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12:00 AM
i should check on my boeing stock ;|
hah, it's fine. weird how all the 787 woes don't really impact stock price.
12:38 AM
people know that they will fix it.
12:56 AM
@Lnafziger I was thinking of the "what can a passenger look out for" question too, lol
1:06 AM
@DannyBeckett that can be normal, that underwing valve is probably an overpressure release. This happened occasionally in the EMB-145 I flew when we were fueled from underground tanks or otherwise cold fuel, and then as the fuel heated and expanded in the wing, we would get flow out of the relief valve like that. It would also happen if we were overfuelled.
but hard to say for sure given the size of that puddle and my lack of knowledge on that planes fuel system
@all !!metar is now working again. It was due to pulling the latest code from GitHub, which had an old file in it.
!!metar ams
EHAM 220055Z 20009KT 7000 BKN020 02/01 Q1011 NOSIG
@casey apparently one of the pilots hit the fuel dump control
(take a look at the comments below the article)
@DannyBeckett "Perfectly normal". <clicks on dictaphone> "Note to engineering department: Fuel tanks in our plastic plane should not be made of kerosene-soluble plastics."
1:35 AM
@@Marko@aviation.stackexchange.com Care to chat in real time?
@DannyBeckett 747-100 and -200 aircraft would occasionally vent fuel during rotation. It was no cause for concern, but it might freak out the tower controllers.
Or the aircraft waiting to takeoff....
seems a waste of fuel! :)
2:15 AM
"Seminar Canceled, Winter Storm Warning! Don't Get Caught out in the Cold-Av Wx 101"
This Seminar has been cancled due to a Winter Storm Warning! It will be reschuled to a later date.

. . .the irony. It burns!
lmao, nice
3:11 AM
!!metar kbct
KBCT 220255Z E24011KT 10SM SCT039 M/M A2990
!!metar pbi
KPBI 220253Z 23010KT 10SM FEW150 17/14 A2990 RMK AO2 SLP124 T01670144 51001 $
!!weather pbi
PBI/KPBI: Palm Beach International Airport • Observed: 19 mins ago • Wind: 230°/SW @ 10kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Clouds: Few @ 15,000ft • Temperature: 16.7°C/62°F • Dewpoint: 14.4°C/58°F • Pressure: 29.90" Hg/1,012mb • Conditions: VFR
3:33 AM
@voretaq7 is this your brother? :p aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2012/April/18/…
4:05 AM
> MEMBER ALERT: AOPA closed Tuesday, Jan. 21, at 1:30pm, due to inclement weather.
We will reopen at 8:30 a.m. Eastern time on Wednesday, Jan. 22.
@egid Wusses.
it's true
1 hour later…
5:11 AM
posted on January 22, 2014 by John Ewing

Crossing the border from Canada into the US several years ago, I was asked what sort of work I did and I replied that I was a technical writer. The border officer asked if I'd written anything he might have read. I responded "Doubtful. I write the sorts of books that once you put them down, you just can't pick them up again." Unfortunately, the same can be said of most any aircraft Approved

2 hours later…
7:19 AM
@roe I think it's basically that they prevent the fuel from immediately sloshing to the bottom of the tank (sloshing can include top to bottom, right?). — egid 11 hours ago
@egid might work, so you should probably stay away from inverted flight when running low on fuel then?
@DannyBeckett When I logged in here I saw a 1 in a circle, which when I clicked it I think it said it was from you concerning an article I might be interested in. When I tried to follow to that, it disappeared. Could you resend at you convenience (if I'm recalling what I saw, which is getting to be a problem).
@Terry Hey, yeah it was just the link that's above, Aviation Mentor: Gyronimo! - it's a new weight & balance app (amongst other things). I thought you might be interested in it because I saw similarities to your w&b program, but then I wasn't sure whether it was completely related. That's when I removed the notification. That'll be why you saw it, but then it went. Sorry about that!
7 hours later…
2:49 PM
posted on January 22, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

22 January 1968: At 22:48:09 UTC (6:48:09 a.m., EST) a Saturn IB rocket lifted off from Launch Complex 37B carrying LM-1, an unmanned Apollo Program lunar lander, into a low-Earth orbit. The purpose of the Apollo 5 mission was to test the Grumman-built LM in actual space flight conditions. Engines for both the descent and ascent stages […] The post 22 January 1968 appeared first on This D

3:02 PM
posted on January 22, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

22 January 1970: Captain Robert M. Weeks and crew flew the Pan American World Airways  Boeing 747-121, N736PA,  Clipper Young America, New York to London on a 6 hour, 43 minute inaugural passenger-carrying flight of the new wide-body jet. Aboard were a crew of 20 and 335 passengers. This painting showing the arrival at London […] The post 22 January 1970 appeared first on This Day in Avia

2 hours later…
5:07 PM
@Lnafziger that's pretty funny. I taxi by a half dozen 787s every time I fly, and I've never noticed the lack of trim tabs.
guess I'm so used to the 747s and 777s that occasionally also litter the ramp that I didn't really pay attention!
@egid Haha, I'm not 100% sure about the 787, but I don't think that it has trim tabs anymore either.
yeah, the more I look at photos, it seems to be tabless
@egid It wouldn't surprise me - trim tabs are an aerodynamic sacrifice for pilot comfort but with FBW controls there's no point
still a little surprising - I always thought that at high speed, servo/anti-servo tabs were pretty effective ways of imparting control forces
@voretaq7 I wouldn't say that they were for pilot comfort. They were necessary because of high control forces (sometimes higher than even possible for a pilot to overcome) before better ways were invented.
5:20 PM
but I suppose FBW systems can impart an awful lot of torque
@Lnafziger they also were for manual backup of hydraulics, iirc
but i guess triple/quad-redundant FBW has done away with mechanical fallbacks
does this seem like a legit edit
@egid Yeah, that's better
5:38 PM
hah, i always forget to edit question titles when i try to clean up language
oh well
5:55 PM
@Lnafziger you could always give the pilot a bigger lever :)
isn't that what the Soviets did with the MiG-15?
if they got into a dive, they would use a broom handle to pull out
wait, no, that's just yeager when they tested the X-1
Sounds like a good plan!
dammit Windows don't auto update i just want to use the vm
@voretaq7 I was actually debating updating his question, but didn't want to assume that's what he meant, lol.
(other than for the answer)
@Lnafziger I'm pretty sure that's what he meant :-) If not he can always revert my edit
6:06 PM
@voretaq7 True!
(I don't know of any "++" in aeronautical charts/the AFD/pretty much anywhere)
Yeah, that's why I figured that's what he was asking about when I answered.
didn't the FAA have the A/FD legend online at some point? I was looking for it to tack on as a comment to your answer but I can't find the damn thing now
(I know where it is in Foreflight - that counts for credit right?! :-)
Yeah, that's where I copied that from. :-)
I'll add it in, thanks.
@Lnafziger if you can find the link to the page that precedes it that'd probably be better (I think they remove those at the end of the cycle now because they're bastards)
6:10 PM
Yeah, the effective date is in the pdf filename
unfortunately, it's returned as part of the search results
And that page says "Do not Bookmark this page. It will expire when the airspace cycle ends."
grumble grumble stupid government grumble grumble
yeah the search page has the cycle date encoded in the URL too
Good to see healthcare.gov isn't the only government website designed by incompetent hyenas on crack.
oh and @DannyBeckett if my brother designed the airman certificates Orville and Wilbur would have Manga Hair and the flyer would probably have a dragon tail of some kind...
There, I included information on how to get to the legend.
6:47 PM
@voretaq7 I added to your "numbers" answer.
@Lnafziger you should post that as another answer - free reps! :)
my other question is free reps too - I'm just too lazy to look up the relevant requirements. Reading the FARs makes me sleepy :-x
@voretaq7 Well, you made it CW so I figured I'd "wiki" it. :)
@Lnafziger hmm... oh crap that was only supposed to apply to the answer. Stupid single-checkbox UI
Just noted the chat has a new favicon, looks good ;-)
...I could fix it but that'd be effort so wiki it :-)
6:59 PM
i think we need
@voretaq7 And do you mean to install a kit like the one in your question, or to design one? (question is vague)
@DeltaLima the site icon changed too (but browsers cache that like it's made of gold).
@BretCopeland thanks for pursuing this
@Lnafziger just for electronic ignition/FADEC in general
@voretaq7 I tried to refresh it, no luck so far.
7:01 PM
I vaguely recall from looking into it years ago that it's basically what Cirrus had to do (if it's all-electronic you need redundant power to all the components). Of course I also recall that I looked at the price of the STC kits and said "Yeahhhhhhhhhh no. You know how much panel candy I can buy for that?!"
@voretaq7 Ummm, the manufacturer has to get the STC approved, and they have all kinds of stuff to demonstrate...? That kind of stuff? Or "I want to put this STC in my airplane, what do I need to do?"
(actually not much, but my magnetos are fine. They make gasoline go boom)
@Lnafziger the former :-)
@voretaq7 Okay, have fun then.
the latter is easy "Follow the directions, color inside the lines, and get an IA to sign off on the 337."
@DeltaLima Sure. My involvement was literally just pinging a designer in our internal chat.
7:04 PM
@BretCopeland OctoJin? Or did they find him someone to do scut work? :)
@voretaq7 yes, Jin.
@voretaq7 I did find it interesting that the STC's that you linked to can only replace 1 magneto. You have to leave the other one in.
@BretCopeland I don't mind how little your involvement was, I still appreciate it
@Lnafziger somewhere in their pile-o-stuff they talk about how you can replace both mags, but you need to add redundant power (and I'm not sure the STC covers that)
@voretaq7 btw, Cirrus uses magnetos for ignition. They have electric systems for backup because essentially everything is electric (there's no vacuum instruments).
7:11 PM
there's at least one EI system that has basically a self-contained alternator/generator
@BretCopeland Isn't FADEC an option on the SR22?
e-mag's P-Mag i think
@voretaq7 possibly. Though I think people tend to confuse the combined throttle and prop control that the Cirruses have with a FADEC.
> Our P model ignition has an internal three phase brushless alternator that produce enough power to sustain the ignition when the engine is turning 800 rpm, or more.
@egid yeah I remember reading about those too - it's actually pretty nifty
7:15 PM
i don't think it's available for certified aircraft yet
1400 a pop
I don't think I'd ever completely replace the mags (I'd always leave the left mag / IC as a traditional magneto) but the idea of an electronic ignition system with variable advance is tempting
@egid A new Bendix mag is about there: aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/tcmmag.php
yeah. it's actually not bad.
@voretaq7 from what I can tell looking at Cirrus's website, and what I know about the planes, there's no FADEC.
The second there's an STC for it to go on certificated airframes the price will triple :-)
@BretCopeland I'll trust you & Cirrus over last year's Flying magazine story :-)
I think you're right and they're probably referring to the combined prop/throttle control
@voretaq7 Haha, again, the throttle is both a throttle and prop control, but it works off a cam system - not a computerized thing, and the mixture is still a separate control.
7:19 PM
@voretaq7 yes, that's all Cirrus does that's remotely clever when it comes to the engine
@BretCopeland yeah if you have a red knob there's no FADEC :-)
There is actually an approved after-market modification which separates the throttle and prop and gives you the blue knob.
If I owned a Cirrus, I would be tempted to get that.
@BretCopeland It does seem like coupling the two is "limiting"
@voretaq7 It's a very odd system which isn't particularly advantageous at higher altitudes.
But it's simpler. (Oh dear god, the Mac one-button-mouse attitude has made it to aviation?)
7:24 PM
What a terrible thought.
Why would you need more than one button in an airplane?
7:47 PM
posted on January 22, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

21 January 1968: A United States Air Force Boeing B-52G-100-BW Stratofortress, serial number 58-0188, of the 380th Strategic Aerospace Wing, was flying an Airborne Nuclear Alert mission as part of Operation Chrome Dome. The bomber, call sign Hobo 28, had a crew of seven and was armed with four B28FI two-stage radiation-implosion thermonuclear bombs carried […] The post 21 January 1968 app

8:04 PM
@BretCopeland "Deploy Chute"
That's probably the press and hold option.
@BretCopeland the yoke has 8 modifier switches on it :)
actually.... thinking about it (and excluding avionics which aren't really part of the plane) my panel really does only have one button. "START"
everything else is a switch, lever, or knob
Your start is a button? Is that the push in on the key thing?
@BretCopeland nope, old cherokees (pre-70s or so) have a 4-position key and a button for the starter
the newer ones are a 5 position / push-the-key start
Took a little bit to get used to having to flip the mags to "both" after the engine was running
You don't start on both?
8:15 PM
I suppose you could, but only the left mag has an impulse coupling (so it's the only one that's supposed to be firing at cranking RPMs anyway) & if the other one fires early it can make the engine kick
(then again my starter turns the damn engine too fast anyway - sometimes I get kickbacks even on the left mag)
Starting the Cirrus was generally the worst part of flying it.
Fuel injected, and if it was a little hot, it just basically gave you the finger.
@BretCopeland the last of the Cherokee 140s at NFI (38193) did not like to start. Hot, Cold, Warm, Bribed with kitten effigies - doesn't matter. ALL OF ITS NOPE.
Well, unless you turned it off with the key. That was about the only way to guarantee you'll get it started again hot.
@BretCopeland vapor lock? or just "uncooperative"?
8:46 PM
@voretaq7 I don't really know enough about engines to know what its problem was.
8:57 PM
@BretCopeland I know on the fuel injected Cessnas they wind up with vapor lock in the injection system (& have to run the boost pump in "high pressure" mode to actually get gasoline moving again) - I don't have these problems though, my engine is a product of the 1940s :P
9:07 PM
We generally leave the boost pump off in a Cirrus hot start. At least on the SR20 which is a Continental. The SR22 is a Lycoming and may be different.
9:52 PM
Q: During a takeoff emergency, is it safer to abort or continue the takeoff if either can be done within the available runway?

LnafzigerIn a multi-engine airplane, if an engine failure occurs at the exact moment that a decision needs to be made to reject or continue the takeoff, and there is plenty of runway available to do either, which one is statistically safer? A more technical way to ask the same question would be: When th...

That won't start any controversy....
10:10 PM
@BretCopeland how different is the plumbing between the two? Pretty much everything I've flown in has had a Lycoming engine in it, I've never had to dive into a Continental maintenance manual :)
@Lnafziger I threw a tag on that since it's multi-specific (surprisingly we didn't have that tag already)
obviously when your one-and-only engine fails you just cry (and pray) :)
@voretaq7 lmao, good one!
Hey, I say a short prayer every time I advance that throttle.
10:28 PM
@voretaq7 again, I don't really know how different they are internally. I've asked an A&P that sort of question once, but don't remember the details of his response.
"It has to do with which way the gerbil wheel is mounted"...no wait that's the "L" engines....
@Lnafziger What would YOU do?
Lesson #33: Try to stay in the middle of the air. Do not go near the edges of it. The edges of the air can be recognized by the appearance of ground, buildings, sea, trees and interstellar space. It is much more difficult to fly there.
(I'm looking for a particular message)
10:42 PM
Lesson #41: Pilots talk about women when flying, and flying when with women.
I don't know if this appropriate to ask on the site, but is there such a thing as a "hard" V1 as opposed to a "conservative" V1? I can imagine that on very long runways, V1 is very conservative and the pilot could decide to abort even after passing V1.
11:09 PM
@PhilippeLeybaert I go back and forth on the issue, and that's why I wonder if there have been any studies done.
@PhilippeLeybaert As far as V1 goes though, it doesn't take runway length into consideration.
@abelenky You can list them by number
!!teachmetofly 20
Lesson #20: The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
!!lesson 21
Lesson #21: When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane you always have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.
@PhilippeLeybaert I guess to answer your question, right now I use "standard" V1 speeds and don't calculate the higher ones, even though I could (theoretically) do it safely.
@PhilippeLeybaert And V1 can be limited by things other than runway length too (brake energy comes to mind - BAD things happen when you exceed that....).
@PhilippeLeybaert Aborting past V1 is very very bad. Now if you can calculate a higher V1 that is in compliance with the flight manual, you could use that. But never abort above a known V1 speed. :)
Anyway, I'm headed home. Cya guys!
So what do you do if it goes "V1-boom" (where "boom" is the sound of an engine going) ?
Because there's no such thing as "the exact moment".
11:17 PM
When V1 is announced by the non-flying-pilot, the flying-pilot removes his hand from the throttle and you continue no matter what. If that hasn't happened, then you abort.
In this case there is an "exact moment". It is the announcement of V1.
If V1 has been obtained (even a fraction of a second ago) then you know that you have enough runway to continue the takeoff and climb to a safe altitude.
But you don't necessarily know that you can safely abort.
Anyway, I'm leaving work. Buzz me later (or ask on the site) if you have more questions about V1!

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