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3:52 AM
@Doorknob glad it is working out.
3 hours later…
6:55 AM
so apparently we only have 1500mb data usage left for the rest of the month, after that it's $30/gb
and yet again, my so question goes unanswered, not even a comment
and i got downvoted on an answer because I simplified away the element that the user was having a problem with...?
2 hours later…
9:10 AM
I've got an idea for a more advanced Clacker animation challenge, by allowing 2D regions to be covered by each command. And accepting a string of arguments to apply to each pixel, ie. a bitmap in every command instead of just a bit.
9:26 AM
why not a turing complete boolean expression language to evaluate for each block? xD
I've thought about something like that, but the details elude me.
And then of course it would need to get out of the loop somehow.
I was thinking it could have "jumps" to sequences.
Then someway to modify the bitmaps in the instructions themselves. I was thinking of having a watchacallit ... register-queue-thingy ... you know the thing with delays ... dammit watsit called??
Anyway, one of those as a pipeline cache, holding the next screen's-worth of instructions, and those can somehow be the target. Maybe with negative indices.
Hmm. with 2D-bitmaps, the screen's-worth is no longer a useful measurement. ...
so you can't just loop over every pixel and set it's value to the return value of a function that takes the pixel's x and y?
and then start over?
time for a pymockup
9:43 AM
I don't understand the question. :( You loop over the region and apply the ... yes, Boolean function ... with the current pixel as X and the bit from the instruction as Y.
I'm relieved that I got rid of the Boolean chains before anybody pointed-out how stupid useless and difficult it was. :)
class aThing:
	def __init__(self, w, h, rule):
		self.rule = eval("lambda x,y,v:"+rule)
		scrt = [False for i in range(w)]
		self.screen = [scrt for i in range(h)]
	def runOnce(self):
		self.screen = [[self.rule(x,y,c) for x, c in rc)] for y, rc in enumerate(self.screen)]
self.screen can be accessed from within self.rule afaik, making it turing-complete
and you write in python :P
e.g. x = aThing(10, 10, "(x+y)%2==v")
that should make a constantly inverting grid i think maybe
Yeah. That's the idea. The Bohm-Jacopini theorem for Turing-Completeness requires: Sequence, Selection, and Iteration (or Recursion). The trouble I'm running into is with "selection".
never heard of that before (noob), what exactly does selection imply? :P
I suppose the simplest is to add a callstack and jump and return instructions. ... but is that the "clackerly" way to do it?? <-- that's my conundrum. :)
9:52 AM
Decisions. if/else, cond.
Conditional jumps, generally.
well, you can access all of the screen from within the function,
you can run python code from within the function via exec,
I was trying to get something like that with the Boolean-chaining of statements, but I did a poor job of it.
meh, i'm not too good with these things :P
also i just had an idea for a hash function o: o: o:
gonna use in my terragen because why not
But, I don't want to specify the whole of Python!
i guess that's a bit of a setback ^^'
10:00 AM
Hmm. I could maybe do something like MIIX or pdp-1 and have the function call save the return address into a jump instruction card. ... Hmmmmmmmm.
@luserdroog You're thinking about an advanced version when you don't even have submissions yet? (Which I think is a shame, the challenge is pretty nice, imo. I didn't read it properly before, but might work on an answer now that I did.) Also just extending to 2D regions doesn't sound different enough to me to justify a follow-up challenge. But how about a code-challenge for producing the minimal number of instructions for a given frame?
I've got an example of that somewhere. If you've never seen it, it's really wild.
This wouldn't have to be a challenge, maybe just a development of the format into something approaching useful. :)
oh okay
This wouldn't have to be a challenge, maybe just a development of the format into something approaching useful. :)
A: What are the uses of self modifying code?

luser droog1960s-era assembly languages used self-modifying code to implement function calls without a stack. Knuth, v1, p.182: MAX100 STJ EXIT ;Subroutine linkage ENT3 100 ;M1. Initialize JMP 2F 1H CMPA X,3 ;M3. Compare JGE *+3 2H ENT2 0,3 ;M4. Chang...

my connection is terrible tonight.
timeout retry/cancel
makes jack dull boy
Oh. I see. If I actually type the same thing three times, it eliminates the dupes. :/
i'd really like to submit a challenge but i can't think of anything besides the mmorpg koth and it's a massive project to take on
10:06 AM
shoulda used shift-enter.
@luserdroog So can I assume that the output will always be 20x20, or do I have to infer the dimensions from list of instructions?
Your implementation may choose whatever size, minimum 20x20. The examples don't even push that boundary.
okay, I'll probably give it a try tonight... I have an idea for how to do the boolean function in Mathematica, but the string handling is probably going to kill my score
maybe ruby would be better... I'll see when I get down to it
awesome. I've been pondering how to do it in C.
There's an ioccc program that draws in X11 using just send().
my C obfuscation skills are so far from paying the ioccc any attention, to be honest
10:20 AM
Understood. But if you find one that does something you're interested in, ....
There is a certain joy in the teasing-apart process.
Particularly if you've written something similar.
Now I loot it for ideas.
There are also some fascinating answers on SO: stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/ioccc
For golfing, though, the bottleneck is the GUI interface. All those calls to build every little thing that makes up a window.
ah nice, didn't know about the tag
Here's the shortest window program I've written:
A: Hello World window

luser droogC+xcb+Cairo 2540 (82 lines) Not exactly short. :) This is literally the PNG hello world from the Cairo docs, with just enough xcb to open a window and find the parameters needed to register the window with Cairo. //xcr.c //cc -o xcr $(pkg-config --cflags --libs cairo xcb xcb-icccm) xcr.c -lcair...

... damned connexion.
11:08 AM
theoretical reverse-stack-based lisp-like language might become ena
pretty okay for golfing
Graham's number:
=|G_.64{k.3^.3 1.3 .4
only because it has k and _ built in, but whatever :P
3 hours later…
2:01 PM
When did there start being a notification for the Suggested Edits review queue? Is that new? I've never seen it before.
2:13 PM
Should we vote to close bad posts? Or just ones that don't fit on the site?
For reasons other than being bad, I mean
As in? Examples?
sorry to interrupt, but I was wondering whether to close codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/12188/12205 as being not having an objective winning criterion
This doesn't seem like a great challenge (I think it could be modified to be good, maybe, but it isn't now) but now that the OP has specified a win condition I don't think it's rule-breaking. Unless I've forgotten something.
@ace I'm assuming the [puzzle] tag implies "first correct answer," but meh
@Doorknob If that's true it should be in the tag wiki.
2:23 PM
Yes. And I thought about this question because the one that undergroundmonorail linked to is very similar
The question I'm talking about now has two win conditions, if that's the case, because it now has and .
Yes, I tagged it as puzzle. If puzzle implies first answer perhaps we should let the OP decide?
Related but not very helpful: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/1588/12205
Yay, finally managed to solve a code golf challenge purely in regex!
A: Recursive acronyms

m.buettnerRegex, .NET flavour, 65 bytes (?i)(?<=^\w(?<c>\w)*) (\k<c>(?<-c>)\w+ ?|(?<w>\w+) ?)+$(?(c)(?!)) You can test it here. If the input is a recursive acronym, this will yield a match, and capturing group k will contain all function words. If it isn't, then there will be no match. This does preser...

@Doorknob the .NET-bug that prevented me from solving your building shadows challenge in regex is still not fixed :-/
2:46 PM
I've used this site for 99 consecutive days. hype hype hype hype hype hype hype hype
@undergroundmonorail the question you linked to is now closed as "general programming question"... but i really don't see how that's a general programming question...
Yeah, if it's going to be closed that really seems like the wrong reason.
I've voted for reopening
3:04 PM
@ace I did, too, now that it's specified as code golf.
subliminal christian messages on ppcg?
I thought he was referring to the Fish language
ha, didn't even know that existed, but apparently it's spelled ><>.^^
3:23 PM
@TheDoctor what do you mean by "Uhhhhhh, Whaaat???" in the comment here?
The question is not understandable
@TheDoctor So basically, add code in front of, in the try block, and/or at the end, such that it will print "You won!"
@TheDoctor what's not to understand? You're supposed to reach the outer catch by writing code inside the inner catch or outside of the outer block.
i dont like it
3:30 PM
3:48 PM
@Trimsty how's your progress on the terrain?
@m.buettner I got lazy and decided to wait for an answer to the SO question, gonna start working on it now :P
if i keep waiting i'll never make it
haha fair enough
now i just have to figure out how to vertex map a boolean 3D noise function and force it onto a given heightmap (true 3d, allows for overhangs/really steep cliffs/etc)
then i have to simulate erosion for a bit
3:57 PM
Why do you want 3D noise if you're going with height-map terrain anyway?
i'm not, actually, the heightmap forcing is so that it's not like aerated chocolate
I'd do midpoint displacement but i have no idea how to render that consistently and with good block tiling
right... I'm not entirely sure what you're doing but it sounds like a fun hybrid
i'm not sure either ;333
the trick with voxel-based terrain is usually to have a noise function where positive corresponds to solid and negative to air... then you can just start with the function f(x,y,z) = -z to get a solid boundary at z = 0 (rock below)... then you distort that with whatever height map function you want, plus noise plus warping plus whatever... to render it, use marching cubes
4:02 PM
rendering stuff like that is horribly complicated though, because you need some form of paging algorithm
maybe i can midpoint-displace a previously rendered heightmap?
takes away my tiling worries
sure, I don't see why not
i could displace the midpoints with 3 noise maps similar to the base for all 3 axis
and also use a blurring function
so it's all smooth-like
thinks furiously
i've always loved multiplication matrices and image imaginary coordinate mapping and stuff like that to make it look more realistic
seeing the direct application to a 3D position map is exciting
Oh, nevermind, you saw it :P
okay wait
i can generate random chunks of noise and grow/pinch/displace them in a way that they shove each other around
and do some light erosion computation along the edges
canyons, mountain ranges and other things ahoy
realizes he just invented simulated tectonic plates
ohai @TheDoctor
4:17 PM
welcome to my sky!
xkcd reference
i'm in the shibe storage business ;333
4:18 PM
i like how a stackoverflow meta post asking about offensive content and including an example of it got locked because of the quoted content
and the post they quoted didn't get deleted
But... we have feelings too :'( — Doorknob 2 hours ago
Hey @ProgramFOX :D
4:24 PM
Hi all!
5:12 PM
so far i've written some lines of code
such progress
class terrainManager {
		terrainManager(int blockSize) {
			this.blockSize = blockSize;
			std::vector<int[blockSize][blockSize]> rmap;
			this.pointMap = rmap;
		void gen(int x, int y) {
		int blockSize const;
		auto pointMap;
probably gonna throw errors
woo, errors
i don't see any in there
but c++ always finds a way
C++... I like to call it... "The German among programming language."
is lisp lojban?
or clojure?
that's probably rather prolog?
5:16 PM
but seriously
clojure is best programming language
yay, itunes is playing my fav song
how nice of itunes
5:33 PM
I have an idea for a 3d KoTH
I'm going to try to get a discussion going on meta about . I have two answers written up in different tabs for this question, one containing a proposal for a "real" definition of a "puzzle" for this site and a seperate one detailing some options on how we could make the tag fit on this site. Is it kosher to post them separately or should I try to work them into a single answer?
hard to tell without reading your posts, but I'd say post them separately
Alright, going for it
@TheDoctor sweet! you're not the only one though. ;)
@undergroundmonorail if someone complains you can always merge them
5:36 PM
Very true.
@undergroundmonorail When posting them as two answers, people can vote separately on both answers, which is not possible if you put them in one answer.
Okay, posted them
so I just found this language called Agda
its interesting
OH oh oh
my terrain generator
the fun thing is, once you can actually view your terrain and get to half-decent state you'll spend a ridiculous amount of time exploring terrain instead of coding more :D
Does this look like it'll work?
class point {
		int x, y, z;
		point(int x, int y, int z) {
			this.x = x;
			this.y = y;
			this.z = z;
class terrainManager {
		terrainManager(int blockSize) {
			this.blockSize = blockSize;
			std::unordered_map<int[2], point[blockSize][blockSize]> rmap;
			this.pointMap = rmap;
		void gen(int x, int y) {
			int[2] id = [x, y];
			point[this.blockSize][this.blockSize] cblock;
			for(int y = 0; y < this.blockSize; y++) {
				for(int x = 0; x < this.blockSize; x++) {
just generates flat terrain for now
5:59 PM
ugh, lower-case class names
imma change that :P
isn't it int id[2]?
same for declaration of cblock
you've got some serious naming conflicts as well
parameters x and y, as well as local (iteration) variables
why did i do that...? xD
if it's int id[2], how do make an unordered_map with an array of 2 ints as key?
also, if your your point map is two dimensional, it's effectively a height map... so storing x and y doesn't really make sense... you might just as well have a 2D array of z-values. if you want voxel based terrain, then your map needs to be a 3D grid, with each voxel specifying if it's air or rock (and maybe some meta information). in any case, storing points in the grid is a bit pointless, because the coordinates are implied by the position of the current cell
@Trimsty no I think that part remains int[2]
@m.buettner: the 2D mappiness is just so i know which points to connect. There's nothing stopping pointMap[origin][0][0] from having a higher X than pointMap[origin][1][0]; that's why Point also specifies x and y.
strange, but yeah, i'm new to this 3D stuff :P
6:06 PM
isn't that.... weird? :D
I don't know, you probably have something in mind ^^
i'm just creating a 3D model of the surface is all
probably should've (why is autocorrect highlighting that) said verts instead of points :P
oh okay, well if your surface can be parameterised by a square grid (but is actually arbitrarily curved) then that kinda makes sense
yay! ;D
i'm also a memory efficiency geek
I'm a bit scared of doing hydraulic erosion on this map
perhaps i shouldn't even be bothering with the 64x64x64 block format?
wb @TheDoctor :3
hydraulic erosion sounds horrible for 3D terrain :D ... if you get to work I'd be interested in how, though ^^
6:14 PM
i could generalize the points and simulate rigid body physics on edges and force volume preserves, but then it'd be just a bunch of big blobs of blue jelly
anyone ever use Processing?
i've heard a lot of hype about it but don't have much experience
it's Java based...
but its cooler than java
6:16 PM
like clojure? xD
i dont know
i was about to switch to another song
but then shuffle brought it up for me
y u psychic itunes
Spotify ruolezz
6:18 PM
spotify is racist
they don't let me use it because of where i live
(same with 000webhost)
legal issues with record distribution under 60s media law i think
i didn't get an immediate region block message, so that's good
it has monstercat! YEEEAAAH
too bad i already downloaded the entire monstercat label
hi @JoeZ. :D
as for 000webhost, I can't imagine using a free web host with that name
(although I have known people who have, and I'm a bit of a hypocrite, I used one called "0000free" in the past)
6:26 PM
so instead, i smuggled a vps from a shady man named Gertrude ;.;
lol, I just bought one from OVH
$2.99/month for 10 GB disk space
and, uh
that's pretty decent
ovh.com/ca/en/vps/vps-classic.xml <- here, I'll just link you
6:27 PM
i've got an openvz one with supposedly 4gb ram, 250gb space and a gbps uplink
for me it's $3.38 since they charge sales tax here in Canada, but that's alright
250 GB space?
how much are you paying for it?
quite a bit more expensive than those though
$20/mo iirc
you could get a dedi with that sort of mon--oh
yeah, can't do dedi for that
there is a place actually,
Hey, JOe
6:29 PM
that sells 4gb dedis for $25
although OVH does have dedicated servers for $59.99/month
hey, doctor
but they're ALWAYS out of stock
Still stuck on 17 of Quetzalcoatl
haha, so is everyone it seems
i'm stuck on 4
6:30 PM
thank god too, since I'm not done 19 yet
(making it, that is)
also, why are none of you on IRC anymore :<
u haz irc channel?
irc.badnik.net #toqtz
I was on other thingses
I'm stuck on 5. I think I know what the answer is supposed to be, I just don't know how to find it...
6:31 PM
okay, done with work... now I'm gonna give that steampunk challenge a go and then I'll get back to working on the terrain
what is this 'work' of which you speak
let's not talk about such pesky things in this beautiful chat room
oh... hey... this isnt IRC!
Trimsty, you haven't joined the channel yet...?
you can STAR!
6:35 PM
@JoeZ. badnik scares me ;_; gimme a min :P
I've always wanted to try my hand at making an web-based chat program
they're not very hard, my friend made one for a web game in a few hours
it would take me at least a day ;_;
I'm trying to do something in Flask at the moment
just use irc and make a frontend for it
Nah, there's no fun in that. Also, you can't implement stuff like starring messages.
6:36 PM
or just copy SE's chat
I don't think they're open-source :P
or get something from github
could, but probably doesn't exist
OMG java is so slow
or maybe its Safari..
@TheDoctor Java has a pretty good code speed to development time ratio
6:38 PM
not really.
but i'm trying to run a browser applet
not develop
@JoeZ. i'm on the irc now ;3
saw you
1 hour later…
7:50 PM
ls -l
okay, steampunk challenge sorted... that took longer than expected.
it's fun though, I can really recommend giving it a try :)
8:31 PM
/me thinks it's quiet in here
I've rewritten a fair bit of my KotH draft and dropped the entire multiple-bots-communicating component in order to simplify it. There are still things that need to be decided (and polished), and I'd be happy about all kinds of feedback, so if you can be bothered to fight your way through that wall-of-text...
A: Proposed Question Sandbox - Mark XIII

m.buettnerConquer the Solar System king-of-the-hill Here is an outline for a strategical King-of-the-Hill challenge which is loosely based on Risk (loosely enough so as not to preclude a future Classic Risk KotH). It is far from complete, but I'm posting it here to gather feedback from the community to ...

oh, not IRC
8:54 PM
hey guys
if there's a real offensive comment on a deleted post (deleted as in high-rep users can still see) should a flag it for mod attention?
*really offensive; *should I flag it
the "as***le" comment on the 1337-challenge?
I already flagged it
yeah, okay thanks
that's still a valid question though, what's @Doorknob's opinion here?
also, you know you can edit your chat messages, by pressing up (for 2 minutes or so)
8:59 PM
wow, didn't know that, thanks a lot (testing)
hi ace. you changed your avatar
Yes @TheDoctor. In fact I've changed it for half a month now
It's the same rabbit though, just different perspective
which 1337 challenge?
9:06 PM
some guy posted a challenge to transliterate leet-speak
but the challenge had a few problems (mainly being underspecified and lacking a winning criterion)... people pointed that out and he got a downvote or two, and couldn't deal with it and started to flame people... doesn't matter...
yay, my koth proposal got an upvote, that's new! :D
probably me
sweet, thanks!
any comments?
Yeah, I'll look at those comments on the 1337 post when I get home (on mobile now).
pls link to this post... i cant find it
wait, wrong post
9:20 PM
yeah... thats try.catch
I switched to the wrong tab, sorry
9:59 PM
hmm, looks like deleted questions no longer show up on the site portal
or have they never?
@JoeZ. Why would deleted questions show up on the front page?
for high-rep users, I dunno
deleted answers show up on the questions page, I know that much
I must have gotten it confused for something else
10:11 PM
@m.buettner I've contacted this user privately; thanks for bringing it up!
1 hour later…
11:30 PM

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