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2:56 AM
@JimG. I see 4 deleted questions in your account. One you deleted yourself, one was deleted automatically (rejected migration from SO), and the other two were deleted by moderators in 2011.
 
user20683
I took a look through the answers a bit, most seem to have been deleted some time ago.
 
3:40 AM
These type of questions are banned from stackexchage so asking here.
Things that I know:-
--Know OOP PHP haven't implemented alot though but know the syntax and concepts well..
--Have Created CRUD apps multiple times using PDO and prepared statement in whole project.
--Created a user login and register system (not full fledged) and have done authentication and authorization on pages with Logout functionality (i.e Understand session quite well) .
--Have done simple validation.
--Have done some encryption using old insecure MD5,SHA1 and modern crypt() function.
 
user41796
@Shashi - learn C#. greater marketability; greater likelihood of longevity.
 
user41796
@ mods - how do we handle crap answers that spark a comment debate? programmers.stackexchange.com/a/63544/53019
 
@Shashi My personal opinion is that it's better to learn a new language than a new framework. It exposes you to different ways of thinking and different concepts.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 @mods doesn't do anything
 
user20683
@Shashi learn C#, if not on Windows or have grudge therein, check out the Mono Project
 
user41796
3:51 AM
@WorldEngineer I know. But I figured you or Yannis would see it.
 
user20683
Also DRY
 
user20683
or DRM
 
user20683
don't repeat myself
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - was about to say "mods do nothing" but you pulled your comment. :-(
 
@WorldEngineer I don't have any problems with Windows :) , I am living in country where you will rarely see MACs (ya they are getting popular but that is another story)
@GlenH7 @Brant Thanks for you reply was wondering if this knowledge is enough to hold my PHP quest ?
 
user41796
3:52 AM
@Shashi huh? Just pick. Learn more PHP if you'd like. Or pick C# and go there. Both have value; both are marketable. C# has a lot more wrapped around it.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - do user names come through on custom mod flags, or are they anonymous?
 
user20683
@GlenH7 they show up
 
user41796
@Shashi - if you're worried about local employment, the best thing you can do is find out what the local software shops are using. C# is defacto anymore for windows programming. PHP may have solid value for your region too.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer Thanks. I'm willing to clean up the comments in the deleted ADHD question before any locks are applied if that makes it easier on the mods. ie. I'll read them and flag the ones that need to be nuked.
 
user41796
was going to offer that in the flag but didn't know if it was easier for whichever mod to just handle it and if my name would come through or not.
 
user20683
3:57 AM
@GlenH7 let me deal with this. This thing is a mess from the dark ages.
 
@GlenH7 That is the real problem which is leading to my confusion, there is equal market for both in India getting job in .net is little bit harder that PHP though.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer agreed! I'm offering to help as I have a soft spot for that issue
 
user41796
I'd like to see the lock as I think there's value. But some of the comments leave me feeling ... angry.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 locked
 
user20683
another artifact from the dawn of the site
 
4:00 AM
Thanks guys , Made up my mind will be looking at C# for a while then decide.
 
user41796
@Shashi dabble in C# for a bit and then pick between the two based upon what you like more. There's equivalent opportunity with either language within your country - so pick what you like.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer gracias - and also take a look at the one referenced in JeffO's comment from the Q you just locked
 
user20683
@GlenH7 okay, this is gonna have to be a longer term project. Not something I try at midnight
 
user41796
The "Any tips" question is interesting and potentially has historical value due to the experiences presented. The currently deleted "Programming with..." is the one with a lot of historical value. There's some constructive answers in there
 
user41796
oh, wait, there's a troll! :-) I wouldn't know anything about walking away from the keyboard when tired.
 
user41796
4:03 AM
Thanks for looking into those, and ping me if I can help with them.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 It's more a question of cleaning up the crap. I might go ahead and merge
 
user20683
it's hard to say
 
user41796
agreed. "Any tips" could rightfully be closed as dupe of "Programming with". Or the merge may make it all look a lot better. Sleep on it. That's my advice. :-)
 
user20683
@GlenH7 at the moment, I'm gonna go reinstall Xamarin Studio
 
user20683
because it won't start
 
user41796
4:07 AM
The joys of software
 
user20683
@GlenH7 I've seen worse
 
user20683
at least IDLE is stable now
 
user20683
it was crashing every time I copied anything
 
user41796
For some reason, I was thinking back upon when I found a bug within VMWare ESX. It ended up being a known bug, but it was nasty nonetheless. Apparently, there was a problem with their code to migrate across servers in a cluster.
 
user41796
Many, many things pale in comparison to that experience.
 
user20683
4:10 AM
@GlenH7 I still remember spending 40+ hours (stopped counting at that point) trying to get my iOS final lab to work properly
 
user20683
was supposed to be a scrolling map where you tapped to get more info
 
user20683
I got it to scroll really well but it stole my taps
 
user20683
never did figure out how to fix it
 
user41796
ah, you must have run into one of their patents and their new enforcement mechanisms.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 this was 2 years ago
 
user20683
4:12 AM
IDLE was crashing because TCL was out of date
 
user41796
dependency hell can be fun that way
 
user20683
@GlenH7 yeah...
 
user20683
my Mac is so old that most of the Mac specific dev stuff doesn't really work anymore
 
user20683
no iOS or whatever for me
 
user41796
did you put an SSD in there?
 
user20683
4:14 AM
@GlenH7 I'd need to have a new chipset
 
user41796
IIRC, it's maxed on RAM, right?
 
user20683
ram is maxed for this model yes
 
user20683
it's a 2007 model
 
user20683
I could do an SSD but meh
 
user41796
Mine is an 08, and I was able to put in an SSD
 
user41796
4:15 AM
it makes an amazing difference
 
user41796
seriously; it's worth the money to do so.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 when I get a real job, I'll be upgrading anyway
 
user41796
I'm running Mountain Lion, and my 08 MBP is more responsive than my Dell i5 with Win7 at work
 
user20683
get an SSD at that point
 
user41796
fair 'nuff. I went with it around EOY as a way to extend its usable life. I've been very happy with that decision
 
user41796
4:17 AM
there are some games you can play with the configuration to allow you to get away with a smaller SSD too
 
user41796
move a lot of stuff to an external drive, and you should be able to comfortably fit with a 128GB SSD
 
user20683
@GlenH7 my big problem is that mine isn't eligible for Mountain Lion
 
user41796
CPU is simply too slow then, or is it an old RISC model?
 
user41796
can't remember when they cut over completely to intel chips
 
user20683
@GlenH7 no idea
 
user20683
4:21 AM
it's Intel
 
user20683
but it's old
 
user41796
that could be the issue then
 
user41796
minecraft makes my computer sweat. Although that's not fair since it's written in java and it's a bit of a pig
 
user41796
I'm dropping off for the evening. Good luck with your reinstall.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 night
 
5:11 AM
@AdamRackis I guess I should have answered something, and I had something to say in my mind. But your note wrt Programmers "It's not a site I really care about"" made me feel it won't make sense — gnat 48 secs ago
 
@GlenH7 Re your last flag: The question was autodeleted (rejected migration). Not sure if that was supposed to happen, I think it's a similar snafu to this one: Why the top question was removed? - Anyway, undeleted, cleared migration history, closed (for some reason clearing the migration history also opens questions) and historically locked.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:26 AM
wow, 30 answers ought to be enough for anybody is implemented at last! :) — gnat 1 min ago
 
 
5 hours later…
11:30 AM
@gnat I'm pretty sure it's not. I'm sure what is planned is a fix for the Android app bug that is only limiting answers to 30.
 
user41796
11:40 AM
@YannisRizos - thanks, I appreciate it. The snafu makes sense - couldn't see why Community would have gone and done that otherwise. Maybe we should be Community in the penalty box and take away its mod powers for a bit. Just to teach it a lesson.
 
11:53 AM
@ThomasOwens that's a pity to hear :)
for a moment, it made me think my dream came true
 
12:11 PM
Things that sound really sweet, but I have no idea what to do with include MQTT, UDT, protobuf, Apache Thrift, and Esper.
 
12:33 PM
@ThomasOwens protobuf is awesome anytime you want to do serialization or IPC
Now you know
 
@JimmyHoffa I don't have anything to serialize or any reason to do IPC at the moment, though. Next time I do, I'll probably bust out protobuf for the hell of it.
 
user20683
12:53 PM
@GlenH7 It turns out that I'd have to upgrade my version of OSX to run Xamarin Studio without crashing. Why it didn't crash the first time through is a mystery.
 
user41796
1:06 PM
@JimmyHoffa We started integrating protobuf recently too. very impressed with the results on some of our heaviest services.
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer because it knew how badly you wanted it to run? and it's just that awesome of software that it tried its best for you.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 It's gonna be called "I have a windows 8 vm" later today.
 
user41796
It's disturbing the things we'll do in pursuit of our craft.
 
@GlenH7 We do a lot of real time and near real-time work, with response times measured in fractions of a second. From a system architect: "Protobuf was fucking fast."
 
user41796
That's a good datapoint as we're on the opposite side. Some of our services are pushing back mutli-MB responses. Lag time was on the order of minutes before. I don't know our "new" benchmark for those, but the difference was astounding
 
2:06 PM
@GlenH7 Yeah, I wrote my own protobuf-like implementation at one point just because I was working for a company that didn't allow any open-source code due to licensing (would take as many months to get anything through legal as writing it yourself, and the legal route still has a high likelihood of being declined, incidentally I wrote my own mini-google-analytics for the same reason)
profiling differences, protobuf is phenomenal
and easy as hell to use
@ThomasOwens the protocol itself crams everything into the smallest bitwise possible with indicaters like 2,4,4 which would be 1 byte representing the number 2 for position on the object, one byte representing 4 for the bytelength when deserialized, and then one byte representing the value, the leading zeros having been truncated so the value 1 is represented in one bit, but expanded to 4 byte deserialized
but then the really amazing part is how it works underneath (in the .NET version anyways) they do an analysis of the object the first time you serialize it through reflection, based on that reflection it writes actual IL to a dictionary for the type you gave it where that IL knows how to serialize and deserialize that object; so after the first time you serialize it you have the perf of a hand-coded serializer, no more reflection happens again
 
user55340
@gnat for what its worth, the close queue right now is at 14 (that I can see). There have been 93 reviews so far today, and 4 people have done 80 of them.
 
@MichaelT 23
I'm staring at this review audit, but I really want to close vote it... guess I should do it outside the queue
0
Q: Is this a good measure of PHP script usage of the system?

user1620696I've been trying to see a way to get a measure of how much a PHP script costs of memory to the server. Well, I've found some solutions out there that requires some software to make tests and even require to install something on the server. Those solutions are not what I'm looking for, as I just w...

I just want to migrate it to SO
or maybe CR?
nevermind, it's actually fine
I just needed to read it closer
@MichaelT you just got 10 rep on SO with the 5th migration vote I just punched in
 
user55340
2:27 PM
@JimmyHoffa Its actually a bit more, since it was accepted... (and I lost rep here...)
 
@gnat you tracked down all of the cyclomatic complexity questions and dupe chained them didn't you?
I've had like 3 of them with dupe closure in my walk through the queue..
> Thank you for reviewing 20 Close Votes today; come back in 9 hours to continue reviewing.
@MichaelT happy now? Will you quit harping on about it now? :P
(I'm still unlikely to do it again tomorrow...it's just so boring....)
 
2:43 PM
@gnat is this going to hit collider? It looks like the perfect me-too answer type question
3
Q: Do we set the bar too high by requiring that code tests not suffer from buffer overflow?

briceWe are currently recruiting for a Junior Developer position working mainly in C on Linux. As part of the process, we require candidates to complete a code test at their leisure in C. So far we have rejected two candidates on the basis that their code, although readable and in one case rather id...

3 answers in a half hour with the potential for everybody to spew some opinionated garbage. Should I just close vote as opinion based?
See too little of the shark these days around here it seems
 
@JimmyHoffa opinion based sounds like it (need some time to look deeper to make my mind for voting). As for hitting collider, hard to tell, title a bit too long
 
@gnat Good point, so if I shorten the title will I be appropriately repwhoring?
 
@JimmyHoffa that's sort of an art to attract / distract hotness lemmings, I can't predict here :)
@JimmyHoffa not all cyclomatic, only arrowhead "subset" of these and even not not all of arrowhead. I tried thorough discovery for dupes in March-April, turned out too tedious, nowadays I stop as soon as I feel tired...
...that usually happens at 2nd or 3rd dupe found
dupes are much harder to work with than the rest of closures
18
Q: Strongly separate duplicates from "the rest" in close votes review queue

gnatUpdate: I wish I could downvote decline justification twice. "You can already filter down by close reason." Oh really , Do you see many reviewers using filter? Do you see Steward badges awarded for Close Votes as frequently as these would be to obtain with appropriately filtered review queue? ...

 
3:05 PM
woo 2 answers this morning, 10k here I come...yeah...2 answers is totally going to get me to 10k...
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa btw, it was just you. Everyone else who was a junior has been perfect. Its the hiring of seniors that I worry about.
 
@JimmyHoffa with all due respect, it really feels opinion based
> Are we setting the bar too high? What is the expected capability of graduate/Junior engineers?
 
user55340
(once dealt with a $150/h consultant who couldn't figure out how to change Math.pow(10,foo) / Math.pow(10,bar) into Math.pow(10,foo - bar) when shown how to do it.)
 
not to mention that "graduate/Junior" widens it too broad
 
@gnat heh I agree, I just wanted to get some verification from others before I close vote
 
3:11 PM
we're not "help us hire" service. Just questions and answers
 
I'm officially still a 'Junior Software Engineer' with a whole 2 years of experience! My background is in neither CS or SW Engineering (It's in Physics). I would not willingly hand in code that segfaults on any input, now, or when I was recruited. — brice 2 mins ago
correction, you would not knowingly hand in code that segfaults on any input. If you just claimed you never write bugs then sorry to bother you John Carmack. — Jimmy Hoffa 38 secs ago
Now I don't even feel bad about close voting it heh
@gnat That's a great point
 
this review audit is funny, because it "borrowed" my edit summary programmers.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/35696 At first I couldn't figure how comes that my own edit transferred into suggestion and made it to my own review :)
 
Oh you mean this part?
> technical debt -> technical debt
It just picked that as a comment from a random other edit?
...I'm now pondering if John Carmack does ever write bugs... nah, he's the master of the universe; creator of my entire adolescent universe- he's perfect. Surely.
 
user55340
3:27 PM
@gnat its not that I worry that the queue isn't clearing fast enough, but rather that this is an opportunity for people to be more engaged with the site. I am sad to see people complain about the same five people closing when they have the opportunity to enter the review queue themselves and mark "leave open" to help guide it to a more moderate way (given the assumption that we are too likely to close).
 
@JimmyHoffa on a further thought, too broad might be even better fit. Combination "junior + technical skills" almost always guarantees that, their technical skills may differ wildly. The way to distinguish lies out there...
 
It occurs to me you could do a counting sort on strings with atoi, it just totally sucks because you have to use the summation of atoi as your index/max err actually summation wouldn't even work, you need to use multiplication, so any string of significant length would result in an enormous array
 
144
A: How can I overcome "years of experience" requirements when applying to positions?

Jarrod RobersonIn your question you say they ask for 3 - 7 years of experience Then you go on and on about skill, and how much better you are than more experience members of your current peers. 5+ years in the industry would tell you from experience that this is not logically a valid argument. And it wou...

@JimmyHoffa right, summary picked from other edit, and the style and contents is mine technical debt -> [technical debt](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_debt)
@MichaelT yeah I figured that. And it feels we're sort of doomed here, just by the nature of review system
> When queue is small, one can expect only small, dedicated group of users doing reviews regularly. From this perspective, perception of most closures done by that small group is unavoidable I'm afraid.
the best we can hope is to get maybe 10 regular-closers instead of 5
dedicated group, to operate on low queue, can't be large by definition
and I think (I hope) Programmers queue will be mostly low
 
user55340
Hmm.. verging into MSO feature request. Maybe if there was a "How many reviews you can do" counter next to the review? Mine would be 0 at the moment (no available close reviews, all other queues at 0). The thing is to notify people there are things that can be done.
2
 
@MichaelT I'm for it.
 
3:46 PM
@MichaelT that'd be a certain improvement, but not very likely to happen in near future. In my answer at meta, words "different story" are linkified. Hover on that link and take a look at tooltip :)
> Note above dynamics might in turn change if queue would grow to daunting size, but that would be a different story.
 
4:01 PM
90 rep from soon-to-be-closed question that wasn't very good, and no rep from decent perfectly on-topic quality P.SE question I answered this morning.
How disappointing.
 
Downvotes on meta are sometimes used to indicate that you didn't bend out of shape to please readers. In your case, this seems to be just the case (my guess is some simply dislike word karma). Nothing in your post deserves dovnvote, even if it eventually will get status-declined. It's original, interesting, well intentioned and not actively harmful. A good read... of course for those who bother to readgnat 56 secs ago
@JimmyHoffa that's why I abstain of answering when I sense closure. Even when I feel an urge to say something "answer-like", I post it to comments. OTOH, I find nothing wrong when others answer, as long as they provide good content. Stack Exchange is for 1) Google to find answers 2) answerers to have fun and only 3) askers to get what they want. 2nd place, right after Google, isn't that bad...
7
A: Summer of Love and questions that the FAQ says should not be asked

gnatAskers yield As a prolific answerer, you better keep in mind that your satisfaction with questions quality is considered more important than that of the asker. For the official statement on above, refer to Stack Exchange blog, Optimizing For Pearls, Not Sand: ...we’re determined to keep que...

 
@gnat Yeah, that prioritization bit there took me a long time to realize
This took me less time to realize...
The thing you're missing is that "SO is a site for specific programming questions" and Programmers is too. We are not for subjective questions or opinionated questions any more than SO, think of Programmers as being exactly like SO in guidelines, the only difference is the topics: SO topics should be questions with some code, Programmers topics should be questions with programming concepts. Things like known patterns, design approaches, diagrams, the architectural questions which SO isn't for. Regarding guidelines, ours are just as strict as SO. — Jimmy Hoffa 17 mins ago
I don't know why people manage to not figure that out, it's pretty plain to see in all the closed questions
and they are told as much with the closure messages and even directly on meta, but it still doesn't sink in
 
user55340
4:17 PM
It is slightly more frustrating when one pokes at the other questions...
 
user55340
1
Q: Why was my question on file comparison tools closed?

ProfessionalAmateurI recently asked a question and it was closed and I cannot go back to view the answers in it. Just curious as to why it was closed, it was on topic. question

 
user55340
Which is about a question (deleted) programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/160205/… - "File comparison tool that will allow me to manually remap lines between two files when comparing? [closed]"
 
@MichaelT Yeah, this guy is also suffering from lacking recognition that the site isn't here for the questioners, the way he talks about "Oh I thought it might be closed but figured it didn't hurt anybody and I'd get a good answer anyway!"
Also it's commonly unrecognized that this site is not really here for the people asking questions, this site is here to "to build a library of detailed answers to every question about software development." - sound like another site? Wikipedia for instance? Do you think wikipedia exists for the participants who create topics and write info in them? No, it exists to provide info to people who google for info. Similarly SE's priority across all of SE is to have a library of information that the internet community can google and find. This means timeless, quality content is a necessity. — Jimmy Hoffa 15 secs ago
 
recommended reading: Optimizing For Pearls, Not Sand "We feel that the world is awash in questions, but not answers. Answers are the real unit of work in any Q&A system. Therefore, the only logical thing to do is to maximize the happiness and enjoyment of answerers. If this means aggressively downvoting or closing unworthy and uninteresting questions, so be it. Without a community of people willing to answer questions, it really doesn’t matter if there are questions at all, does it?" — gnat 17 secs ago
"Do we set the bar too high..." reached top page of colider (#4 now) and lemmings began coming in. What? Meh
0
A: Do we set the bar too high by requiring that code tests not suffer from buffer overflow?

LawtonfogleAs others mentioned, junior positions may have little experience with C. I personally only briefly was taught about buffer overflows in C and even if I could watch out for them, it is likely I would still introduce some (especially if given an assignment that lends itself to creating buffer over...

it's like watching train wreck in slow motion isn't it
of course as othershavementioned, I sense that entree by a mile
BTDT

hotness formula damage case study - "+25, +14, -1, -1, -1"

May 28 at 15:47, 5 hours 40 minutes total – 54 messages, 5 users, 4 stars

Bookmarked May 29 at 7:26 by gnat

 
4:33 PM
@gnat Knew it, the content is pure lemming-lover
Just needs a couple more close votes
 
user55340
4:46 PM
0
A: What is programmers.stackexchange.com for?

MichaelTStack exchange is built on the premise of being the go to place for getting the answer to a problem. One place to get one answer. There are several design decisions in the core of the site that attempt to push the users of the site in that way. Stack exchange was also built as a rejection of f...

 
@JimmyHoffa one day, I'll post that freakin' feature request at MSO, just to see how it flies. And to stop Shog from "re-presenting" it as gnat wants to delete hot list. Got the title...
In hotness formula, discard answers when voting evidence indicates against their popularity
...got the key points. Like, 1) let formula work in accordance with specification (accepted answers were excluded as "not a good data point for... quality", "one assumes... there will be a lot more voting on the answers"). Gee every time I re-read this "specification, it strikes me how far is the formula from it....
...I don't blame initial designers, because in 2008-2009 these misses didn't matter (for collider audience was too small to expose this issue, but since 2011, there was plenty time and evidence to find out about it)...
...2) let time decay and community do their job by timely slipping questions from top 1-2 pages at collider...
...3) The last, but not the least, stop misguiding thousands site users who think "cool" (high score) question is one filled with tens of meh answers (and who spread acquired attitude further into other questions), roll the dice fairly to show them less brain-damaging content to learn from
 
@gnat Thinking about this formula, it occurs to me I could totally abuse it by just writing all my answers in two parters to questions, more answers more hotness more choices for people to gimme the reps
 
@JimmyHoffa something like that, you opnly need to take care of questions not being closeable. Formula bug is quite easy to fix by closing the question, it's only good ones that suffer (or as you plan, benefit)
:)
 
Advanced Repwhoring 622 class in session
(I have no idea what those numbers next to classes go up to or mean)
 
user55340
Ask a question that hits a popular topic that is fuzzy enough to get lots of people wanting to add their bit, and is hard enough to not get 5 close votes.
 
4:58 PM
sort of. BTW I suspect substantial amount of _lemmings- currently do that intentionally / instinctively. They feel protected from DVs from regulars by mindless upvoting at the top of collider, and they feel it's an easy rep there
question "hotness" at 78 (about half fake I think), #3 at collider, second meh answer, first pair of pure sympathy upvotes, business as usual. Yet another case study. Even good answers score resembles prior one 26, 15. Oh well
> About Me: - Degree in Physics with almost no formal training. - 2 Years work experience. So I know what the learning process is all about. - Start software developer. I have done very demanding work, and seen all different skill levels from various individuals. Many of them can't handle a lot of what i do.
but of course, aboutme how important
Answers quality in hot questions says happen once or twice a week on average - but that counts only questions that stay open. If we include closed ones, that get the same firestorm, just aborted halfway, it can happen 2-3x more frequently
we're pretty strong community to handle that aren't we. At SO in comparison, they started crying and screaming, calling for mods and refunding bounties at single croissant
@gnat: Yes, I saw that you posted the same comment below the question. One of the other SO mods had to lock the question again because of all the attention it is getting. The thing would die gracefully if we just all ignored it. If you want to talk about the collider, ask a new question. — Robert Harvey Jul 30 at 15:56
> and I'll always be crying over you
score 89 (half fake), #2 at collider, answers score at low end totally unrelated to quality, business as usual
46 mins ago, by gnat
it's like watching train wreck in slow motion isn't it
what does this teach users looking at the questions through top pages of collider? (300+ of them as of now - all artificaially attracted by collider, reddit would bring much more)
> So comes next and next and next round of garbage answers, bumping the question, bringing mindless upvotes, over and over and over again.
> Hotness algorithm calculates this as genuine popularity, keeps it accordingly high at collider, bringing more visitors that are breaking things further and so on and so on. Note it's not limited to newcomers only, everyone is invited to the party. Community regulars can clearly see that usual quality norms are broken in favor of populist garbage and that they are free to follow the New Order just like anyone else.
> That's how fake popularity makes shit stick to the ceiling and helps to keep it there.
> recipe for successful populist garbage:
> The rules are classical: know your audience. In hot question, your audience will be many (thousands) community newcomers, unfamiliar with norms, plus several site regulars. Newcomers are your sheep, these will bring you wool and milk (upvotes and supportive comments). Regulars are your dogs, you need to make sure they can't bite you too hard (can't flag / 20Kers won't vote-to-delete your answer).
> For the "sheep", you need a populist slogan, a pitch, a catch phrase that will trigger sufficient support ("git is fantastic" is a good bet for programmers communities). For the "dogs", you need basic handwaving skills - just enough blah blah to make sure answer isn't flaggable plus make it read sufficiently smoothly to avoid triggering vote-to-delete in case if 20Ker skims through it.
> ...Just... go for it. Have some fun, blow it up. Let that devil out
 
5:36 PM
@gnat Now I want to ask and answer hotness questions for ultimate-repwhore
 
@JimmyHoffa go for it!!!
just not at SO
they'll cry while we laugh
they lock while we laugh
they're too fragile for that
They won't let you fall apart
 
5:58 PM
grumble I got more rep for
17
A: Do we set the bar too high by requiring that code tests not suffer from buffer overflow?

Jimmy HoffaI think the junior qualifier is what makes all the difference here. Juniors shouldn't be tested for competence, they should be tested for learning ability, curiosity, passion, ethic, and definitely humility. The assumption with a junior should be that they are not competent, it's your job as the ...

than for
12
A: How to create better OO code in a relational database driven application where the database is poorly designed

Jimmy HoffaObject orientation is valuable specifically because these types of scenarios arise, and it gives you tools to reasonably design abstractions that allow you to encapsulate complexity. The real question here is, where do you encapsulate that complexity? So let me step back a moment and speak to w...

Oh well, the former rep will fade away at some point in the future when the question is closed and deleted, the latter will live on in infamy
 
user55340
@JimmyHoffa it would take a specific act to delete it, and I'm not sure it meets that criteria...
 
user20683
6:33 PM
afternoon
 
user20683
Good News: I have a Scotch Ale
 
user20683
Bad News: I have a Scotch Ale
 
Good News: I'm all moved into my new house as of last weekend through this week.
Bad News: I'm sore everywhere and have months-in-advance-planned whitewater rafting tomorrow. That turned out to be poor timing.
@WorldEngineer You're going to be creating sock puppets to ask strange questions later aren't you?
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa Tea Tree ointment on every muscle or Bengay if you want to smell like an old person.
 
"If I plugged the power supply into itself, would I be able to program normal code and it be executed recursively?"
 
user20683
6:41 PM
@JimmyHoffa What happens if I put this comonad inside this monad? How do I do this in Assembly language only?
 
user20683
for a Lisp Machine
 
"If a computer stares into a mirror, does it see it's own soul?" at some point you're going to have some really weird questions just because you have a religious studies and cs degree in the era of the creation of robots
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa I once wrote a philosophy paper on how to prove if Cartesian Dualism is real or not using robots. Does that count?
 
@ProfessionalAmateur not true, i forgot to mention there is one facility SE offers for answering any and all subjective questions you might have. Hop on The Whiteboard and chat with folks who poke around in Programmers.SE anytime; we enjoy discussing this stuff. — Jimmy Hoffa 10 secs ago
@WorldEngineer This statement creates more questions than it answers, luckily I know well enough not to ask any of them.
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa :)
 
user20683
6:49 PM
Then I went into CS, where I discovered that proving Cartesian Products is trivially easy using robots.
 
@WorldEngineer I know, robots are way better at putting products in carts, I think that's how most warehouses work these days, apparently philosophers missed the memo.
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa Philosophers are too drunk to read memos
 
@WorldEngineer Just reminded me of a bar in downtown pittsburgh called The Library
@MichaelT fewer larger commits? ick ick! Burn! really?? Why! This falls under the same problem as fewer but larger methods: Going back to them you have a lot more to pick through if changes need to be made (to the commit or method), and you're more likely to put unrelated stuff together further confusing the next reader (of the commit or method).
you should have more smaller commits; reduces integration pains by making it more frequent and in smaller sections
however..
This is a common misnomer: Smaller commits will have no discernible affect on the quality of your source in the event of a zombie apocalypse. — Jimmy Hoffa 35 secs ago
@WorldEngineer ...instead, they read...memes?
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa on occasion
 
user20683
They are, by and large, gigantic nerds.
 
7:02 PM
ooo next collider bananza, if I didn't already get my 200 rep for the day off the other one I'd get an answer in here to appease my 10k-lust
2
Q: How big should a single commit be?

knight666A discussion has come up at work and I want to get the opinion of other programmers. During my time in college, we only used SVN for sourcecontrol. Everybody commits to the same server and all changes are pulled to all machines. In this system, it's easy when you should push your changes: when y...

 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa They do tend toward the implementation side of things after a while. Some are okay. I'm not sure if it's that Philosophy makes you prone to implementation or if someone who is into implementing is drawn to Philosophy. I think it has to do with a desire to always be "right".
 
@WorldEngineer wait wait, you say that like they aren't always right, it's been made very clear to me, they in fact are, and always :)
"implementation" side of things ? Huh?
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa implement is a synonym for something
 
user20683
:)
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - what's the best way to flag an editor that's plagiarizing content and is at the point of needing a mod to tell them to stop?
 
user41796
7:06 PM
sorry to interrupt what was likely a far more interesting conversation
 
user20683
@GlenH7 I forget, just flag them and I'll go get my flamethrower.
 
user41796
That's the problem, I'm not seeing a flag available in the review queue. But I'm also attempting to preserve their privacy
 
@GlenH7 The appropriate flagging technique for this problem is to edit each one of those posts with plagiarism, and replace the plagiarism with "I'M A BIG LIAR WHO DOESN'T HAVE ANY IDEAS OF HIS OWN, BLA BLA BLA!"
 
user41796
There. Now only mods and room owners know
 
user41796
Look over the suggested edit history queue and you'll see quite a few from that user
 
7:09 PM
@GlenH7 oh rly? I find that hard to believe. The content has seemed quite good.
 
user41796
all but one have been copy / paste from Wikipedia. I left him a comment to provide attribution, but he's still at it
 
user20683
@GlenH7 A: don't do that. B: Flag the answers you think are plagiarized.
 
user20683
I need evidence.
 
user41796
not answers; they're suggested edits to tag qikis
 
user41796
I should have made that more clear
 
7:11 PM
@WorldEngineer Do you have a "destroy this message" chat ability so room owners also can't see something? if not they should make that.
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa I can purge the history
 
@WorldEngineer Of the room?
That would stink
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa message
 
user20683
each message
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - do you need me to call out specific instances?
 
user55340
7:14 PM
@JimmyHoffa Yes, smaller commits are better. But if the lead wants big commits, ok... the thing is, with git there is an answer to that.
 
@MichaelT Oh suggesting gated because he's using mercurial? that makes sense.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 yes
 
user20683
@GlenH7 not here though
 
user20683
hang on
 
user41796
thanks - that's what I was about to ask
 
7:16 PM
(Do we care about putting wikipedia copy/pastes into tag wikis? I would think that would be a good thing, no?)
 
user20683
@GlenH7 nevermind, I see the problem
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa actually we do
 
user41796
ok
 
@WorldEngineer what if it's attributed?
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa then it's fine
 
user41796
7:16 PM
@JimmyHoffa - not our content. It must be attributed at a minimum
 
user20683
it's because of how the CC license works
 
Right
Dude probably means to help out then, just doesn't realize he needs to attribute it (I wouldn't have thought I needed to)
 
user20683
aye
 
user20683
.@jbocc04 Our service centers have an alarming turnover rate; your representative may have simply died before writing your case down.
 
on second thought, ban him, he has more rep than me (about 46 points)
@WorldEngineer ...hah...what?
 
user41796
7:19 PM
Looking back in the queue, this has been going on for a bit with that user.
 
I should fill out some tag wikis
I think I did fill out one...
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa Parody account
 
@WorldEngineer ahh there it is, airl*a*nes, was guessing they had been hacked
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - for the ones that "got through" is the correct thing to go in and add an attribution? It's only 2 or 3 tags that cleared
 
user20683
@GlenH7 yeah
 
user41796
7:21 PM
k, I'll go do those then
 
user20683
@GlenH7 The SO language tag wikis are excellent
 
user41796
k, if there's an overlap in the tags, then I'll steal from borrow from there.
 
7:33 PM
Every now and then I follow links to find myself at that don't-parse-html-with-regexp answer, and every time I just have to relish it for a while. That is truly awe inspiring.
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa There's a discontinued shirt that some high rep SO users got with that on it.
 
@WorldEngineer SE needs a store now, I would buy that
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa
 
user20683
89
Q: What happened to the Stack Exchange Store?

Michael PryorThere used to be a place where you could buy Stack Exchange branded gear, what happened to it?

 
score 140, top of collider, two more meh answers, latest one would barely qualify as a comment in a normal question. Business as usual...
> Note it's not limited to newcomers only, everyone is invited to the party. Community regulars can clearly see that usual quality norms are broken in favor of populist garbage and that they are free to follow the New Order just like anyone else.
0
A: Do we set the bar too high by requiring that code tests not suffer from buffer overflow?

Loren PechtelSomething that I don't see being addressed here: Unless I'm misunderstanding you, you're talking about a buffer overflow IN THE TEST CODE. That's a very different issue than a buffer overflow in the code being tested.

how insightful bar too high. Bar too. Foo bar
 
7:47 PM
@WorldEngineer Holy crap this right here is awesome:
> CFO Fog Creek Software Inc. CFO Stackoverflow.com LLC
That's the CFO ?? Answering development questions?
They literally don't let anyone work there who can't program
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa bear in mind that Joel and Jeff both have dev backgrounds
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa I bet they'd hire you too, given your ridiculous level of C# skill
 
@gnat I flagged this asking mods to convert to a comment because that's literally what it is
@WorldEngineer HA
Marc Gravell makes me look like I play for the peewee teams
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer - all tags that were touched have either been swapped over to SO's version or an attribution comment inserted.
 
This is a "ridiculous level of C# skill"
(apparently all the good .net devs are in the UK...)
 
user41796
7:52 PM
I've been wanting to move to the UK. Would that increase my C# .NET skillz? It's a causality, right?
 
@GlenH7 Likely, it's a small place you'd probably bump into Simon Peyton Jones every so often and end up writing Haskell on accident instead
 
user41796
if he could explain it in a way that doesn't make my head explode, I might be up for that
 
@GlenH7 he's actually very good at explaining it haskell.org/haskellwiki/Video_presentations
 
user20683
@JimmyHoffa are decorators a kind of functor?
 
@WorldEngineer not really, remember a functor is a container which can take a function that acts upon the thing in the container, and give you that new thing in the same type of container
It's similar but it doesn't really map the same because functors are types that accept functions to act on that which they contain, decorators can do that but there's by no means such a guarantee
more commonly a decorator just changes data that you hand off, due to the encapsulation of logic inside the object as opposed to the logic coming in from the outside, that kind of breaks it being a functor
:10609654 To take you seriously; there's a lot of patterns to mimic higher order functions in various ways, but I've never seen any common patterns that are based on the acceptance of a higher-order-function like a functor is
 
user41796
8:00 PM
shouldn't take me too seriously. I try not to.
 
I know, but it actually is kind of interesting question
 
user41796
part of the thing holding me back is I haven't put the effort in to understand the terminology
 
user41796
And the saw against patterns is that they reflect deficiencies within the language.
 
@GlenH7 the terminology is a huge pain, but recognize haskell has it's own vocabulary, you rarely if ever run into anything from it's lexicon in the other FP languages
 
user41796
but if FP has a consistent challenge of getting outsiders to understand the terminology correctly, it does kind of beg for a pattern to resolve the communication gap
 
user41796
8:02 PM
I think that makes my conclusion even more sound
 
@GlenH7 The problem with the communication gap isn't terminology so much as conceptual; Haskell just has a lot of stuff no other languages have. So they had to come up with a bunch of names for these things that were new, by and large they took the names from math because math had many of these concepts where no other programming languages or cultures did
 
user41796
And if there was ever a field to invite people in with their terminology, it's the Maths.
 
user41796
I can understand the need to borrow from set theory and the parallels there though
 
user41796
and props for not just making up all of their own parallel terms
 
In C# the IEnumerable<T> is a functor for instance with the select method as it's implementation, but Haskell needs it's own term "functor" for it because in Haskell the functor works on tons of things other than IEnumerable's
 
user20683
8:06 PM
@GlenH7 There's a book called "Think _____ (replace with Python usually but other versions exist), there's one for OCaml which is a somewhat gentler ML
 
if haskell's only functor was the list functor they could have done like C#, called it a list and map function and called it a day
 
user20683
Haskell lets you model entire Algebras with the type system alone
 
user20683
that right there makes it officially insane
 
user20683
also awesome but still insane
 
user41796
@WorldEngineer what publisher, do you know offhand?
 
user20683
8:07 PM
@GlenH7 Green Tea so Free
 
user20683
O'Reilly technically if you want it on a pulped tree
 
@WorldEngineer 122 pages, I might actually give it a read
 
user41796
Price is a bit steep
 
user20683
@GlenH7 yeah, those negative derivatives will get ya
 
user41796
8:09 PM
(hey, punnery on tea and steep. Didn't even intend it!)
 
user41796
I'm running away if we start talking derivatives. Next older brother is a phd in economics. I get derivatives, but they still scare me.
 
user20683
@GlenH7 Calculus
 
user20683
not evil
 
user41796
several of my former classmates would argue with you on that.
 
user41796
8:12 PM
although I kind of liked it to be honest. Especially when playing with FFTs
 
user41796
and I got used to people looking at me funny for believing in imaginary numbers
 
user20683
@GlenH7 I'll not argue politics in here. Calculus derivatives though are made of win.
 
@WorldEngineer That's awesome, I never knew
@GlenH7 FFTs; another thing OCaml is well known for.
1. FFTW

FFTW is arguably the world's fastest Fourier transform implementation and is used in many commercial applications including MATLAB as well as being freely available and prepackaged for almost all Linux distributions. The FFT routines that make up the FFTW library are C code generated by an OCaml program called genfft.
 
user20683
OCaml is used by Jane Street and some other financial firms
 
user20683
MLs in general are seeing more use in that industry.
 
8:19 PM
@WorldEngineer Yeah, all that HFT stuff has been picking up a lot of FP because they make it easier to write data analysis stuff than what imperative languages let you do
S&P Financial is I think the big one that does a good bit of Haskell
 
user20683
I know that they want the type safety+ speed
 
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