The Bridge

badp

09:00

I'm not sure what people's infatuation with Visual Studio (and its pricetag) is, but this seems to be a thing that's happening

I made a very small project in C# for university with it and it didn't leave me breathless

Matt Эллен

ooo. interesting

I write c# every day

It's fine. not mind blowing.

badp

Yes, but why Visual Studio all the things?

fredley

@badp Death to IDEs, power to text editors

badp

I'm not saying Visual Studio sucks or death to Visual Studio

I'm just neutrally asking why

Kevin van der Velden

@fredley go vim!

Matt Эллен

09:06

@KevinvanderVelden no! go emacs!

Martin Sojka

MonoDevelop (the one bundles with Unity anyway) seems way more clunky. Never tried anything else related to C#.

Kevin van der Velden

@badp I have no idea, I mostly just use it for debugging and some refactoring

@MattЭллен viiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiim

Martin Sojka

Most of the time I just use Eclipse though. At least I know the more important keybindings and I CBA to set up other IDEs to use the same.

fredley

Vim > Emacs

Matt Эллен

@fredley I'd edit your message but I couldn't find the right buttons to do it.

fredley

09:08

Vim runs everywhere, and every other text editor worth its salt has vim-mode (see: Emacs)

@MattЭллен It needs no editing

Matt Эллен

:D

Kevin van der Velden

@MattЭллен did you try C-X M-c M-butterfly?

Matt Эллен

@KevinvanderVelden let me get out the foot pedals...

badp

I wish I'd written this

3

Q: Vim plugin that explains commands as you type them

If you're running Linux, please go ahead and install atc because it explains perfectly what I would love Vim to do. As you can see from [the manpage][2] atc has a relatively simple command system, where you first name a plane, then a command for that plane, and that arguments. As such you tell p...

vim-plugins

fredley

@badp 5.89824e37 - lol

Kevin van der Velden

09:13

@badp that would actually be a useful plugin

badp

@KevinvanderVelden I don't even know if it can be a plugin

also the vim cheatsheet thing says that you can prefix some commands like "d" with a buffer where you can put what you delete into

I have to wonder if that doesn't create ambiguity

Kevin van der Velden

@badp sorta: github.com/Baranowski/habit-vim

That's more a wrapper than a plugin though

@badp not necessarily, you can start typeing "a and it could show "With buffer a..."

badp

@KevinvanderVelden yeah, but does that mean that "d" can't be a buffer?

fredley

Kevin van der Velden

@badp it can, you type " to specify that you are going to specify a buffer next, so deleting a line and storing it in buffer d would be "ddd (With buffer d, delete the line)

badp

09:17

oh. So when there's ambiguity you need to prefix with " if you meant to use a buffer

Kevin van der Velden

No, there's a default buffer, saying " means to store it in a specific buffer

So if you don't specify "d but just dd it will delete the line and store it in the default buffer

Crap, I want to make this now

badp

oh.

I've always wondered why Vim doesn't echo what you write, even at a basic level

Kevin van der Velden

It shows it in the status bar for me, that might be a config option, I don't remember

Oh, and you could dump the mappings with this question stackoverflow.com/questions/7642746/… for customized vim installations

badp

09:42

Not sure if trolling or serious

Kevin van der Velden

Serious

Undefined behavior means the compiler can do damn near anything it wants (and the standard explicitly allows those consequences to act on things before the undefined behavior)

Martin Sojka

@KevinvanderVelden I checked C++ 1.3.24 and don't see the "before" part.

If a compiler does that due to optimisation, the optimisation step is buggy.

badp

@KevinvanderVelden Yes but will real world compilers actively realize that you messed up, keep silent and antagonize you?

Nevermind that they are technically able to do so.

Kevin van der Velden

@MartinSojka cpp0x.centaur.ath.cx/intro.execution.html 1.9.5 does, but that's the working draft

badp

"OH HEY THIS ELSE BRANCH HAS AN ERROR IN IT, LET'S OPTIMIZE IT AWAY ENTIRELY"

soon your program is reduced to int main(){fuck_you_I_am_a_compiler();}

Kevin van der Velden

09:54

@badp they do some weird shit: blog.regehr.org/archives/767

badp

@KevinvanderVelden all I know is that from now on I'm compiling with -O0 :P

Kevin van der Velden

@badp and/or -Wall -Werror -pedantic-error

fredley

10:08

-PedandtryAll

Matt Эллен

That guy Max has some weird requirements for giving out boosts

badp

@fredley wtf, why hit it at 2?

@KevinvanderVelden In games that make sense you want to hit it at GO

Kevin van der Velden

@badp because that's when you get max boost

No no no, you want to rev the engine, because I dunno

5pike

@badp Are you seriously looking for "sense" in a mario kart game?

Kevin van der Velden

Hold the brakes down and floor it, then take off with squealing tires!

fredley

10:16

Before 2:

After 2:

Kevin van der Velden

10:34

So that male/female segregated eSports tournament? All the male tournaments are open to all, but there's still female only ones for some reason

So, yeah! I think, it's still downright weird

Matt Эллен

I guess their reasoning is that men, and especially male gamers, can be really misogynistic (see reactions to female game critics) so giving women a "safe space" is a good idea because that means they'll be more likely to stick around and enjoy games. I don't know

badp

or there's so few women in the scene that making a women-only tourney may encourage them to join in?

Kevin van der Velden

Plausible, they're doing the same thing as chess is now though. A tournament open to all and a tournament specifically for women, their reasoning is to get more women to play the game at all

badp

Meanwhile on the internet

Matt Эллен

lol

Kevin van der Velden

10:47

... nicely done

Lazers

0

Q: place a wet sponge using setblock command

Does someone know how to place a wet sponge? I tried to get the dataTag but it doesn't have a dataTag so i tried /setblock ~ ~ ~ wet_sponge and that also didn't work.

minecraft

0

Q: why is camping considered bad gameplay?

why is camping generally looked down on in fps/tps games games? some classes come equipped with long range guns that are nearly impossible to aim without stopping and aiming into a spot the enemy can run into.(i.e. you would have a sniper class blindly running and shooting)

first-person-shooter third-person-shooter

Wipqozn

11:25

@badp That's exactly what it is.

There are other female only eSports tournaments for the same reason.

Sterno

So clearly the men should be insulted by the segregation instead of the women!

SOMEONE HAS TO BE INSULTED

Wipqozn

11:41

@Sterno Both groups can be insulted at first glance if they want.

Sterno

You can actually capture an alien in Xenonauts before you get the tech for it if you throw enough flashbangs at one.

Reginald S. Terno

@Sterno You're so awesome.

Kevin van der Velden

OH GODS NO THE SOCK PUPPET IS IN CHAT

Arperum

@KevinvanderVelden They are interacting with eachother! Man the gunships!

Kevin van der Velden

@Arperum s/gunships/LAZERS

Arperum

11:55

@KevinvanderVelden How do you even man LAZERS? The Gunship shoots LAZERS. The LAZERS don't shoot gunships...

MBraedley

@fredley This is why I use nano

Kevin van der Velden

@Arperum with LAZERS, anything is possible

StrixVaria

17 hours ago, by StrixVaria

I'm just waiting for you to get 20 rep on the sockpuppet and then talk to yourself on chat to set up your own one-liners.

badp

Four bars of energy, FTL?

Kevin van der Velden

So, I'm fairly sure there are some Kerbal Spaceprogram players here: forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/…

MBraedley

11:59

WHAT HAPPENED TO MY EXTENSIONS!? If this were my personal computer, I'd have wiped and reloaded by now. My problems with this computer are definitely approaching the OS level.

Private Pansy

@badp Which ship are you playing, the Cerenkov?

fredley

@MBraedley That is an insanely compact state diagram for any reasonably capable program

badp

@PrivatePansy The default

but I had the great idea of picking a nebula sector which knocked off 4/8 bars

Kevin van der Velden

Aah nebulas, fun times

Private Pansy

Two to shield, one to Artemis missile and one to engine, perhaps?

Blem

12:03

I am so ready to go to bed

badp

I was running out of oxygen and had to heal people who suffered choking damage

I have no idea how I made it out of that

Oh, yeah, with almost no hull :P

can I do anything about those rooms? beyond reaching a store for repairs

3ventic

Repair the hull breaches with the engi?

badp

uh. yeah.

Private Pansy

Should be fine. The engi would be able to repair fast enough before he suffocates

And hull hitpoints have nothing to do with room breaches

3ventic

and you could always send 2 people in to repair faster

Private Pansy

12:07

You should vent the side and back compartments, by the way

badp

@PrivatePansy you mean for intrusions?

Kevin van der Velden

@badp should be fine, just send 2 people to repair it and swap them out when they're nearly dead

Private Pansy

Yeah. The bottom most breach is almost completely harmless too

badp

I repaired them anyway

wat. Now there's exclamation points on the map.

Martin Sojka

12:22

IeSF got their heads out of their arses about the gender-divided e-sports tournaments ... somewhat. Tekken Tag Tournament 2 remains women-only. Well, it's a start.

StrixVaria

Sigh

Martin Sojka

People who still complain about campers in this day and age need to learn how to teamwork.

Frank

That question should not have been mod opened.

If it truly is good subjective, the community could've reopened it in short order.

badp

12:38

3 mods reviewed it and found it good subjective; that's good enough

Frank

@badp No, it's not.

It's not five comminity members.

Jutschge

@Frank in your eyes

user15026

@Frank Why not?

Frank

@Jutschge Yes. And you had voted to reopen, I'd have no issue with it.

badp

@Frank ...or one moderator.

Jutschge

12:39

i would've voted to reopen actually didn't see it though

Frank

I'm talking specifically about overriding community decisions.

@badp And you guys are exception handlers.

Not override the community on questions you want.

badp

Yeah, the community making wrong calls is thankfully exceptional

StrixVaria

I'm going to chalk this "community decision" up to not quite remembering the "Good Subjective" guidelines. That's why it's re-linked in the comments.

Frank

@StrixVaria I'd appreciate you not strawmanning my decision, thank you.

user15026

@Frank It fits all of the good subjective.

Jutschge

12:41

still the question can be answered by "experts" and it can be a good answer

Frank

@AshleyNunn And I disagree.

Martin Sojka

Ah wait, IeSF actually added TTT2 open-for-all too. Well, all's good then. The female-only variants are a bit superfluous in my eyes, but as long as nobody forces me to watch them or care about the results ...

user15026

@Frank And I disagree with you!

Frank

3 mins ago, by Frank

If it truly is good subjective, the community could've reopened it in short order.

Seriously; that's the whole point of the community.

badp

@Frank I really dislike saying this kind of stuff, but that's a huge strawman

Private Pansy

12:41

@badp Would that be the rebel fleet advancing on the beacons?

Frank

What good is it for us to be able to make decisions if they're not honored?

badp

@PrivatePansy No, that's two exclamation marks

StrixVaria

@Frank Please provide specific details about which of the 6 points it doesn't meet, and why.

Otherwise your argument is a waste of time.

Wipqozn

@Frank Don't forget that mods are intended to be exception handlers, and are given the ability to override community open/close votes as part of that exception handling.

user15026

@Frank That's a little dramatic. It was one decision.

Frank

12:43

@Wipqozn A question closed for ten minutes isn't an exception by any metric whatsoever.

StrixVaria

@Frank It was exceptional in that it was closed erroneously.

Frank

@AshleyNunn And I will continue to fight against mod fiat.

@StrixVaria In your, single, opinion.

badp

If you seriously think that we reopened the question in spite of measly worthless community member peons, I am not interested in this discussion.

Frank

Which gives you one vote.

user15026

@Frank So we aren't supposed to do the things we are diamonded to do?

Wipqozn

12:44

@Frank Not really commenting in this specific case. I'm just saying that mods are able to reopen questions by design. It's not abuse.

badp

@Frank No. You voted us to have five votes and we are going to use our five votes. Period.

Jutschge

@frank actually I think we are 5 people here right now that have the same opinion as @StrixVaria

Frank

@badp Actually, I didn't.

StrixVaria

@Frank You can't use that word "single" since there are multiple. You still haven't explained what makes it bad subjective. And my one MOD vote, which was a privilege given to me by the community for trusting my judgment.

badp

You the community.

user15026

12:44

@Frank Well, a lot of other people did.

Frank

Then let them use their votes!

What you did just took that decision right out of their hands!

That is specifically what I'm challenging, and will always do so.

Martin Sojka

@Frank They did, by choosing representatives to vote on their behalf.

StrixVaria

@Frank Instead of yelling at the mods for using their community-granted privileges, why don't you focus your efforts on explaining why this is actually a bad question.

badp

I am not interested in "us poor disempowered users vs them nazi modraters" debates, especially from long standing communtiy members

Frank

@StrixVaria Because I believe the focus is primarily opinion based. And I voted accordingly.

user15026

12:46

@Frank Why is it opinion based?

StrixVaria

@Frank Which of the 6 "good subjective" guidelines does it violate?

Without explaining that, your argument is irrelevant.

Jutschge

i think the mod-reopen just sped up the whole reopen process...

badp

@Frank So did we, you know.

Martin Sojka

It's not like I didn't have clashes with mods before - and I'll likely continue doing so - but at some point, you can voice your disagreement and make sure to vote accordingly come next mod elections, and get on with your life.

Frank

@Frank Mods pretty much rule over the site, normal community members really only "help", but mod is final. Kind of meh and counter-intuitive to "community owned" but whatever. I do strongly think this is an opinion question as 'camper' has no solid definition — Rapitor 3 mins ago

That seems to be a pretty good one.

Jutschge

12:47

@Frank so you want to say an expert can't answer this question well?

StrixVaria

@Frank Are you not familiar with the 6 points? Which point does that violate?

Seriously, if you keep just saying "opinion based" without saying what good subjective guideline it violates, you are not contributing meaningfully to the chat.

Private Pansy

Hmm, did Gmail just get a new favicon?

Wipqozn

@Frank Camping has a pretty solid definition. It even has a wikipedia page about the entire topic:

Camping (gaming)

In video gaming, camping is a tactic where a player obtains a static strategic position of advantage. This behaviour manifests in different ways depending on the underlying nature of the game (online text adventure, graphical MMO, first-person shooter, etc.), but invariably involves a player waiting in one location for the game (or other players of the game) to do something which they can take advantage of, often repeatedly. That camping is often seen as a method for circumventing much of the effort usually required to acquire a desired reward makes the activity contentious. Among many...

Frank

@StrixVaria And you're not helping by going, "point, or GTFO"

user15026

@Wipqozn You got there faster than me!

Wipqozn

12:48

> This behaviour manifests in different ways depending on the underlying nature of the game (online text adventure, graphical MMO, first-person shooter, etc.), but invariably involves a player waiting in one location for the game (or other players of the game) to do something which they can take advantage of, often repeatedly.

user15026

Damn it, caffeine jittery fingers

StrixVaria

@Frank Because you're the one trying to prove a point, but you're doing it without actually making any points.

badp

@Frank No, that is your problem. What is your point? We have brought forward an argument and your rebuttal so far is "YOU don't get to make that point"

Frank

Nowhere is my choice given any weight in any meaningful point, all because mods are, "Good question! Must keep!"

badp

That is an ad hominem if I've ever seen one.

user15026

12:49

@Frank Because you aren't making any argument other than "I am mad you made a decision"

Frank

@AshleyNunn Which is my entire point!

StrixVaria

@Frank This is not the information I'm trying to get out of you right now. You voted to close a question. WHY?

badp

@Frank And that is a strawman, also known as something that holds no weight whatsoever.

user15026

@Frank But you haven't given us any indication about WHY the decision was incorrect, giving us no avenue to even consider a change.

Wipqozn

@Frank I think the intention behind asking why you think it violates it is to see if you can both come to an understanding, not to tell you to "GTFO."

3

badp

12:50

rolls eyes

Origami Robot

yawn What did I wake up to?

user15026

@OrigamiRobot The usual Bridge happy fun times

Martin Sojka

By the way, that's how we Vanu do camping. It's happy fun times in spandex, and lots of dead flyboys crying sweet, sweet tears. ;)

►

fredley

@PrivatePansy I'ts just you

Martin Sojka

Speaking of which, Hossin (the fourth continent) opened up this week. Looking forward to some jungle fighting.

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