Software Recommendations - 2014-02-14 (page 1 of 3)

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12:03 AM

0

Q: Can we agree on a tagging guide?

I think we have three sets of tags on SR: (Please note that I don’t have good headlines for describing these groups as I’m not a native speaker; I hope the example tags make it clear, and please suggest better terms for describing them.) Tags describing which attributes the software MUST have....

discussion tags

12:47 AM

@kalina =:-0

1 hour later…

1:59 AM

@Pops Around?

-1

Q: Why this question was not clear?

Free secure wipe software for Windows that processes free space Izzy understood perfectly what I wrote. I think that users which don't know about safe erase obviously can't understand, but "safe erase"is really really clear. As safe erasing free space. What do you think about?

Don't delete your closed questions just to re-ask them. — Seth 10 secs ago

Journeyman Geek

on the contrary, please do so, then you et question banned.

good point, actually.

But I don't think we have question bans here.

@Seth heh

2:56 AM

Alright, this Sam guy is starting to get on my nerves.

3:08 AM

I'm looking for best games, not every possible games. — MariuszS Feb 10 at 18:27

Journeyman Geek

@Seth: its automatic.

@JourneymanGeek not on sites it isn't enabled on

Journeyman Geek

(and yeah, Sam is getting on my nerves too. And gets a lot of downvotes :/)

is funny, I closed that question and now I'm closing it again...

3:24 AM

0

Q: Should we get early the Question quality bans?

While we are still in private beta, we are trying to teach some users the ropes and trying to make their questions answerable and in good shape for the rest of the world... well, that is causing certain problems that we may need to escalate the actions when users doesn't try to follow the rules. ...

discussion question-quality

@StackExchange +1

Journeyman Geek

At least he's stopped psyco-text spamming

didn't you read his answer in animuson question?

@Seth Let's see, who's asking... oh. @Seth. That can't be good. (Okay, but seriously, I'm here now, what's up?)

2

@Pops Yes, sorry. I'm known for bugging all the mods ;P

@Pops Check my flag here: softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/questions/1082/…

3:36 AM

Okay. Going to leave a comment.

thanks

4:02 AM

best comment.. ever?

4:44 AM

@JourneymanGeek what happened with Portia in RA? o.O

Journeyman Geek

4:55 AM

@MichaelFrank: ~~Portia is a known trollish kid~~ I suspect portia is <===. Keeps using my real name (its open knowledge). I do believe he's opening up sock-puppet accounts to ban evade.

Ahh, that's good to know.

Journeyman Geek

@MichaelFrank: He's also harassed me elsewhere, so ... I'm the tiniest bit harsher than usual

Well fair enough, I wouldn't have put up with his carry on for much longer last night.

Journeyman Geek

On the other hand, I don't really want drama. However, if he accuses me of shit, he should back it up ;p

(cause flagging me would either end up in a temporary suspension I can live with, or having another sock pupped punted)

Yeah, he's annoying. Also a help vampire of the worst sort

4 hours later…

8:31 AM

@Braiam paranoia is not a mental disorder? is it? *shifty eyes*

Journeyman Geek

Only if they are really out to get you

shouldn't that be if they're not really out to get you?

Journeyman Geek

THATS WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK

no:(

you all have to be really nice to me today

since it's my 21st birthday

and it's valentines day, and I'm single

and... because I'm me, so you should just be nice anyway :p

Journeyman Geek

Oh, the first, fine.

8:35 AM

I'm going to have a drama free day by completely ignoring the bridge

Journeyman Geek

The second, meh ;p

Very good idea!

and all I want for Vday... is my goddamned android 4.4 update ;p

I have that already :p

...on my nexus 7

Journeyman Geek

yeah, I have a moto G

it should be updated any time now

still waiting for it for my htc one

I'm sure they said end of January

Journeyman Geek

HTC is not the best with updates

8:38 AM

yeah tell me about it

Journeyman Geek

my one V NEVER got updated. I got a 4.2 rim for it for now

Pity, their hardware is usually so damned sexy.

htc one is oh so sexy

when something just feels nice to hold, even if you're not using it, you know you're on to a winner

Journeyman Geek

lol. thats how I feel about the Moto G

nexus 7 2013 is pretty nice just to hold too

although I bought it and don't really have a use for it

so I use it as my bedside media player

it does make a pretty good bedside media player

2 hours later…

10:20 AM

0

Q: What's the tradeoff in the usage of "too broad" and closing interesting and detailed questions?

Look at this question. It was closed as too broad. But it's very clear and specific. Can you kindly list the pros and cons of closing question like the one below? Free secure wipe software for Windows that processes free space The question is: Why is beneficial for this community to deny peopl...

I saw this message in the side bar, I knew who posted it before I even looked in here

it's really getting that obvious

He's determined

-1

Q: Closing question here on meta is a good stuff?

I see some contro: it limits strongly the freedom of expression it limits the possibility of changement if you have ideas very different from the others you immediately get silenced I would raise a lot the votes needed to close one question on meta, the time before closing. What do you thi...

Sam, I implore you to put more consideration into your posts on meta - you are responsible for 10 out of 50 questions on the first page of questions on meta and all 10 questions seem to state pretty much the same thing. There is no need to raise this volume of questions. Please read what is meta and how does it work? as your understanding of what meta is about is different from what meta actually is. — Flyk 1 min ago

I don't want drama on my birthday, somebody else is going to have to deal with him

Oh, happy birthday !

10:37 AM

@kalina chat.meta.stackoverflow.com/rooms/693/…

Happy birthday!

-1

Q: What about a reputation detraction if someone votes to close a question and it is reopened?

People are often too hurried to downvote or voting for close. The quality is something really different in my humble opinion. If someone votes for closing a question without giving a comment I would detract some points from his reputation. But if the question is reopened I would detract many poi...

I wish I could say that I was the one downvoting all of these questions

but I'm not

it's obvious he's troubled with the way the system works

I do not wish to add to his anguish

however he needs to read what people are saying to him

-1

Q: What about a reputation detraction if someone votes to close a question and it is reopened?

People are often too hurried to downvote or voting for close. The quality is something really different in my humble opinion. If someone votes for closing a question without giving a comment I would detract some points from his reputation. But if the question is reopened I would detract many poi...

10:56 AM

0

Q: Can we have a migrate to meta.SE off-topic close reason

This question seems to request a general SE feature and not just one for SR. Can we have a new off-topic close reason: This question belongs on another site in the Stack Exchange network - meta.stackoverflow.com

feature-request close-reasons migration

Journeyman Geek

@kalina: I'd reply if I could work out a polite way of telling him he obviously has no idea what he's talking about

What needs to be said is that he hasn't learned how things work well enough just yet, and he should sit back and observe for a while

11:12 AM

oh good, I looked away for 60 seconds and we don't have two new meta posts

I think the Tim Post's Aka ground rules meta post should also talk about game, library, OS, ... recommendations (allowed or not, but it should be clearly write).

Is there a delay for post editing on the chatroom?

Same rate limiting as posting new messages

Less than three minutes :o

Oh you meant the time limit after which editing is disabled?

Yes

11:24 AM

Arg, damn why can't Sam understand.

Journeyman Geek

@Oxinabox: eh, he's singlehandedly exasperating half the channel ;p

and the other half is inactive!

Perhaps he is very young? But I get the impression he is at uni, since he refused to his studies in psycology... but doesn't refer to his psycology degree

Journeyman Geek

hm

wait. one rec an answer, right?

0

Q: How would you deal with emotions of meta / moderator when they feel criticized?

This question was close as too broad: Free secure wipe software for Windows that processes free space Oxinabox says: This question seems, narrow enough. @Sam: I suspect you may be getting unintentional (subconscious) bias against you because of your behaviour, both in comments, in other questio...

Again...

11:27 AM

I think he's still question banned on MSO

JourneyMan: The one rec per answer is stalled in debate

I think we need outside help. Get someone from SE Staff to tell use which should be the standard.

It isn't voilent debate is it good and positive and bothsides make good points

It seems that human psycology's study make people unable to have normal relations...

Do you think we should invite him onto chat?

On the one hand it is a place that I can stand and wave my hands in the air (though the lightly wafting steam the it coming out my ears.
On the other hand it would save Meta being filled with his questions

Journeyman Geek

lol

not today!

Its @kalina's birthday, let her have some peace ;p

It will be hard for me to get while you're essentially spamming the site with the same question over and over again. As I said, if you read through how you're supposed to use meta, re-evaluate your existing posts (and probably remove some of them since you've asked about the same question multiple times) and then write one well worded, clear and concise post without trying to psychoanalyse the situation I will provide my support to try and help people understand what your issues are. — Flyk 2 mins ago

You need to understand that you're essentially coming here questioning why Stack Exchange works the way it does, stating that it's all wrong, quoting random articles on Wikipedia and other places about psychology, without considering that we have these rules in place because of many years of experience with the Stack Exchange way of doing things. Every time you have a question about why we do something, it would be well worth checking out meta.stackoverflow.com to see if it has already been discussed in the past - you will find LOTS of posts on there that cover the questions that you have. — Flyk 51 secs ago

Rather than asking more questions on meta, I would suggest that you come to the Software Recommendations chat room so that we can discuss this a bit more in depth, without comment length restrictions and without you asking more meta questions, which will inevitably get downvoted due to the number of questions you've asked about the same topic recently. I think this would be the best way for everybody to understand each other. — Flyk 10 secs ago

somebody should nominate me for pro temp for all of my friendly and helpfulness cough

so it can get downvoted into oblivion

11:47 AM

I regret telling him he may be sufferign unintentiona bias. So much regret.

I should have just voted to reopened and said nothing.

Journeyman Geek

lol

though I suspect his meta post on "Wah wah, people change there minds as to wheter this was worth closing" would still occur

Journeyman Geek

I really do wish he said what didn't work. This is the sorta thing I came across in one of my majors, and I have a fair amount of interest in things like that ;p

mhmm, it is actually a pretty interesting question and a kinda good idea, passivly zeroing/noising the empty space

Journeyman Geek

Oh, the tricky thing is the lack of low level access in windows

You're in effect using a hack with the defragmentation API to do it

11:53 AM

Cool as.

I can't afford to stay awake all night dealing with someone being wrong on the internet

Journeyman Geek

nor can I ;p

my phone is buzzing so much

I think I'm just going to place it on my lap for a bit

and improve my overall mood

Journeyman Geek

lol

that's one thing the stack exchange app is good for

when you're as active as I am at times, it just buzzes constantly

Journeyman Geek

I find that the notifications can occationally be really late tho

11:56 AM

I don't have that issue

the issue I have is that I can't clear them on the site

I'm so considering writing "The Quick and Dirty Guide to Using Stack Exchange" on MSO

detailing all of the important posts that everybody should read before they even sign up

but it will either get upvoted through the stratosphere or downvoted to oblivion

and I hate getting downvoted

and it's a lot of effort for this one guy that won't even read my comments

12:12 PM

Got to learn not to care about downvotes.

Cos downvotes barely touch your rep.

(It is hard, I know)

... I whent to make some quick dinner, expecting like 10 notifactions from him while i was gone, but none. It is over. We are safe

Downvotes to me mean that I've done something that somebody doesn't like

which is essentially what they mean

I don't take them personally, but the idea I've done something wrong compels me to fix it

I only have one negatively voted post on the network and that's on a per-site meta

excluding the 2-3 that I have on softwarerecs meta

Negitively Scored or negitively overall?

primarily because I'm leaving those in place until we come out of beta

negative overall

all of my posts on public sites are positively scored overall except one per site meta post on arqade

which I can't remove because shog posted an answer on it

I'm one of those most downvoted users on Arqade

it just so happens I've also got a lot of upvotes

once a post gets <0 though, I normally delete it

@kalina Exactly, and Sam is focusing on the downvote, not on the reason (and it's why I vote to leave some of these question closed : no improvement since he posts it and the questions was closed)

I'm fine with leaving most of these questions closed

I would actually request he deletes half of these meta posts as well

more than 1/5th of the front page of meta is him complaining about this one question atm

12:26 PM

Are there any mods yet?

no

I think it sends the wrong message to get a mod to delete them this soon after he's opened them anyway

he needs to voluntarily remove them

and understand why

otherwise the problem isn't resolved

12:37 PM

And mod's election won't be planed before a week, won't it ?

it's not really an election

it's more a... "we've taken your suggestions and made our own choices based on who we think is best"

12:53 PM

Is StackExchange's elections the same?

1:07 PM

no, once a site is out of beta it's a democratic election process

DanteTheEgregore

1:31 PM

softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/tags/bukkit-plugin/info

I'm rather curious where they got that description and who approved it.

Seems like accurate information to me

@DanteTheEgregore softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/posts/1070/revisions

@DanteTheEgregore softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/907

DanteTheEgregore

I saw.

Perhaps just the same way normal mods do is concerning to me and I'm being too technical as it's not a client-side framework.

And the tag wiki seems to be implying it is.

Feel free to improve it if you feel it needs it

It's freely editable

1:49 PM

kalina +1

2:23 PM

Hi guys

hi Sam

I'm Flyk on the site btw

in case the pink angel didn't give it away

@DanteTheEgregore softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/907

54 mins ago, by kalina

@DanteTheEgregore http://softwarerecs.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/907

@kalina I'm a time traveler...

LIES

Journeyman Geek

2:32 PM

Oh hello

Oh hello

ok, brb

boss mode

Hi Flyk

@Seth I would like to answer this points.

"this Sam guy is starting to get on my nerves."

Journeyman Geek
(and yeah, Sam is getting on my nerves too. And gets a lot of downvotes :/)

Journeyman Geek

@Sam: well, you were, for a lot of the same reasons that we mentioned in the comments.

Let me say I'm not a good communicator

@Sam you are mistakingly how stuff works, we are a bunch of jackasses by default that likes to help people, and that's fine, that's how the system was intended to work. If you think you are arriving to a world filled with ponies and unicorns and painted in pink, there are that too but you have to deal with the trolls and spiders

2:38 PM

But also I've read many book about psychlogy and let me try do give my contribution to this section. I can imagine everyone's reaction when I say: "I've read many book about psychlogy"

Journeyman Geek

@Sam: problem is really, that thats irrelevant outside psycology.se

give me just some seconds to answer this point: "this Sam guy is starting to get on my nerves"

no.. wait.. let me explain. Listen me just for a minute.

A famous psichologian wrote a book about the difficulty of changing the other's people ideas

His name is Dale Carnegie

Just other seconds of your attenction

Human brain is very easy to understand. We all behave in the same way. I'm not going to take a lesson of psychology, but is important to understand that criticizing people often tend to this kind of result: "Sam is getting on my nerves too"

@Sam citing psychology books is not gonna help anyone. also if you really have read any of those books you will notice that what they said is from experience and observation of the communities and individuals. You can't just walz in saying that we are wrong and you are right and use BS rhetoric as your weapon

without even trying to understand us...

Journeyman Geek

@Sam: Its also important to understand whether what you're doing is actually working

You can influence people better by trying to understand their point of view and carefully nudging them , rather than attempting the hit them with the rolled up newspaper called your view.

of course.. but I'm askying you to take in consideration that the reason because I'm getting on the nerves is not because of what I'm saying but because of the way I'm doing

How to Win Friends and Influence People

How to Win Friends and Influence People is one of the first best-selling self-help books ever published. Written by Dale Carnegie and first published in 1936, it has sold 15 million copies world-wide. Leon Shimkin of the publishing firm Simon & Schuster took one of the 14-week courses given by Carnegie in 1934. Shimkin persuaded Carnegie to let a stenographer take notes from the course to be revised for publication. In 1981, a new revised edition containing updated language and anecdotes was released. The revised edition reduced the number of sections from 6 to 4, eliminating sectio...

This is not my opinion. This is well documented.

Fundamental Techniques in Handling People[edit]
Don't criticize, condemn, or complain.
Give honest and sincere appreciation.
Arouse in the other person an eager want.

Now.. for sure I can be wrong

and I'm absolutely not pretending I'm right

2:45 PM

@Sam the thing is, and we may all be at fault here for being stubborn, both you and everybody else

But I'm askyng you to make an effort

but what we say is based on years of experience with the way the Stack Exchange system works

Journeyman Geek

@Sam: As are people in general here.

@JourneymanGeek "You can influence people better by trying to understand their point of view and carefully nudging them , rather than attempting the hit them with the rolled up newspaper called your view." - I totally agree on that

between us (@Braiam, @JourneymanGeek and I, let alone the others that have responded to you) we have like a decade of experience with the Stack Exchange engine

2:46 PM

but you should do the same.. try to understand my point of view

@Sam I agree with this as well

listen me when I try to cite autorathive people..

The people you're citing have no authority here, nor do they have experience with Stack Exchange

they're just words on a page that you're quoting

I'm not saying I disagree with the fundamentals behind what you're trying to say

However the way that you come across is that the people you're quoting are right and that we should change, even though we're all well versed in how Stack Exchange works and we know the limitations of the system

The problem is, by annoying these people you're changing your issue from "not quite understanding how to write a high quality question" to "fighting against the system"

and if you fight against the system, the system fights back

The choice to close any of your questions was not and cannot be made by one person (unless that person has a diamond at the end of their name)

The choices are made by five people agreeing with each other

"but what we say is based on years of experience with the way the Stack Exchange system works" -> wait... let's speak about this... I've been contributing on Stack Overflow for a long time and people were no so addicted in closing answer. We can check my questions one by one.
I can also tell that very often the same question can became ok or closed. I mean just the same identical question..
But my impression is that the percentage of closed question is growing not fore reasons bound to real quality, but because people tries to do their best, but not always this happens in the best way..

And I'm speaking from extensive experience, I've fought against the system and lost, multiple times

2:50 PM

@Sam THIS IS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG!

You will not win against community consensus

here, the authoritative ones are the ones that have more experience

not some guy that sit in an office studying humans in personal

Journeyman Geek

@Sam: I have ~60K rep on SU, and I've had questions closed

@Sam I can see that you've been a member of Stack Overflow for 4 years

@kalina also agree on this "if you fight against the system, the system fights back"

2:52 PM

we have to deal with way more people a day that any of those guys in their lives

I've been a member on the Stack Exchange member for two years, but I've been active on multiple sites, in multiple capacities

@kalina yes, it's what Dale Carnegie is saying...

> member on the Stack Exchange member

say whaaat

I have helped create policies, I have helped change policies, I review, I flag, I post on multiple sites, I have reputation on like 15 different sites

@3ventic English is obviously not his first language, don't turn this into pedantically picking out his issues with communication

That is part of the problem

Journeyman Geek

@kalina: actually, you said that ;p

2:53 PM

Oh, I just popped in without context.

I'll be going now

@JourneymanGeek said what?

Journeyman Geek

@kalina ^^^

INTERESTING

@Sam bottom up, rubbing in our face your superior knowledge about psychology is doing totally the contrary those books say

well, I don't disclose my nationality

2:54 PM

(and yes, I have them all and more)

@3ventic second member was obviously meant to be network

actually I have a certain someone that tries to apply them to me :/

@Braiam no, wait.. here you are wrong. The two things are not one against the other. You can have some years of experience. Psychology has got century of studies on it's own. You can't deny it's principles.. you can say that there are many possibile interpretations but this doesn't change nothing. Psychology explains the reasons behind any human behaviour not how to handle a community. That's are very different concerns. Kalina is saying the same.

@Sam The second issue as I see it, is you're getting emotional about being downvoted and having your questions closed

While I'm more inclined to believe your last meta post or two may have had some bias involved when voting on them, your posts on the main site have been handled without emotion

there is certainly nothing personal going on there

@Braiam yes.. I told you I'm not a good communicator. And it's the reason why i go on nerves

2:57 PM

There is a mitigating circumstance in the middle of all of this as well, in that you broke the rules (you didn't know you were breaking the rules so I'm sure you'll be forgiven by everybody) by deleting a question so you could ask it again without the close votes and down votes

@kalina of course I'm emotional, like most of the guys doing hurried downvoting. We are human.

and that would have easily accounted for the downvotes on it when you re-asked it, and maybe even the close votes, as I said on meta

@Sam Downvotes do not mean "we don't like you"

Journeyman Geek

@Sam: You're assuming the downvotes are hurried or personal.

Downvotes on main mean "this post does not show research and/or is low quality"

ok, but would you like to speak about the "rules"?

2:59 PM

Downvotes on meta mean "I disagree with this post"

You have said: "I have helped create policies, I have helped change policies, I review, I flag, I post on multiple sites, I have reputation on like 15 different"

@Sam I have, on Arqade, on Ask Ubuntu, on Movies & TV, and many others

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