Root Access - 2013-10-15 (page 4 of 4)

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7:04 PM

@OliverSalzburg 138 likes vs 3. Your argument is invalid.

@Braiam If I wanted to golf it I would have written the gist in Haskell :P

@OliverSalzburg That's the idea. I didn't even read it after I wrote it though, just slapped some code together over the course of 45 seconds to give the general idea. On second look I see a blatant missing comma, and who knows what other horrible garbage

Oliver Salzburg

@JimmyHoffa I don't know if I would want to go that far for this script though

On the other hand, I just implemented this:

user image

One less click \o/

But, without that one extra click, my hand won't get it's much needed exercise!

7:20 PM

Here's your pseudo-Haskell gist of it off the top of my head:

captureButtonDialog = Dialog <$> buttons [cancelButton] <*> KeyDown (\x -> x >>= \y -> (y, Dialog <$> buttons [cancelButton, Button ("Alt+" ++ show x)]))

is that golfy enough for ya?

@JimmyHoffa Jesus Christ

/me runs back to VBScript with open arms

thank god they didn't choose Haskell for our new test harness

this is totally not pimping my Long Answer Of The Day (LAOTD):

1

A: charging a phone via a laptop which is also being charged

The Oversimplified Principle Of Battery Charging Assuming you know the following: The input power, in Watts, that your power supply / charger is capable of supplying to your laptop The power, in Watts, that your laptop is draining while it is running (assuming you have it running; otherwise th...

@allquixotic It's actually a beautiful language formatted and well written. Unfortunately there's a sliver of engineers who know functional programming, and only a sliver of them are willing to bash their heads open to fit Haskell in

Cleanly formatted the above would look something like...

@JimmyHoffa I remember enough OCaml (the functional syntax, not the optional imperative syntax) to get by, had to learn it in college, but the extent of my functional programming in day to day life is lambdas and delegates in C#

lambdas have a certain "beauty" to them, but I'd rather put a bullet to my head than tangle with "higher-order functions" and stuff like that... you can take my lambda as an argument and call it on a list of objects, but anything more complex than that and I start to reach for an OOP language as a crutch

@allquixotic Same here, the only time I get to write actual production code that does anything relatively functional is in JavaScript, C# doesn't have a flexible enough type system to do the really interesting things because constraint-based inferrence is undecidable within the framework of it's type checker

15

A: No type inference with generic extension method

Generic method type inference deliberately does not make any deductions from the constraints. Rather, deductions are made from the arguments and the formal parameters, and then the deduced type arguments are checked against the constraints. For a detailed discussion of some of the design issues ...

blogs.msdn.com/b/ericlippert/archive/2009/12/10/…

weird, Eric Lippert changed his SO photo... he looks all clean cut now which is strange after picturing him as this shaggy time-weathered engineer all this time

@JimmyHoffa I remember Linspire back in the early 2000s had several system management scripts which replaced default Debian functionality (which was probably written in Bash) with more "robust" versions written in OCaml

they "cheated" and used some of the imperative/OOP constructs of OCaml, but there were some functional gems in there too

7:33 PM

> Among the properties making HM so outstanding is completeness and its ability to deduce the most general type of a given program without the need of any type annotations or other hints supplied by the programmer. Algorithm W is a fast algorithm, performing type inference in almost linear time with respect to the size of the source, making it practically usable to type large programs.

I think that was actually before Python had a critical mass of programmers, it was that long ago

That's one of the coolest things about FP right there, with the HM type system inference can be provably correct with very loose generalizations so you get a statically typed program that's compile-time error checked, while being able to use what plays very near to the edge of duck typing all without having to use subtypal polymorphism which is great because subtypal polymorphism is very restrictive as well as requiring tons of explicitness

but .NET as well as basically all large-scale industry languages run on a type system soooo far removed from HM that even F# can't properly use algorithm W even though it's based on OCaml

O well, I'll just stick to writing nice happy-slappy C# and wishing for a brighter tomorrow with typeclasses, rank N types, parametric polymorphism, universal quantification and perhaps, just perhaps, a touch of homoiconicity to make those weirdo S-Expression people happy

!!tell 11697103 no

ChatBot John Cavil

user image

!!tell 11697117 Sometimes

ChatBot John Cavil

7:40 PM

@JimmyHoffa Command sometimes does not exist.

@JimmyHoffa although all of that stuff sounds great in theory, I have to think that there are good practical, pragmatic reasons, other than "most people are too stupid to understand this stuff", that these things aren't widely used in practice.

!!tell 11697133 no

ChatBot John Cavil

user image

@allquixotic There are! They're brand new.

You see, it's really hard to make computer science concepts "usable" to people who aren't career computer scientists (and by "computer scientist" I mean someone who devotes their entire life to almost exclusively studying theory of computing, not practical engineering)

7:41 PM

These are all things that have been implemented in a programming language for the first time within the past 10 years

it may even be that certain computer science concepts, even if they're extremely useful, are just not going to ever be assimilated into the consciousness of the bulk of programmers

not all things which seem theoretically awesome are useful in practice

@allquixotic As an industry programmer with nought but a GED and 13 years on the Microsoft stack to my name, I understand the reality of the industry plenty well. I also understand that people vastly overestimate the complexity of these things (due mostly because they're so new only the folks who came up with the stuff know about it, therefore all you ever hear about any of it is PhD talk). The reality is these things are no further off in complexity from where we are right now than LINQ

is from the COBOL of the late 80s/early 90s

(BTW, LINQ is wholesale stolen by the Haskell developers which happen to be the same ones who designed and implemented .NET from Haskell)

@JimmyHoffa that may be true, but I have yet to see any book or course or tutorial that teaches any pure functional language in a way that doesn't require the learner to first master the theoretical underpinnings of lambda calculus

Haskell is the play ground of the folks who design and implement .NET, it's where they incubate and test all their ideas to see how they play out. Many have made it into .NET, it's just a long incubation process (LINQ is the list monad which was foundational to Haskell circa '98)

most people (including myself; I flunked that particular unit in college) balk at lambda calculus and will not attempt to learn a programming language that is fundamentally based on that

so the challenge is, teach the useful stuff without requiring people to understand lambda calculus... thing is, we aren't learning any kind of explicit theoretical framework that tells us about the code flow of an imperative program; it's ingrained into our very beings... "code is like a timeline" -- this statement then the next, then the next, on into the sunset... we think in terms of imperative "recipes"

imperative has that enormous evolutionary advantage because we instinctively understand the linear continuity of time, and imperative programming (and to a large degree OOP) is based on that

no one had to sit down and teach college kids the physical underpinnings of linear time in order for them to understand that a statement in an imperative program which is "underneath" the line above it, executes after it, simple as that

threading throws a bit of a kink in that, but not much

FP completely changes the concept of what executes when in the program, and how many times, and with what arguments, etc.

7:49 PM

@allquixotic I know, isn't it beautiful! :D

so the FP programmer has to throw all their evolutionary instinct out the door

@allquixotic It's just a different approach, it makes certain things way clearer, and some things less clear. It affords more safety and generates less bugs as industry developers have shown, though there is a learning curve, the bright side is it's extremely difficult to create bugs even as a beginner, usually if your code compiles it works as intended, which is the greatest part of referential transparency

@JimmyHoffa I am usually a proponent of things that promise to prevent programs from compiling unless they're correct, but this entire new paradigm is going to take a lot more education and time to work its way down to mainstream programmers than, say, type safety or generics

these days, the "cool kids" like to use languages with as little restriction as possible at compile-time, which drives me up an absolute wall; can't tell you how many times I run Python or Ruby and get a type error at runtime that would've been caught at compile-time by a C/C++/Java/C# compiler

Perfect example of something it makes way clearer is parsers. The monadic abstraction makes parsing complex things soo easy anyone can learn it, parser combinators result in what is effectively a DSL so you really don't need to understand the underlying language at all, have a read here colleague of mine with 0 FP experience found this quite clear to follow

@allquixotic generics came from the paradigm already, as did lambdas, as well as LINQ like I said. It's making it's way to the every developer already :) it'll just take 10-20 years before we start to see parametric polymorphism see real industry acceptance. I'm willing to wait that. :)

the standard generics implementations across C#/C++/Java all have a bunch of contravariance/covariance issues that really just don't play well which goes back to the type system now allowing the higher level abstractions. That'll go away slowly over time though just like when they were first introduced to .NET 2 and everybody looked at them and half were like "Huh? Nonsense!" the other half were like "Woo great!" and then used them wrong, but eventually they became a standard

@JimmyHoffa okay; also, I don't think any pure functional language is ever going to see mass adoption on the scale of Java/Python/C#; I say that because I feel like functional paradigm isn't the ideal tool for every job, sometimes imperative/OOP is exactly what you need, and having a mix of both in the same environment is probably the most successful way to go, if you have a sensible compatibility layer between them (for the purpose of interfacing) that doesn't seem unnatural to either side

Oliver Salzburg

8:00 PM

@Braiam In general, there is no need for answers to apply to every conceivable platform. If someone claims something like that in a comment, it's best to ignore them

@allquixotic Just because it's pure doesn't mean it doesn't allow side effectful/IO programming. it has fantastic IO facilities, it just has strong boundaries that make it so what you define to execute in a side effectful context is segregated from what you define to execute in a pure context

still, I would be open to learning new C# and Java language extensions that introduce all these fancy FP concepts while still allowing my old OOP code to compile and run correctly with no modifications

we'll let Microsoft and Oracle think about that (admittedly hard) problem for 10-20 years

When you're working in lists you're in a list, when you're working in a context that can have exceptions you are in that context, and to marry the two you have to explicitly define how they interact with eachother such that exceptions cause X behaviour within the lists and lists are treated with Y behaviour within the exceptions context, then there's that explicit integration definition for everytime something passes between contexts

granted these definitions are part of the standard libraries but that's where the "purity" comes in. It's pure in your context, outside of your context who knows what's going on but you don't have to worry about that because you made very clear delineations of how things outside of your context can interact with things inside of your context. these clear explicit integration behaviours ensure side effects never occur accidentally

</rant>

Oliver Salzburg

0

Q: Allow HTTPD service to create folders and make changes in the files

I am running drupal on a host, the problem is it can not create directories or update files. I have tried to apply the 775 permissions to all the folders but still the problem is not solved. After doing a little research I have came to the conclusion that the HTTPD service should be allowed to p...

linux webserver

Oh god...

Food for thought ;D

Oliver Salzburg

8:05 PM

> tried to apply the 775 permissions to all the folders

@OliverSalzburg commented

@OliverSalzburg ok

I think that's the answer I'm looking for

@Braiam yeah, as I said in my answer, ~200k users, 2 of them complained, that's not a problem.

@allquixotic ...one last point if I may: I took the time to learn Haskell believing identically to you. After learning it, it completely changed my tune. I have met a great many who also know Haskell, and none of them that have made claims of it's impossibility/unusability in industry, quite the opposite actually. The only folks I have so far met who claimed it an inappropriate choice for industry tasks were folks who didn't take the time to learn it. So prove yourself right by learning Haskell :)

Oliver Salzburg

@Braiam Also, Jukka didn't want to suggest that you press Alt+B,0 but you hold Alt, then press + and then B and then 0

This is required to enter character codes in hex (and has to be enabled though a registry setting)

8:14 PM

@OliverSalzburg really?

Oliver Salzburg

@Braiam Yes

I need to restart to windows... what a mess...

Oliver Salzburg

When typed out, it will print °

wait, there is some registry key to modify, which?

Oliver Salzburg

17

A: How do you type Unicode characters using hexadecimal codes?

Found this in How to enter Unicode characters in Microsoft Windows, but haven't tested it yet : I tested this on Windows XP and Windows 2003. This method works regardless of any of your language settings, but is the most cumbersome to type: Press and hold down the Alt key. P...

I think that's the correct one

Even though I hate that it's one of harry's answers ;P

8:17 PM

lol

ok, will try in a min

@JimmyHoffa sure, I could learn it, but it would be a political disaster in the office to try and push it for actual work, because people around here are extremely conservative; we're struggling to get Ruby and C# in the door, the de facto is VBScript.

also, language bindings... I don't feel like reinventing the wheel every time I have to accomplish some task; I am perfectly fine with most libraries I need having linkage or bindings to C/C++ or at least Java or Ruby or C#, but for every library that can be called from Haskell, there are 100 that can't.

@OliverSalzburg @terdon I think this answer summarize the whole thing?

@allquixotic I never said to use it in industry, just to learn it, then after doing so ask yourself if you still agree with your pre-Haskell stance. I understand your point full well, I've worked in financial sector shops and a lot of places where C# is the height of technology, where they're years behind and writing C# like it's C and too conservative for scary things like unit tests. I've also worked in .NET shops that were very forward thinking. Industry shops come in all shapes and sizes.

Oliver Salzburg

@Braiam I would write my own answer, but I rather wait a bit until the sea has calmed :P

@Braiam there are no rules really, it is up to each OP to decide whether an answer is correct and up to each member to vote as they see fit.

Oliver Salzburg

8:20 PM

...and I also just wrote a long meta answer :P

If you post a question and you feel that an answer solves it, then you accept it. It's up to you.

I worked one place just last year, yep 2012, where they upgraded to .NET 4 because they had to stay on the best-supported platforms due to fear. That same fear had them still running code that had been automatically ported from delphi to C# 2.0 years earlier which had been automatically ported from pascal to delphi in the 90s. They were on .NET 4 and had a rule that you were not allowed to use events or delegates of any fashion.

@OliverSalzburg well, that's what we pay you mod types for isn't it?

:)

@JimmyHoffa well, while I'm still skeptical, I am in fact more or less accepting of the prediction that FP will eventually work its way into widespread usage... it will take at least one really good, easily accessible implementation of it within the confines of an already well-established platform, say, iOS or Android or Win32/.NET, and then it'll just take off like an infinite recursion.

They had ~80+ developers on staff and most all of them weren't allowed to touch the code because the management was too afraid they would break something, so they paid them to effectively go to meetings and write documentation but they didn't even have permissions to check in save for one team of ~10 in the company

Oliver Salzburg

8:21 PM

@terdon Right, right, the money...

@terdon well actually I'm hoping for as many answers/methods as possible, I think is referenced in @DanielBeck answer that I linked

I'm not denying that it will eventually enter the industry; I'm just saying it's possible that it won't, because it has the reputation of being such a hairy, scary bugbear of a concept to learn; so it's going to take a big push from a well-known and widely-used environment for it to get any traction.

@Braiam I know, all I'm saying is that there are no "rules" that decide whether an answer is correct, each person votes as he or she wants to.

like, say, if Java 9.0 supported more FP stuff (hey, Java 8 is supporting lambdas; that's a start), that would help, because Java is taught in college

@allquixotic not mine...

8:25 PM

Well, recently Robert Shiller, Eugene Fama and Lars Peter Hansen were awarded Nobel Economic prize for their work which involves spotting trends in market (assets price). I have been searching their research article (i want to read their paper), i Google but got nothing. Can anyone give me some tips how to Google for their article?

@allquixotic I have a feeling ~5-10 years from now the concurrency model in OO languages is just going to break down horribly, when all of us enterprise devs like you and I find ourselves writing server-side code to run on a machine with 256 cores regularly, and everyone's trying to think in terms of actor-like signalling instead of coarse locks which don't scale... suddenly it's going to spread like wild-fire, one word: Immutability.

@JimmyHoffa heh, I had to implement a web service in ASMX instead of WCF because the team that was consuming the web service was too chicken to learn a new technology, even though their baseline platform was the full .NET Framework 4 (not even Client Profile) :)

and that was last year, too

@allquixotic Heh yeah, so common...

@JimmyHoffa I dunno; we already have "machines with 256 cores" (actually, thousands more than that) with OpenCL backed by a GPU with thousands of weak cores... we manage somehow... on embarrassingly parallel workloads anyway...

Learning FP actually already has given me an edge in the concurrency stuff, I use EventWaitHandles in .NET instead of coarse locks regularly to do primitive message passing for much higher throughput concurrency on some things. I've seen some of my colleagues struggle with this stuff a good bit.

8:28 PM

@NokImchen if you know the name of the paper is more easy to find it

there are a few problem domains where you can design lock-free and wait-free algorithms in an imperative/OOP paradigm that largely eliminates scaling problems, too

those are "hard" to develop just like FP is "hard", though: you have to learn yourself some stuff before you can do it :)

@allquixotic Do you think we're all going to move to CUDA instead? That's the only reason we do that stuff, there's effectively a concurrency DSL in place. Perhaps something similar will crop-up that's more general purpose than CUDA...

@Braiam i dont know the name of the paper, no news (yahoo, cnbc, cnn, local papers) mentioned the paper title :( bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-14/…

@NokImchen Random Walks in Stock Market Prices

@JimmyHoffa I don't know about CUDA, but if you mean generally "GPGPU languages", I think that you'll see more workloads being moved off to a dedicated GPGPU hardware before you'll see 256-core CPUs... problem is that we are bumping up against physics (for the current paradigm of hardware engineering) on things like leakage, quantum tunneling effects, fab size, die size, and thermal

Oliver Salzburg

8:31 PM

@NokImchen Scientific papers aren't usually on the internet for grabs

@Braiam From where did you get that?? :|

@OliverSalzburg actually they are

@OliverSalzburg ya, they all want money money money :(

to get 256 cores on a single die (or even four die on a motherboard) with each core having half of a current i7's throughput would be extremely difficult and costly with current technology

@NokImchen google voodoo :P

8:31 PM

@allquixotic I did say 5-10 years from now heh

2018-2023

Oliver Salzburg

@Braiam They are?

@NokImchen try scholar.google.com

@Braiam i have been searching for almost 24 hours :(

@terdon @Braiam has found it for me :)

meh, actually I looked for '"paper" Robert Shiller Eugene Fama Lars Peter Hansen'

@Braiam You do realize that they worked and published independently?

8:33 PM

@JimmyHoffa even in 2023 I don't see us having 256-core CPUs. honestly. there was this huge thing in the earlier part of the decade about how core count would just explode, and it simply hasn't -- Intel and co. are running out of tricks, methinks, and it's coming down to micro-optimizations in the physical layout of the chip, "turbo mode", better cooling solutions for higher clock rates, and stuff like that

@DanielBeck it's a start ;)

@NokImchen here's one of the relevant papers: jstor.org/discover/10.2307/…

> Fama, 74, is a father of the "efficient markets hypothesis,"

@Braiam Would have expected more success when searching for them individually :-/

But people get Nobels for a collection of work spanning years, not for a single article so there won't be one specific one.

8:33 PM

@DanielBeck why nobody reads the Washington post

@NokImchen here they are washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/…

2

2023 I bet the very highest end commercially available enterprise server CPU from Intel would be strictly less than 64 cores. this is discounting "supercomputers" (HPC) space, which is (1) being taken over by GPGPU anyway, and (2) way out of the common line of business IT department's budget

btw, GUYS, you all read it, invest in stock mark, earn $$$ :P

You could look up their nobel acceptance speech which tends to be about an hour long and explain the theories in question

Oliver Salzburg

@NokImchen I don't think it's like the 3 co-authored any paper. They did independent research

They have to split the award as far as I understand

So they're being honored for their individual work in the field

@OliverSalzburg oh, i see, so, i have to read all the 3 papers and interpret the result myself :(

8:35 PM

@Braiam great find

@allquixotic That's a fair prediction. I think it'll be more but we're both just taking a wild swag, predicting anything out that far is damn hard.

> In a 1981 paper, for example, he demonstrated that stock prices are much more volatile than the underlying trends in the dividends they pay would suggest.

^ in pdf Shiller's paper

For all we know they might come out with graphene CPUs in 2 years and then start churning out 1-core 25ghz CPUs by 2023

who knows

Oliver Salzburg

@NokImchen Yes. But they have several works and are being honored for their overall achievements

@allquixotic You know we're at 10 cores, and double that in threads, now?

Oliver Salzburg

8:36 PM

> Shiller made his indelible mark as an economist with an article in the June 1981 edition of the American Economic Review, in which he questioned the “efficient markets hypothesis,” which holds that stock market prices are driven by the rational expectations of investors.

> The article — titled "Do Stock Prices Move Too Much to Be Justified by Subsequent Changes in Dividends?" — was named one of the "top 20" articles in the 100-year history of the American Economic Review, one of the most respected journals in its field.

Ok, is unanimous, the Washington Post is the best source for this news :)

@JimmyHoffa yeah... I think really the future is taking enterprise workloads and figuring out how to divide up at least some pieces of them into a staged pipeline with embarrassingly parallel steps and a minimal number of synchronized "checkpoints" in between; I visualize it kinda like a series of hourglasses put together back to back

I wonder if you should kick your neighbour's ass if he listens to loud music that bothers you and does not listen to your requests...

you put the embarrassingly parallel tasks on a GPU and don't worry about synchronization

that should take care of most of the performance problems -- for now

@Boris_yo here you would be dead by then....

8:37 PM

hmmm.... now, i'll log out and read slowly like an old tortoise. My reading speed is really slow because of my squint eyes :(

'course, FP could come along and make threading easier even without having to extract embarrassingly parallel workloads

@Braiam Here, where?

Thanks a lot guys, you guys are really expert in searching :)

but I think most shops won't be doing FP until after they design their huge, multi-million-dollar system on the GPGPU staged pipeline paradigm first

they spend the money; deploy their system; then a few years down the road have a meeting where the lead developer, looking defeated that the system has reached its limits, starts reading FP magazines :P

GPGPU is easier, relatively speaking, for "non-FP" guys to wrap their heads around than FP

@allquixotic This is how we did it at virtual earth, something like 12k 1u machines all running a service which would pick up tasks, some tasks could scale to the size of the number of files required for the task, some couldn't scale at all, the tasks were organized in order just data pipelining

8:39 PM

@Boris_yo my country...

@JimmyHoffa yeah, except that nowadays you'd either use an HSA compiler that would extract the EP tasks for you, or you would write some hand-coded OpenCL or CUDA for those stages

@NokImchen we haz the powerz in google voodoo :D

@Braiam India? And why?

you would probably need fewer than 12k 1Us worth of hardware to accomplish the task if you can afford to lay down the money for about 500 Tesla cards

and some SSDs for storage

@Boris_yo wait, what? I'm talking about if you do that in my country

8:41 PM

@Braiam i Googled google voodoo but i saw nothing much, what is it? :|

OMG!

@Braiam Where do you live?

*checks profile*

I'm so lost :|

@NokImchen Like Google-fu with more zombies

8:43 PM

@JimmyHoffa it's funny how enterprises, when they seriously need to tackle a problem like scaling, almost always move to the most-familiar, least-helpful step up in the paradigm to improve their scalability, rather than going straight to the best known solution

@DanielBeck you mean with more straw dolls :P

@allquixotic Risk aversion, the MBA's one true friend.

@DanielBeck lol Google-fu ==> kung-fu

@allquixotic best known = least well-known?

@DanielBeck returns false

8:45 PM

!!define fu

ChatBot John Cavil

@terdon fu (Internet, slang) fuck you

Is it just me, or is the chat scrolling to the top and back down every time someone posts something?

wow

@DanielBeck no, "best known" in that sentence means, like, the solution that a computer scientist would tell you to use -- the state of the art solution

:), not what I was looking for

8:45 PM

not the solution best known by the developers

google.com/search?q=define+fu

!!define -fu

@DarthAndroid press F5. problem solved

ChatBot John Cavil

@Braiam -fu (slang) Expertise; mastery.

@terdon ^

8:46 PM

lol I'm amazed that adding - to fu gives a different definition :D

@Braiam thanks, still not the relevant one, poor wiktionary

@allquixotic That's the point I tried to make.

@allquixotic Already F5 and Ctrl+F5

this is not something in my local cache

@DanielBeck well, then, yes -- generally -- industry practitioners, at least where I work, tend to be pretty far removed from the CS state of the art

@DarthAndroid OK, well, then it's just you -- I've hit that bug a few times in the past, but an F5 always fixed it for me

@terdon it's a slang, obviously the UrbanDictionary will have the relevant term...

8:50 PM

@JimmyHoffa at the same time, I strongly agree that getting a head start on FP would be hugely beneficial for me and my career, because just in case FP becomes mainstream and I need to get a job, having the actual capability to easily pick up any new FP languages/environments is going to be a big boost for me.

@Braiam yeah but if it does, it will have a shitty definition. I know what it means and I think it is derived from the Japanese fu which means see but I'm surprised I cannot find a definition to cite

I think for that reason alone I will start looking into it

I don't want to be left behind, and I don't want to have to memorize FP code snippets by rote either... I know a few people I work with who still don't understand OOP, and I can tell, because they are always copy and pasting OOP code like inheritance and interfaces instead of just doing it

yay!

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Google-fu

!!define Google-fu

@terdon don't you mean chinnese -fu?

ChatBot John Cavil

@terdon google-fu Alternative form of Google-fu.

8:52 PM

@Braiam no: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fu#Japanese

ChatBot John Cavil

@terdon Google-fu Skill in using search engines (especially Google) to quickly find useful information on the Internet.

finally

@terdon no en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kung_fu#English

it must really suck to have to work with some technology without having any clue about how it really works; you're effectively just slinging around a certain "syntax algebra", trying to assemble the opaque symbols in the right order, kinda like a rat pressing a button to get a piece of food, then being behaviorally programmed to hit it in response to the correct stimuli to get food reliably :P

-fu comes from kung-fu, and kung-fu is a chinesse martial art

8:54 PM

@allquixotic Welcome to my life.

It's fun though, when you get the food.

@DarthAndroid o_O what do you work with that you have to operate by rote?

@DarthAndroid but the wheel is just a pain >_<

@Braiam yup, looks like you're right: In Chinese, kung fu (功夫, gōng meaning "work" or "achievement" and either fū, "man", or fu, a particle or suffix that can mean "intensity") can also be used in contexts completely unrelated to martial arts, and refers to any individual accomplishment or skill cultivated through long effort and hard work

Kung fu/Kungfu or Gung fu/Gongfu ( or ; , Pinyin: gōngfu) is a Chinese term referring to any study, learning, or practice that requires patience, energy, and time to complete, often used in the West to refer to Chinese martial arts, also known as Wushu. It is only in the late twentieth century, that this term was used in relation to Chinese Martial Arts by the Chinese community. The Oxford English Dictionary defines the term "Kung-fu" as "a primarily unarmed Chinese martial art resembling karate." This illustrates how the meaning of this term has been changed in English. The origin of ...

@allquixotic Undocumented APIs. Ancient libraries. "Does this work? Ooooh, yes it does! I have no clue why it does, but it does, let's go with it. Hope it doesn't break."

2

@DarthAndroid oh, right. those. You had me at ancient libraries :/

I totally get that

8:56 PM

Embedded programming environments that don't have debuggers. HISS

@DarthAndroid Were you here when I posted this snippet?

'Make the MSComDlg.CommonDialog class available for use. Required for filedialog function.
'If the class is already registered in HKCU or HKLM, making these registry modifications has no effect in practice.
'HKCU is modified instead of HKLM because admin rights are not required to modify HKCU.
'The constant hex value referring to HKCU is &H80000001 which is used below.
function registerComDlg
	Set objRegistry = GetObject("winmgmts:\\.\root\default:StdRegProv")
	objRegistry.CreateKey &H80000001, "Software\CLASSES\Licenses\4D553650-6ABE-11cf-8ADB-00AA00C00905"

gfjmrfkfifkmkfffrlmmgmhmnlulkmfmqkqj is cat-typese for "I have no idea why this works, but it works"

Mr. I Don't Care

so...wassup

@Mr.IDon'tCare just read the stared post at the right ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->

@allquixotic Figuring this out, I suppose: code.dragonzone.net/_admin/gists/1

Sadly *(i 32, i 0, &v16, w s., w s.) i .r0 is not cat-typese for "I have no idea why this works, but it works", but rather "Let's play operation with raw memory and hope we don't bump into anything."

o.o

9:03 PM

Also, this isn't assembly, there is no such thing as a debugger for this language.

(Nullsoft Install Script, if curious)

Nullsoft Install Script, noted in the black list

(Which, do be fair, most normal install operations are alright in NSIS )

However, since there is no way to legally install .Net DLLs into the GAC without either a) using an MSI or b) calling COM libraries, I had to find a way to do the latter from NSIS since we're not using MSI.

Speaking of which, I should probably get clearance to post the GAC script on the NS wiki for others that need it.

@DarthAndroid heh, so that installs a .NET DLL into the GAC? does it require admin rights?

It does, and that's only a very small part of the process

is the argument to System::Call MSIL?

9:08 PM

specifically, that function creates the reference-counting structure used to install a GAC

Uh, no. That's the plugin style for NSIS

Mr. I Don't Care

!!hi

ChatBot John Cavil

@Mr.IDon'tCare That didn't make much sense. Use the help command to learn more.

I'm invoking the Call plugin method from System.dll

Mr. I Don't Care

!!what?

!!learn hello "Howdy."

ChatBot John Cavil

@Mr.IDon'tCare Command hello learned

Mr. I Don't Care

9:09 PM

!!hello

the System plugin is used to allocate memory, call DLL methods, and release memory

ChatBot John Cavil

@Mr.IDon'tCare Howdy.

Mr. I Don't Care

Yeeee

@iKlsR BOO! (did I scare you? did you think I was John Cavil? No, he's not greeting you again.)

._.

Oliver Salzburg

9:12 PM

You want to redirect the global domain name to a site that is hosted on your workstation? — Oliver Salzburg 11 mins ago

yes, i want to do that. exactly :-) — Greenleader 5 mins ago

3

@OliverSalzburg don't you know? the best "maverick" Web 4.0 websites are hosted on a laptop plugged into an ethernet jack precariously positioned on a small desk in a busy conference room with infinite opportunities for an inattentive coworker to trip, fall, and pull the ethernet or power cable out and make it go offline

it's called DevOps

bonus points if the laptop is a Celeron from 2008

Mr. I Don't Care

Is Windows 8.1 clean-installable?

@Mr.IDon'tCare yes

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic Well, I mean, you could move the website to a proper server. But why bother? It's already here on my desktop!

Mr. I Don't Care

So say if I have XP right now.

I could just back up my files

Clean install Windows 8.1 on the hard disk, erase xp and restore the files?

9:16 PM

@Mr.IDon'tCare yep

@OliverSalzburg I know, right? Google should totally hire us! we'd save them millions in infrastructure cost -- shrink all that wasteful server hosting down to one laptop in Larry Page's office!

Oliver Salzburg

What the... that guy has 12 golden badges on SO

...for famous questions

O_O

Mr. I Don't Care

So is this MS Dreamspark thing legit?

Oliver Salzburg

@Mr.IDon'tCare No it's a scam by MS

6

Mr. I Don't Care

So that means a ton of universities are in this scam?

9:22 PM

they're in on it too.

Basically, MS and these Universities are in collusion.

@Mr.IDon'tCare yep, it's a honeypot

Oliver Salzburg

I don't think I understand the question. "Does Microsoft legitimately give out free stuff to people in the hopes that they grow up to be a Microsoft fanboy and keep the Windows ecosystem alive for all eternity?" I mean, yeah, I guess

they're just waiting to come arrest you once you download

Mr. I Don't Care

What about the students of those universities that get those programs for free?

@allquixotic lol seriously?

!!tell 11698791 no

ChatBot John Cavil

9:23 PM

user image

Mr. I Don't Care

So it is legit after all.

Oliver Salzburg

@allquixotic That is really my favorite feature so far

Mr. I Don't Care

!!tell 44027 yes

ChatBot John Cavil

@Mr.IDon'tCare Command yes does not exist.

Mr. I Don't Care

WHAT THE HECK!!!!!!!!!!!

9:29 PM

!!tell 11698837 listcommands

ChatBot John Cavil

@Mr.IDon'tCare help, listen, eval, coffee, live, die, refresh, forget, ban, unban, info, jquery, choose, user, listcommands, norris, urban, parse, tell, mdn, afk, awsm, color, convert, define, findcommand, forgetseen, fuckable, get, github, google, hang, inhistory, learn, test, mustache, nudge, spec, stat, timer, todo, undo, weather, welcome, wiki, xkcd, youtube, fixit, why, ok, no, hello (page 0/0)

Mr. I Don't Care

!!ok

ChatBot John Cavil

@Mr.IDon'tCare Did I not just ask you to shut up? If not, then...shutup.

Mr. I Don't Care

:|

!!learn yes i.stack.imgur.com/ifgli.jpg

ChatBot John Cavil

9:30 PM

@allquixotic Command yes learned

!!tell 11698887 yes

ChatBot John Cavil

user image

Mr. I Don't Care

lol ok

haha

!!afk @OliverSalzburg I am pinging you every time someone pings me in an afk message lol

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic Apricots are people too!

Oliver Salzburg

9:34 PM

@allquixotic That's fine, I'll just suspend the bot for a lifetime once I get annoyed

ChatBot John Cavil

@OliverSalzburg allquixotic is afk: @OliverSalzburg I am pinging you every time someone pings me in an afk message lol

Oliver Salzburg

I'm getting pretty annoyed already!

Humm

@OliverSalzburg oh well, then I'd just have to create a new ~~sockpuppet~~ bot account

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic My spoon is too big!

Oliver Salzburg

!!afk @allquixotic This is just a test

ChatBot John Cavil

9:35 PM

@OliverSalzburg Stay safe.

@OliverSalzburg ping

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic OliverSalzburg is afk: @allquixotic This is just a test

Oliver Salzburg

Meh, it won't loop :(

ChatBot John Cavil

@OliverSalzburg Were you bitten!? Strip! Prove you weren't bitten.

@OliverSalzburg it would loop if we were both AFK, but as soon as you talk, the AFK flag goes off

we need a third party

Oliver Salzburg

9:37 PM

This reminds me of that Futurama episode

!!afk @OliverSalzburg

ChatBot John Cavil

@allquixotic Just go already!

Oliver Salzburg

!!afk @allquixotic

ChatBot John Cavil

@OliverSalzburg Stay safe.

@OliverSalzburg allquixotic is afk: @OliverSalzburg

@allquixotic this is me typing through the bot

@OliverSalzburg apparently it doesn't talk to itself

Oliver Salzburg

Shame :(

ChatBot John Cavil

9:39 PM

we need a sock puppet or a cooperative third party user

@OliverSalzburg Were you bitten!? Strip! Prove you weren't bitten.

Oliver Salzburg

Or multiple bots!

ChatBot John Cavil

oh god

Oliver Salzburg

> I was thinking about adding css somehow to this, or would it be better to convert it to SQL?

What the?

where is Bob when you need him

Oliver Salzburg

From superuser.com/questions/660399/best-way-to-pretty-up-a-csv-file

ChatBot John Cavil

9:40 PM

@allquixotic You've got some balls, coming back here after what you did.

@OliverSalzburg rofl, looks like Bayesian spam to me

would make a great audit post though

Oliver Salzburg

I mean, by all means, convert the CSV to SQL. It'll be great!

@OliverSalzburg adding CSS to CSV would be awesome :D

ohshi---

Galactic Civilizations III announced

Oliver Salzburg

0

Q: Is there a way to fake the dimensions of an image?

I'm just wondering if there is a way to maybe edit the height value to trick the computer into thinking it's a smaller image when you look at the info on it. I've seen someone edit a 10 hour video to 10 seconds, and it would still play but the bar would reach the end in 10 seconds, but basicall...

images resolution

What?

What is going on with the weird questions right now?

@OliverSalzburg someone faked the domain and we all are redirected to Super Trolls

Oliver Salzburg

9:53 PM

lol

@OliverSalzburg some form of attack? attack of the stupid?

stuporuser.com

stupidusers.com have more sence, but... isn't half funny

@OliverSalzburg Can I run my computer upside down? Will that hurt it? Would changing the voltage of the power supply to 1 KV cause my system to randomly BSOD? How do I make a cardboard stand to sit a LCD monitor on that will withstand a minor earthquake? How many GBs do I need to make a search engine?

(I'm just full of bad questions today; please don't smack me.)

Oliver Salzburg

0

Q: What happens if I install a virtual machine additions package on a host PC?

What happens if I install a virtual machine additions package (e.g. Virtual Machine Additions for Microsoft Virtual PC 2007, Integration Components on Windows Virtual PC, and Guest Additions on Oracle VM VirtualBox) on a host PC? Will there be any adverse effects, or will my system work fine? In...

virtualbox virtual-machine virtual-pc

Install them on the host, what?

lol

117 5

this person is spamming the frontpage with removing command

Oliver Salzburg

9:58 PM

@allquixotic It's part of the tag cleanup. So it's fine

@OliverSalzburg if memory doesn't fails me, the "only tags" cleanup is reserved for >2K users, no?

Oliver Salzburg

@Braiam Well, I guess we prefer to have the questions improved altogether. But I'm not too picky when it comes to people doing grunt work :P

There should just be a feature to batch-remove tags period

*puts mass editions of tags in tomorrow agenda*

@OliverSalzburg btw, don't worry, is AU sending you users askubuntu.com/questions/359569/…

Oliver Salzburg

Next question is #191,191 Weee

10:13 PM

@OliverSalzburg cross-post!

0

Q: Route RRAS traffic through a proxy

I have a VPN server up and running on a windows server 2003. All the users are able to connect to the server and NAT their IP (use server IP and internet). I was wondering if I could route all the traffic to a proxy server. In other words, Users connect to RRAS and then the whole traffic will go...

windows-server-2003 proxy rras

-1

Q: Route RRAS traffic through a proxy

I have a VPN server up and running on a windows server 2003. All the users are able to connect to the server and NAT their IP (use server IP and internet). I was wondering if I could route all the traffic to a proxy server. In other words, Users connect to RRAS and then the whole traffic will go...

windows vpn proxy pptp l2tp

Mr. I Don't Care

Dreamspark should have Microsoft Office

:|

@allquixotic seems more on topic in SF

@Braiam it's cross posted, they already have it

lol cross-posted to SO too stackoverflow.com/q/19391939/420156

10:41 PM

@allquixotic you chat killer ¬_¬

Journeyman Geek

hmm

Journeyman Geek

11:44 PM

connecting through a proxy

its taking even longer but its giving me yet another error message

11:58 PM

!!c> 30000000 / 60

ChatBot John Cavil

@Braiam 500000

ok

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