The Comms Room

it's "snowing" dust from somewhere in the main entrance hall. I mean great big clumps of it

also a student appears to be jogging laps of the entrance hall in her sports gear

I don't know why

I'd have said it was a little cold for what she's wearing too...

so yes, strange

Two dead projectors, same fault, within a few hours of each other. Sp00ky.

Tom O'Connor

1:18 PM

@tombull89 bought at the same time?

@TomO'Connor yes, all same batch. same week, same month, but within a few hours?

Tom O'Connor

plausible.

Commonly seen with disks.

Hmm now you have to press a button to answer a question

@Iain pointless click

bad ui

seems like it

1:22 PM

uh

Is that on SF?

yep

sigh

@Iain I don't see that on SF

I do

nor me

1:29 PM

@JennyD I was just checking I see it in Chrome 32 and FF26

edit: nope

@Iain I'm on FF26

FF26 and IE 11.

Edit: FF27

@Iain I got it on Chrome when I wasn't logged in, though

and I don't want to mix my accounts on Chrome so I'm not planning on logging in there.

mSO meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/219718/… but no answers from those that can provide them.

MDMarra

1:32 PM

This is true - I forgot that XP lets a limited user do that. If a user has saved stuff to C:\, then you'll need to hunt for files and/or bludgeon them with a laptop dock. — MDMarra 2 mins ago

What's the best dock model for user bludgeoning?

any idea?

something large and heavy

does it have to be a laptop dock and not, say, a dry dock?

MDMarra

Ha

faker

This is currently an a/b test which should finish soon (later today) - the full form will be back. — Oded 1 min ago

@faker thanks, I'll wait till later to answer more questions then.

a/b test explains a lot heh

1:42 PM

awful/broken?

@MDMarra Whatever's old, cheap, and unused. That way you can smack the user over the head until the dock breaks, and the bosses complain less than if you break one that's actually useful for docking a laptop.

serverfault.com/review/first-posts/110984 heh heh...nice "test" there

Holy shit, what a night

hell, what a month :(

This is a bad idea and the people behind it should feel bad :-( — RobM 48 secs ago

My wife had very bad food poisoning last night, and there hasn't been a day since I got back from winter shortage duty that everyone in my house has been healthy

1:51 PM

ugh sounds like a nightmare @Basil :-( hope you all pick up soon

@RobM Seconded.

Thanks folks

@NathanC I tried to review that, but couldn't find the option to dock the poster 50,000 rep. :D

yeah, I think the worst is over

of course, the worst coincided with a sequence of delicate, middle-of-the-night changes I was assigned

You ever tried to add something behind a firewall to the domain with gastro? I have.

@Basil ouch, sounds really horrible for all of you.

1:53 PM

port 463. Fucking port 463.

The fact that I am still excited to come into work is a sign that I'm doing the right job :)

brb, coffee. I mean... I have to tinkle.

Installing SCCM for a second time...the USMT and Windows PE take the longest :/

Actually, it's failing to download now....wut...

@basil sounds like the best thing about this month is that it's a short one for you guys.

@NathanC Heh. You need an acolyte. I got a guy who actually wanted to install SCCM in our new domain. So I let him. Awesomesauce.

@HopelessN00b I'm doing this mainly for my own "fun"...we're eventually switching to Forefront so I want to have everything set up and ready to go

Right now it keeps saying to "locate content" with every .cab it downloads...

so I get to babysit it

and it looks like mSE will finally become a thing

1:57 PM

@NathanC Yeah, I tried that with SCCM 2012 (R0/R1). Effing nightmare. I'm told that SCCM 2012 R2 actually installs properly, but still don't want to take the chance of going through that clusterfuck again.

So, happy to let someone else volunteer for it. :)

@iain I don't think oded agreed with me :-(

@Iain About time!

@HopelessN00b I was able to get it installed fine in a test lab. I then thought it was a great idea to join it to the main domain...SCCM didn't like me too much and exploded

@RobM perhaps not

So, wipe of the VM and reinstall later...

2:01 PM

@iain maybe so actually, lets hope

@NathanC My experience was even worse. Couldn't even get it to connect with WSUS in the test lab without a couple days of tracing obscure error messages and generally screaming at my PC like a crazy man. Got even worse once I got it out of the test lab.

Reading Tim's post it looks like it really will happen.. Hopefully the SO related noise going elsewhere will mean that people and in particular employees will get a chance to answer questions in a broader less SOcentric manner.

I think the IT department here is going to be giving me a compilation video of me swearing at SCCM 2012 for my birthday.

@HopelessN00b remember what I told you

@pauska About... WDT, SCCM 2012 R2, being caught on video smacking a monitor with my penis?

You'll have to be specific... I drink enough that I generally don't remember everything that people say to me yesterday, let alone further out.

2:10 PM

Just that I offered my help if you get lost or stuck

Oh, will do. But it looks like the 2012R2 install actually works... so far, the acolyte's had nothing but smooth sailing.

Tom O'Connor

@HopelessN00b Official vocab guidelines say we now have to say "willy" rather than penis.

Gah, consultants. Now I have to learn how name suffix routing works with forest trusts and a forest named the same as DNS root. I should have just become a hooker.

@TomO'Connor But.. but.. that's not his name!

Why must VMWare's built-in hardware monitor suck so bad?

Scott Pack

Pardon me gents. Time to get more coffee and urinate. Order is still up for grabs.

2:23 PM

@TheCleaner To allow for a lucrative market in creating one that's usable?

@HopelessN00b now now...no need to compare them to Microsoft. That's just mean.

@TheCleaner I actually hadn't thought about that, honestly. Now that I have, Windows 8 makes a lot more sense, though.

@HopelessN00b And yet they get lit up by 3rd party "lobbyists" every time they end up "fixing" things. Host firewall vendors got all pissy when Windows Firewall was added. Defender pissed off both McAfee and Symantec. etc.

@TheCleaner Oh, believe me, I know. I worked for Sophos.

@HopelessN00b and I'm curious how you will end up dealing with your name suffix routing issues with your fqdn conflicts. Did you guys come up with a solution?

2:31 PM

@TheCleaner Working on it right now. I bitched about it chat about 30 seconds after I realized that was the cause of some cross-forest authentication issues I noticed earlier in the week.

I'm hoping it's as simple as adding an exclusion for *.corp.comanyname.com in the companyname.com forest and enabling routing on corp.companyname.com ... but I have some reading and testing to do before I'll be sure.

You can't add exclusions for conflicts IIRC.

@TheCleaner Seems to have worked, actually. Well, it let me add the exclusion and enable routing, anyway. Guess I'm not yet sure if it actually works or not.

Q: How To: Software with Infrastructure As A Service

Oh...sorry I thought you meant override...not really exclude. So you only need a one way trust I guess?

---
Part of me wants to help this guy and part of me wants to simply VTC and come back to chat:

0

I have been pulling my hair for the past weeks about how to package a couple of services together. Say I would like to sell domains, so I have a domain reseller account from any of the providers. I would like to sell hosting with the domains but in the hosting service I would like to have a part...

I guess we could get by with a one-way... but we've got two ways in place as of now. In the long run, the mal-named forests will be depopulated and banished to /dev/null/, but it will be useful in the meantime to have one set of creds that work in all forests.

2:49 PM

Active Directory: "It's a jungle out there."

@TheCleaner What's the deal with that question? It looks like a "help me make a webhosting company out of a couple servers" question to me.

@HopelessN00b agreed. I started to feel bad for the guy for putting in the time and for his final thoughts about hoping it didn't get closed. It's subjective...but maybe it can be salvaged to be a decent subjective question. I was going to look at the canonicals and see if one fits as well.

its a bit broad

but god knows it beats "halp, can't find the 'any' key on me server"

MikeyB

@TheCleaner «You ended with "please don't close this question"» should be a valid close reason.

Oh god

"seems attractive because it's exciting from DevOps perspective. I was thinking of Having one or 2 Dedicated servers and put OpenStack on it so that, if needs be add more servers for scalability. I have absolutely no experience with Openstack but I manage a dozen of Ubuntu dedicated servers and almost same numbers of AWS EC2 instances on a daily basis."

@MikeyB lol

Q: How to bypass Forefront TMG firewall with Exchange Server Webservices

2:55 PM

0

We have an exchange server which uses Forefront TMG.I consumed the Exchange Web Service ,it worked fine in my one of the cloud server without Forefront TMG(setup in my local machine).But in my mechine with firewall, i cannot access the webservice "https://mail.domain.com/EWS/Exchange.asmx". I get...

exchange exchange-2010 ms-forefront

"I consumed the Exchange Web Service" -- how did it taste?

LOL I was just about to comment here about that question @RobM ...I get the ESL issue...but come on...

Not to sounds anti-ESL users, but the more questions I read on the main lately, the more I think there should be a "reading your question gave me a headache" VTC reason.

We really need a close reason for "I read your 'Question' and it made so little sense that I'm having a hard time choosing a close reason."

3

Q: share wireles connection from huawei b593 to my lan as backup

@ChrisS Yes, that. Even better than my idea, as I've been known to get headaches from the seeing the string cPanel in a question. Or wait, is that maybe a reason that my idea's better? :)

-1

I want to create a backup internet connection for my office and have bought a wireless 4g router Huawei b593. What I want to achieve is creating a "secondary" gateway address so that if the default dsl line goes down everyone could continue working just changing the gateway ip from 192.168.135.1...

cisco

Perhaps better "Everyone who reads this is now dumber for having read it."

3:03 PM

@ChrisS off topic because->other

On this question, could you do what he wanted by setting a route to the wireless router to a higher metric? Or would the clients keep trying the preferred route, even if the wired connection went down?

Ha...nice ad!

Trying to make me open an octect stream? Tsk, tsk. Probably safe, though.. what's it do? Provide naked celebrity pictures?

@TheCleaner @HopelessN00b yeah, it's not that we want to be mean about ESL problems, but yeah if a question is unreadable then why it is matters less than the fact that it is.

3:04 PM

@ChrisS agreed

Questions must demonstrate a minimal understanding of the problem being solved. Try including attempted solutions, why they didn't work, and the expected results. See How can I ask better questions on Server Fault? for further guidance.

-- is "why they didn't work" really applicable? I mean, if I were the OP I'd say "if I knew WHY it didn't work I wouldn't be posting the question!"

I suppose they mean the results of the failed solutions

@Dan Yes - s/why they didn't work, and the expected results/what you expected to happen and what happened instead/

@TheCleaner dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1240978/…

Chopper3

@Dan aghh!!! daily hate alert!!

@Chopper3 I know, it was what GIS came back with though

Chopper3

3:14 PM

::)

Of course someone's outraged. Ugh. We should keep outraging the easily offended until they stroke out and die.

[status-problem-solved]

@HopelessN00b If it makes you feel better, there's a high probability the whole outrage story is fabricated

@Dan I'm not outraged, I just get tired of crap like that ad.

Not much, because, I'm sure someone is outraged about it. You probably can't find anything that no one finds outrageous.

@JennyD Mmm, to be honest, I don't think being fat should really be a protected class

3:19 PM

@Dan I don't think that's what I said.

@JennyD Okay, what did you intend to say?

Or is it the cartoon alien and horrible font that you're tired of?

@Dan :) that's where I originally saw the ad...someone posted the article on FB...

@Dan Weight is not as easy as a function of calories in/calories out. Going to the gym is not a guaranteed way to lose weight. There are people who are very fit and still considered obese based on their weight. There are thin people who are very unhealthy. Using "weight" as a proxy measurement for health is worse than useless, and it has very real negative health outcomes for a lot of people.

@Dan Also the cartoon alien and the horrible font.

@JennyD I agree to a point - there are very few people who are "very fit and considered obese" - and those that are will be people like rugby players. I'm marginally overweight and reasonably fit, but that's because I eat too much. I could lose weight if I tried harder

I accept there are medical reasons for some, but for most it's a simple case of eating too much with a sedentary lifestyle

Agreed - Weight might be technically "wrong", but "worse than useless" is misleading.

3:23 PM

I also disagree that using weight is worse than useless - things like waist/height ratios may be better, but ultimately, we know that being overweight is bad for most people

@JennyD Not that you're wrong (or that there isn't plenty of scientific data to back up your position), but good luck with that fight. Easier to just accept that the majority of people are wrong, and on a probably-related-note, the majority of people are stupid.

@HopelessN00b But the majority of people aren't wrong

@Dan Since the BMI doesn't work for people outside average height, you will find people who are considered obese simply for being tall. Also, I personally know one woman who was in the "obese" range before having a breast reduction surgery, bringing her down to "overweight". She also regularly exercised 5 horses a day, including cleaning their stalls and other stable duties. She was by no means unfit.

@JennyD Since when are we talking about BMI?

@HopelessN00b That's why I'm tired instead of outraged.

3:25 PM

@Dan Since the 1950's, the average weight of lab animals has also increased by 50%. Is this because lab animals are also leading a sedentary lifestyle, and not hitting the gym enough? :/

@Dan It was implied in the "fit and considered obese" thing.

BMI is one simple (and flawed) method of looking at weight and height - it's designed for population data and not individuals, but it may serve as a simple indicator for the majority

@JennyD You can be obese without needing to look at BMI.

@Dan Yes - for population data it's useful, though it would be more so if it actually took height into account.

It is a lot more complicated than calories in vs exercise, regarldess of how inconvenient it is for everyone who thinks they can fix obesity by banning large sodas.

@JennyD It does take height into account - BMI is calculated using weight and height

3:27 PM

@Dan Yes - but it counts with a square instead of a cube. We're not two-dimensional, we're three-dimensional, so the measure is increasingly inaccurate the further away from the standard height you get.

@HopelessN00b More complicated yes, but for the majority reducing their intake and exercising will reduce their weight. It's primarily a societal problem

@JennyD Sorry for the tangent - Is is common for people in Sweden to speak English as well as you do?

@JennyD I agree, BMI is crap - but you chose BMI to discuss

All this talk about BMI and weight loss makes me think of the articles about the Biggest Loser winner last night that everyone is calling anorexic now.

I'm just plain Fat - All the various measurement methodologies and techniques agree.

3:28 PM

@Dan The point is that BMI is a statistical tool (originally used for demographic data about Dutch people, in the 19th century, IIRC), and doesn't actually have any relevance regarding a person's health, or fat content.

@HopelessN00b I never bloody said it did

The advert doesn't mention BMI, and I didn't bring it up

@Dan We can edit the chat history so that you did say it if you like =]

@ChrisS I think I'm better than most. Pretty much everyone will speak it well enough to be understood, but not this well. But I read a lot in English, and I used to have an English girlfriend. My accent is a lot worse since we broke up and I stopped going to England that frequently.

@Dan You said it could serve as a simple indicator for the majority... but that's not really the case. %body fat (which is easily approximated these days) would be the much better measurement to use.

@HopelessN00b BMI is an extremely simple weigh for people of average height to get an indicator

It's fine for that purpose

3:30 PM

@Dan I beg your pardon for bringing it up; it's that I see anti-fat sentiments as being tightly linked with over-reliance on BMI for individuals.

There ya go (yeah I drink the kool-aid...but it's cold and refreshing)

library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/08_03_How_Fit_Are_You.pdf

"How fit are you?" pdf

@TheCleaner do you do Crossfit?

@Dan If you say so. Not sure how it's simpler or better than % body fat, but... whatever.

@cole yes. Since 2008

@JennyD I see it as a realisation that our society isn't particularly healthy

3:31 PM

@TheCleaner thinking about it myself.

@HopelessN00b Because you need more than a set of scales to measure % body fat

@Dan We are in agreement there!

@Dan Not these days.

@cole Cole! Hey!

@JennyD hayyy!

Missed you :)

3:32 PM

Though mine do measure it, and in terms of "slightly overweight", all the indicators get me to about the same place (BMI, body fat index and waist/height)

@cole Likewise!

@cole I love it. But probably more so because of the daily variety and the friends I've gained doing it.

@TheCleaner I get bored at the gym - Crossfit seems to be a better option for me.

@HopelessN00b Okay, how about "most people don't have a body fat tool. And the domestic ones are probably not very accurate anyway (This bit is guesswork, but the one at the gym looked complex and expensive)

@Dan Is there even really a point to it? I mean, it isn't a strict indicator of health.

3:33 PM

@Tanner Which?

@Dan Body fat, BMI, yadda yadda...

@Tanner They're metrics

Come on guys, we're IT Professionals - you don't just pick one metric and focus on it soley

@cole well, it's never boring that's for sure. And to be honest, it hasn't gotten really any easier over the years.

btw - it's snowing like cray here

@Dan But what are they useful for? Certainly not predicting how long you'll live, or if she's a 8 out of 10 or a 9 out of 10...

3:34 PM

@cole I usually listen to a podcast while I'm at the gym. It's nice to get a chance to listen without having anything else require brain cycles.

@Tanner That's not entirely true - loads of stuff has been linked to being overweight

I lost 50 something pounds last year, now I've gained ~10 back that I seem to fluctuate between. First time around was just changing my eating habits - I think it's time for exercise now.

@Dan of course not...you pick one metric and 3 preconceived notions...then stir in a little IT denominational doctrine for good measure.

I do know I need to motivate my ass to lose weight.

@Dan Well, in talking about a general indicator that's good enough for most people, diagnostic-level accuracy isn't exactly needed. And considering that you can pick up a scale that measures it for $40, I don't see any reason to use BMI at all, let alone as some kind of gold-standard.

3:35 PM

that's the one weight related thing I'm clear about

@HopelessN00b It's only the gold standard between idiots

Dennis Kaarsemaker

@Dan I read that as "I'm the".... and thought I was reading a message from @wesley :)

@RobM I have no motivation to lose weight. I do, however have a motivation to go to the gym, which is that my riding trainer expressed the sentiment that I would be more likely to not fall off if I had any muscles at all in my back and abdomen...

@Dan True as that may be, it's also the most commonly used one, and one that's even commonly used by health care professionals... which is pretty appalling. Which seems to bring us full circle to me comment about the majority of people being wrong, and also stupid.

She didn't use those exact words, but it was clear anyway.

3:37 PM

I recently found out I have fat on my liver which looks like the early stages of an alcoholic's liver - but it's not from alcohol. So that's why I'm trying to lose more weight.

@HopelessN00b Which is true on pretty much any subject.

Also, tired of being sick and exhausted all the time - too.

@JennyD fair enough, and that makes a lot of sense. I, myself am overweight for sure. I make no bones about it

@RobM Can't remember if I said here, but my GPS watch reckons I've burnt some 60000 calories last year. Imagine how much weight I'd have put on if I didn't!

@Dan There's a correlation, sure, but I don't think it's strong enough to warrant obsessing over it, or even improving the scales. You're not going to look at your BMI and make a sudden realization that you've been working out the wrong way and eating all the wrong things this whole time, and conversely you don't need it realize you're a fat and unhealthy. I know I'm a fat fucker without checking my BMI.

3:38 PM

@JennyD Which makes it a great default starting position, for my money. :)

@Tanner I disagree - LOTS of people kid themselves that they're not "that" overweight, when in reality they are and need to do something about it

@Dan Hm, good point.

No shit - I stood on a random pair of scales while on site and decided I needed to lose 5KG ASAP. I've lost about 7kg since then

@Dan Meh. They only need to do something about it if they don't want to die or develop diabetes or whathaveyou.

@Dan But why do they need to? What is the actual problem?

3:40 PM

But then, again, still not worth obsessing over or improving the calculation. If somebody needs a doctor to point at a chart and say "Look, you're fat!" then the accuracy of the chart doesn't matter all that much.

@HopelessN00b Most would consider that a reasonable motivation - that and I really hated the realisation I'd actually gone from "podgy" to actually looking fat

@JennyD Because being overweight is unhealthy

@Dan Didn't we just finish covering the fact that most people are wrong? :)

@Dan See above, re. weight not being a good proxy for health.

@JennyD Jesus Christ, Jenny

@Dan Was he overweight too? confused

3:41 PM

If you really think there's no correlation to weight, being overweight and health then perhaps you should be researching in medicine

@Dan It depends, actually. On the degree of excess weight, and other underlying factors, like the person's normal blood pressure, cardiac health and metabolic rate, for a few factors.

@Dan Actually there is already research showing that being somewhat overweight is healthier than being equally underweight.

Okay, I'm out because you're both being silly and foolish now

Maybe we should drop all this bullshit and go back to talking about IT and other bullshit...

@Tanner lolz

so

we are getting a snow douche right now

3:43 PM

@cole snow coming from below?

upside down douching

@JennyD And I'm sure a healthy in-between weight that most should be aiming for. Getting hit by a car is probably better than being hit by a train, but staying on the pavement is even better

I really have no idea what points you're trying to prove

We've gotten so little snow this year there's concerns about how the dam is going to run this summer. (Which has a large impact on the economy here, since our PUD is a huge company and we sell a lot of power to California...)

@Dan I have stated the point repeatedly - that weight is not a good proxy measurement for health. I could add that what is considered a normal healthy weight has changed a lot in the past few decades and that there is research showing that what is now considered overweight may in fact not be. This in no way invalidates that most people in our society would benefit from getting more exercise - whether or not they lose weight in the process.

@JennyD Weight alone is not an indicator of anything - but weight when taking into account body fat, height and waist is definitely important

3:46 PM

I'm not saying that you are wrong to want to lose weight. I'm just saying that our society's tendency to conflate weight with health is wrong and it is damaging to actual people and it makes me tired.

@dan makes a fair point. It's like the people who tell themselves, and you, "a glass of wine a day is good for you" while drinking a bottle and a half of it a day.

@JennyD I think we all know a 'fat' person when we see them or ourselves. I know my belly has too much fat on it, but I'll save you the horror of proving it. I also know that it's a bad thing, and the only way to reduce that would be to reduce my weight

Which is why people need to do more cardio and the like - no amount of situps is going to help me there

And yes its possible to be healthy and 'overweight'. In fact I was when I did judo semi-professionally.

@RobM But then I'd argue you simply weren't overweight

Just like the England Rugby team aren't overweight

@Dan But none of those say anything about actual health - they are proxy measurements and may or may not be good ones. I would prefer a focus on how healthy people actually are, e.g. their bloodwork stats, if they can walk up stairs without getting out of breath, etc. A focus on that would be much more useful and probably work better, too.

3:48 PM

User sent an email asking where spell check is... Would it be inappropriate to respond with a Google link?

@dan yep, agreed. I wasn't then. I am now but I wasn't then.

@JennyD I get out of breathe when walking up stairs, but I can run 10 miles. You have to have metrics somewhere, and they won't all agree

@Dan I don't say anything about whether you're fat or not. I'm not saying that people are not fat. I am saying that having this idea that exercise and fatness are mutually exclusive is wrong and is damaging.

"Healthy" is too broad, you have to focus at some point

@RobM I don't see the problem with that. My mental health might even require me to drink a fifth and a half of scotch a day. Well, at least a fifth. I'm willing to admit that the extra half-a-fifth is mostly for my amusement.

3:49 PM

@JennyD It's not that wrong, though is it

If you're too fat, you should exercise and eat less - it really is that simple unless you have an underlying medical condition

@Dan And what if they do exercise and do not overeat and are still fat? Which is something that actually happens to actual people.

@JennyD Yes, that's me

@HopelessN00b ;-)

I'm still fat because I eat too much - I burn ~1000 calories each time I run, but my weight has been static

Until I stood on those scales, and started eating better

@JennyD my girlfriend has a hard time because of her thyroid

3:51 PM

@Tanner Maybe. The important thing to remember is that it would be inappropriate (and probably a firing-offense) to trick the user into shocking themselves with the computer PSU.

@Dan So. Someone that is fat, and does exercise, and does not overeat, but still is fat.... What should they do then?

@JennyD Speak to their doctor

@Dan Who will, like you, tell them to eat less and exercise more. Because a lot of doctors too believe that if people follow that advice it will always result in a weight loss. Which is not true.

@Dan And what useful advice do you imagine the doctor will have?

@JennyD That's quite a presumption

3:53 PM

@Dan my girlfriend has gone through the same thing @JennyD is describing

@Dan Meh, I know people in that spot. And that's exactly what the doctor did say.

@Dan Would you consider the possibility that it may be experience rather than presumption?

Especially for women - it's much harder to lose weight. Once I was on T - I can lose/gain weight easily.

And, worst of all, because of the assumption that anyone can lose weight by eating right and exercising, there's nothing medical science can really do for people who are fat and can't lose weight through no fault of their own.

@JennyD You're chucking half a scenario in that I have no possible way of answering, which doesn't really prove any point

3:55 PM

I think the point @JennyD is trying to make is - being overweight it's as black and white as "I'm fat because I chose this"

It's quite obvious some people have issues with weight that may go deeper

some people suffer from low metabolism.. sure, they can work out and try to eat healthy, but they'll always suffer from weight

@cole And I never once said it was

@Dan You are also chucking a scenario in - yours is "if you just eat less and exercise you will lose weight". And several people here have said that this is not necessarily true.

@JennyD Okay, how about true for most

Mind you, I've seen people 'exercising', too - but that's a whole different kettle of fish

In my experience, most people are hugely deluded by the amount they eat, the amount the exercise and how fat they are

I noticed the other day that I'd 'have to run the best part of 10 miles just to burn off a Burger King meal - THAT'S why we're overweight as a society

3:58 PM

@cole My weight has always reacted to what hormonal treatment I've been on for my endometriosis. When I was a teenager I was severely underweight. It wasn't until they put me on testosterone for my endo that I was able to gain weight - and I'd been doing stuff like drinking cream straight from the bottle, things like that, to gain some weight...

@Dan To be fair, most people are wildly deluded about most things.

Isn't there essentially a typical day's dietary requirements for a person in a mcburger style meal?

@RobM Yup - it's why I dont' lose weight!

It's the bread in those burgers that makes you fat

@JennyD yeah I completely agree with you - I've watched my girlfriend struggle with her thyroid issues. Endometriosis - I am so sorry