any factions stuff)
oooh good idea
nope, only game aid they have is a preview of the spell cards
5:47 PM
Hoard of the Dragon Queen is basic 5e or advanced 5e rules?
@RobertF yes
(there aren't any actual rule differences at this point)
it's all content difs
you can play Hoard with Basic + the online supplement
(or at least you're supposed to be able to. I haven't scoured it yet)
Great - so basic characters can seamlessly transition into the expanded rules
or we'll find out!
they can
all of the basic characters are options in advanced
Im fairly certain basic options are the least powerful options for each calss
cleric is iffy
5:50 PM
the only thing advanced offers the basic characters that they don't have in basic is more spells and feats
(and races)
Half elf Rogue is going to be crazy good at skill stuff
Im looking forward to tieflings and dragonborn
but also alt-human rules
a feat at L1 is going to be super valuable
SOOOOO valuable
can we say human fighter
Human GWF
expanded crit is not enough to make champion worth it
the other path features are so meh
5:54 PM
does GWM give an extra attack on a crit tho?
you talking about the feat?
@wax on a crit or a kill you get a bonus action attack
but you only ever get one bonus action a round right?
its like a free action attack in 4e
1 extra attack vs all of the options for bonus action that battle master gets
5:57 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith yep
because the other half of the feat is a throw away -5 for +10 damage
especially because maneuvers are the fighter's version of spells (SAVE DCs)
giving you the option outside direct AC damage
and out of combat getting that tool proficency and the watching your mark thing, so much more utility
@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm tempted to run the numbers on this actually
also relentless > the wizard spell replenish feature
6:00 PM
+10 is enough that it might cancel -5
anydice is always there
@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah. starting script
hmmm ocmmanders strike is pretty laughable though I guess if you have a barb in the party thats raging
or someone else has some special thing going on with their weapon attacks right at the moment
if you don't mind I'm going to use 2d7 as the damage die, it's representative of the average being 4.1111, I don't want to have to have to write a die for this
yeah thats fine
disarming strike looks like its only good for knocking shields out of peoples hands, since picking up an item as part of a move or action is totally doable
6:03 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith rogue
Is there a combat feat that allows a two-handed weapon to be wielded single-handed in the 5e PHB (if anyone has a PHB handy)?
@RobertF let me check
also I only just discovered yesterday that tab auto finishes the username
@waxeagle the mage slayer feat looks like what I wa talking about for making a mage killer subclass
@JoshuaAslanSmith it looks really solid.
when you hit a creature with an OppAtt their speed becomes 0 for the rest of turn
Creatures within 5ft provoke even fi they disengage
@JoshuaAslanSmith - Cool thanks. Think Pathfinder has a Monkeygrip feat that allows two-handed -> one-handed
6:06 PM
you can target creatures next to you with an OppAtt if they make an attack that doesnt target you
4e style AURA
@RobertF no so far no luck
yep nothing like that in 5e
@JoshuaAslanSmith - ok thanks
@waxeagle let me know how the dice works out sharpshooter has the same option for ranged characters
but a much much better feat overall in my opinion (long range doesn't impose disadvantage, ignore half and 3 quarters cover and the same -5 for +10)
L1 GWF taking -5/+10, vs straight. AC 15
-5/+10: .05 * 23 + .05*8 = 1.55
straight: .55*13 + .05*8 = 7.55
sucks at L1
Let's look at L5
AC of 18 this time
well actually...18 isn't fair, only hits on a crit...
(as does the 15)
I'm going to recalc at 12, and 15. because you're not going to use that feature on someone with an AC of 15 at L1
6:11 PM
hmm heavy armor master is worth it I think
resist 3 for non magical attacks
and strength gets a bump
L1 GWF taking -5/+10, vs straight. AC 12
-5/+10: .20 * 23 + .05*8 = 5
straight: .70*13 + .05*8 = 9.5
thinking about this, those numbers aren't going to start scaling any better as we go up in levels...
im laughing at how bad the grappling feat is
the +10 is going to have less impact and the -5 is going to have more.
Hmm, nothing in the Basic 5e rules about large creatures wielding a two-handed weapon single-handed - might be a DM's ruling.
hmm what's this do with advantage
@RobertF yeah, that's DMG material,
L1 GWF taking -5/+10, vs straight. AC 12 with adv
-5/+10: .36 * 23 + .0975*8 = 9.06
straight: .91*13 + .0975*8 = 12.61
6:17 PM
this concurs with my gut feeling
that's a feat you take for the extra attacks, and that feature only gets used if you happen to know you can already easily hit the monster in question...
Would need to be at least +15 damage to be worth it I think, or +20
because breaking even is not worth it for the cost of the feat
for the advantage, WA says that the bonus has to be....18.18
hang on, that's not right
with adv the bonus needs to be 12
so meh
So I think sentinel and mage slayer are must haves for fighters
my math is flawed here, and I'm trying to figure out why
ok, to-hit is fine. So teh equation we want to solve is:
.2 * (x + 11) +.05*8 = .7 * 11 + .05 * 8
WA says that the required bonus should only be 8
so this should actaully be a good deal. Let me run the numbers again
a had an extra x, darned WA syntax
w/o adv
literally, it doesn't start to become a good deal until you're hitting at 95% under normal circumstances (and it still has to be 12)
with adv, against an AC of 12, you get to only needing 16.75
AC of 9 with adv
and it's finally a good deal
(good news! there's half a dozen monsters with an AC <10)
6:38 PM
(that threshold will go up as your to-hit goes up, but since everything moves in sequence, the reletive difference between the damage will get smaller, and the to-hit impact will remain unchanged. thus the gap will actually grow)
Did WotC release stats for the 5e monsters yet?
@RobertF yes
(the v.1 ones)
great thanks
ack access denied at work
there are also some more monsters in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen supplement
@RobertF can you get to google docs?
6:48 PM
yes - can I open in google docs?
I've got a copy on my drive, I'll share it to you
nice, thanks!
do you need my gmail address?
@RobertF already have it
Got it
@waxeagle glass staff looks like he'll be nasty
6:58 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith aye, he may be

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