The Upper Room

wax eagle

12:07 AM

@Anonymous not at all.

Anonymous

12:20 AM

@waxeagle Okay. Then, what do you believe in after death?

wax eagle

12:32 AM

@Anonymous oh I believe in a heaven, and a hell (And that those who go to heaven will populate a restored earth following Christ's glorious return), I just am highly skeptical of any modern regaling of tales of people who have "Seen the other sidE"

Anonymous

1:06 AM

@waxeagle Very interesting. I thought you would say, "Oh, look, heaven and hell are real!!! People have seen heaven and hell! You're wrong; I'm right! God does exist!" That sort of thing.

I suppose Christians can be skeptics too instead of people who would accept dogma unquestionably.

Besides, the most important part of being Christian is the commitment to Christ or thinking that Christ is somehow better than other people.

Does Elisha speak?

1:32 AM

0

Q: A moderator - Caleb - asked me to recreate the question. Now what?

I asked this question. How are Lutheran weekday “prayer services” different from “matins” or “vespers”? The problem was, that question was an edit on a closed question, because the earlier closed question was too broad. So, a moderator - Caleb - suggested that I should recreate the question, and ...

discussion

Anonymous

1:44 AM

@Daи Do you think I am ignorant? I am just asking out of curiosity. :)

I wonder how others think of me.

wax eagle

@Anonymous thats a loaded question

Anonymous

There is this term in Chinese, 傻瓜 (shǎ guā), which can be translated as "silly" or "foolish". It can be used as a term of endearment, as in the example of the Sagwa, the Chinese Siamese Cat. There is also this term in Chinese, 嫩头娃(nèn tóu wá), which can be translated as "tender head", another term of endearment that means "silly" or "foolish" with an added meaning of "unskilled".

wax eagle

"silly ol bear?"

Anonymous

1:59 AM

@waxeagle I think Sagwa's name is fitting, because the little cat doesn't know any better and is very naive or innocent.

Sometimes, I empathize with Sagwa's curious character.

@waxeagle I think I used the wrong terminology.

I suppose "silly" carries a more positive connotation.

wax eagle

ignorant almost always carries the connotation of insult. So even if it were correct to say that one were ignorant, you wouldn't actually say that.

To everyone who responds to everything by saying they've 'lost their faith in humanity': Thanks--I'll let humanity know. I'm sure they'll be crushed.

3

is relevant

specially in light by this blog post from a leading indie game designer: walkingmind.evilhat.com/2014/06/25/…

Anonymous

2:17 AM

@waxeagle I think I should have used the term "silly" then.

wax eagle

@Anonymous quite possible

Anonymous

But that should be taken with caution, since Jane Austen uses the term "silly" to describe some of the Bennet girls. :P

Anonymous

2:39 AM

@waxeagle Actually, I think the comic is consoling. :D

Daи

@Anonymous as @waxeagle said, that's a loaded question. I think you make ignorant (i.e. ill-/mis-informed) statements at times, but I wouldn't make a generalized statement that 'you are ignorant.'

Anonymous

11 hours ago, by Daи

@Anonymous those are the types of generalized statements that simply make folks think you're ignorant ;)

Daи

@Anonymous 'make folks think you're...' is not the same as saying, 'you are'

Anonymous

@Daи Perception is important.

Daи

@Anonymous true, and that's why I said anything. Again, if I didn't give a rat's arse, I would just ignore you - it's much easier ;)

Anonymous

2:55 AM

@Daи On the other hand, ignoring me may be quite beneficial. Then, no one would correct me, and I may get away with the falsehoods. :P

Daи

@Anonymous :P

Anonymous

@Daи Now, if there were an added button that allows people to ignore on the Main SE, and you happened to use it, then you wouldn't be able to see my questions or answers, which may be a good thing, because I would have no competition in Lutheranism! Yea! :P

I believe there are many ways to express love. Rebuke is one of them.

I think it's at least better than violence and murder.

Daи

3:19 AM

@Anonymous check out Proverbs 27:5-6

Anonymous

3:39 AM

@Daи I don't understand why some (Western) atheists would be receptive to Confucius or the Buddha or Lao Tzu and then completely reject the Bible's teachings.

Maybe some Western atheists are more sensitive to Christianity and don't want anything to do with Christianity?

Perhaps, the chief problem is how some of the Western atheists are raised?

Perhaps, some Western atheists are brought up in Christian households, and all their lives, they are told that Christianity is the #1 religion, and that all other religions in the world are evil or something.

I wish more atheists would examine religion from a primarily academic perspective, focusing on anthropology, psychology, and the sociology of religion. And also study religious literature from an academic perspective. So, even if atheists don't trust the religious institutions, maybe atheists would extract some uses from religion for their own personal use, like how non-Buddhists practice Buddhist meditation for healthy living.

fredsbend

4:26 AM

@waxeagle I was hoping you, caleb, and El would weigh in on my most recent meta posts. I didn't ping them because they have not posted here recently enough.

5

Q: Should we accept "Help me find this thing" questions?

Recently we received this question: Kids christian music from the 80's which asks us to help him identify some music he remembers listening to when he was a child in the 1980's (though I can't imagine why). I first thought that this was close to the culture/fiction topics that the community ge...

discussion close-reasons off-topic

6

Q: Should we encourage/discourage bait titles? Should titles stand on their own?

How strict should we be on question titles? There are a few questions on the site that are on topic, but at reading the title on its own it appears off-topic. However, I notice that this is tolerated when the title is worded in a way that will likely help the page with SEO and generally is more ...

discussion asking-questions titles

A comment here is enough if it's just "I agree with this answer".

Thanks

Daи

@Anonymous many folks have observed that Western atheism is moreso anti-Christian

I recommend:

amazon.com/Atheist-Delusions-Christian-Revolution-Fashionable/…

it does a good job examining both the philosophy and the history of Western atheism

fredsbend

@Daи I agree. They largely consist of people who have a bad history with Christians. Compared to the indifferent skeptic who just simply is not convinced.

Daи

@fredsbend it is the opinion of some Eastern Orthodox Christians that Western Christianity breeds atheism

particularly the strong Calvinist variety

I think there are some interesting points in that argument, but it's an oversimplification. More important is the false mantra and pseudo-history of modernity that is believed by most in the Western world, which the above book shows to be inaccurate and deeply biased

fredsbend

4:45 AM

@Daи I can buy that, but I don't think the strong Calvinist type is the most likely source. I would lean toward the hypocritical, outspoken, non-denominational types.

What is "the false mantra and pseudo-history of modernity?"

fredsbend

4:56 AM

@Anonymous That's asking a lot.

Anonymous

11:33 AM

@Daи "Many folks" is a weasel word. What are the "many folks" here?

@Daи It seems to me that you are a big fan of David Bentley Hart. :P

@fredsbend That is understandable. In the psychology of religion, there is a paradigm that is still in effect today and that divides religiosity to extrinsic religiosity, intrinsic religiosity, and quest orientation. It's originally created by Allport, and it's been developed ever since.

Jack Douglas

@Daи that's interesting because it is the opinion of some strong Calvinist Christians that the foolishness of the human heart breeds atheism

:)

That book looks interesting

Anonymous

@JackDouglas I thought you would cite Psalm 14:1.

Jack Douglas

@Anonymous good choice!

@Anonymous unsurprisingly Paul does in Romans

Anonymous

@JackDouglas assuming that part of the Bible is written by Paul and that he is well-versed in the Torah.

Jack Douglas

"Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God"

and if you can find me a credible claim that the epistle to the Romans was written by someone not well-versed in the Torah I'll eat my hat

Anonymous

11:49 AM

@JackDouglas assuming that you have a hat and that the hat is edible. ;)

Jack Douglas

ha ha, I don't have a hat at all

but I think we understand each other ;)

@Anonymous do you like Psalm 14? It is hard reading to modern eyes I think.

the idea that we are basically 'good' is deeply ingrained in our thinking, at least here in the individualistic West

Anonymous

@JackDouglas Actually, I became acquainted with that verse, when I was strolling along the college campus one day and heard an outdoor sermon by Tom Short, the Fundamentalist/Evangelical Christian preacher, and at the time, one student said, quoting the scripture, "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no god'." And Tom Short used that as an indication that you should read with context.

@JackDouglas I am not sure how that is a connection with the idea that people are basically good, or treating the idea that people are basically good pejoratively.

Jack Douglas

DEAD MAN: I am basically a good person.
GOD: Would you still believe that if I told you it isn't true?
DEAD MAN: Of course!
GOD: What if I told you that usurping my moral authority, taking upon yourself the right and authority to pronounce judgement on what is good and what is evil, is the most heineous and indeed the first crime that humankind can commit. And that as all-powerful and righteous judge, I can and will excercise eternal judgement upon those who presume to dare to challange my moral authority?

3

Anonymous

@JackDouglas In the context of Christianity, I see the point that human nature is sinful.

I remember learning about how different literary movements in the history of the United States had their own thoughts about human nature.

Jack Douglas

12:05 PM

@Anonymous the context is the existence (or otherwise) of an absolute moral authority that judges those who refuse to accept it, not necessarily that of 'Christianity'.

Anonymous

@fredsbend Sometimes, professors of religious studies may give lectures for the general public's interest. These lectures are typically focused on the sociology, psychology, and anthropology of religion.

@JackDouglas That is assuming that there is an absolute moral authority that gives judgments. This assumption is not necessarily the case in Eastern religions, which are less god-centered.

Jack Douglas

@Anonymous my edit was to make clear that I'm not pre-supposing that assumption, merely emphasizing that the truth or otherwise of the existence of such an authority is an important factor in decision-making.

ie it's important for one to decide whether one believes it or not

assuming one doesn't like very very nasty surprises

Anonymous

@JackDouglas I suppose the "authority" can be interpreted as "reason and values".

Jack Douglas

@Anonymous I don't think so

that really is a different thing

unless you mean 'someone elses' reason and values rather than your own

and for that to be comparable that person or persons would need to wield the sword to make it significant in the same way

and even then we are lowered to the comparable insignificant level of concerning ourselves with temporal judgements rather than eternal

Anonymous

@JackDouglas Well, elderly persons are generally thought of being more wise, because they process semantic memories more efficiently than episodic memories. So, younger individuals may listen to their parents and grandparents, because they may provide wiser decisions.

Jack Douglas

12:16 PM

@Anonymous please would you tell that to my children?

@Anonymous are/were your parent/grandparents wiser than you?

Anonymous

@JackDouglas I thought that's a cultural value. :P

Jack Douglas

@Anonymous my limited exposure to families from cultures that value the elderly as wise, is that even there, children have to be taught and disciplined into the truth of it, not "younger individuals may listen to their parents and grandparents, because they may provide wiser decisions."

was that your experience growing up?

also how old are you, I'm 39, if you are younger than that you need to just accept what I say as being wiser than what you say.

5

Anonymous

@JackDouglas I guess so.

@JackDouglas I think you are forgetting familial obligation, loyalty, and duty.

Jack Douglas

@Anonymous I'm afraid I forget those things all too often

Paul Vargas

1:36 PM

@Anonymous You said some time ago that this passage should be interpreted as the ancients did do it. However, you did not mention any reference to support such idea.

Where Tom Short got that conclusion? You heard that from him.

Paul Vargas

2:03 PM

I would like to wish all of my atheist friends a very happy National Atheist Day. (Psalm 14:1)

Tweeted by tomthepreacher on April 1, 2012 at 11:14 PM

Daи

2:19 PM

@fredsbend that whole book is devoted to answering that question ;)

Anonymous

@PaulVargas Tom Short is an itinerant campus preacher, who is more quieter than the other preachers and draws a more peaceful crowd, but still has extremely socially conservative beliefs. He always likes to preach about God and then answer students' questions. I have never heard the full sermon, because I usually have to go to class. But sometimes, students stop by and hear what he's up to. Most of the time, people just walk by him as if he just doesn't exist. :P

@Daи How many books by David Bentley Hart have you read?

Daи

@fredsbend actually, read the first quote on this page, that's a good summary

@Anonymous true, for starters, Fr. Kalamiros (River of Fire), David Bentley Hart (although he would distinguish between classical and 'new' atheism), many great thinkers of the French Revolution, many others....

@Anonymous I am

@JackDouglas I would agree, Kalamiros goes a bit too far when indicting Western Christianity (although he explicitly means Calvinism) as the cause of atheism

Paul Vargas

2:37 PM

@Anonymous If you don't mind, what is your interpretation of Psalm 14:1?

Daи

@Anonymous that is the only book I've read of his. I've watched several of his lectures on YouTube as well

Paul Vargas

Hi, @Daи How have you been? How many books do you read a week? :-)

The seminar told me that I should take time to read the list of books. However, they still do not send me the list.

The course will begin in August.

Daи

2:55 PM

@PaulVargas it depends on the week, length & complexity of the book, etc.

If fiction or short and easier-to-digest non-fiction, perhaps 1-2 a week. For more complex stuff, longer. Plus it depends on how busy I am and whatnot.

A good fiction novel can be read in a day or two for me, sacrificing sleep

Paul Vargas

@Daи It's been a long time since I read some fiction.

Welcome aboard, @Christopher

Daи

@PaulVargas I need to read more of it, but my reading list of non-fiction is soooo long

Anonymous

4:19 PM

@Daи I tried to search Fr. Kalamiros and David Bentley Hart on Google, and both of them seemed to be associated with Orthodox Christianity, because their names appeared on Orthodox Christian-affiliated websites. There were many thinkers of the French Revolution, including Voltaire. I wonder which one you must be thinking of, as you write the above post. And "many others" leads to carm.org, which is a conservative Protestant website.

I feel sorry for the writer on CARM. If he had talked with atheists in person than on Internet chatrooms, then maybe he would have met some nice atheists.

I think the writer on CARM should have at least visited a more academically oriented social group.

@Daи So, does this Kalamiros talk about atheism in Asian countries? Or does he only focus on atheism in the West?

TRiG

Source: SMBC

Anonymous

@Daи He has a Youtube channel too? Do you ever comment on his videos or channel? Is he famous there? How many views does he have? How many featured videos does he have? How did you find about his Youtube channel?

fredsbend

4:52 PM

@TRiG I think he'd yell heretic first.

Daи

@Anonymous you can Google all of that yourself ;) - I just googled his name

TRiG

Oct 4 '11 at 19:02, by TRiG

I'm not sure that intrinsically good is a useful, or even meaningful, measure. I'd go with intrinsically valuable. Humans are valuable (to humans, which is what we are). Hence we should seek to minimise pain. And there's the basic foundation of a consistent ethical system.

Oct 4 '11 at 19:09, by TRiG

> Liberals prioritize very different values from conservatives. When asked a series of questions about different ethical situations, self-described liberals strongly tend to prioritize fairness and harm as the most important of these core values — while self-described conservatives are more likely to prioritize authority, loyalty, and purity.

fredsbend

@JackDouglas "any who seek God." And what should the devout Christian think when he seeks God for 10 years, but has no successful, meaningful connection? Suppose he then turns away from the faith, feeling like God is not real?

TRiG

@Anonymous The writer on CARM is more interested in spewing bile than in anything else. I used to frequent the CARM forums: it is not a healthy place.

fredsbend

The Bible seems to promise something for believers who earnestly seek. But that just doesn't happen for some.

@TRiG @JackDouglas I would like to second that. People sometimes say good, but they mean more like TRiG has used it here. We are what we are and right and wrong are still pretty obvious to both camps.

Utilitarianism is paramount to most Atheists, I think.

> Utilitarianism is a theory in normative ethics holding that the proper course of action is the one that maximizes utility, usually defined as maximizing total benefit and reducing suffering or the negatives.

Always searching for the win-win.

AJ Henderson

5:13 PM

@Anonymous glad to see I'm not the only one who has noticed that it seems like there are a lot of vocal belligerent atheists on the internet, while many of the atheists that are actually nice and don't see the need to be constantly on the offensive don't bother talking about religious things often in general (which I suppose generally makes sense)

@fredsbend at least in the west. Would be interesting to see if athiests in say, Japan, took a different style

TRiG

@AJHenderson That's something I really should look up myself.

AJ Henderson

Western culture in general is very utilitarian, so it follows that atheists, without a religious base, would follow the direction of the culture generally

where as there are other cultures that much more value the good of the whole over the individual and tend to be more top down, respect your superiors type values

I'd suspect that atheists in those cultures would take on moral systems more in line with that structure

fredsbend

@AJHenderson I think in the end, if nepotism or some other bias doesn't come into the equation, most people wish to just get along with everyone and be left alone on things that simply don't matter.

AJ Henderson

@fredsbend right, but culture lays out how to get along

since it is the foundation around which the civilization is able to move at least semi-cohesively

fredsbend

@AJHenderson The first part there is utilitarian. "Maximize total benefit". Utilitarianism mandates that you sacrifice yourself for the greater good.

Take the bullet, kind of thinking.

AJ Henderson

5:20 PM

@fredsbend while not a particularly convincing argument, the conventional response is generally that you are looking for the wrong thing somehow (of course the cynical way of putting it is "keep looking until you identify something that could be "something")

fredsbend

@AJHenderson That's the trick, right? Exact enough to keep you doing some things, but vague enough to keep you from skepticism.

If God can be found and He wants to know me, He should come when I knock at His door. Isn't that a verse somewhere?

TRiG

@AJHenderson I suspect that if you go looking somewhere for guidance, you're eventually going to find guidance there.

AJ Henderson

@TRiG yes, that was my point, which brings up the more meaningful question of how do you tell if something is real or imagined and that is hard to answer

fredsbend

@AJHenderson Hence, what I just said. I guess we are all on the same page.

AJ Henderson

Personally, I feel like I've had clear enough things without looking too much, but I'm not sure how I'd handle it if I hadn't seen things that clearly seemed to fit fairly early

I guess that's where pastors and/or close religious friends you know come in because they know your life and might be able to say more about things that might be a problem that could be fixed, but if nobody sees a problem and you still aren't getting any result, then that leaves you in a very awkward spot

TRiG

5:34 PM

@AJHenderson I have, more than once, compared the Bible to a Rorschach ink blot.

AJ Henderson

which I am glad I am not personally in

and I suppose another part of it for me is that a lot of it inherently makes sense to me. For example, I think evidence is pretty clear that people are naturally evil and that we are incapable of picking ourselves up and making some perfect world

clearly there is either a) something broken that can be fixed or b) it's just random chance and there is no hope

I prefer the former

granted, that still doesn't tell you for sure if it is true or simply written by a series of people who understood human nature really well

but it did take a very different approach to most other world religions which I think is interesting

Jack Douglas

@fredsbend I understand what you are asking I think, but the more profound question (at least to my thinking) is whether God has any right to judge by his own standards rather than our standards of fairness (and I'm not presuming any two of us share a standard). In other words if God spits in someone's face every day of the short miserable life he has given them, is God still able to condemn them if He so pleases? I believe the short answer to that question is "Job".

... and the slightly longer answer is to actually read Job :)

AJ Henderson

so for me, I think my faith is mostly based around the world appearing consistent with what scripture says about it, having had a few experiences that seemed to be unlikely as coincidences both due to their unlikely nature and their pivotal role in my development and also probably a small part of "if this isn't the case and life just is, it would be a far less desirable existence"

TRiG

32

Q: What is unique about Christianity?

Inspired by this question: How do Christians explain to commonalities between their religion, other major faiths and obscure isolated tribal belief systems? What is fundamentally unique about Christianity? Obviously there are different stories, texts, and traditions associated with Christianity...

comparative-religion

^^ I'm not at all sure I agree with most of the answers to that question.

AJ Henderson

then within that belief, I believe I see God operating, but not so clearly as a few specific cases that seemed to defy probability. It's far harder in the day to day to see if something is God acting or just life happening.

Jack Douglas

5:45 PM

@fredsbend If one accepts that God really does have that right (and will indeed choose to exercise it as He sees fit), it has a profound effect on our feelings and our concepts of fairness.

TRiG

@JackDouglas If God's standards of fairness, love, etc. are completely different to our own, if he is not fair or loving as we understand the words, then he isn't fair or loving. At all. Languages are defined by their users.

Jack Douglas

@TRiG It's not completely different to our own, it's just not subject to it.

TRiG

Feb 24 at 20:36, by TRiG

If your God is not just by that definition (or, by those definitions), then your God is not just.

^^ We've had this conversation before.

Jack Douglas

you can say God is cruel for bringing the Babylonians down on Judah, or you can say he was astonishingly patient to restrain himself from doing it sooner.

s/Judah/me

it's more about perspective than it is about having an opposite idea of what love is: and that isn't surprising because human ideas of love have be shaped an molded by God's unfolding revelation of his own standards

AJ Henderson

@JackDouglas I would argue that God wouldn't be just in doing that if he didn't put what is just on our hearts. When you get down to it though, I think everyone has a proper understanding of what is right, they just choose to prefer their own way

even justifying it to themselves as more right

wax eagle

5:51 PM

@JackDouglas The same with the residents of Canaan in exodus. They were cursed in Genesis...by Noah!

TRiG

Oct 4 '11 at 19:03, by TRiG

@waxeagle I am not the universe. Collective guilt is not my thing.

Sep 14 '12 at 18:15, by TRiG

@Wikis Did you see the question here about what was unique about Christianity? I think all of the answers contained misunderstandings of other religions.

Sep 14 '12 at 18:31, by TRiG

And, of course, if you frame a question in very specifically Christian terms, and then pretend it's amazing that only Christianity provides an adequate answer, you're just being dishonest.

@waxeagle Collective guilt, especially inherited collective guilt, is a bit ... off, don't you think?

Jack Douglas

@TRiG but to be clear, I agree that those words don't capture God's essence, and their meaning even fluctuates over time (unlike God's character) so in that precise sense it is true to say God is not completely fair or loving by any one person's or period's particular definition of 'fair' or 'love'. The non-subjective thing to do is to understand from the Bible what God (that is, the God of the Bible, real or not) is really like rather than relying on shared perception of meanings of words

which I think you have done and concluded that you don't like him

wax eagle

@TRiG in this case, the culpability is both corporate and personal.

(and IMO in all cases)

Jack Douglas

@waxeagle yes :)

not to mention Adam and Eve

TRiG

@JackDouglas There are various depictions of God out there. Some I quite like.

I just don't think the evidence for their existence is very strong.

Jack Douglas

5:57 PM

@TRiG that is a different (but no less important) issue

@TRiG I'm 85% sure :)

TRiG

in Jaami'at StackExchange al-Islamy, Feb 8 '13 at 21:40, by TRiG

@El'endiaStarman I have pu-lenty of opinions on what god should be like ....

Jack Douglas

(speaking as a scientist)

@TRiG It's always nice to pick and choose, but just like with people you have to love the whole of them or you aren't really loving them at all

TRiG

I get the feeling that now is an appropriate time for a George Bernard Shaw line.

> I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation.

I don't know why I so often dredge up old conversations when I'm having new ones. It just seems to be the way my brain works.

If it annoys any of ye, let me know and I'll try to curb it.

Jack Douglas

6:12 PM

@TRiG I think it is helpful

stops us going round the same circles!

TRiG

6:28 PM

In completely unrelated news,

> These arguments are not those of serious people.

Daи

7:06 PM

@TRiG @JackDouglas here's where dialectic (Barthian) theology comes in and asks, "What is justice?" Where you can both be correct in saying that God is both just and unjust

i.e. God transcends justice... and dialectic... and language... and....

and in the end, our only option is silence. And yet... this God speaks in human language

(this isn't meant to clarify anything)

El'endia Starman

@Daи Do you enjoy obfuscating code too? ;)

Daи

@El'endiaStarman haha all day long

(literally, in some ways - I obfuscate most of what I'm working on before asking about it on SE) :P

@El'endiaStarman too much to type otherwise, I learned the hard way that SQL Fiddle restricts your schema to 8000 characters

fredsbend

7:26 PM

Results in like 5 right?

warren

@fredsbend - effect can be a verb, too, as in "to effect change" :) (christianity.stackexchange.com/a/30481/69)

Malachi

I am waiting around for the Results too! someone please ping me when they are in!

fredsbend

@warren I guess you are right.

Damn english.

warren

i'm as much of a grammar geek as the next guy :)

lol

Time to paint another grammarian silhouette on the side of the desktop.

fredsbend

You know, every time I think I have one of those weird english things down I find out I'm wrong.

2

warren

7:29 PM

same here .. my typical fix when I can't recall the obscure rule (for affect-vs-effect, there's an English.SE answer (english.stackexchange.com/a/316/366)), I pick a sysnonym and/or reword my sentence

fredsbend

lol. Like porky pig. "Well, that's just si-s-ssi-s- ... a weird thing to do."

warren

hahaha

exactly :)

it's probably where we all learned it from

fredsbend

@Malachi Wolf!

lol

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend ......niiice...

Malachi

@fredsbend where are these results?

El'endia Starman

7:38 PM

@fredsbend At 4 pm EST. So about 22 minutes now.

TRiG

The Boy Who Cried Wolf

The Boy Who Cried Wolf is one of Aesop's Fables, numbered 210 in the Perry Index. From it is derived the English idiom "to cry wolf", meaning to give a false alarm. The fable The tale concerns a shepherd boy who repeatedly tricks nearby villagers into thinking a wolf is attacking his flock. When one actually does appear and the boy again calls for help, the villagers do not come thinking that it is another false alarm and the sheep are eaten by the wolf. The moral stated at the end of the Greek version is, "this shows how liars are rewarded: even if they tell the truth, no one believes ...

fredsbend

@Malachi You know the story

@TRiG beat me to it.

El'endia Starman

...double beat...darn...

I had the link ready and everything!

fredsbend

It's just a beat down fest in here. Like answering on SO.

Malachi

oh you are calling me out? I know the story, just not sure how it relates right now (whether I should be offended{lol} or not)

or is @fredsbend making fun of himself?

El'endia Starman

7:41 PM

@Malachi Well, fredsbend cried "Wolf!" and tricked you in coming in here for a false alarm.

Malachi

it's been a long day.....

fredsbend

@Malachi Just harmless play.

Malachi

@fredsbend that is what I figured....lol

fredsbend

Election page says another 18 minutes or so.

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend Also in 18 minutes or so: World Cup 2014: USA vs Belgium.

fredsbend

7:43 PM

@El'endiaStarman snore

Anonymous

@TRiG I was surprised that Peter Turner said "Christianity is the only religion that is not a religion", because Peter Turner says on his profile that he's a faithful Catholic, and I have always thought the belief that Christianity is not a religion is an Evangelical Protestant fad.

fredsbend

@Anonymous Peter says a lot of stuff that he leaves unexplained, but when he does, he blows me away.

Malachi

I think that I am going to try and read through all the questions and answers on the site and see if it makes me any more enlightened.....I just read some really good answers!

El'endia Starman

@fredsbend [smack smack smack] Wake up!

wax eagle

does anyone have OpenSTV fired up?

I don't have a copy on this computer

fredsbend

7:53 PM

@Malachi You have a lot of reading ahead of you then. I think there are about 10,000 posts on the site.

@waxeagle Nope, I trust SE.

wax eagle

@fredsbend but the compiled results will be delayed a few minutes, the ballots are available instantly

fredsbend

@waxeagle Ah. want to beat the SE servers to it, huh?

wax eagle

@fredsbend usually someone does

Malachi

@fredsbend it will be fun! maybe I can get my Copy Editor badge ;)

fredsbend

I can dig that

@Malachi Yes, I've been doing that before. Make sure that when you edit, you edit everything that is wrong. And not just on one post, but all the posts on the page.

Currently, I think Flimzy is the only user of this site with that badge.

Malachi

7:57 PM

@fredsbend I have my Copy Editor on Code Review. I usually do Edit the questions and the answers if I can (have time)

fredsbend

AAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. 1 MINUTE

in Christianity 2014 Election, 59 secs ago, by AJ Henderson

@DavidStratton You are now a Mod!

5

Caleb

@fredsbend Hey they have to issue him his hammer first. Time enough for everybody to get your tin-foil-hats on ;-)

3

Daи

@davidstratton congrats!!!

El'endia Starman

8:14 PM

Congratulations @davidstratton!!!

AJ Henderson

@Caleb I suppose I should delete all those things we said about david behind his back in Temperance huh?

Caleb

Apparently the hammer factory is having a hard time coming up with one of proper caliber for the hulk to wield.

fredsbend

@Caleb Does seem odd that SE waits so long to show results.

AJ Henderson

@fredsbend manual process

fredsbend

I guess, actually, that he has to accept the job.

TRiG

8:19 PM

Caleb

@fredsbend Nominating yourself implies you want it, so they issue your diamond right away but the first thing you have to do as a mod is sign the moderator agreement (mostly stuff about not revealing PII of site users), then you get the extra privs.

TRiG

I must go find an answer to downvote.

Caleb

@TRiG You shouldn't have to hunt far :/

fredsbend

@TRiG answer dv's come in pairs for me too.

Or you want the four deuces.

You can use the developer tools to change that stuff, then take the snapshot. We did it before in here.

see you all later.

@AJHenderson They actually manually count the votes?

TRiG

@Anonymous Any thoughts about this, @PeterTurner?

@Caleb Got one!

AJ Henderson

8:29 PM

@fredsbend they manually run OpenSTV

and manually have to assign the diamond

fredsbend

@TRiG And another one gone, and another one gone, another one bites the dust.

AJ Henderson

one of those things that isn't done often enough to automate

fredsbend

Makes sense. Don't want to trigger something. Best to keep those manual anyway.

Does Elisha speak?

5

Q: 2014 Community Moderator Election Results

Christianity's 2nd moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the new moderator is: He'll be joining the existing crew shortly — please thank him for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice as he learns the ropes! For details on how the voting played ...

discussion featured election

Undo

He's been diamonded.

Caleb

8:45 PM

@AJHenderson Just think. Nigel would find some bug in it and some troll would use his published exploit to get a diamond.

Caleb

9:17 PM

Appologies to whoevers comment flag I just declined. I thought the comment made sense and the flag was nonsence. Turns out I was reading the screen upsidedown and the comment was jiberish and the flag perfectly sensible.

3

Anonymous

10:10 PM

@fredsbend Catholicism, as AffableGeek puts it, is a "highly liturgical tradition". From a non-denominational evangelical Protestant point-of-view, that looks like "religion", and sadly, such Protestants frown on that.

fredsbend

10:47 PM

@Anonymous I think any group that organizes like minded believers of a particular god(s) has a very difficult task to convince a reasonable person that their group is not a religion, seeing as how that is the very definition of a religion. That's like Atheists refusing the term Agnostic, even though that is what they describe when they tell you exactly what they think.

The Non-denom's are just as much a religion as Catholic. They are very strict on what is to be believed by their members and they have often have equally strict, though unwritten, ways of performing their worship services.

At least the Catholics spell everything out and don't pretend that they are not what they are.

Further, I have actually rarely heard any Christian say Christianity was not a religion.

AJ Henderson

11:10 PM

@fredsbend it's a fairly common use of expression

not that it literally isn't a religion, but that it is not based in organized religion

fredsbend

11:28 PM

@AJHenderson But it kinda is ... They all kind of are. Even if you say "well, we take the Bible only and that's it," you still end up making a system of faith and worship out of it. It is even call Systematic Theology, when you take the Bible as a whole and develop theological principles from it.

Give them a few hundred years and they will look like Lutheranism. Give them a thousand years and they will look like Catholicism. We, as a species, tend toward ordering things and placing them in a hierarchy.

I even have a book titled The order of things that simply lists the world's hierarchies. Everything from religion to sports.

"Who's first? Who's the expert? Who's in charge? Who does the populace favor?" and so on. The disciples even asked this of Jesus.

Naturally, He told them just to knock it off, but that's why the saying goes, "I'm only human."

Does Elisha speak?

11:43 PM

0

Q: Why are edits not presented to posters for review before they are apporoved

It is frustrating to get a notice that your question has been reviewed and some questionable substitution approved, and you were not even aware that your question was even being considered for editing ...

discussion

Anonymous

11:58 PM

@fredsbend There is a term called "agnostic atheist".

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