Root Access

12:00 AM

assportment Gads

Well, hard to comment on what goes on in majority muslim countries. But a lot of the time non-muslims aren't in the army.

In America it certainly isn't religion motivating war. other than notions of good and evil, which is dumb but better than notions that good=evil.

Psycogeek

@barlop but it makes a good ralley cry , when you need to find a few more reasons :-)

barlop

even then, the rally cry is just good vs evil.

not really religion in america

not like jesus wants you to conquer the world by the sword, no rally cry for that 'cos jesus doesn't.

so they're not really using religion as a reason

Also sometimes people join an army 'cos it's fun.

it's not exactly intellectuals that tend to join an army

it's an adventure.

Psycogeek

@barlop But we love the Iraqies, that is why we needed to free their people from the tyranny. They just did not want us there, nor for thier homes to be blown to bits, and their doors to be smashed down, and all that fun stuff we do to help.

barlop

What they didn't realise.. Was that in Islam, it's considered an evil thing to have foreign troops on your land..

even if they're helping bring down a dictator.

just having them there is an insult in islam

even if it's a personal preference to have them, islam says no

It's not love for Iraqis, but Common Interest, that led to wanting Iraq to be a liberal democracy and staying there trying to make it so.

If all the world were liberal democracies, it'd be a safer place.

But arab muslim countries aren't very good at being liberal democracies.

something america should have realised a lot earlier.

Psycogeek

12:10 AM

Wow so the Islam is just like the US? He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

barlop

that's a bit unclear for me to digest.

Psycogeek

Its the declarations of independance for the US, the basis for the whole country .

barlop

i'm not american, so it sounds foreign and unclear to me!

But really you have to examine other cultures in their own words.

not try to look at other peoples like they are americans.

.

Psycogeek

@barlop Well have it translated some time, there are about 17 points that WE made when trying to get away from (their words) ""A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people."" americanstandardplayingcards.com/…

barlop

Well, it's tiringly ambiguous.

'cos define tyrant.

Psycogeek

12:15 AM

Many many things in the founders (of our country) document we hold dear, that we are breeching , by treating others the same way we did not want to be treated.

barlop

The founders were very concerned about militant islam

You can't treat others the way you want to be treated, when they don't treat you the way you want to be treated, and they are a threat to you.

Psycogeek

@barlop No but if you look at the DoI and the constitition, they had no intention of being ruled by a psycotic church again.

barlop

America is not ruled by a psychotic church, what's the problem?

Psycogeek

@barlop Witch burnings, water dunkings (drownings) , executions for little reasons, opressing anyone who did not do the right religion (including destoying lives and killing them) You know the usual things :-)

barlop

America doesn't have that. Though the countries that threaten it do.

Psycogeek

12:20 AM

@barlop well they did some still even after they arrived on the new land. but that is why most of them Left.

it is classed as "seperation of church and state" original intention would be that people could believe what they want to believe, and the government would not be influenced by the church.

barlop

►

^^ iranian military parade

Psycogeek

@barlop almost as good as the olympics :-) are you sure they weren't praising all their allies :-)

barlop

here's one from 2007, where they split the american flag. youtube.com/watch?v=uhdXggQVOd0

Psycogeek

@barlop that so upstages our military putting underware on nakid peoples heads and taking pictures of it :-)

barlop

You can't seriously draw a parallel there.

The underwear thing was a rebel group. Not known by the leadership

This is an actual military rally overseen by the leader.

I mean..

The underwear thing was not overseen by the authorities.

it was some soldiers behaving badly

If you want to contrast it with Islamists, look at Islamists when they behave badly - taking hostages and beheading them.

Psycogeek

12:31 AM

Ok then better than a prison where you breech all your countries own laws, to hold people against the geoneva convention, Proudly, in another country , cause it wouldnt go off well in our own.

barlop

you think terrorists being fought oversees should have the rights of american citizens?

Psycogeek

So far it looks a little less benign than gunning down unarmed "terrorists" Running away, in the back from a helicopter with a 50Cal.

barlop

@Psycogeek Again, You are not comparing like with like

Psycogeek

@barlop they had american citizens in there too.

barlop

well I am not going to argue that an ISLAMIST american citizen, a terrorist, that has gone overseas to fight american soldires,should be treated with the rights of an american citizen I don't know why you think it's so important that an Islamist terrorist american that has gone to fight american solders, should be treated so well.

Psycogeek

12:37 AM

@barlop I hope your better informed than this before you make decisions to cuddle up to the US .

barlop

If I imagine for a moment if I were to go overseas and fight british soldiers, would I then turn aroudn to the british governemnt protesting that they guard my rights. It's insane. If anything I should go to the people i'm fightin for and ask them to protect my rights.

Psycogeek

@barlop There might be a new kind of war, and illegal one, that comes with illegal rest of the activity. it does not make any apsect of it correct.

barlop

well, even then. something can be morally correct and illegal. Or Immoral and legal.

Psycogeek

Dude were Americans, we were going to be different, and we sure as heck have the Massive military might, and enough nukes to wipe continents off the face of the map, soooo i think we can do things a bit correctally.

Joining in the same atrocities and ignorance, would make us no better than what were fighting. Hey mabey they can bring "democracy" to your country, and see how you like it?

barlop

having a huge nuclear arsenal doesn't protect yourself against somebody else having a nuclear arsenal and using it on you killing millions of americans.

Journeyman Geek

12:42 AM

@barlop: worked in the cold war

Bob

@barlop I think it's the expectation that everyone is treated with some basic rights. Declared combatants (who don't target civilians) have even more leeway.

barlop

@JourneymanGeek That is because the cold war didn't involve militant islam. So you had a deterrent effect

Bob

@barlop MAD

Journeyman Geek

and I'd argue a willingness for acceptable casualities might cause less deaths on the long run

see japan.

barlop

@Bob To an Islamist, MAD can seem like a good idea

Bob

12:42 AM

Which only works when neither side wants to die.

somequixotic

hey @Bob and @JourneymanGeek

Journeyman Geek

Wars go on longer cause countries arn't willing to kick other countries in the balls.

Bob

@barlop I'd like to point out that 'islamist' does not equal 'extremist'

You have extremists in every religion.

Journeyman Geek

yup

somequixotic

I have a container set up on my box running Debian 7.1 (Wheezy) that I'm trying to get some stuff set up on for RA

barlop

12:43 AM

@Bob I don't know what you mean by extremist. I'm just saying Islamist. As in militant muslim. Follower of a violent version of islam

Journeyman Geek

except maybe those darned jains ;p

Psycogeek

@Bob I wonder how well 2000 nukes would have worked for hitlers last stand?

Bob

@barlop The vast majority of islamists don't want to kill people.

Just a few make a bad name for the rest.

barlop

@Bob Islamist is not equal to Muslim.

Journeyman Geek

@Bob: there's moderate islamists

see turkey

Which is an interesting case since the army kept trying to get rid of him

barlop

12:44 AM

@JourneymanGeek you know the difference between an Islamist and a Muslim?

Bob

> Islamism is a set of ideologies holding that "Islam should guide social and political as well as personal life".

Not necessarily "I want to kill people".

Psycogeek

@barlop Yes aparently you got a hate on for one of them :-)

Journeyman Geek

@barlop: I'd consider the former one which attempts to enforce, by various means islamic political laws into regular life.

barlop

@Bob sounsd like a redefinition of Islamism

Journeyman Geek

IE not secular

Bob

12:45 AM

@barlop Sounds like you're trying to define Islamism differently from the conventional definition.

@somequixotic Hm?

barlop

I wonder who coined the term Islamist and Islamism

Journeyman Geek

@barlop: thats entirely accurate IMO. You're confusing bloody lunatic thugs who use religion as an excuse with canny politicians who use religion as an excuse ;)

somequixotic

@Bob I'm setting up an environment for us to play around with for SU-related things or RA-related things

Bob

@somequixotic :D

Psycogeek

@JourneymanGeek Thats what i been trying to say :-)

Journeyman Geek

12:46 AM

The Arab-Isreali proxy war is a way for weaker arab countries to deflect internal pressures outwards.

barlop

@JourneymanGeek was Mohammed a lunatic thug using religion as an excuse?

Bob

@JourneymanGeek Plenty of, say, Christians who use similar excuses.

Journeyman Geek

@barlop: I could tell you, but someone would have to kill me.

Bob

Incidentally, some of those who don't follow any particular religion can and will do the same, just with non-religious excuses.

somequixotic

@Bob ideas I'm working on: file hosting; experimentation with Linux sysadmin (only for very trusted users); a Mediawiki instance for SU (or for RA?); and a SO-ChatBot

barlop

12:47 AM

@JourneymanGeek by dictate of mohammed

Bob

@barlop Quite a lot of the Christian bible is rather violent.

Journeyman Geek

@barlop: dosen't necessarily have to be so though

A lot of islamic militancy is based off a selective, or non existant understanding of their scriptures

barlop

@Bob the verses of a scriptural text exist within a religious ideology. So the new testament overriding the old testament, in the case of christianity. It makes those violent verses not very relevant as teachings.

Bob

@barlop And just how many of those who try to justify homophobia use the old testament?

Anyone can pull shit out of any text to attempt to justify their actions.

barlop

@Bob well, that teaching probably carried on into the new testament

@Bob in theory, yes anbody can pull shit out of any text.. But in practice they do it following rules.

There are reasons why Christians don't use war verses to cause them to go to war.

Or why Religious Jews don't stone people to death.

they don't pull verses out to justify it. 'cos the religion has rules, a paradigm.

Christians might see Homosexuality in a negative way, but they don't KILL the homosexual like the old testament says to

That is because they all accept the New testament does away with that.

It is much easier to use Islam to justify violence

Psycogeek

12:55 AM

@barlop till you get to the revelations, and destroy the whole world, Hey that worked :-)

Bob

@somequixotic Planning to run the bot on Node.js?

Eh. Gotta go buy a car battery :\

barlop

@Psycogeek And christians don't go out there fighting to bring those prophecies about. You know Bill Maher interviewed Netanyahu and said "You know they're waiting for jesus to come and kill you all". Netanyahu said "We'll worry about that when it happens". And that it matters what people do.

somequixotic

@Bob was hoping to run it on PhantomJS

barlop

i'd add that personal preference plays a role there too.

Psycogeek

@barlop there are layers of apoctolyptic nutcases out there, all preping up for some self prophesied activity. and they all got guns, not stones :-)

Again, they dont tend to the religion so much, but mabey some nutcase spouting it.

Bob

1:01 AM

@somequixotic Ooh, interesting

Psycogeek

And you know when the preppers are all going to go ape,, when someone messes with their Territory.

somequixotic

@Bob I have some Java code targeting the RemoteWebDriver interface of Selenium that drives the login procedure and gets a user into chat logged in, and the bot is supposed to take over from there by injecting the bot's JS code into the browser, but when using the GhostDriver (PhantomJS driver for Selenium), it breaks, because SO-ChatBot uses EcmaScript 5 features that aren't available in the ancient V8 supported by PhantomJS.

I even tried a bunch of EcmaScript 5 shims, but apparently there's one shim that's just downright impossible to create, for the "Blob" object in EcmaScript 5, and the V8 version in PhantomJS doesn't support it. it's so frustrating

the code I wrote against RemoteWebDriver could work with pretty much any WebDriver, with slight modifications, but a few things about it make it specific to PhantomJS right now (just about 5% of the code)

I may have to use the built-in Firefox RemoteWebDriver and run Firefox in an X11 session on the server -_-

barlop

Is there anything in computers that is technical and more boring to learn , than a powerful text editor?

Journeyman Geek

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